Joe Flacco benched;Dillon Gabriel named Cleveland Browns starting QB

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-01-25, 10:46 PM

This Sanders guy is something else. Fkin guy will be out of the league after this season.

Art Vandelay · 10-02-25, 12:04 AM

Shedeur in full "jackass mode" as usual...

2Sweeet · 10-02-25, 06:04 AM

He doesn't realize he's not his Daddy or P Diddy!!!!
I'll promise you Daddy told him to do that. Just go watch what Deion did to Tim McCarver. Deion was at least good at 2 sports but the Apple never falls to far from the tree.. Only way his son's plays in the NFL is when Deion is a coach in the NFL. Look out Tenn. LOL they may even pick up that star Travis Hunter to come along. Media sensations that accomplished nothing cuz the woke morons and interwebs said they are good. Plz restart your phones tablets and cpu back to 2001 Cuz U all been duped once again.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-02-25, 06:40 AM

^ ^

nash, Eli most certainly did NOT win you those Superbowls, the defense did. Eli just happened to be the QB of those teams. He will likely make the HOF because of those 2 Superbowl wins but in my mind, he was nowhere near a HOF QB. The guy was a mid to bottom tier QB for the majority of his career....and oh, his last name is Manning.

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-02-25, 07:49 AM

What about this fkin Division? Talk about teams un-ravelling.

I still think the Steelers will go on a losing streak. If the Ravens lose games w/ Jackson out, this Divsion winner won't be more than 8 or 9 wins.

pavyracer · 10-02-25, 08:30 AM

If his last name wasn't Sanders nobody would know who he was.

stevenash · 10-02-25, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

^ ^

nash, Eli most certainly did NOT win you those Superbowls, the defense did. Eli just happened to be the QB of those teams. He will likely make the HOF because of those 2 Superbowl wins but in my mind, he was nowhere near a HOF QB. The guy was a mid to bottom tier QB for the majority of his career....and oh, his last name is Manning.

Two things.

a) I'm pretty sure we've spoken about Eli several times in the past.
I, as a diehard Giaats fan to a fault, wanted Rivers in the draft. I preferred Rivers much more than Eli, and I do recall a few years ago that hissy fit Eli threw before the draft, pretty much dictating to the SD franchise, "Don't dare draft me, I won't play out there behind Doug Flutie, and Drew Brees.

b) I'm positive I told you in the past as well that if Rivers played his entire career in New York, and Eli in LA/SD, Phillip Rivers would have had a much better career as a Giant than Eli Manning as a Charger.

Elway pulled the same twenty years earlier when Elway told Irsay that if you draft me, not only won't I sign or report, I'll play minor league baseball for Steinbrenner's Yankees.

The Colts drafted Elway regardless of the warning; Elway did indeed play minor league baseball for the Yankees for a partial season, failed miserably, and returned to football.
As the late, great broadcaster Paul Harvey used to say, signing off after his segment on the air.
"And now you know the rest of the story."

I didn't like Eli's pre-draft brat routine, and I sure as shit hated Elway for pulling that stunt first two decades earlier.
I never heard a peep out of Marino when Miami drafted him. Dan wanted to stay in Pittsburgh.

My two guys, whom I always looked up to as a kid growing up in NJ, were Phil Simms and, because in the NY-NJ-CT tri-state metropolitan area, we got a heavy dose of ACC football at home, so I got to see Rivers a few times on TV often. I loved the way Rivers played QB. (I was a kid when I rooted for the Giants and LT and the rest) I wasn't a kid in 2004 when Rivers/Manning graduated.
(I thought I'd make that correction before Peavy starts breaking my stones) Of course, you know I'm poking good clean fun back at ya, bud. Truth be told, I don't mind that, guys like yourself, Unde, Opti, and several others keep me on my toes. All good.

