Who is the best all around Center fielder in baseball right now?

Chi_archie · 07-09-13, 06:34 PM

going by stats this year.

I'd agree its between Gomez and Trout.

but what about the Carlos Gomez from 2007-2012

6 years and almost 2000 abs and all the sudden this stud appears?

I'm skeptical

Louisvillekid1 · 07-09-13, 06:35 PM

Bcatswin · 07-09-13, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

going by stats this year.

I'd agree its between Gomez and Trout.

but what about the Carlos Gomez from 2007-2012

6 years and almost 2000 abs and all the sudden this stud appears?

I'm skeptical

Me to, guy has done a complete turn around. 1 hit wonder? Could be, but right now i say he is the best.

Bcatswin · 07-09-13, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Louisvillekid1

Gomez highest WAR in MLB, Cutch 6th.

InTheDrink · 07-09-13, 06:40 PM

what happened to jack ellsbury's power?

Chi_archie · 07-09-13, 06:40 PM

Cutch has all the tools, but he is underachieving.

hell Cutch is close to not being the best player in his own outfield.

in 2014 he might be the 3rd best player in his outfield.

its time for the dood to step up and carry this team like the leader he should be.

I got 6 CF-ers ahead of Cutch right now

Big Bear · 07-09-13, 06:43 PM

cutch .

Bcatswin · 07-09-13, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

Cutch has all the tools, but he is underachieving.

hell Cutch is close to not being the best player in his own outfield.

in 2014 he might be the 3rd best player in his outfield.

its time for the dood to step up and carry this team like the leader he should be.

I got 6 CF-ers ahead of Cutch right now

Totally agree should be the best hands down with all his tools.

opie1988 · 07-09-13, 07:15 PM

I'd go with Craig Gentry, with Leonys Martin a close 2nd.

LT Profits · 07-09-13, 07:19 PM

Big Bear · 07-09-13, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

Cutch has all the tools, but he is underachieving.

hell Cutch is close to not being the best player in his own outfield.

in 2014 he might be the 3rd best player in his outfield.

its time for the dood to step up and carry this team like the leader he should be.

I got 6 CF-ers ahead of Cutch right now

Bro ...

did somebody piss in your corn flakes???

Cutch is underachieving LMAO

dont be so pestimistic pal

LT Profits · 07-09-13, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Bcatswin

Gomez highest WAR in MLB,

Trout passed him...barely. 5.1 to 5.0. And McCutchen is third among CFs.

Chi_archie · 07-09-13, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Big Bear

Bro ...

did somebody piss in your corn flakes???

Cutch is underachieving LMAO

dont be so pestimistic pal

pessimistic or realistic?

is he achieving better results or worse results as last year?

Bcatswin · 07-09-13, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Trout passed him...barely. 5.1 to 5.0. And McCutchen is third among CFs.

NL WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT		WAR
Carlos Gomez	1. Carlos Gomez, MIL	5.5
2. David Wright, NYM	4.9
3. Paul Goldschmidt, ARI	4.6
4. Andrew McCutchen, PIT	4.5
5. Carlos Gonzalez, COL	4.3
Complete Leaders

Resources

AL WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT		WAR
Miguel Cabrera	1. Miguel Cabrera, DET	5.0
1. Manny Machado, BAL	5.0
3. Robinson Cano, NYY	4.4
4. Dustin Pedroia, BOS	4.2
5. Chris Davis, BAL	4.1
Complete Leaders

Trout not even in top 5 in AL, 13th in MLB http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/WARBR

ChalkyDog · 07-09-13, 08:24 PM

Cody Ross.

Edit: I read the question backwards. Disregard.

InTheDrink · 07-09-13, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Trout passed him...barely. 5.1 to 5.0. And McCutchen is third among CFs.

thats offensive war

and if anyone claims that defensive war is accurately measurable then theyre full of shit

nvrlose37 · 07-09-13, 09:23 PM

If Carlos Gonzalez played CF anymore itd be him but since they leave him in left nvm

petey5 · 07-09-13, 09:43 PM

I'd go 1. Trout 2. McCutchen 3. Gomez

Bcatswin · 07-09-13, 10:12 PM

Gomez has brought 4 HR's back in the park this year, most in MLB just saying.

MoneyLineDawg · 07-09-13, 10:37 PM

I would take McCutchen if starting a team

Have him and Gomez on my fantasy team though so I like em both

Chi_archie · 07-09-13, 11:15 PM

cutch on pace for 16 HR's about half of his 31 last year

he should get hot, but I see him ending up with 21-23

keyboarding · 07-10-13, 04:02 AM

Too many stat nerds in this thread.

Answer the question as if we're talking post-season baseball. No one is taking Gomez when it counts.

