Manning: 49 tds in 15 games

[mofome]

and one possession. Brady can only tie the record in if the pats played the same way the colts did in an equally meaningless game.

they wont, and brady will have to record do to HC philosophies.

[idontlikerocks]

this may come to pass. however, when manning stopped playing in game 16, he already had the record at that time. if he needed 50 tds to break the former record, don't you think he would have played longer in that game 16??

[mofome]

this may come to pass. however, when manning stopped playing in game 16, he already had the record at that time. if he needed 50 tds to break the former record, don't you think he would have played longer in that game 16??

Manning and Dungy? i doubt it, i think they were all about the post season.


in 2004 mannings stats looked like this:
rating: 121.1
tds: 49 (15 games and 1 possession)
ypa 9.17
total yards: 4557


brady in 2007
rating: 117.2
tds: 48 (1 game left)
ypa: 8.30
total yards: 4450

so, if brady played the same amount as manning, then brady couldnt pass manning in tds, yards, ypa, or rating.

manning 2004 > brady 2007

[SBR Lou]

brady also played in some absolutely horrendous weather, and threw no TD's against the jets as a result of that, c'mon that's not typical of brady. he should have broken it already really. if that home game was in a dome like peyton he'd have thrown 4 more

[ShamsWoof10]

If the Pats played in a dome this year he would have CRUSHED IT!!!! The Colts are a terrible cold weather team..

Manning last year in the playoffs had ONE TD...and 6 INT'S I believe...

[bushy]

If the Pats played in a dome this year he would have CRUSHED IT!!!! The Colts are a terrible cold weather team..

Manning last year in the playoffs had ONE TD...and 6 INT'S I believe...

NE has become the '04/'05 Colts....great offense and questionable defense. I like the Colts chances a little more if they're playing in cold and wind in the rematch (if one occurs).

[pokernut9999]

NE has become the '04/'05 Colts....great offense and questionable defense. I like the Colts chances a little more if they're playing in cold and wind in the rematch (if one occurs).

You think the Pats have a questionable defense?
Name me one team that has given up fewer points this year.

I will give you a hint -------- none.

[TexansFan]

I believe you can run on the Pats defense. I would say a big reason why they have given up the fewest points is due to their offense. Their offense was getting out to such big leads it made the other team one dimensional. Look at the last few games the Pats have played. A good running team can move the ball on the Pats.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Jags beat the Pats if they play.

[mgcolby]

Manning of 2004 played 9 of his 15 games in a dome and all in good weather.

Brady in his 15 games has played in high winds in Baltimore, Sleet/Snow/Rain and high winds against the Jets.

Manning played a total of six games outdoors and only one of those six games were played outdoors during the months of November and December (Chicago Nov 21st, Weather 43 and partly cloudy). He did not play in one game affected by the weather.

Manning was on the sidelines for a total of 27:45 minutes during the first 15 games of the season and played a game in OT. The majority of that 16:15 came against Detroit. Brady has been on the sideline for 45:55 minutes in the first 15 games, that doesn't include the majority of the 2nd half against Miami back in October where he played for a total of 6:23 minutes. Does anyone disagree that Brady could have thrown at least one more TD in that extra 18:10 minutes? Heck you could even add in the extra 2:47 minutes Manning received for the overtime against SD. So that would give Brady a total of 20:57.

That means Brady has until the 9:03 mark of the 2nd quarter against the Giants to throw 49 TD's in the same amount of actual gametime as Manning. And he did that playing the final seven games of the season in the northeast, four at home and three on the road in Buffalo, Baltimore and New York.

Then you could add in other little tidbits like the Colts had a total of 10 rushing TD's for the entire season and the Patriots have 15 after 15 games.

Questions?

[ShamsWoof10]

Manning of 2004 played 9 of his 15 games in a dome and all in good weather.

Brady in his 15 games has played in high winds in Baltimore, Sleet/Snow/Rain and high winds against the Jets.

Manning played a total of six games outdoors and only one of those six games were played outdoors during the months of November and December (Chicago Nov 21st, Weather 43 and partly cloudy). He did not play in one game affected by the weather.

Manning was on the sidelines for a total of 27:45 minutes during the first 15 games of the season and played a game in OT. The majority of that 16:15 came against Detroit. Brady has been on the sideline for 45:55 minutes in the first 15 games, that doesn't include the majority of the 2nd half against Miami back in October where he played for a total of 6:23 minutes. Does anyone disagree that Brady could have thrown at least one more TD in that extra 18:10 minutes? Heck you could even add in the extra 2:47 minutes Manning received for the overtime against SD. So that would give Brady a total of 20:57.