Lastly, almost every NYG championship team relied heavily on defense,
The Bears, too, when they were having success.
In this day and age of the glorification of the NFL QB, teams are always identified first with the QB,
That's the way the mass media treats NFL teams; their identity is the starting signal called under center,
I know, and you know, Eli won SB rings mainly because of the stout NYG defensive units.
Jim McMahon never would have been the winner in Chicago that he was without that legendary defense, either.
So when I say "Eli won two rings in NY", I wasn't suggesting the Giants don't win without him; it's just how it is these days in the sports social media business, it's probably not 100 percent fair, but it's not exactly a grave misjustice either.

Here you go, Jake.

Question?
Who was the Charger receiver that caught Rivers' first NFL TD pass (Regular season, not a tricky preseason question)

Now I'm done (just for now)
I promise.
lol

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-02-25, 09:43 AM

^

It just annoys me that he will likely get in the HOF when he is not deserving. I guess he will be one of many that have gotten in recently where it is debatable whether they are deserving or not.

I have no idea who Rivers first TD pass was to...Gates seems too easy, it is probably a more obscure player. Heck, I'm trying to remember who the Chargers pass catchers were at that time. I'll guess Tomlinson on a screen pass?

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-02-25, 10:03 AM

Marino couldn't say much about the draft. He was slipping b/c his name had tarnished with a cocaine charge.

QBs were coming off the board. Danny asked his agent "Who's Ken O'Brien?"

Shula knew that Marino was too good to be available at that point in the draft. My recollection is that Shula said something like "Maybe he learned his lesson."

Put me in the camp that Marino is UNDER-rated. He set so many records (for the time). Not his fault that the RB/Defense weren't elite.

Want another all-time great player? Dan's center, Dwight Stephenson. Helped Dan a ton. Might have gone down as the best Center ever, had he not had the knee injury.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-02-25, 10:12 AM

^
Chucky, agreed that Marino is underrated in the grand scheme of things.

nickfolker23 · 10-02-25, 12:10 PM

This kid isn't Bronny James, for sure

stevenash · 10-02-25, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

^
Chucky, agreed that Marino is underrated in the grand scheme of things.

I've heard some ignorant 'so-called' football fans say Marino was a 'compiler'.
Marino had to throw early and often due to a piss poor Miami Dolphin run game.
Here's a Marino fun fact I stumbled upon a few years back while farting around with some NFL analytical databases.
I love playing with numbers; I don't even deny that I'm a geek since the beginning of time.

I had to triple-check the data because it seemed unbelievable at first glance.
Marino played exclusively for Miami from 1983 to 1999.
Except for the 1996 season, Marino's Dolphins never had a back rush for 1,000 yards in a season.
If you're a QB with an inept backfield full of nothing more than servicable (at best) running backs, for sixteen years, and the only way to move the ball with any consistency at all is via the air, that's not 'compiling', or stat padding if you will.
None of Marno's passing yardage totals were gratuitous; he had basically one choice, that being to pass early and often.

The only back to rush for 1000 yards during Marino's seventeen-year tenure was Karim (the NFL player, not the NBA player) Abdul-Jabbar.

Rivers' first TD pass of his HoF career came in the final game of the 2004 season vs. your fancy-pants KC Chiefs.
Rivers relieved starting QB Doug Flutie.

This is the receiver who hauled in the historic first TD pass.
(Marino's drive)

