Leinart will be alot better pro than Young

SBR_John · 02-24-06, 05:56 PM

i'm thinking Leinart will be a much better pro QB than Vince Young will be.

Hmm...maybe. Leinart has my total respect. I would compare him to Palmer, he could be an Aikman type by year 3 or 4.

Young is simply a beast with much more upside. But he is not the passer that Leinart is and I doubt he ever will be. Of course, there are not many QB's that can out run the defense's entire secondary so we shall see.

isetcap · 02-24-06, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Hmm...maybe. Leinart has my total respect. I would compare him to Palmer, he could be an Aikman type by year 3 or 4.

Young is simply a beast with much more upside. But he is not the passer that Leinart is and I doubt he ever will be. Of course, there are not many QB's that can out run the defense's entire secondary so we shall see.

I do expect that Leinert will be the better quarterback at the next level but I certainly don't think he will be anything special. His arm is not comparable to Aikman or Palmer and that will significantly limit him in the NFL.

As for Mr. Young, he is not capable of outrunning secondaries in the NFL. He is a poor man's Mike Vick at best, and right now I wouldn't say Mike Vick is tearing up the big league.

BuddyBear · 02-24-06, 06:36 PM

Vince Young is a joke with all do respect SBR John...he'll be lucky to be half as good as Michael Vick and we all know how overrated Vick is.

it doesn't take half a brain to realize that Leinart will be the better pro.

SBR_John · 02-24-06, 07:08 PM

Young is coming out a year early, I liken him to Steve McNair maybe better if he can stay healthy.

If I had to bet I'd say Leinart would be better but Vince has a stronger arm and is bigger and faster. He may end up playing wide receiver or safety(he was recruited as a safety/WR) and yes, he really will be faster than a lot of secondaries. I'm thinking you folks up north might be missing some Texas football these days

. He didnt win the hiesman and yea he played on the team that didnt have a chance(but somehow won anyway) but anyway you guys are in for a treat on Sundays especially if you are a Titan fan

.

isetcap · 02-24-06, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

Vince Young is a joke with all do respect SBR John...he'll be lucky to be half as good as Michael Vick and we all know how overrated Vick is.

it doesn't take half a brain to realize that Leinart will be the better pro.

Mike Vick won the SBR MOP Award even though I had it all set up for the honor to go to Eli Manning.

Winston Smith · 02-24-06, 07:34 PM

I think that success in the NFL for QBs is less a function of raw talent and more dependent on how he is used.

Mike Vick could very well be a great quarterback, but we don't know because the coaches keep trying to make him Joe Montana. Get over it, he's not that kind of player. But coaches refuse to build the system around the talent, and instead attempt to mold the player into the existing system. Square-peg-round-hole kind of thing.

If Vince is placed in a position to utilize his existing talents rather than his wished-for skills, he can be as successful as Leinart. If he gets stuck with a team that wants to make him Dan Marino, forget it.

bigboydan · 02-24-06, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Young is coming out a year early, I liken him to Steve McNair maybe better if he can stay healthy.

If I had to bet I'd say Leinart would be better but Vince has a stronger arm and is bigger and faster. He may end up playing wide receiver or safety(he was recruited as a safety/WR) and yes, he really will be faster than a lot of secondaries. I'm thinking you folks up north might be missing some Texas football these days

. He didnt win the hiesman and yea he played on the team that didnt have a chance(but somehow won anyway) but anyway you guys are in for a treat on Sundays especially if you are a Titan fan

.

John, your thinking like a homer here.

vince young had one great game. now granted it was a very high profile game, against the best team this year in college football. i think the media hype on him is more than it really should be.

SBR_John · 02-24-06, 07:43 PM

Did you see any other games like maybe the Rose Bowl in 05? He did a lot more than "1 good game". Yea, I'm a homer on Texas footbal awe-right...

bigboydan · 02-24-06, 07:46 PM

i seen it john...

you can not sit there and tell me that if he didn't have 450+ yards against USC in that rose bowl game this past year, he would be considerd a top 5 pick though. odds are he would have played at texas next year.

isetcap · 02-24-06, 07:47 PM

There's a report verified by multiple sources coming out of the NFL combines that Vince has taken well to his new nickname; Darko.

