New ABC News poll...

[mezmurized2]

April 24 ABC News poll and Ipsos...
Source link at bottom

• 72% believe moving too quickly to loosen the stay-at-home orders is a greater threat to the country than moving too slowly
• 86% think social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible policies
• only 14% of Americans think stay-at-home orders constrict personal liberty
• 80% say they are unlikely to go out to public places that are likely to draw crowds.
• 82% of Republicans align with the view that social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible, life-saving actions

Among independents,
72% see more risk for the country in moving too quickly than too slowly;
80% support social distancing and the stay-at-home orders,
compared to 20% who believe they are a government overreach;
and 76% say they would be unlikely to leave home, compared to 24%
who said they would be likely, if those emergency measures were lifted now.

https://tinyurl.com/yc62wf2o

[jjgold]

good poll and correct

[Iona]

Interesting results. Thanks for sharing.

I am firmly in the camp supporting the Sweden model - Business as usual with implementation of social distancing. The deaths per million look to be within a normal distribution of numbers. And, there are reports that Sweden may, and I do say may, be approaching herd immunity shortly. I know most disagree.

Ready. Aim.Flame Away :-)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Belgium	6,490	11.42	568.2
Spain	22,157	46.72	474.21
Italy	25,549	60.43	422.78
France	21,856	66.99	326.27
United Kingdom	18,738	66.49	281.82
Netherlands	4,177	17.23	242.41
Sweden	2,021	10.18	198.46
Switzerland	1,549	8.52	181.88
Ireland	794	4.85	163.59
United States	49,889	327.17	152.49
Portugal	820	10.28	79.75
Denmark	394	5.8	67.96
Germany	5,575	82.93	67.23

[mezmurized2]

Interesting results. Thanks for sharing.

I am firmly in the camp supporting the Sweden model - Business as usual with implementation of social distancing. The deaths per million look to be within a normal distribution of numbers.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Belgium	6,490	11.42	568.2
Spain	22,157	46.72	474.21
Italy	25,549	60.43	422.78
France	21,856	66.99	326.27
United Kingdom	18,738	66.49	281.82
Netherlands	4,177	17.23	242.41
Sweden	2,021	10.18	198.46
Switzerland	1,549	8.52	181.88
Ireland	794	4.85	163.59
United States	49,889	327.17	152.49
Portugal	820	10.28	79.75
Denmark	394	5.8	67.96
Germany	5,575	82.93	67.23

=======
No flame here.

First, your column headers are incorrectly shifted to the left by one.

Second, Friday evening I showed the following numbers.
Take note my first 9 listed countries acted quickly to lockdown.
Whereas the top listed 6 countries in YOUR graph (above) are
countries known to have and/or admitted they acted to slowly.

Remember, in the winter months, nordic countries don't get
a whole lot of incoming tourists from all around the globe,
therefore incoming virus carriers is vastly reduced compared
to say, New York city...ergo, the community spread starts slower

Anyway, for those who believe in the manner in which the
Democratic-Socialist government of SWEDEN is handling things,
here are some current figures on DEATHS /per million population.
One is free to review these stats at https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

2.6...Japan
4.7...S.Korea
13....Poland
32...Finland (neighbor to Sweden)
37...Norway (neighbor to Sweden)
69...Denmark (neighbor to Sweden)
59...Austria
63...Canada *lockdowns by provinces, not feds
68...Germany

154...USA

213...SWEDEN open for business

288...UK (Boris Johnson gov't admits they were too slow!)

[Iona]

No flame here.
First, your column headers are incorrectly shifted to the left by one.
Second, Friday evening I showed the following numbers.
Take note the first 9 listed countries acted quickly to lockdown.

