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Ask those who say they don't like if they would rather have the healthcare that they have right now - or if they would like to pay $10-15k per year to be covered only at 80% of the inflated cost of healthcare that we pay in this country - those that complain have often not experienced American "Healthcare" ... As someone who has lived in a country where healthcare was "free" and as someone who knows at least 50-60 people who have lived in the UK, France, canada etc and who now live in the US .. I don't know of one of them that would not rather have the government run healthcare right now ... the only people that believe foreigners don't like the "free" healthcare - are Americans.
Having said that - I don't like the bill that is about to be passed - it is now so watered down that the only people who win are the insurance companies (I guess the ads from them telling people how bad a national healthcare would be worked out great for the insurance companies and hospitals that will now have mandated coverage with no extra competition)
The amount of money spent in the US on healthcare right now is more than any of the countries that have government run healthcare pay to provide "free" coverage for everyone .. the issue is not the amount they you or I would pay - it is the amount of profit that the insurance companies would have to lose in order to provide coverage at a reasonable cost to everyone.... but you guys go on believing that what you have got right now is working just fine for you
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Fukk this shit. I cannot believe this is going to pass. Never thought it had a chance.
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Its thinking like this that will lead to the downfall of the United States of America. Unlimited, free medical care is NOT a right of any American and our country certainly can NOT afford it.Why, people should all have health care, the same as we have police and fire protection.
This medical care plan of Barack Obama's will benefit the bottom 10% of our population who are already consuming far more than they are producing at the direct expense of the 90% who work hard and are entitled to quality medical care.
The middle class is going to get absolutely shafted by this.
Very well said and 100% accurate.People always want shit free, brock and all the liberals can go to hell for **** ing up my country
Knownone, wtf, look at health care in other countries, it's a logical step that we should have made years ago.
There is nothing logical about this!!!
90% of the population who has worked hard and earned the privilege of medical care (yes, I mean privilege) are going to see the quality of their medical care be drastically reduced solely to give even more to the bottom 10% that are bleeding our country dry from the inside out. Cappy, people like you are DESTROYING our country each and every day with your warped socialist thinking.
The plain, simple truth is that socialized government-run medicine delivers a far lower quality product than the current system. If this horrible legislation is not unwound, it will be IRREVERSIBLE and will have a negative effect on not only the United States but the rest of the world.
The bottom 10% of the population that this legislation is designed to help are already abusing the medical care system day in and day out. They are the reason why hospitals are forced to charge $15 for a Tylenol pill. Giving them more free benefits at the direct expense of everyone else is INSANE.
These liberal PARASITE politicians are forcing this shit down the throats of Americans who clearly do NOT want it. If these politicians exempt themselves from this plan while forcing everyone else to accept it, I believe they deserve to be executed.Comment -
all the people that work will be paying for the lazy unemployed drunks, druggies, etc
If you support this bill get the fuk out of this CountryComment -
JW,
The system is working just fine for the 85% of us who work hard and have medical insurance. We have far better, higher quality medical coverage than you do and we would like to keep it that way.
Why don't you focus on the problems in your own country as opposed to butting your nose into the affairs of Americans?
Nobody asked for your opinion and it is certainly NOT wanted in any way, shape or form.Comment -
The Bottom line is that people would rather see people die than get healthcare. It's sad but all you gotta do is just read this threadComment -
This is my country ... I'm American ... but thanks for your typically American response, i'm glad only 50% of the population are as friendly as you ....
As I said before ... the difference is - I've experienced alternatives ... and therefore I feel that my opinion ... wanted or not by you .. is worth sharing.
You don't get it .... with the amount of money already being spent - America should be able to provide "free" healthcare for every single man woman and child .... the inefficiency in the system and the over-charging by insurance companies and hospitals and medical providers is what is crippling American healthcare.