SBR_John · 02-24-06, 07:59 PM

Bigboy, I just wished he would come back for his senior year. I saw him play 3 years ago as a freshman when he kept trying to snap the ball from under the guard. He's come around. His passing is much improved but not NFL caliber yet...but still improving.

But at 6-5 and 240 and can run like a deer and throw the ball 80 yards all I'm saying is there is a whoooole lot of upside. He may not be anything or he could be the real deal. We shall see.

bigboydan · 02-24-06, 08:08 PM

I don't question his raw ability at all. he could have a great combine workout, and be drafted higher than Leinart. all i'm saying here is that i feel that Leinart will have a better overall career in the NFL.

bigboydan · 02-24-06, 10:40 PM

heres a perty good read on vince young that you might find interesting john.

The great unknown?

INDIANAPOLIS – Despite the national championship and the ensuing gushing only seven weeks ago, Vince Young apparently still has plenty of selling to do in NFL circles.

A poll of a handful of coaches and personnel men at the NFL scouting combine on Thursday revealed plenty of uncertainty about the Texas quarterback. Questions ranged from the garden variety (throwing motion, ability to fit him into an offense, etc.) to concerns centered on risk (Does Young's unique talent override the financial and schematic gamble that will have to be taken by whoever drafts him in April?).

"You're probably going to hit a double every time with [USC quarterback Matt Leinart]. With [Young], you're going to strike out or hit a home run," said Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage, who rated Leinart as the safer pick at this point. "When you're talking about $40-, $50- and $60-million contracts, you might be better off taking the double. But there's always a team or two that's willing to take that chance.

"The same questions that [2005 No. 1 pick] Alex Smith had to answer last year are the same ones Vince Young is going to have to answer this year."

Among those questions are whether Young can operate primarily from under center rather than a shotgun set; whether he can be productive in a traditional offense rather than one that is suited to his current talents; and whether his sidearm throwing mechanics will hinder his ability to be an efficient passer.

"I've seen tapes on him and obviously he's a very good athlete," Tennessee Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow said of Young. "Until you get to know him better, you'd be crazy to make those kinds of statements [about where he ranks]. I don't know enough about him, … Not only what you see, you have to get a feel for him – what he understands, what he knows, what he doesn't know."

And those appear to be significant questions.

While workouts have the potential to change perceptions, the sense here was that Leinart – and in some cases, even Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler – rank ahead of Young on draft boards.

Excluding Savage and Chow, a poll of four personnel men and two offensive assistants (all from different teams) revealed a strong lean toward Leinart. Only one assistant thought Young was the best quarterback prospect in this draft. Two of the six thought both Leinart and Cutler ranked ahead of Young.

"If you think he's a pure athlete like Michael Vick, then how has that worked out?" said one personnel man. "Atlanta still hasn't figured out what he is, and they've had [five] years and two different coaching staffs working on it."

When told of Savage's comment that Young faces the same challenges Smith did coming out of Utah last season, the personnel man remained skeptical.

"Does [Smith] look like it's going to be an easy transition?" he said. "Not to say Alex Smith isn't going to work out, but you see they [the San Francisco 49ers] are going uphill with it."

Savage's thoughts were particularly interesting, considering the Browns aren't in the market for a quarterback and he has no reason to be elusive with his evaluation. Asked about Cutler, Savage added that the Vanderbilt product "has put himself in position to be either the second or third quarterback taken," seeming to indicate the possibility of Young dropping to third in the quarterback race.

"If you take a Vince Young, you take a Michael Vick, you take some of these [spread offense] players that are going to be coming through the ranks the next few years, you have to decide, 'Are you going to revamp and change everything and try to fit it to that quarterback?' or 'Are you going to try and put a round peg in a square hole?' " Savage said. "… That's the advantage Matt Leinart has. He's played in a pro-style system.