Remember, in the winter months, nordic countries don't get
a whole lot of incoming tourists from all around the globe,
therefore incoming virus carriers is vastly reduced compared
to say, New York city...
Anyway, for those who believe in the manner in which the
Democratic-Socialist government of SWEDEN is handling things,
here are some current figures on DEATHS /per million population.
One is free to review these stats at https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

2.6...Japan
4.7...S.Korea
13....Poland
32...Finland (neighbor to Sweden)
37...Norway (neighbor to Sweden)
69...Denmark (neighbor to Sweden)
59...Austria
63...Canada *lockdowns by provinces, not feds
68...Germany

154...USA

213...SWEDEN open for business

288...UK (Boris Johnson gov't admits they were too slow!)

Thank you for the response.

Last question - I promise.

What about the potential for Heard Immunity ? And, I understand that we do not know if one could be infected with Covid-19 again after recovery. However, most believe there will be a period of immunity.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/494113-sweden-could-reach-herd-immunity-in-weeks-top

In the end, I think that we will agree to disagree.

Stay healthy :-)

[lakerboy]

Pauly poker thanks

[mezmurized2]

Thank you for the response.
What about the potential for Heard Immunity ?

------
And thank YOU for sharing your views in a rational and respectful manner.
Maybe we can start something....

From my understanding, "herd immunity" is when enough people in a given
community have contracted a disease, recovered, and are clear of it and
as a resultthey have developed helpul "antibodies" (cells that will attack the
same virus if exposed again) - thus providing either full or partial immunity
to them - which in turn means anyone within that same community who
never yet contracted the virus but mingling in that population of immune people
makes it much less likely for the yet unaffected to catch it.
Thus, as more people get infected (and subsequently recover) then
"herd immunity" likewise slowly improves.

It is "probable" (but not yet proven with this strain) that after infection/recovery
one is likely immune from a second infection (and therefore not infectious again)
Let's all remain hopeful...

USA has about 331 million population.
What would be a number to get infected and recover in order to
establish a reasonably good "herd immunity?"
100 million? ...or perhaps just 1/5th the population (66 million) ?
Hard to say.
It'll be a lot of sick people (who recover) and a lot of deaths before we get to
"herd immunity." I'm betting they actually make a working vaccine before that.
I read where they are fast tracking trials on one possibility as we speak.

The American model of "stay-at-home" orders is keeping the deaths per million
tally significantly lower than the Swedish model.
Even with that, we are on track to have 58,000 deaths just between April 1 - April 30.
What would those numbers look like WITHOUT tough stay-at-home orders!
Probably at least double that if not higher.
In just the month of April....
.

[Chi_archie]

Thank you for the response.

Last question - I promise.

What about the potential for Heard Immunity ? And, I understand that we do not know if one could be infected with Covid-19 again after recovery. However, most believe there will be a period of immunity.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/494113-sweden-could-reach-herd-immunity-in-weeks-top

In the end, I think that we will agree to disagree.

Stay healthy :-)

It will be interesting to track, but more conclusive when things are getting closer to the end.

Sweden is getting killed when compared to Norway, Denmark, Finland which are Countries with similar geographic location, Date of first cases, and Population density.

Sweden officials did say that their decision was not based on acquring herd immunity, but rather on putting in place measures that could be sustained for the long duration, which is a smart reason.

as far as herd immunity. It can take quite some time to reach the 70% of so $ you need in this situation (possibly higher)

think of the Flu. We start out with a good % of the US poplation immune every year due to vaccines and previous acquired immunities from similar strains. But we actually never get herd immunity levels in a given year where people are not being cautious (in Sweden despite lack of government restrictions, people have in fact changed their behaviors pretty drastically) So if a bad Flu season here can result in 60k deaths or at a similar level in a country like Sweden they are facing a few big risks.

a) Covid19 Immunity is not long lasting or none at all
b) Covid19 will till be doing damage when Sweden's next flu season starts and they get overloaded and hospitals swamped.

I'm not sure how it will pan out, but you gotta admire their guts for thinking outside the box and against the grain

because the risks their political leaders took will cost them everything if they are wrong.

I think I read last week that alot of top scientists there are speaking out now.