LT Profits · 07-10-13, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Bcatswin

NL WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT		WAR
Carlos Gomez	1. Carlos Gomez, MIL	5.5
2. David Wright, NYM	4.9
3. Paul Goldschmidt, ARI	4.6
4. Andrew McCutchen, PIT	4.5
5. Carlos Gonzalez, COL	4.3
Complete Leaders

Resources

AL WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT		WAR
Miguel Cabrera	1. Miguel Cabrera, DET	5.0
1. Manny Machado, BAL	5.0
3. Robinson Cano, NYY	4.4
4. Dustin Pedroia, BOS	4.2
5. Chris Davis, BAL	4.1
Complete Leaders

Trout not even in top 5 in AL, 13th in MLB http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/WARBR

That looks like ESPN, so I wouldn't put as much weight on it than fangraphs. And as of right now after games of Tuesday:

Code:

#	Name                 	Team	G	PA	H	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	wRC+	Fld	BsR	WAR
1	Mike Trout          	Angels	88	409	112	15	61	57	20	11.0 %	16.9 %	.237	.351	.315	.394	.552	.403	161	0.3	6.0	5.1
2	Carlos Gomez     	Brewers	84	341	97	13	49	41	20	4.1 %	22.6 %	.242	.365	.305	.346	.547	.379	143	13.9	3.8	4.9
3	Andrew McCutchen	Pirates	86	371	99	9	53	46	18	9.2 %	14.0 %	.164	.332	.300	.372	.464	.360	133	6.7	3.8	3.9

LT Profits · 07-10-13, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by InTheDrink

thats offensive war

and if anyone claims that defensive war is accurately measurable then theyre full of shit

As you see in Post #24, it DOES include defense. If it did not, Trout's lead would be bigger.

LT Profits · 07-10-13, 06:01 AM

I should have clarified Post 24 is CF only. Cabrera leads all of baseball (5.8) with Trout second and Gomez third. McCutchen is 12th.

InTheDrink · 07-10-13, 07:45 AM

and there again is why WAR is a bullshit stat...because no one can agree what it is and that pretty much proves it's a subjective "stat"

baseball reference shows trout #2 in offensive war and out of the top 10 in overall war

2013 Major League Baseball Batting Leaders | Baseball-Reference.com

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-batting-leaders.shtml

Check out the latest list of all the MLB Batting Leaders for the 2013 Season and more on Baseball-Reference.com

EmpireMaker · 07-10-13, 07:50 AM

1) Gomez
2) Trout

LT Profits · 07-10-13, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by InTheDrink

and there again is why WAR is a bullshit stat...because no one can agree what it is and that pretty much proves it's a subjective "stat"

baseball reference shows trout #2 in offensive war and out of the top 10 in overall war

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

But wasn't fangraphs the site that invented WAR (or at least the first to make it public)? And also the fact that it is a site dedicated to advanced stats has me inclined to trust their version of WAR, while other sites have tweaked the formula, meaning those sites should in reality be using a different name than "WAR".

brooks85 · 07-10-13, 08:37 AM

it's amusing to me that I bet this sport and have been doing well past years but don't even know who those guys are, what team they play for and I had to check what that stat ABs means. Goes to show you line movement is half of it, now only if I could bring myself to watch a game.

konck · 07-10-13, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by brooks85

it's amusing to me that I bet this sport and have been doing well past years but don't even know who those guys are, what team they play for and I had to check what that stat ABs means. Goes to show you line movement is half of it, now only if I could bring myself to watch a game.

How can u bet with out ever watching a pitcher

I agree with line movement but you gotta know what a guy throws

konck · 07-10-13, 09:02 AM

Gomez has never batted over 260 in a year I think you would have to wait before givng him any thought. Does 1/2 yr make you the best

brooks85 · 07-10-13, 10:44 AM

I agree but just seems like too much work now. I'm not even sure what stats to handicap against each other and not watching baseball for 20+ years like I have other sports doesn't help.

InTheDrink · 07-10-13, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by LT Profits

But wasn't fangraphs the site that invented WAR (or at least the first to make it public)? And also the fact that it is a site dedicated to advanced stats has me inclined to trust their version of WAR, while other sites have tweaked the formula, meaning those sites should in reality be using a different name than "WAR".

baseball reference has plenty of advanced stats so assuming they did tweak it, i dont know how you can hold one as being better than the other...tweaking generally is done to improve something

ive always maintained that war is a reverse engineered formula to sort past statistics to deliver a favorable outcome of what players/seasons are better than others....it's just created to validate an opinion even if the creator is trying to be as objective as possible...ESPECIALLY when it includes defense in the calculations

LT Profits · 07-10-13, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by InTheDrink

baseball reference has plenty of advanced stats so assuming they did tweak it, i dont know how you can hold one as being better than the other...tweaking generally is done to improve something

ive always maintained that war is a reverse engineered formula to sort past statistics to deliver a favorable outcome of what players/seasons are better than others....it's just created to validate an opinion even if the creator is trying to be as objective as possible...ESPECIALLY when it includes defense in the calculations

I have no problem with ignoring WAR and just using xFIP for pitchers and wRC+ for offense. If you do that, top three are still Trout (161), Gomez (143) and McCutchen (133). And wRC+ ignores defense.