Quarter	Time	Down	ToGo	Location	KAN	SDG	Detail

3	0:22	1	10	SDG 23	3	17	Michael Turner up the middle for 9 yards (tackle by Greg Wesley)
4	15:00	2	1	SDG 32	3	17	Andrew Pinnock up the middle for no gain (tackle by Eric Hicks)
4	14:29	3	1	SDG 32	3	17	Andrew Pinnock right guard for 2 yards (tackle by Greg Wesley and Shaunard Harts)
4	13:52	1	10	SDG 34	3	17	Michael Turner right tackle for 2 yards (tackle by Kawika Mitchell and Eric Hicks)
4	13:07	2	8	SDG 36	3	17	Philip Rivers pass complete to Ryan Krause for 10 yards (tackle by Kawika Mitchell)
4	12:22	1	10	SDG 46	3	17	Michael Turner left tackle for -2 yards (tackle by Jared Allen)
4	11:38	2	12	SDG 44	3	17	Philip Rivers sacked for -10 yards. Philip Rivers fumbles, recovered by Philip Rivers at SDG-34
4	11:08	3	22	SDG 34	3	17	Philip Rivers pass incomplete intended for Malcom Floyd (defended by Eric Warfield)
4	10:57	4	22	SDG 34	3	17	Mike Scifres punts 39 yards
4	10:52	1	10	KAN 27	3	17	Trent Green pass complete to Tony Gonzalez for 11 yards (tackle by Matt Wilhelm)
4	10:34	1	10	KAN 38	3	17	Trent Green pass incomplete intended for Samie Parker. Penalty on Jamar Fletcher: Illegal Contact, 5 yards (no play)
4	10:27	1	10	KAN 43	3	17	Trent Green left end for 7 yards
4	9:58	2	3	SDG 50	3	17	Penalty on Kevin Sampson: Offensive Holding, 10 yards (no play)
4	9:27	2	13	KAN 40	3	17	Trent Green pass incomplete intended for Tony Gonzalez is intercepted by Adrian Dingle at KAN-40 and returned for 1 yard
4	9:22	1	10	KAN 39	3	17	Michael Turner up the middle for no gain (tackle by Scott Fujita)
4	8:44	2	10	KAN 39	3	17	Michael Turner up the middle for 26 yards (tackle by Shaunard Harts)
4	7:59	1	10	KAN 13	3	17	Andrew Pinnock left end for no gain (tackle by Jared Allen)
4	7:17	2	10	KAN 13	3	23	Philip Rivers pass complete to Malcom Floyd for 13 yards, touchdown
4				KAN 2	3	24	Nate Kaeding kicks extra point good

Attached Files

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-02-25, 01:34 PM

Hey, Nash. I hate how the analysts somehow try to EXCLUDE Marino from greatness (b/c of no SB rings). But they gladly INCLUDE Plunkett and Eli b/c of two rings.

A few retorts:
1) Marino was SETTING records. IE, his stats were great relative to his era.
2) The 1984 Niners were arguably the most complete of the Montana era. Tough team to beat.
3) I would have LOVED to see the 1985 Dolphins play versus the Bears. I've said repeatedly that the Dolphin quick WRs were the antidote to the Bear physicality. Danny's quick release could have beaten CHI (but they were upset by the Patriots due to six turnovers).

stevenash · 10-02-25, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Hey, Nash. I hate how the analysts somehow try to EXCLUDE Marino from greatness (b/c of no SB rings). But they gladly INCLUDE Plunkett and Eli b/c of two rings.

By that logic, then Ken Griffey Jr., Ernie Banks, Ralph Kiner, and Ted Williams all sucked, should turn in their HoF plaques, because you should be denied Hall credentials if a player's team never won a championship.

How can anyone in their right mind tell me Kiner doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame?
He played an entire career on one of the worst teams from the middle of the last century.
I'm not talking stinky teams, I'm talking about most of Kiner's Pirates teams were next-level crappy, so bad that they'd have trouble beating the Bridgeport Bluefish. (Google that)

While I'm in this question-and-answer mood today.
How the hell didn't Griffey's stacked Mariners teams never sniff a WS title?
Randy Johnson is not just a generational great; he's an all-time great.
Besides Jr., the M's lineup had an all-time great hitter (Edgar), and Jay Buhner had amazing raw homerun power. And let's not forget about that blowhard at SS? He was pretty good too, what's his name, Alex something. You know him, the guy who'll never be invited to Derek Jeter's home for Thanksgiving dinner, no less receive a Christmas card from Jeter either.