[Iona]

------
And thank YOU for sharing your views in a rational and respectful manner.
Maybe we can start something....

From my understanding, "herd immunity" is when enough people in a given
community have contracted a disease, recovered, and are clear of it and
as a resultthey have developed helpul "antibodies" (cells that will attack the
same virus if exposed again) - thus providing either full or partial immunity
to them - which in turn means anyone within that same community who
never yet contracted the virus but mingling in that population of immune people
makes it much less likely for the yet unaffected to catch it.
Thus, as more people get infected (and subsequently recover) then
"herd immunity" likewise slowly improves.

It is "probable" (but not yet proven with this strain) that after infection/recovery
one is likely immune from a second infection (and therefore not infectious again)
Let's all remain hopeful...

USA has about 331 million population.
What would be a number to get infected and recover in order to
establish a reasonably good "herd immunity?"
100 million? ...or perhaps just 1/5th the population (66 million) ?
Hard to say.
It'll be a lot of sick people (who recover) and a lot of deaths before we get to
"herd immunity." I'm betting they actually make a working vaccine before that.
I read where they are fast tracking trials on one possibility as we speak.

The American model of "stay-at-home" orders is keeping the deaths per million
tally significantly lower than the Swedish model.
Even with that, we are on track to have 58,000 deaths just between April 1 - April 30.
What would those numbers look like WITHOUT tough stay-at-home orders!
Probably at least double that if not higher.
In just the month of April....
.

Thanks again for your response.

Bottom line we both really do not know for certain; however, we may now have a control group - Alabama.

I sincerely hope, as I am sure do as well, that Alabama's reopening with social distancing works.

Stay tuned !

[unde0087]

It is all good now while people are getting free money but when that free money is gone, which about now it already is, are they going to be thinking the same thing when they can't buy gas, food, or anything else for there family while worrying about a virus that won't affect 90% of the people worried about it?

The same people will be bitching up a storm 5 years from now while they are helping pay back all the money they needed and still lost their business during this. We will see how they are feeling about it then when the truth comes out about the reality of this.

[milwaukee mike]

that poll was a whopping 506 people, and people that respond to polls are usually dumbasses

only 2% of democrats and 17% of republicans think stay-at-home orders are an over-reaction by governments? that can't possibly be right... almost 1/2 of the people i talk to think it's bs

[Iona]

[QUOTE=Chi_archie;29408333]It will be interesting to track, but more conclusive when things are getting closer to the end.


a) Covid19 Immunity is not long lasting or none at all

IMHO, this is the HUGE wildcard; nobody knows if it is long lasting, short lasting, or none at all. From what I understand, there is no irrefutable data either way.

If there is no immunity we are all screwed.

I know most disagree with me, and I am good with that. Full disclosure: I am sheltered-in-place and want to get back out observing the proper social distancing best practices.

[mezmurized2]

April 24 ABC News poll and Ipsos...

Source link at bottom

• 72% believe moving too quickly to loosen the stay-at-home orders is a greater threat to the country than moving too slowly
• 86% think social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible policies
• only 14% of Americans think stay-at-home orders constrict personal liberty
• 80% say they are unlikely to go out to public places that are likely to draw crowds.
• 82% of Republicans align with the view that social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible, life-saving actions

Among independents,
72% see more risk for the country in moving too quickly than too slowly;
80% support social distancing and the stay-at-home orders,
compared to 20% who believe they are a government overreach;
and 76% say they would be unlikely to leave home, compared to 24%
who said they would be likely, if those emergency measures were lifted now.

https://tinyurl.com/yc62wf2o

----------

It is all good now while people are getting free money but when that free money is gone, which about now it already is, are they going to be thinking the same thing when they can't buy gas, food, or anything else for there family while worrying about a virus that won't affect 90% of the people worried about it?

Ya....good point.
We'll just have to wait and see.