That means Brady has until the 9:03 mark of the 2nd quarter against the Giants to throw 49 TD's in the same amount of actual gametime as Manning. And he did that playing the final seven games of the season in the northeast, four at home and three on the road in Buffalo, Baltimore and New York.

Then you could add in other little tidbits like the Colts had a total of 10 rushing TD's for the entire season and the Patriots have 15 after 15 games.

Questions?

NOPE!! WOW that's pretty f*ckin' good dude...

[B1GER1C828]

lol ya put brady in a dome and see wat happens im actually shocked some1 even made this thread so what hes saying is brady shouldnt b the record holder if he breaks it. alrite kool

[mgcolby]

Manning and Dungy? i doubt it, i think they were all about the post season.


in 2004 mannings stats looked like this:
rating: 121.1
tds: 49 (15 games and 1 possession)
ypa 9.17
total yards: 4557


brady in 2007
rating: 117.2
tds: 48 (1 game left)
ypa: 8.30
total yards: 4450

so, if brady played the same amount as manning, then brady could have and will most likely pass manning in tds, yards, ypa?, or rating?.

manning 2004 > brady 2007

I fixed your post for ya.

[outdrawed]

You think the Pats have a questionable defense?
Name me one team that has given up fewer points this year.

I will give you a hint -------- none.

The Pats have a decent defense, but it's not the number 1 defense despite giving up the fewest points.

[pokernut9999]

The Pats have a decent defense, but it's not the number 1 defense despite giving up the fewest points.

Most W and L's are decided by points as are bets. Let me know where yards are used or If and butts are used.

[mgcolby]

The Pats have a decent defense, but it's not the number 1 defense despite giving up the fewest points.

Is there a more important stat?

That Pats have historically (under Belichick) allowed teams to move the ball between the 20's. They do everything to keep the play in front of them and limit the big play. This incorporates two strategies:

1) By not giving up the big play the offense has to run more plays thus increasing the potential for an offensive mistake.

2) The field shortens inside the 30/20 allowing them to be more aggresive on defense, while simultaneously making the offense work within a box under pressure.

The strategy has worked well throughout his tenure, so New England may not ever lead the league in total yardage, rushing yards etc.. Since 2003 they have finished in the top 3 in Points allowed, with 2005 being the anomaly.

[outdrawed]

Most W and L's are decided by points as are bets. Let me know where yards are used or If and butts are used.

That's pretty irrelevant. The playoffs are decided by wins and losses but I'm not going to look at wins and losses to decide who the better team is.

Points is a fine way to judge a team, and for the most part has a direct correlation to a team's success, but it's not the only thing you can look at.

[outdrawed]

Is there a more important stat?

You mean like incorporating SOS and the like? Adjusting for weather and whatnot?

That Pats have historically (under Belichick) allowed teams to move the ball between the 20's. They do everything to keep the play in front of them and limit the big play. This incorporates two strategies:

1) By not giving up the big play the offense has to run more plays thus increasing the potential for an offensive mistake.

2) The field shortens inside the 30/20 allowing them to be more aggresive on defense, while simultaneously making the offense work within a box under pressure.

The strategy has worked well throughout his tenure, so New England may not ever lead the league in total yardage, rushing yards etc.. Since 2003 they have finished in the top 3 in Points allowed, with 2005 being the anomaly.

Decent post, and I'll agree with you to a point. I'm not saying yardage is the ultimatum for determining a team's ability either, just that you can't look strictly at points given up. The Ravens gave up 31 points in one quarter to the Steelers and it was mostly due to the offense's complete inability to move the ball, but I remember after that game people going nuts at how Baltimore's D was old and no good anymore, despite being one of the best in the NFL.

[pokernut9999]

That's pretty irrelevant. The playoffs are decided by wins and losses but I'm not going to look at wins and losses to decide who the better team is.

Points is a fine way to judge a team, and for the most part has a direct correlation to a team's success, but it's not the only thing you can look at.

I am saying wins and losses are decided by points not yards or whatever. To say this is irrelevant is pretty insane. I would also go way out on a limb and say that a team that breaks all the offensive records in one year and goes undefeated and at the same time gives up the fewest points at least gets a shot at being a good team.