If you are admitted to the hospital that my wife is a nurse in ... you (or your insurance company) is charged $120 for one tylenol .. you're happy with this system where you are charged 20% of $120 for an over the counter medication that can be had for pennies? The insurance company sure as shit is happy - and so is the hospital ... and so are you apparently ... me .. not so much ...Comment -
You guys are overlooking one HUGE difference between the U.S. and those other countries that provide health care. They don't have the influx of illegal immigrants we have sucking the system dry. Why the hell do you think California is bankrupt? They estimate there are nearly 3 million illegals in California (accounting for about 7% of the total population). That means they add anywhere from 4 to 6 BILLION in costs...primarily for jails, schools, and hospitalization. Beyond those services, the illegal population adds to the overall cost of other parts of local government as well, form police and fire protection to highway maintenance.
* Prisons: In fiscal year 2009-10, California expects to spend about $834 million to incarcerate 19,000 illegal immigrants in the state's prisons. In Los Angeles County, illegal immigrants add between $370 million and $550 million annually to criminal justice costs, including prosecution, defense, probation and jails, according to Supervisor Mike Antonovich.
* Health Care: The expected state tab for health care in fiscal 2009-10 is $703 million for as many as 780,000 illegal immigrants. Of that, $486 million goes to emergency services. But low-income illegal residents are also eligible for some non-emergency health services, including prenatal and postpartum care, abortions, breast and cervical cancer treatment and certain types of long-term care, such as stays in nursing homes. Most of the non-emergency care for illegal immigrants was authorized by the Legislature in the 1980s.
* Education: The state has no official count of how many students are in the country illegally because school districts do not ask. But the state legislative analyst estimated, based on data from the Pew Hispanic Center, that the state's 6.3 million public school students include about 300,000 illegal residents. At an annual cost of about $7,626 each, the total comes to nearly $2.3 billion.
(Facts provided by John Lammi)
As for the oil comment, we would not be relying on oil from the Middle East today if we had not added 100 million people to our population since 1970 (more than two-thirds of that growth owing directly to immigration).
The U.S. will never achieve energy independence without stabilizing its population. Americans have been reducing our individual carbon footprints for years, but our efforts have been undermined by the forced-growth immigration policies of our government.Comment -
cougar is SPOT ON
you cannot compare america to any other country
it has huge porous borders with virtually impoverished NATIONS (yea they all stream in from way below the border)
i live in hong kong where health care is universal and virtually free (my friend had a baby cost 50 usd dollars-yes fifty bucks)
but everyone works and pays taxes
if the same in america this would be a non issueComment -
Also should be a limit on babies you can produce
these dumb fuks just keep having babies with no money
its a disgraceComment -
Wrong -
"Claims about the number of illegal immigrants living in UK, vary between 600,000 to three million"
.. though official estimates put it closer to 1 million (with a population around 1/5th the size of the US.)
Plenty of countries have "illegals" problems - this is NOT a US phenomenon.
This is not an immigration problem ...... it is a cost and excessive profits problem.Comment -
Here is something we agree on - those with children should pay extra taxes not get a tax break - why the **** are MY taxes paying for YOUR child's education?
[sarcasm]
How about you start paying extra tax so that my dogs can eat prime rib every day instead of the chicken and fish that they eat right now ... i'd rather my taxes go towards paying for healthcare for an illegal immigrant than for your child's education.
[/sarcasm]
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Okay so the entire UK is equal to 1/3 of the state of California's problem. You do realize that we could easily have the money to fix such problems (and many others) if we would simply patrol our borders and deport illegals, right? I don't have problems with immigrants. I have problems with illegals. The two are different.Comment -
Cougar, while we can debate till the cows come home, your post really says a lot. Hard no to agree with.
Generalizations are easy but looking into each unique circumstance seems to be logical rather than comparing apples to oranges which is the common theme when debating certain topics.Comment -
Agreed - they are called "illegals" for a reason ... I have no problem with the US running flights daily to the airports furthest away from the US border .... catch them - fly them "home" rinse - repeat ...