[milwaukee mike]

let's not forget all these scare tactics were done because all the hospitals and clinics worldwide were just going to be so overrun with patients! well guess what, every waiting room looks like this and yet the fearmongering continues

[Sam Odom]

ABC 'News'

[Kermit]

Right now, I am more concerned with people getting desperate and committing crime/murder so that they can survive. It's going to get to that point eventually.

[pavyracer]

They opened business in Georgia yesterday and almost everyone stayed home. People will not get out of their houses to go to open business when the President of the US has not stepped out of the White House in 6 weeks.

[mezmurized2]

It will be interesting to track, but more conclusive when things are getting closer to the end.

Sweden is getting killed when compared to Norway, Denmark, Finland
which are Countries with similar geographic location, Date of first cases, and Population density.

Sweden officials did say that their decision was not based on acquring herd immunity, but rather on putting in place measures that could be sustained for the long duration, which is a smart reason.

as far as herd immunity. It can take quite some time to reach the 70% of so $ you need in this situation (possibly higher)

think of the Flu. We start out with a good % of the US poplation immune every year due to vaccines and previous acquired immunities from similar strains. But we actually never get herd immunity levels in a given year where people are not being cautious (in Sweden despite lack of government restrictions, people have in fact changed their behaviors pretty drastically) So if a bad Flu season here can result in 60k deaths or at a similar level in a country like Sweden they are facing a few big risks.

a) Covid19 Immunity is not long lasting or none at all
b) Covid19 will till be doing damage when Sweden's next flu season starts and they get overloaded and hospitals swamped.

I'm not sure how it will pan out, but you gotta admire their guts for thinking outside the box and against the grain

because the risks their political leaders took will cost them everything if they are wrong.

I think I read last week that alot of top scientists there are speaking out now.

------

Very good points!

Of course, we all hope for "herd immunity" or even better, a vaccine SOON that works!
Another hope is that the summer actually will cause COVID-19 to drastically decline!
Failing that, we hope that if we do catch it, we don't get gawdawful sick (as many have)
but will have immunity after we recover...
And I trust that if we do catch it, sick or not, we take major precautions to NOT
contaminate common surfaces or other people directly...

[Emily_Haines]

Not many things I agree with Trump on but these lock downs are bullshit.

No reason things can't be as they were.

And fuc k all these losers saying "we are all in this together"

They are always the ones making 120k per year now working from their basements while everyone else is receiving a steady stream of piss to their face.

[Mike Huntertz]

The US who is woeful in testing, has done 50% more tests than Sweden in test/pop.
Yesterday was Sweden's highest day for cases and today isn't looking much better.
They are just getting started.

Interesting results. Thanks for sharing.

I am firmly in the camp supporting the Sweden model - Business as usual with implementation of social distancing. The deaths per million look to be within a normal distribution of numbers. And, there are reports that Sweden may, and I do say may, be approaching herd immunity shortly. I know most disagree.

Ready. Aim.Flame Away :-)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Belgium	6,490	11.42	568.2
Spain	22,157	46.72	474.21
Italy	25,549	60.43	422.78
France	21,856	66.99	326.27
United Kingdom	18,738	66.49	281.82
Netherlands	4,177	17.23	242.41
Sweden	2,021	10.18	198.46
Switzerland	1,549	8.52	181.88
Ireland	794	4.85	163.59
United States	49,889	327.17	152.49
Portugal	820	10.28	79.75
Denmark	394	5.8	67.96
Germany	5,575	82.93	67.23

[mr. leisure]

Tens of thousands flock to Orange County beaches as heat wave lingers over SoCal

Crowds of people were seen at Huntington and Newport beaches and officials are expecting even larger crowds over the weekend.



By Jessica De Nova and Leanne Suter

Friday, April 24, 2020 11:27PM

Ad Duration00:00
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Tens of thousands flocked to Orange County beaches that are still open during the coronavirus pandemic as the hot weather settled over the region.








HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. (KABC) -- Tens of thousands flocked to Orange County beaches that are still open during the coronavirus pandemic as the hot weather settled over the region.