[outdrawed]

Huh? Yes, wins and losses are determined by points. I didn't come close to saying they weren't. I said it was irrelevant that that was the case, and you can't look at only points to say "Team A is better than Team B" anymore than you can look at wins and losses to say "Team A is better than Team B"

I would also go way out on a limb and say that a team that breaks all the offensive records in one year and goes undefeated and at the same time gives up the fewest points at least gets a shot at being a good team.

wtf. I think the Pats are easily the best team of my generation, and quite possibly of all-time. So....what?

[pokernut9999]

You said it was irrelevant so what that mean ?

[mgcolby]

You mean like incorporating SOS and the like? Adjusting for weather and whatnot?



Decent post, and I'll agree with you to a point. I'm not saying yardage is the ultimatum for determining a team's ability either, just that you can't look strictly at points given up. The Ravens gave up 31 points in one quarter to the Steelers and it was mostly due to the offense's complete inability to move the ball, but I remember after that game people going nuts at how Baltimore's D was old and no good anymore, despite being one of the best in the NFL.

I agree, points when looked at within a single game can be misguided, but over 16 games that sort of stuff usually evens out, i.e. the defense returns the favor with TD's turnovers etc..

[outdrawed]

You said it was irrelevant so what that mean ?

Fine, not irrelevant. An overrated statistic.

[pokernut9999]

So if giving up the fewest points is overrated then all their scoring records are overrated too ? They are by far the most overrated 15-0 regular season team of all time.

[outdrawed]

Only if you're using the number of points they scored to say they are the best offense of all time. They may be, but you can't use the points to say so.

[outdrawed]

Pats average points per game allowed: 15.93
Steelers average points per game allowed: 16.13

Pats opponents' average points per game (not counting games against the Pats): 21.60
Steelers' opponents' average points per game (not counting games against the Steelers): 23.60

I mean, if you want to look at only numbers. I'd say the Steelers defense is better just looking at these numbers here.

[pokernut9999]

yea you are right that why they held them to 34 points, not bad for the better D.

[outdrawed]

yea you are right that why they held them to 34 points, not bad for the better D.

I swear, you're arguing with me just to argue with me. Your point doesn't even make any sense. So let me guess, the Redskins D is atrocious, and the Dolphins D (which only gave up 3 points to the Steelers) is better than the Pats D.

You just took one game out of thin air to try and attack my point instead of looking at the season as a whole.

[mofome]

Manning of 2004 played 9 of his 15 games in a dome and all in good weather.

Brady in his 15 games has played in high winds in Baltimore, Sleet/Snow/Rain and high winds against the Jets.

Manning played a total of six games outdoors and only one of those six games were played outdoors during the months of November and December (Chicago Nov 21st, Weather 43 and partly cloudy). He did not play in one game affected by the weather.

Manning was on the sidelines for a total of 27:45 minutes during the first 15 games of the season and played a game in OT. The majority of that 16:15 came against Detroit. Brady has been on the sideline for 45:55 minutes in the first 15 games, that doesn't include the majority of the 2nd half against Miami back in October where he played for a total of 6:23 minutes. Does anyone disagree that Brady could have thrown at least one more TD in that extra 18:10 minutes? Heck you could even add in the extra 2:47 minutes Manning received for the overtime against SD. So that would give Brady a total of 20:57.

That means Brady has until the 9:03 mark of the 2nd quarter against the Giants to throw 49 TD's in the same amount of actual gametime as Manning. And he did that playing the final seven games of the season in the northeast, four at home and three on the road in Buffalo, Baltimore and New York.

Then you could add in other little tidbits like the Colts had a total of 10 rushing TD's for the entire season and the Patriots have 15 after 15 games.

Questions?

ah well if you want to get into that, the colts didnt throw while up 30+ points like the pats do. here ya go, brady already has 39 more attempts than manning did in all of 04. manning still had more yards and more tds. less chances for yards/tds, but he still has put up more of'em.
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 17:11 vs det
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 12:56 vs TN
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 15:42 vs the bears
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 59:00 vs denver.

being in and handing the ball off is merely a technicality. less attempts, more tds, more yards, and a better rating. the 2004 indi schedule featured teams that ended up with a total of 128 losses. NE's schedule, going into week 17, already has that many losses.

[outdrawed]

I really hate the Brady/Manning argument. There are mounds of evidence for each player and nobody is ever going to convince the opposition that their evidence is more relevant/valuable.