And while I'm still in this question-and-answer mood, I could argue that the 2001 Mariners team was the greatest team that didn't win a title. The Mariners won 116 games, the most wins in the live ball era. The only team that also won 116 games in a single season was the 1906 Cubs from the dead-ball era. Back in those days, there was no such thing as a foul pole, outfield fences, you took first base on three balls, not ball four, and the World Series was a best-of-nine game set.

The Bambino didn't need anabolic steroids; Nathan's hot Dogs did the trick.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-02-25, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Hey, Nash. I hate how the analysts somehow try to EXCLUDE Marino from greatness (b/c of no SB rings). But they gladly INCLUDE Plunkett and Eli b/c of two rings.

A few retorts:
1) Marino was SETTING records. IE, his stats were great relative to his era.
2) The 1984 Niners were arguably the most complete of the Montana era. Tough team to beat.
3) I would have LOVED to see the 1985 Dolphins play versus the Bears. I've said repeatedly that the Dolphin quick WRs were the antidote to the Bear physicality. Danny's quick release could have beaten CHI (but they were upset by the Patriots due to six turnovers).

Chucky, agreed and I think that is sometimes forgotten about Marino.

Mac4Lyfe · 10-04-25, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Dillon Gabriel named Cleveland Browns starting QB; Joe Flacco benched

And as usual, Shedeur handled the Gabriel promotion in a classy manner.
Shedeur Sanders angers fans and loses the plot with immature interaction

Not to be outdone, Shedur's mom is all sorts of butt-hurt over TV's NFL commentator Rex Ryan's critique of her son, which prompted Shedur to do that pantomime routine.
Shedeur Sanders' mom fires back at ex-NFL coach after critical comments

I'm hardly a fan of Creepy Rex, but from where I sit, his critique of Sanders may have been a tad harsh, but it was pretty accurate and fair.
I respect parents that'll go to the mat for their children, I do, but Mom isn't really helping matters here.
Once again, I'm hardly a Rex Ryan yahoo, but he was doing his job as a media reporter for Roger Goodell's Circus.
I'm probably the last person on Earth to offer maternal advice to Mrs. Sanders, but if I were to tell her, "Try to focus on the positive things Coach Stefanski has said about Shedeur the past few weeks, and leave the morons at the Bristol Clown College be to do with they do best, that being buffoons.

*aside to our pal Mac*
I place a high premium on loyalty. I respect your loyalty to all the Cleveland local teams, but riddle me this: How can you put up with this shit year in, and year out?
I can relate. I'm a Giants fan. At least Phil Simms and the stout defenses of LT and Harry Carson won the fans a couple of championships, and then Eli came along and won us two more.

New York is an original NFL franchise, and the Mara family has an embarrassment of riches.
Not to mention the NYC market is the center of the mass media universe, there is absolutely no reason why the G-Men have to torture us for years with this brand of horseshit football
And while I'm in a whiny mood, what's it too much to crack open the wallet, break out that Platinum Card, and give us miserable fans a better venue than MetLife, which is more like a mausoleum in the swamps of Jersey?
I'm not saying I'm entitled., I'm not entitled to anything. What I am saying is we deserve better than this.

And so does Cleveland

Rex Ryan was out of line. Made that shit too personal. Sanders will have his lovers and haters no matter what he says or in this case doesn’t say anything. The only thing matters is production. He’ll get his chance and he better make the most of it. He won’t get many.

I think the Browns offense will look better with Gabriel. Flacco was horrible.

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-04-25, 08:25 AM

Mac, I posted about Browns in my NFL notes:
*I'm calling it now. The DEF stats will come to fruition now.
...Browns were -5 on Avg Starting Field Position.
...IE, were getting killed by Spec Teams and Off turnovers.
...Gabriel will make some plays and extend drives.
...I think we'll see the Browns show low PPG allowed.
...Vikings this week. And then Steelers next week! And what a matchup vs Rodgers.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-04-25, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

Rex Ryan was out of line. Made that shit too personal. Sanders will have his lovers and haters no matter what he says or in this case doesn’t say anything. The only thing matters is production. He’ll get his chance and he better make the most of it. He won’t get many.