Surfers and crowds of people were seen along the Huntington Beach coast as the region is experiencing a heat wave that is expected to last through the weekend. Officials urged individuals to continue practicing physical distancing when outside, but that didn't seem to be the case Friday afternoon. Many beach goers were seen with less than six feet between them and many weren't wearing face coverings.


While the beach may be open, the parking lots aren't which forced many to look for parking in adjacent neighborhoods. Officials are bracing for the crowds to get bigger over the weekend.

"We're trying to ask people to maybe put themselves in our residents' position and think about the fact that our residents also have limited parking," said Hungtingon Beach Officer Angela Bennett. She added that while it may be challenging, officers will be enforcing parking violations.

Newport Beach also saw large crowds. Area lifeguards estimate up to 40,000 people were on the beach on Friday - double what they saw the day before.



Tens of thousands flocked to Orange County beaches that are still open during the coronavirus pandemic as the hot weather settled over the region.






Earlier this week, the county Board of Supervisors voted to keep some beaches and outdoor areas open, though parking lots would remain closed.


Meanwhile in neighboring Los Angeles County, beaches remain closed and officials are asking residents to avoid traveling to other counties with less stringent stay-at-home orders, such as Ventura County.

SoCal heat wave: What's open, what's closed this weekend amid coronavirus pandemic


With a heat wave hitting SoCal this weekend, here's a look at what outdoor activities are open or closed in different cities during the coronavirus pandemic.







Here's a breakdown of what beaches are currently open in Orange County as of Friday:

Huntington Beach: Lots, metered parking and pier closed


Newport Beach: The Wedge and surrounding area, parking lots, piers, Oceanfront Boardwalk, Balboa Island Bayfront Walkway closed
Laguna Beach: Closed
Dana Point: Parking lots closed
San Clemente, city: Open starting Saturday 4/25 at 6 a.m. For active use only, no gathering in groups of 10 or more, no settling in place
State Beaches: Parking closed, San Clemente State Beach closed completely

[BeatTheJerk]

Not many things I agree with Trump on but these lock downs are bullshit.

No reason things can't be as they were.

And fuc k all these losers saying "we are all in this together"

They are always the ones making 120k per year now working from their basements while everyone else is receiving a steady stream of piss to their face.

It’s ok you’ve made millions betting on sports in your lifetime. You are one of them too. You’re not one of us.

[Sam Odom]

Had my runners get down 1.32 million on Alabama -13.5 - Emily_Haines

[Art Vandelay]

that poll was a whopping 506 people, and people that respond to polls are usually dumbasses

only 2% of democrats and 17% of republicans think stay-at-home orders are an over-reaction by governments? that can't possibly be right... almost 1/2 of the people i talk to think it's bs

Exactly Mike. 17% of Republicans? Has to be closer to 50-60%. But we got that brand spanking new "hospital" waiting at State Fair Park for that huge "overflow" of Corona patients - So we got that going for us... LOL

[pologq]

i am not against going back to work with things in place for protection. however, in businesses where it is impossible to social distance and such, i would hold off.

[deltgen]

They are always the ones making 120k per year now working from their basements while everyone else is receiving a steady stream of piss to their face.

Emily has hit the nail on the head.

[blackbart]

Tens of thousands flock to Orange County beaches as heat wave lingers over SoCal

Crowds of people were seen at Huntington and Newport beaches and officials are expecting even larger crowds over the weekend.



By Jessica De Nova and Leanne Suter

Friday, April 24, 2020 11:27PM

Ad Duration00:00
PauseCurrent time01:56Seek

02:39


Duration02:58Toggle MuteVolume
Settings
Toggle Fullscreen

EMBED <>MORE VIDEOS

Tens of thousands flocked to Orange County beaches that are still open during the coronavirus pandemic as the hot weather settled over the region.








HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. (KABC) -- Tens of thousands flocked to Orange County beaches that are still open during the coronavirus pandemic as the hot weather settled over the region.