[pokernut9999]

I really hate the Brady/Manning argument. There are mounds of evidence for each player and nobody is ever going to convince the opposition that their evidence is more relevant/valuable.

I 100% totally agree with you !!!!

[mgcolby]

ah well if you want to get into that, the colts didnt throw while up 30+ points like the pats do. here ya go, brady already has 39 more attempts than manning did in all of 04. manning still had more yards and more tds. less chances for yards/tds, but he still has put up more of'em.
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 17:11 vs det
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 12:56 vs TN
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 15:42 vs the bears
manning didnt throw 1 pass in the last 59:00 vs denver.

being in and handing the ball off is merely a technicality. less attempts, more tds, more yards, and a better rating. the 2004 indi schedule featured teams that ended up with a total of 128 losses. NE's schedule, going into week 17, already has that many losses.

I didn't go anywhere, I simply pointed out the flaw with your original argument.

Your statement is not correct and if you took the time to look that up, you should have seen that he threw almost exclusively during the two meaningful possesions he had in the 4th quarter against Houston up 42-7 and then 42-14. What about being up 34-3 against the Bears? Don't act as if the Colts didn't treat their opposition in the same mannor as the Patriots.

Attempts, ok that is fine but how many games did James miss to injury? How many TD's did they score rushing? I answered the last one in my previous post. Hell Brady has rushed for 2 TD's. And I could point out that Brady has a higher completion percentage and less Int's. But what is the point?

Your wins loss argument is kind of week as well considering the defenses and the status of the teams that the Patriots have played, not to mention they haven't lost to any of them. So if you take away the oppositions losses handed to them by both teams during each of these two seasons New England is +3 and has the potential to be +4 against better competition.

The Colts played five playoff teams and one is a mulligan (Denver). In essence they played four playoff teams and three had 10+ wins, they beat three of them. Two of those teams were division leaders and they went 1-1.

Meanwhile, the Patriots have played four 10+ win teams through 15 games (about to be 5) and could end up being six if Cleveland wins. All four of those games were against teams leading their division, two of which were previously undefeated before losing to the Patriots. If Washington and Cleveland manage to get into the playoffs this weekend they will have ended up playing seven of the possible eleven playoff bound teams this season. Winning at least six of them and potentially seven, depending on the outcome of the Giants game.

You're all over the place with your arguments. You're simply reaching at this point.

[SBR Lou]

Neither blows past the other performance wise, they are both elite QB's that do many things well.

Brady has proven he's more clutch in the playoffs, that's where the separation is. I don't want to hear any Trent Dilfer-has-a-SB-Ring argument, we're comparing two elite QB's so championships of course should be weighed. Brady won three of them before reaching 28yrs of age.

If the Pats finish the season undefeated, and win the championship they'll be remembered forever and will have cemented the greatest season in sports history. Tom will have a ring on four fingers, the argument will get harder and harder to make for Manning over Brady. I'd be happy with either as a coach or owner, but I wouldn't choose Manning 1st.

[pats3peat]

Manning of 2004 played 9 of his 15 games in a dome and all in good weather.

Brady in his 15 games has played in high winds in Baltimore, Sleet/Snow/Rain and high winds against the Jets.

Manning played a total of six games outdoors and only one of those six games were played outdoors during the months of November and December (Chicago Nov 21st, Weather 43 and partly cloudy). He did not play in one game affected by the weather.

Manning was on the sidelines for a total of 27:45 minutes during the first 15 games of the season and played a game in OT. The majority of that 16:15 came against Detroit. Brady has been on the sideline for 45:55 minutes in the first 15 games, that doesn't include the majority of the 2nd half against Miami back in October where he played for a total of 6:23 minutes. Does anyone disagree that Brady could have thrown at least one more TD in that extra 18:10 minutes? Heck you could even add in the extra 2:47 minutes Manning received for the overtime against SD. So that would give Brady a total of 20:57.

That means Brady has until the 9:03 mark of the 2nd quarter against the Giants to throw 49 TD's in the same amount of actual gametime as Manning. And he did that playing the final seven games of the season in the northeast, four at home and three on the road in Buffalo, Baltimore and New York.

Then you could add in other little tidbits like the Colts had a total of 10 rushing TD's for the entire season and the Patriots have 15 after 15 games.

Questions?

do we have a post of the year award? F***IN WOW!!