Are There Any Books That List Goaltenders in Hockey Like Pitchers in Baseball?

[VegasDave]

Tonight's Kings game was a perfect example.

If I had bet Phoenix (which I would have) under the false pretense that Labarbera was in net, the minute I saw Jonathan Quick in goal I would have been livid. He is a much more competent goalie, and my -150 odds which were a good value with LaBarbera in net was now grossly overpriced.

In baseball this can be avoided. Its listed as...

Houston Astros
Roy Oswalt (Must Start)
New York Yankees
Phil Hughes (Must Start)

I can bet either action or listed pitchers must start. If the Yankees decide not to go with their 5th starter and instead start CC Sabathia on short rest, my bet becomes void (thank God) if I bet "Listed Pitchers Must Start"

Do any books have "Listed goalies must start" option?

[pat venditto]

Vegas dave you went all in pal you didnt make it.

[rm18]

dave take Chargers win or tie a quarter tomorrow to win a dollar so you can get the first win of your career

[VegasDave]

Congrats on 6000 posts Pat.

I'm all for your mindless drivel, but this is actually a legitimate question.

[AMBlai01]

Never going to happen because starting goalies is a lot different than starting pitchers. Some of the coaches will not announce who their starter is in goal until game time as a bit of gamesmanship. You just have to keep up on knowledge and who is reported to be in goal.

Dave...no offense but I don't know where you are getting your info from because I had Quick in goal all day long. Nothing I read reported that anyone else was ever going to take the net.

[onthewhat]

dave thanks for the lesson on betting action or listed

no one knew what that meant

[VegasDave]

Never going to happen because starting goalies is a lot different than starting pitchers. Some of the coaches will not announce who their starter is in goal until game time as a bit of gamesmanship. You just have to keep up on knowledge and who is reported to be in goal.

Dave...no offense but I don't know where you are getting your info from because I had Quick in goal all day long. Nothing I read reported that anyone else was ever going to take the net.

Upon further review it was clear he'd be starting... I worked an overnight where I was training someone today and came home and was exhausted and went straight to sleep. The listed goalies according to SBR Odds was LaBarbera/Tellqvist and earlier this week, as I said, Murray said he'd split the two games.

But had I been awake and reading I would have double checked before betting it and made absolutely sure LaBarbera was starting, and I believe Murray said he has lost confident in Jason and so he was going with Quick tonight.

It was easily accessible information if you looked for it, but its still a relevant question.

[Nicky Santoro]

stop making excuses dave.. you lost, you lost.. goalies are not as important as listed pitchers, not even close.. it doesn't affect the line that much. most NHL goalies have a save pct between .900 and .930.... which means that they will save 90 to 93% of shots.. so over 30 shots, it would hardly make any difference.. these goalies are all great.. if they were bad, they would not be in nhl.

[VegasDave]

stop making excuses dave.. you lost, you lost.. goalies are not as important as listed pitchers, not even close.. it doesn't affect the line that much. most NHL goalies have a save pct between .900 and .930.... which means that they will save 90 to 93% of shots.. so over 30 shots, it would hardly make any difference.. these goalies are all great.. if they were bad, they would not be in nhl.

Nicky coming from a hockey person this is a pretty ridiculous assertion.

[VegasDave]

dave thanks for the lesson on betting action or listed

no one knew what that meant

Sorry, I'm so used to needing to explain all this stuff to girlfriend/family/etc I forget I'm on a gambling board sometimes

[AMBlai01]

Upon further review it was clear he'd be starting... I worked an overnight where I was training someone today and came home and was exhausted and went straight to sleep. The listed goalies according to SBR Odds was LaBarbera/Tellqvist and earlier this week, as I said, Murray said he'd split the two games.

But had I been awake and reading I would have double checked before betting it and made absolutely sure LaBarbera was starting, and I believe Murray said he has lost confident in Jason and so he was going with Quick tonight.

It was easily accessible information if you looked for it, but its still a relevant question.