I'm an immigrant myself ... I spent several thousand dollars and three - four years filling in paperwork and giving fingerprints and sitting in government buildings to do this the right way .. these is no reason why others should not do the same.Comment -
Well, see, that's exactly my point. Why should people like you who did it the right way suffer because of those that chose to break the law? And our government allows it on a regular basis. Then you have people like Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona who are TRYING to do their job but Janet Napalatno (from DHS) steps in and basically says he's not allowed to do his job anymore. Sometimes you have to step back from a situation in order to really understand the root causes. Is the medical system in this country perfect? No. Hell no. Are people paying too much for prescription drugs? Yes. Are there other ways to fix the problem without blowing up the whole system? Certainly. For starters, how about we limit the amount of money a hospital or doctor can be sued for. Part of the reason why costs are so high is they are afraid of getting sued. I know taking on trial lawyers might be a conflict of interest for Obama considering how closely he is tied to them, but it really is what's best for America.
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The one thing I wanted from the healthcare bill was more competition ... i'd have welcomed a government run healthcare plan, a co-op and three or four more alternatives on top of those .. the only thing that competition can do is bring down prices ... I had a medical procedure earlier this year ... do you know - nobody could give me even a guess as to how much this would cost me before I went in to the hospital ..... not one person could guess within several hundred or even a thousand dollars how much I would need to pay .... How is this right ? Why do I have to wait until secret handshakes are done behind closed doors before I can find out how much a procedure will cost ... sure there are variables .. but .. as I said to the hospital staff .... If you can't tell me how much this is going to cost me - I can't tell you if you are ever going to get your money from me ...
The current system is broken - its wrong - it benefits nobody but the insurance companies ... it needs changing ... someone had to do something ... unfortunately all this whining from all sides has given us a watered down bill that does nothing for anybody .... and that's a real shame .. the opportunity was there - and once again it was wasted ...Comment -
Unfortunately, people like JW (who think the federal government is the answer to all their problems) are growing in number.
The vast, vast majority of people in this group consume far more than they will ever produce. IN addition, these people are constantly complaining that they are being taken advantage of and screech for more government freebees and whine that the rich should pay for it.
Our founding forefathers NEVER had any intention of allowing people like this to vote and for good reason.
As long as its one man/one vote and those living in the ghettos collecting welfare checks have the same voting power as those that actually produce for the good of the country, then liberal democrats like Barack Obama who promise the world will continue to get elected and our country's deterioration will only pick up speed.
In my opinion, there is going to be a complete and total breakdown in the United States of America before the end of Obama's presidential term and you can bet these useless liberal parasites will continue to blame President Bush for it.
May all liberal democrats ROT IN HELL.Comment -
Fortunately, people like andywend (who thinks the status quo is just fine - even though social security is broke, medicare is broke and the federal deficits are at the highest levels ever) are declining in numbers .... maybe one day soon we will be able to rise up and actually get something done for once instead of sitting on our hands and blaming the next guy ...
D)
p.s i'm not a liberal democrat ... but nice try ...
... as long as my vote cancels out your vote from here until the end of time - i can die a happy man
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DudeFortunately, people like andywend (who thinks the status quo is just fine - even though social security is broke, medicare is broke and the federal deficits are at the highest levels ever) are declining in numbers .... maybe one day soon we will be able to rise up and actually get something done for once instead of sitting on our hands and blaming the next guy ...
Not to speak for Andy at all but ..