Surfers and crowds of people were seen along the Huntington Beach coast as the region is experiencing a heat wave that is expected to last through the weekend. Officials urged individuals to continue practicing physical distancing when outside, but that didn't seem to be the case Friday afternoon. Many beach goers were seen with less than six feet between them and many weren't wearing face coverings.


While the beach may be open, the parking lots aren't which forced many to look for parking in adjacent neighborhoods. Officials are bracing for the crowds to get bigger over the weekend.

"We're trying to ask people to maybe put themselves in our residents' position and think about the fact that our residents also have limited parking," said Hungtingon Beach Officer Angela Bennett. She added that while it may be challenging, officers will be enforcing parking violations.

Newport Beach also saw large crowds. Area lifeguards estimate up to 40,000 people were on the beach on Friday - double what they saw the day before.



Tens of thousands flocked to Orange County beaches that are still open during the coronavirus pandemic as the hot weather settled over the region.






Earlier this week, the county Board of Supervisors voted to keep some beaches and outdoor areas open, though parking lots would remain closed.


Meanwhile in neighboring Los Angeles County, beaches remain closed and officials are asking residents to avoid traveling to other counties with less stringent stay-at-home orders, such as Ventura County.

SoCal heat wave: What's open, what's closed this weekend amid coronavirus pandemic


With a heat wave hitting SoCal this weekend, here's a look at what outdoor activities are open or closed in different cities during the coronavirus pandemic.







Here's a breakdown of what beaches are currently open in Orange County as of Friday:

Huntington Beach: Lots, metered parking and pier closed


Newport Beach: The Wedge and surrounding area, parking lots, piers, Oceanfront Boardwalk, Balboa Island Bayfront Walkway closed
Laguna Beach: Closed
Dana Point: Parking lots closed
San Clemente, city: Open starting Saturday 4/25 at 6 a.m. For active use only, no gathering in groups of 10 or more, no settling in place
State Beaches: Parking closed, San Clemente State Beach closed completely

# of cases start to spike in 6 days, # deaths start to spike in 10 days

[mezmurized2]

April 24 ABC News poll and Ipsos...
Source link at bottom

• 72% believe moving too quickly to loosen the stay-at-home orders is a greater threat to the country than moving too slowly
• 86% think social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible policies
• only 14% of Americans think stay-at-home orders constrict personal liberty
• 80% say they are unlikely to go out to public places that are likely to draw crowds.
• 82% of Republicans align with the view that social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible, life-saving actions

They opened business in Georgia yesterday and almost everyone stayed home. People will not get out of their houses to go to open business when the President of the US has not stepped out of the White House in 6 weeks.

-------

Georgia is the canary in the coal-mine now.....We'll see.
I'm hoping for the best - because I don't want anymore needless deaths.

[Mike Huntertz]

Yup, we'll know in a week.

-------

Georgia is the canary in the coal-mine now.....We'll see.
I'm hoping for the best - because I don't want anymore needless deaths.

[SBR_Guest_Pro]

sounds like a good poll to me

[lakerboy]

They opened business in Georgia yesterday and almost everyone stayed home. People will not get out of their houses to go to open business when the President of the US has not stepped out of the White House in 6 weeks.

Trump went to Virginia once didn't he?

[RudyRuetigger]

Pauly poker thanks

i said this a couple days ago


why is he on this account???

[RudyRuetigger]

Trump went to Virginia once didn't he?

he saw the boat off and dems criticized him for not staying home

now pavy wants to say he doesnt leave

what a clown

georgia will lead the way

[SBR_Guest_Pro]

i'm ready to go to a bar, play some pool with bar flys, eat pretzels out of a shared bowl. get me out of the house!

[mcaulay777]

Look even a slow opening does not mean you have to go.If you are scared stay home no one is forcing you to go to the salon or gym or las vegas if it is open.For me the second things begin to open im there.I have said over and over I hope people are scared that means less traffic and people for me to deal with.