"With Vince Young, you see a handful of plays [in his college film] that really translate into an NFL game. You can watch 30 games of Vince Young if you want to, and you're going to come up with maybe four or five games worth of tape that really applies. Whereas Leinart, you can watch four games, and you're going to see four games of NFL-style offense."

That will be a significant reality in the coming weeks, considering the vacuum of workout information at the combine. Outside of Cutler, very little light is expected to be shed on the trio of QBs this week.

Only Cutler is expected to throw, and there continues to be a strong belief in league circles that the New York Jets are interested in taking him with the No. 4 overall pick. Jets head coach Eric Mangini refused to comment on any of the team's draft evaluations and general manager Mike Tannenbaum said it was too early for the Jets to form opinions about prospects.

"We're still in the data-collection stage of college scouting," Tannenbaum said.

For now, Young and Leinart only plan on throwing at their respective pro days – March 22 for Texas, and April 2 for USC.

SBR_John · 02-24-06, 11:02 PM

"You're probably going to hit a double every time with [USC quarterback Matt Leinart]. With [Young], you're going to strike out or hit a home run," said Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage

I totally agree with Savage.

Anyone want to bet a sure thing? I'll bet Young wins more starts over the next two NFL seasons than does Leinart(each must have 4+ starts to have action). Pinnacle can book the bet.

bigboydan · 02-24-06, 11:11 PM

i'm not going to make a bet like that right now John. lets see where both players go in the draft first.

Dark Horse · 02-25-06, 12:40 PM

Leinart better than Stevie? Will have to wait and see.

Vince hardly even registered with me. Media always create these overhyped stories (this one replaced the endless chatter about the Colts undefeated season). Fact is that USC had the game won, and gave it away. Vince was lucky that the Trojans defense went for his predictable move to his right every time. No way he gets away with that in the NFL. If he has a high voice now, wait until the big guys get in a few shots.

SBR_John · 02-25-06, 01:09 PM

Man you are sooo right Dark Horse..Vince ALWAYS runs to the right. If no one is left and 11 guys are right he will still run to the right.

I think we all agree Leinart is the better NFL QB. But what I'm saying is this kid is getting better every day and has God given talent that Leinart can only fantasize about.

I say Young is a winner with a unique blend of talent, leadership and football guts. I know he is a gamble but.... the upside justifys the gamble of a lottery pick imo.

Dark Horse · 02-25-06, 05:23 PM

The thing I like most about Young is that he's cool under pressure.

Thought about the final plays in the Rose Bowl quite a bit. Obviously, Carroll was gambling with that 4th down play (without Bush?!). When it didn't work, he had his nose open; a gambler can lose his discipline and make wild crazy bets after a few painful losses. Everything that happened after that was wild. Didn't call the right defensive play when it mattered. Then used up his final timeout when it didn't matter; this was when Texas was going for a 2 pt conversion. Trojans needed a FG anyway, so the timeout was wasted. With that timeout USC would, in my mind, have been able to get within FG range. They were moving up the field quickly. Instead they ran out of time...

The pressure got to Carroll, and Young kept his cool. That was the difference. I don't like QB's that run too much, because it takes away from the team concept. Vick and Culpepper are fun to watch, but they will never win a Superbowl. Young's coolness is much more important than his runs. It enabled him to pull out a miracle win over Ohio St early in the season as well. That is the same quality that sets Tom Brady apart.

bigboydan · 02-25-06, 05:55 PM

i truely think you guys are making this guy to be better than he really is.

isetcap · 02-25-06, 06:07 PM

In the immortal words of Chuck D...

Don't Believe the Hype.

Dark Horse · 02-25-06, 06:57 PM

I was just trying to say something nice about him.
Sounded pretty good huh?

To cover my a** in case he does make it.