Dave you are making excuses....and why would you EVER use SBR Odds for who will start in goal. I would not use that as a reliable source. Try using local sources...they are the most accurate for information like this. People that watch the practices, see who is coming off the ice first and talk to the coaches directly. It would not have been that hard for you to know who was starting in goal...sorry but your excuse doesn't fly here....

[VegasDave]

I'm not making excuses, there is no excuse. I just assumed LaBarbera was starting because I didn't think they'd start a rookie goaltender back to back nights. It was an assumption and information that Quick was starting was readily available, I just didn't look for it. Thats on me.

But it still got me to thinking it would be cool if such a betting option existed.

[InTheHole]

Phoenix just didn't perform as expected. No excuse for that score...

[Arilou]

I agree, they should list the goalies. However, there is massive inertia towards doing things the same way as everyone else. Otherwise, your lines become distinct from everyone else's and can no longer be copied or compared easily. As a bookie, do you want to handicap the probability for each goalie for every game and know the impact of each change on the line so you can know what the must-start line should be? Otherwise, some wise guy is going to do that math for you, and realize that you are effectively posting a scalp without knowing it. If everyone did it together then that would be great, but we are stuck with it.

[pavyracer]

The goalies are chosen minutes before the games start. How will they list them ahead of time?

[losturmarbles]

like nicky already said, the goalie really isnt that important, certainly not to the extent of a starting pitcher.
the only thing that matters to me in a starting goalie is maybe a goalie's record against a particular team or maybe their record in OT/SO. if a goalie is really bad in shootouts, but i like their team to win, it may be worth taking them in regulation only to get a better price.
other than that, knowing how a team's defense is playing is a lot more important than knowing what goalie is in net.
if you do want to know who is starting, www.goaliepost.com is normally pretty solid.

[Nicky Santoro]

loster,

don't listen to dave.. he's still an amateur at betting hockey.. he has a lot of learning to do. he's looking for an excuse as to why he was wrong on this game. davey, just to let you know.. your 3 LA goalies have exact same save pct.. they are all within decimal pts of each other.. all 3 at exactly 90%... also, all 3 goalies have GAA of right near 2.5... davey, today's NHL goalies are all great.. there is hardly any difference at all.. this is not the 1970's where there are shit goalies and great goalies..all goalies are great today..

davey, i wonder if this thread would have existed had your team won 4-0.. would you be here complaining still??

[VegasDave]

In most cases, you and Nicky are both right.

Jason Labarbera, however, will not be an NHL goaltender in 2010, that is a guarantee. 2009 is iffy.

He is 5 - 8 - 4 (4 OT losses in 4 tries, and in penalty shots/shootouts he has given up 7 goals in 7 attempts).

When Labarbera doesn't start, the Kings are 10 - 7 - 2.

Terry Murray has finally come to realize the guy is garbage, he'll likely be waived soon.

The point is, I still would have expected Phoenix to win tonight. But I believe the -150 to -160 line was set on the impression that Labarbera was starting, and it had some value if he were. With Quick in, -150 was too pricey IMO.

[VegasDave]

loster,

don't listen to dave.. he's still an amateur at betting hockey.. he has a lot of learning to do. he's looking for an excuse as to why he was wrong on this game. davey, just to let you know.. your 3 LA goalies have exact same save pct.. they are all within decimal pts of each other.. all 3 at exactly 90%... also, all 3 goalies have GAA of right near 2.5... davey, today's NHL goalies are all great.. there is hardly any difference at all.. this is not the 1970's where there are shit goalies and great goalies..all goalies are great today..

davey, i wonder if this thread would have existed had your team won 4-0.. would you be here complaining still??

Numbers do not always tell the story Nicky. You should know this better than anyone.

I'm not an amateur in betting hockey. Don't talk down to me on hockey, especially when it comes to the Kings.

I'll bet you that Jason Labarbera, the goalie who you say is "great because all goalies are great today", will not be in the NHL in the 2010-2011 season. Not even as a backup. He will be completely gone from the NHL.

[dcbt]

I've relied on hockeyinformer.com in years past when I used to bet hockey...