I think the Browns offense will look better with Gabriel. Flacco was horrible.

Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised since you are a Cleveland homer but Sanders deserves all the bad pub that he is getting in my view. He is a professional now and it's time to grow up and stop being so selfish. Why are we even talking about a backup/3rd string QB? Keep your head down and stay in the playbook and stop acting like a spoiled child and distraction to the team. It will probably take him longer to mature than the average person since he played his entire life for his father and seemingly did not live in reality and was coddled his entire life.

stevenash · 10-04-25, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised since you are a Cleveland homer but Sanders deserves all the bad pub that he is getting in my view. He is a professional now and it's time to grow up and stop being so selfish. Why are we even talking about a backup/3rd string QB? Keep your head down and stay in the playbook and stop acting like a spoiled child and distraction to the team. It will probably take him longer to mature than the average person since he played his entire life for his father and seemingly did not live in reality and was coddled his entire life.

Yes.

Which is why I qualified my post by saying "a tad harsh, but fair and accurate"
Ryan may have crossed the line and made his comments too personal. I'm not going to argue with Mac there, but the rest of Ryan's words were deserved.

Mac4Lyfe · 10-04-25, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Mac, I posted about Browns in my NFL notes:
*I'm calling it now. The DEF stats will come to fruition now.
...Browns were -5 on Avg Starting Field Position.
...IE, were getting killed by Spec Teams and Off turnovers.
...Gabriel will make some plays and extend drives.
...I think we'll see the Browns show low PPG allowed.
...Vikings this week. And then Steelers next week! And what a matchup vs Rodgers.

This should be the start to a mini-run by the Browns. I’m not sure why the Bikings are favored in this one. Gabriel should be able to extend a few drives with his feet. Something Flacco could not do. The Steelers are paper tigers. Win these 2 games and the Browns are back in the division hunt.

Mac4Lyfe · 10-04-25, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised since you are a Cleveland homer but Sanders deserves all the bad pub that he is getting in my view. He is a professional now and it's time to grow up and stop being so selfish. Why are we even talking about a backup/3rd string QB? Keep your head down and stay in the playbook and stop acting like a spoiled child and distraction to the team. It will probably take him longer to mature than the average person since he played his entire life for his father and seemingly did not live in reality and was coddled his entire life.

Why do you think he’s been selfish? How is he a distraction? That’s not what I’m hearing from his teammates. They say he’s been working hard every day. The media is pushing a narrative that isn’t there. They are trying to push that he’s a distraction. Most media wouldn’t even interview a 3rd string QB but they know Sanders gets clicks, so that’s who they target. Should Sanders refuse to give interviews? Then you’ll still say he’s selfish. He can’t win with his detractors. Nothing he can say to change their opinions. Even when he said NOTHING and pantomimed, people still bashed him. He can’t win off the field until he gets on the field and proves Rex Ryan wrong.

stevenash · 10-04-25, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

Why do you think he’s been selfish? How is he a distraction? That’s not what I’m hearing from his teammates. They say he’s been working hard every day. The media is pushing a narrative that isn’t there. They are trying to push that he’s a distraction. Most media wouldn’t even interview a 3rd string QB but they know Sanders gets clicks, so that’s who they target. Should Sanders refuse to give interviews? Then you’ll still say he’s selfish. He can’t win with his detractors. Nothing he can say to change their opinions. Even when he said NOTHING and pantomimed, people still bashed him. He can’t win off the field until he gets on the field and proves Rex Ryan wrong.

Which is also why I said in my post that Shedur's mom should focus on the positives that Stefanski mentioned, namely, Sanders' work (study) habits have greatly improved.

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-04-25, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

This should be the start to a mini-run by the Browns. I’m not sure why the Bikings are favored in this one. Gabriel should be able to extend a few drives with his feet. Something Flacco could not do. The Steelers are paper tigers. Win these 2 games and the Browns are back in the division hunt.