I am certain he is only pointing out the FACT that the government has screwed up everything that you mentioned in your post. Wanting more government to solve it is loco and will only make it worse. They ALWAYS do.Comment -
They can take this bill and SHUV IT UP THEIR ASSESComment -
Going to put us in a depression
We will have worst health care system in the worldComment -
Unfortunately because of the way things work - government is the only think that can solve it ... just because you or I don't think they ever will is no reason to block everything that is proposed because it involves more government - obviously what we are doing right now is not working ... I'm sure as shit that "big business" is not going to solve anything ... so what's left ... wise man once said - we get the government we deserve ... all of the arguments over healthcare proves this point perfectly ... a solution that would work was proposed - people jumped up and down because it might mean more government - so all of the good stuff is taken out to placate those people .. and we pass a pile crap into law .. we got exactly what we deserved and what we asked for ...
unfortunately - a politicians ONLY goal is to ensure re-election. So they are sure not to piss off too many people - that is why we have no politicians with balls in this or any other country ... (at least those that do have balls don't last very long in politics)Comment -
No disrespect here, but are you insane? You acknowledge that government is corrupt, passes worthless legislation, and nearly every other similar government entitlement program is broke, but your solution to all these problems is MORE government.Unfortunately because of the way things work - government is the only think that can solve it ... just because you or I don't think they ever will is no reason to block everything that is proposed because it involves more government - obviously what we are doing right now is not working ... I'm sure as shit that "big business" is not going to solve anything ... so what's left ... wise man once said - we get the government we deserve ... all of the arguments over healthcare proves this point perfectly ... a solution that would work was proposed - people jumped up and down because it might mean more government - so all of the good stuff is taken out to placate those people .. and we pass a pile crap into law .. we got exactly what we deserved and what we asked for ... unfortunately - a politicians ONLY goal is to ensure re-election. So they are sure not to piss off too many people - that is why we have no politicians with balls in this or any other country ... (at least those that do have balls don't last very long in politics)Comment -
Ask those who say they don't like if they would rather have the healthcare that they have right now - or if they would like to pay $10-15k per year to be covered only at 80% of the inflated cost of healthcare that we pay in this country - those that complain have often not experienced American "Healthcare" ... As someone who has lived in a country where healthcare was "free" and as someone who knows at least 50-60 people who have lived in the UK, France, canada etc and who now live in the US .. I don't know of one of them that would not rather have the government run healthcare right now ... the only people that believe foreigners don't like the "free" healthcare - are Americans.
Having said that - I don't like the bill that is about to be passed - it is now so watered down that the only people who win are the insurance companies (I guess the ads from them telling people how bad a national healthcare would be worked out great for the insurance companies and hospitals that will now have mandated coverage with no extra competition)
The amount of money spent in the US on healthcare right now is more than any of the countries that have government run healthcare pay to provide "free" coverage for everyone .. the issue is not the amount they you or I would pay - it is the amount of profit that the insurance companies would have to lose in order to provide coverage at a reasonable cost to everyone.... but you guys go on believing that what you have got right now is working just fine for you
you're right on on every point. Whatever reform happens in this country is not intended to help the poor or the public in general. Their only interest is to make more money for business elites, while more efficiently exploiting the public.bird bird da bird's da wordComment -
... and how exactly do we get less government - and who runs the country in the meantime? Because we know for a fact that both parties that we have right now are pretty much exactly the same - one will take from the rich and give to the poor - the other will give to the rich and hope that it trickles down to the poor ... both will rack up bigger deficits .. one with wars with anyone that has oil or looks at us funny - the other with national healthcare and welfare programs ... i'd rather spend the money looking after the ones here in the US that need it .. than spending money going on a killing spree in a foreign country ... call me crazy ...
I'm all for the spending on infrastructure rather than spending on Iraq's infrastructure .. while we have the choice of bad and more badderer ... i'll take the party that seems to want to put our own house in order ...
Until there is a viable third party .... nothing will change ... hey - I don't have kids .. I personally don't give a crap what state the country will be in 50 years from now - i'm quite happy to rape the resources if it means I pay less for a gallon of gas .... those of you with children i would have thought would be glad that someone is finally building bridges and overhauling the electricity grid, and building roads, and rolling out broadband to the rural areas ... lord knows the party that you voted for thought the same way I do when it had its chance to change things ....
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