D. Howard over Lebron.

UntilTheNDofTimE · 01-20-09, 12:31 AM

not completely sold but its very evident that it is very close, if the question is who would u rather have. id take Howard to the house, but who is better as a individual player, that's still close.

tullamore · 01-20-09, 12:36 AM

I agree howard is dominate player, but in order to win a NBA championship it is all about guard play. I am not sold on the Magic guard yet.

Panic · 01-20-09, 12:39 AM

The Magic have beat the Lakers, Spurs, and Hornets(all the power houses from the West)..in this swing that they are on. Lets see if the Cavs win tonight. I'll take Howard over LeBron to build my team around.

Chi_archie · 01-20-09, 12:39 AM

If I'm building a team I'd take Howard first...

not so much because he is a better straight up player, but his athleticism at his position makes him MORE better at his position then Lebron is compared to others at HIS position.

Howard presents sooo many mismatches with his size and agility...he's only gonna get better

bigboydan · 01-20-09, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

If I'm building a team I'd take Howard first...

Not me sir.

tullamore · 01-20-09, 12:48 AM

The thing with big men now a days is that there are so few elite, dominating big guys. You may be better off starting a team with Howard, and then settling for a 2nd tier guard, then getting a 1st tier guard(Kobe, Lebron) because there were aren't any 2nd tier big men. We will see how the Magic do in the playoffs, Howard still needs to improve his FT shooting because the better teams will force him to the line. Also the ball will be in Nelson or Lewis hand down the stretch, can they go head to head with Pierce and Lebron, if they can then you will see a Lakers Magic final.

Chi_archie · 01-20-09, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

The thing with big men now a days is that there are so few elite, dominating big guys. You may be better off starting a team with Howard, and then settling for a 2nd tier guard, then getting a 1st tier guard(Kobe, Lebron) because there were aren't any 2nd tier big men. We will see how the Magic do in the playoffs, Howard still needs to improve his FT shooting because the better teams will force him to the line. Also the ball will be in Nelson or Lewis hand down the stretch, can they go head to head with Pierce and Lebron, if they can then you will see a Lakers Magic final.

exactly what i'm saying..... Dwight is rare because of his positon and how much potential he has there... you could get Gaurds and forwards as a step below Lebron, but if you have Howard to build around it will still be an advantage....

a good big man is hard to find..

Panic · 01-20-09, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

The thing with big men now a days is that there are so few elite, dominating big guys. You may be better off starting a team with Howard, and then settling for a 2nd tier guard, then getting a 1st tier guard(Kobe, Lebron) because there were aren't any 2nd tier big men. We will see how the Magic do in the playoffs, Howard still needs to improve his FT shooting because the better teams will force him to the line. Also the ball will be in Nelson or Lewis hand down the stretch, can they go head to head with Pierce and Lebron, if they can then you will see a Lakers Magic final.

Tull- how good was Shaq at the line in his career? You are correct as far as big men go. When you get the special guys like Duncan, Malone, Shaq,.....Howard. They are the guys to build around. They will bring you to the promise land.

tullamore · 01-20-09, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Panic

Tull- how good was Shaq at the line in his career? You are correct as far as big men go. When you get the special guys like Duncan, Malone, Shaq,.....Howard. They are the guys to build around. They will bring you to the promise land.

Shaq wasn't great at the line, but when he won his titles the ball was either in Kobe or d-wades hands down the stretch. Shaq was a dominating player, as is Howard, but they need people to get them the ball unlike Lebron.

Panic · 01-20-09, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

Shaq wasn't great at the line, but when he won his titles the ball was either in Kobe or d-wades hands down the stretch. Shaq was a dominating player, as is Howard, but they need people to get them the ball unlike Lebron.

You're kidding right? Shaq won all 3 MVP titles in the Lakers Finals. The man averaged over 30 points and 15 rebounds. Kobe was nowhere near that. Shaq was the baddest man on the planet in his prime.

bigboydan · 01-20-09, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by Panic

You're kidding right? Shaq won all 3 MVP titles in the Lakers Finals. The man averaged over 30 points and 15 rebounds. Kobe was nowhere near that. Shaq was the baddest man on the planet in his prime.

That's because the entire offense was built around Shaq, sir.

Panic · 01-20-09, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by bigboydan

That's because the entire offense was built around Shaq, sir.

And look what he did, sir. Let me know when Kobe wins 3 titles in a row. The offense has been built around him since Shaq left.

Kingctb27 · 01-20-09, 01:00 AM

Yeah, all guards step forward and average 27-7-7 thru their first few years straight out of HS.

Foolish.

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by Kingctb27

Yeah, all guards step forward and average 27-7-7 thru their first few years straight out of HS.

Foolish.

Tracy McGrady. Next.

bigboydan · 01-20-09, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by Panic

And look what he did, sir. Let me know when Kobe wins 3 titles in a row. The offense has been built around him since Shaq left.