I like the optimism, Mac:

1) Yes. Even a football novice saw how geriatric Flacco was.
2) Amazing how this Division went south. Can only imagine if Jackson is out for time.
3) Agree w/ your outlook. Browns might be catching MINN/Pitt at the exact right time.

stevenash · 10-04-25, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

1) Yes. Even a football novice saw how geriatric Flacco was.

Not only that, Flaco is old, too.
lol
Of course, I know what the definition of geriatric is, just fooling around.
Props for the word usage, Chucky.

I'd like to see Stefanski have a fair and open competition between Sanders and Gabriel. Mac can back me up, but I believe Flaco is there for leadership purposes. I understand it's almost mid-season, and you can't hold an audition for QBs like Steichen did in preseason with Daniel "Indiana" Jones and Richardson.

Steichen wanted Richardson to succeed, but Richardson really blew himself out of the water when he botched that simple play in the last preseason game. Steichen called for one of those counter plays. Richardson was to roll out with the blocking scheme, the line went left, and for reasons unknown, Richardson rolled out to the right, got CRUSHED while doing so. Steichen's body language said it all; it was as if he was saying, "You're just never going to get it, kid, and got demoted to second string.

Mac4Lyfe · 10-04-25, 07:19 PM

Gabriel looks pretty competent. He played 6 years of college ball. Start with him and see how he does. I think he’ll do well the next few games but eventually defense will adjust. Then throw Sanders in there for a few games. See which guy can manage the game better. If neither of them, then use a draft pick next year. Best situation is for one or both of them look serviceable. I kinda like both of them over this years CFB QBs.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-05-25, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

Why do you think he’s been selfish? How is he a distraction? That’s not what I’m hearing from his teammates. They say he’s been working hard every day. The media is pushing a narrative that isn’t there. They are trying to push that he’s a distraction. Most media wouldn’t even interview a 3rd string QB but they know Sanders gets clicks, so that’s who they target. Should Sanders refuse to give interviews? Then you’ll still say he’s selfish. He can’t win with his detractors. Nothing he can say to change their opinions. Even when he said NOTHING and pantomimed, people still bashed him. He can’t win off the field until he gets on the field and proves Rex Ryan wrong.

I know he gets clicks but it is just trash journalism.

So his antics are not causing a distraction? Now teammates and coaches have to answer questions as to what a non starter is doing in interviews etc etc. How about being a good teammate and supporting Gabriel rather than stealing his shine and spotlight after being named the starter? If that is not selfish and childish behavior, I don't know what is. Agree to disagree as usual....

Mac4Lyfe · 10-05-25, 10:24 AM

what are you talking about? Not one player or coach has had to answer for Sanders. Sanders hasn’t taken anyone’s shine. Gabriel is the starter now. It’s his time to shine.

JAKEPEAVY21 · 10-05-25, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Mac4Lyfe

what are you talking about? Not one player or coach has had to answer for Sanders. Sanders hasn’t taken anyone’s shine. Gabriel is the starter now. It’s his time to shine.

You are delusional..no point engaging with you.

pavyracer · 10-05-25, 10:35 AM

Dillon Gabriel is playing very well for a rookie on his first game. Probably one of the best rookie QB starts in NFL history.

Optional · 10-05-25, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Dillon Gabriel is playing very well for a rookie on his first game. Probably one of the best rookie QB starts in NFL history.

Think he is tall enough to succeed longer term?

He looks tiny in the huddle.

ChuckyTheGoat · 10-05-25, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Optional

Think he is tall enough to succeed longer term?

He looks tiny in the huddle.

Good question, Opti. My two cents:
1) His arm-strength is a question. He struggled in WIND games in College.
2) He accumulated a ton of stats in Coll. And he's showing professionalism. Should be in the league for a while.

As for the Browns today, uggh. Being a Browns fan = a life-long laxative. Props to Wentz for coming up huge.