He was actually pretty sucky from 2002 - 2008
-
Comment -
Warner is better than Kelly and even Aikman, put Troy on any of Warner's teams and he has no Superbowl.Comment -
That is idiotic.
Warner came in to back up Trent who was established star at Washington Redskins then signed by SL, brought over with Mike Martz. With almost no NFL experience, when Trent got hurt, Warner took Rams to Superbowl, etc, multi MVP, etc, et.
Your logic: Lou Gehrig did not even beat out Wally Pip.
Now tell your mom what you want for dinner, and know what you are talking about before posting in the future.
Comment -
I wouldnt say THAT LONG.
Vermeil quit and Mike Martz took over as coach and screwed things up in several ways, including QB. Martz's EGO was HUGE. Basically tried to prove it was HIS system, and any QB would be successful. Warner got pounded and hurt several times, concussions, broken bones in thumb, wrist.
Bulger got in and did pretty good, but he was no Kurt Warner. Warners wife pissed off Martz, called in a local sports show. Warner was eventually gone in Bulgers favor. A lot of fans screamed, rightfully so IMO.
Warner played some games he should not have IMO, should have stayed out til he healed, he could not grip the ball, fumbled at the slightest touch.
Then went to Giants where he was not given a chance.
But he has proven himself, he had a late start and then some screwed up yrs in the middle.
I hope he retires ON TOP after this yr, win or lose @ New Orleans. A few bad hits on artificial turf and he would be out of it.
Comment -
Top 10, no chance. Montana, Marino, Elway, Kelly, Aikman, P.Manning, and Brady are all obviously better
QB's. Those are in the modern ear. Then you have the likes of Graham, Waterfield, Van Brocklin, Starr, Unitas, and others who played earlier. He is certainly a hall of famer, but Top 10, no way. His overall record just does not support that at all.Comment -
Hes on the top 5 list of playoff passing TDs with 20-something with 12 games and everyone else in the top 5 has like 30 TDs with 20+ games. He is an amazing playoff QB.Comment -
Warner is in the conversation, but he needs to do some more work to get in the top 10. Win another SB, then it's a slam dunk.
Warner's biggest problem is that he had that inconsistent span as a journeyman. It leaves some too much doubt.
If Warner loses this weekend to the Saints and then flounders around a couple more years with inuries or whatever, then no.Comment -
Not sure if he's top 10, but definitely top ex grocery bagger!
Comment -
I would love to see him in a bears Jersey... He is a really good QB but I think we could find out a lot with average WR.Comment -
Kelly? Not obviously,
but you do well to bring up different eras...This is the unfortunate destiny of all such debates as it is extremely difficult to compare one era from another...
Allow me to offer this though: Let us call the eighties & nineties the modern era with the likes of Marino, Elway, Montana, Moon, Aikman, Kelly,Young and even Favre highlighting the list...Actually this era should probably start with Fouts(late 70's) and end with Favre.
And then we can call the era we are in now as The Post Modern era with Manning leading the way.
Now these two "eras" are not as hard to compare, but just know that we are most likely witnessing the highest level of quarterback play we have ever seen...These top tiers Qb's have an abundance of talent and information at their disposal, and as we know - knowledge is power...They are coached up in sophisticated Offenses, are usiing all* the modern strength and conditioning programs to their adavantage and what is more, like any great person in their trade - they seem to have really learned how to procede in this business from the greats that came before them.
In short- Manning, Warner, Brees, Rivers, Brady and Favre(Both eras for him) are playing or have played as good as we have ever seen. Roethlisberger as well - to some degree. And Rodgers and Romo are fast approacing this level.
How you want this to affect your top ten list is up to you. You take Starr, I'l take Warner.
*k - maybe they are all not workout warriors, but when they do put in work it is designed like never before to help the play the position at a higher level.Comment -
Some great posts, I think if he gets to the superbowl again he goes into top 5Comment -
Bart Starr was 9-1 in the playoffs (104.8 passer rating) with 5 NFL championships. His stats during the Lombardi years were every bit as good as the modern greats. There's no way that Warner should bump Starr down any QB list. Starr was the Joe Montana of the '60's.
Jim Kelly clearly isn't top 10. He was only 9-8 in the playoffs (72.3 passer rating) even with 4 AFC championships. His regular season stats were somewhat pedestrian (84.4 passer rating) for an elite QB despite helping to innovate the no huddle style offense in the NFL.Comment -
warner is a top 10 qb hes probably 8,9, or 10 but most likely top 10. He is number 1 and number 2 for having the highest passing rating for a playoff game. All of his playoff losses were due to the defense he took his team down the field everytime to gain the lead what more can you ask for? His biggest flaw is scoring too fast and leaving the other team too much time to score He is a very accurate passer and seems to always make the right decision. I mean yeah larry and anquon make him look good but matty kid was a top 10 pick and couldnt throw a td if i was covering fitz so hes gotta be doing something right
Comment -
yeah thats like saying brady should have started over bledsoe years ago. You cant just take out an established star for a nobody that looks descent in practiceThat is idiotic.
Warner came in to back up Trent who was established star at Washington Redskins then signed by SL, brought over with Mike Martz. With almost no NFL experience, when Trent got hurt, Warner took Rams to Superbowl, etc, multi MVP, etc, et.
Your logic: Lou Gehrig did not even beat out Wally Pip.
Now tell your mom what you want for dinner, and know what you are talking about before posting in the future.