Ok... and you let me know when Howard even makes it to an NBA finals like Kobe did last year with an offense that was built around him, sir.

Chi_archie · 01-20-09, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Kingctb27

Yeah, all guards step forward and average 27-7-7 thru their first few years straight out of HS.

Foolish.

you missed the point

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by bigboydan

Ok... and you let me know when Howard even makes it to an NBA finals like Kobe did last year with an offense that was built around him, sir.

Will do. And when he does it this year. What will you say then?

Kingctb27 · 01-20-09, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Panic

And look what he did, sir. Let me know when Kobe wins 3 titles in a row. The offense has been built around him since Shaq left.

Dwight Howard is not shaq my friend. Ask any GM who they would take and they would scoff at your assumption. There hasn't been a player like LeBron in the league in some time. Great passer, great defender, and is 6'8.

Your assumption that the big man always wins out is untrue. The more important indicator is FG%. Go back and look at MJ.

tullamore · 01-20-09, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Panic

Tracy McGrady. Next.

McGrady's stats sucked in Toronto, it was until he went to Orlando that he became an allstar.

Kingctb27 · 01-20-09, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Panic

Tracy McGrady. Next.

Yes, because T-Mac has averaged 7 rebounds and 7 assists over a full season.

Next.

bigboydan · 01-20-09, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

McGrady's stats sucked in Toronto, it was until he went to Orlando that he became an allstar.

Lets not forget his back problems when he was there too sir.

Kingctb27 · 01-20-09, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Panic

Will do. And when he does it this year. What will you say then?

tullamore · 01-20-09, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Panic

You're kidding right? Shaq won all 3 MVP titles in the Lakers Finals. The man averaged over 30 points and 15 rebounds. Kobe was nowhere near that. Shaq was the baddest man on the planet in his prime.

I am not saying Shaq wasn't dominating. I just saying when games are on the lines it is easier for elite guards to take over and control the tempo of the game.

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

McGrady's stats sucked in Toronto, it was until he went to Orlando that he became an allstar.

You are correct, tull. But look at Kobes first 3 years stats.

tullamore · 01-20-09, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by bigboydan

Lets not forget his back problems when he was there too sir.

Thats fair, but Mcgrady did have a period of adjustment into the league, unlike Lebton.

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Kingctb27

Thats all you got?

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Kingctb27

Dwight Howard is not shaq my friend. Ask any GM who they would take and they would scoff at your assumption. There hasn't been a player like LeBron in the league in some time. Great passer, great defender, and is 6'8.

Your assumption that the big man always wins out is untrue. The more important indicator is FG%. Go back and look at MJ.

Please tell me you're kidding. You will look like an idiot if not.

tullamore · 01-20-09, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Kingctb27

Dwight Howard is not shaq my friend. Ask any GM who they would take and they would scoff at your assumption. There hasn't been a player like LeBron in the league in some time. Great passer, great defender, and is 6'8.

Your assumption that the big man always wins out is untrue. The more important indicator is FG%. Go back and look at MJ.

I would argue there are more players similar to Lebron, (Kobe, Pierce) than there are players similar to Howard currently in the league, but his doesn't necessarily mean I would take Howard over Lebron.

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

I would argue there are more players similar to Lebron, (Kobe, Pierce) than there are players similar to Howard currently in the league, but his doesn't necessarily mean I would take Howard over Lebron.

Where his argument is flawed is FG %. He says no big man had FG% like Jordan. That makes me laugh. Shaq had the best in the league because he was under the basket and would just dunk the ball. Dominant big men.

Here you go:

Jordan's FG% for his career was .497.
Shaq's for his career is .581.

Get it?

tullamore · 01-20-09, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Panic

Where his argument is flawed is FG %. He says no big man had FG% like Jordan. That makes me laugh. Shaq had the best in the league because he was under the basket and would just dunk the ball. Dominant big men.

Here you go:

Jordan's FG% for his career was .497.
Shaq's for his career is .593.

Get it?

I have no stats to back this up because I am to lazy to look them, but big men normally have a higher FG% due to taking less shots and all the putbacks they get off of offensive rebounds.

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

I have no stats to back this up because I am to lazy to look them, but big men normally have a higher FG% due to taking less shots and all the putbacks they get off of offensive rebounds.

You are correct, sir.

Chi_archie · 01-20-09, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by tullamore

I have no stats to back this up because I am to lazy to look them, but big men normally have a higher FG% due to taking less shots and all the putbacks they get off of offensive rebounds.

well which is it? fg % is a better indicator and look at MJ or not?

tullamore · 01-20-09, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

well which is it? fg % is a better indicator and look at MJ or not?

I am not the one who said to look at MJ.

Panic · 01-20-09, 01:25 AM

CHI- me and you agree. I would take Howard right now to build a team around rather than LeBron.