SBR_John · 02-25-06, 10:52 PM

Yea lets see. I've been following college football a really long time. I've see Tommy Nobis play to Earl Cambell. And ok I'm bit partial to Texas players I admit. But you guys that don't get a chance to see Texas play except in a bowl have missed scouting a good one. Too bad he didnt come back and play in his senior year. I mean what exactly makes you think he wont be good in the NFL? Maybe the weak completion % of 65%? Maybe his 4.4 speed? Or maybe he is just too small at 6-5 and 240? Maybe his weak starting record of 32-3 with a top 5 finish and a national championship win against the greatest team ever? Yea....he's no good

Razz · 02-25-06, 10:59 PM

Look, Brodie Croyle will be better than either one. At least, that's what everyone seems to think around here.

bigboydan · 02-25-06, 11:54 PM

LO@Razz, thats classic

isetcap · 02-26-06, 02:10 AM

How often do we hear about how wonderful all these players' physical skills are and then ultimately realize the most important trait for a quarterback in the NFL, in fact I would say the foundation, is decision making. This is the trait that is least exposed in college football because players fall back on their superior physical skills. The real problem with a run-oriented quarterback coming out of college is that their decision process leads them to running which in the NFL leads to injury. I'm not convinced that Vince has the decision making skills necessary to be anything more than an experiment in the NFL.

SBR_John · 02-26-06, 02:17 PM

No doubt about it but even poor decisiom makers like Testaverde and McNair can get better and be a force. The Brady and Griese types come in with far less talent and seem to produce more. Even Elway was terrible at reading defenses for a while. We shall see said the blind man to his deaf dog

.

bigboydan · 03-25-06, 06:21 PM

just how far will vince young drop in the draft anyways. there have been alot of QB movement this offseason so far. the raiders even signed Brooks, so just how far will he slip i wonder.

SBR_John · 03-25-06, 07:17 PM

I admit I would be VERY hard pressed to take Vince with a top 3 pick. BUT...if you look at this draft there is not a lot after the 7-8 spot. So I would take a gamble at 7th unless I already had a good QB. I douubt he is there after the 9th,...highly doubt.

The Great One · 03-25-06, 07:33 PM

I wouldn't touch Vince Young on Day 1 of the draft. Do I really even need to explain why?

He's a black athletic quarterback that has no brains and just plans to outrun everyone. I'm so sick of explaining this, but black quarterbacks that run suck inh tyhe NFL. He can't even hit someone in stride on a pass unless they are 5 yards open and that happens once a season in the NFL

Vick, Brooks, Culpepper, McNabb, McWheelchair. Come on now, think. McNabb is ther only decent one and it took him about 7 years to figure it out. Not to mention, Youns career even if healthy is over at 30.

SBR_John · 03-25-06, 10:27 PM

Vick, Brooks, Culpepper, McNabb, McWheelchair

You dont think that list are 1st rounders? I agree Young will be probably in that group, about like McWheelchair-McNair.

bigboydan · 03-26-06, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by SBR_John

I admit I would be VERY hard pressed to take Vince with a top 3 pick. BUT...if you look at this draft there is not a lot after the 7-8 spot. So I would take a gamble at 7th unless I already had a good QB. I douubt he is there after the 9th,...highly doubt.

john, i'm hearing that jay culter will go before young. the earlier projections in some mock drafts have Arizona taking cutler with the 10 pick overall.

SBR_John · 03-26-06, 12:57 AM

Yea a lot of word jockeying. Sometimes guys like Randy Moss fall to the mid 20's so anything is possible. I'd be shocked if Young goes later than 9th and he could go 3rd or 4th. But I hope I'm wrong, maybe the Cowboys could scoop him up to team up with TO! Oh my...scramble for some SB futures!!

imgv94 · 03-26-06, 01:15 AM

IMO

I think he will be a big bust for the team that drafts him. I just can't see
him using that release with any success in the NFL.

maritime · 03-26-06, 01:44 AM

Anybody think we'll ever see a "new" position created in the NFL for these talented athletic college QB's who just aren't good enough when it comes down to it, to be consistent drop-back pocket passers that can win a big game. I have always thought it might be interesting for a team to take a Kordel Stewart, Randle-El, Seneca Wallace, or yes, even Mike Vick and play them instead as sort of what I would call a "pass-back." The team could have their traditional pocket passer, but in addition, coming out of the backfield would be this total question mark who could run, pass, or receive.