Comment -
you would have to name 14 modern era qb's hall of fame qb's that his is better than. not to mention old timers like Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman. Plus there are many recently retired and active qb's better than warner. like Brady,Manning,FavreComment -
Warner is definitely better than a few of the sad sacks already in the Hall of Fame. Top 5 in all time clutch playoff qb, but probably not top 10 all time qb.Comment -
Good grief, this is turning into the Green Bay vs Arizona thread and I wonder what people are looking at. Warner not a top 10 Qb? Warner has to be a top 5 QB. He has led 2 sorry organizations to the promised land. He was never really blessed with real good offensive lines, although he had a great left tackle in Pace. Give him the offensive lines Manning and Brady had and I'd like to see what he would have done. Also, playing with lousy teams, you get lousy coaches.
What did Mike Martz ever do before or after Warner? He has said Bulger, Kitna, and Shaun Hill were better Qb's than Warner. He really did. Tom Coughlin got lucky Michael Strahan was going through a divorce and had Spagnuolo as defensive coordinator, the real brains. How did it go this season with those two gone? Even Warner's short stay they had a winning record with him with lousy players. Luke Pettigout was the best offensive lineman for crying out loud. And Denny Green was coach for Warner's 1st two seasons at Arizona. Need I say more. He kept saying he wanted Dante culpepper and couldn't wait to play Leinart.
Brady in top 10? With all the cheating in videotaping and radio frequencies. How has he done when NFL cracked down on that? Not to knock Montana, he was great (and a top 5 Qb!), but wasn't he also part of a great system with a great supporting cast. 49ers won again without Montana. Montana couldn't quite get the Chiefs to the promised land, albeit he was close. Chiefs had a better foundation than the Cardinals did. No matter where he goes, Warner IS THE SYSTEM. Only other Qb's you could say that about are Unitas (from what I hear and research), Elway, who was under a choke hold by Dan Reeves, and Marino.Comment -
Warner is a hall of famer for sure. What other qb could of took the Rams and Cardinals to super bowls ha. Going to be a great game vs the Saints but i like the Saints in that one.Comment -
Warner has had 3 or 4 really good to great seasons. a few mediocre seasons and a few more below average seasons. i'm not sure how he gets above all but 4 other nfl qb's all time with that resume. I think his best seasons have alot to do with the great receivers he has had, and the offensive system he was in.Comment -
He is clutch in big games and has a nice story of coming back to the league.Comment -
Comment -
Why is it everyone says it's b/c of his receivers like Warner is a nobody? How come Bulger and Leinart couldn't do anything with those same receivers? Everyone used to put Az-Hakim in the same breath as Bruce, Holt, Boldin and Fitzgerald until he proved to be a bust. Warner sure sucked last week and in last year's Carolina playoff game without Boldin, didn't he?
What part about Brady and Bellicheat can't win without cheating do people not understand? 3 stolen super bowls and the biggest choke job in super bowl history. I missed their perfect season, I thought only Miami Dolphins did that. Of course, when Warner loses 2 close super bowls due to New England cheating and horrible refs last year, Warner isn't any good.Comment -
I'm not so sure Manning has had great Offensive lines...It is more him than them. Not saying they are bad, just that he gets rid of the ball so damn fast and audibles out of danger...
Not a Warner hater, but will say two different things...Receivers make all the difference in the world..Very, very few QB's can do much with mediocre receivers or a mediocre system for that matter...
Welker, Moss to New England - KA Ching! for Brady...Stats wise anyway. The numbers speak for themselves in so many other situations, but I am not going to get into it.
That being said. Warner gets credit for making Arizona his own....he constantly lobbies(somewhat annoyingly) for more throws to get himself in a rythym and he would rather have a good receiver who is on the same page as him and runs good routes than a pre-madonna superstar...IF you remember correctly, it took him and Fitz a while to sync and he would flat out ignore him because he did not like Fitz's routes.Comment -
Warner is top ten for sure in my book. The guy took 2 of the top 5 worst franchises ever in the NFL to the Superbowl. I put him above Kelly for the simple fact that Warner won a Superbowl and Kelly couldn't.Comment -
I was looking at Warner's single year with the Giants in 2004. Warner started the season 5-2, then lost two games going to 5-4 before Eli replaced him. The Giants finished the season 6-10 with Eli, losing every game until finally winning week 17. Granted, Eli was a rookie. But it kinda makes one wonder how the Giants would have done if they could have stuck with Warner a little longer. Warner's stats were fine, he was just given a short hook to get the #1 overall pick onto the field.
So, you guys that are making the case that Bulger/Leinart couldn't hold Warner's jock, add Eli to that list too.Comment -
Before 2008, he wasn't playing as a top10 material for a few years...so my vote is "no"Comment -
I hate this super bowl ring crap. How many super bowl rings does Marino & Kelly have, at least that say winner? NONE! But Marino is without a doubt one of the best ever.Comment -
I think Warner is top 10.Comment -
Give him in the top25 maybeComment -
He was a temp with the giants never got a chance to be the QB he is now
I will give you those two wideouts and you will spend your time on your back
Top ten in my bookComment -
people will take about him as top 5-10 of all time in a few years, especially if he were to get back to the SBComment -
top 5 all time is a joke. he is a good player, top 5 currently playing possibly.
how many pro bowls, mvp's ??? where is he on the all time yards passing, touchdown passes, lists ??Comment
