Durant is the NBA MVP

[williams22]

Lebron wins the MVP this year, and in a knicks jersey next year, Sorry williams your boy is gonna leave enjoy it while it lasts.

How much can we wager on that?

[lakerboy]

I would like to see Lebron in New York but Shoe i think you are wrong on that part.

[shoebox]

Hes going to NY, the writings on the wall. You gotta realize the type of celebrity and fame that NY will add to his resume. The guy is not only in it for a ring but much more than that his bottom line. Cavs are desperately trying to get him one because they know he is out next year, and a ring is the only thing that would keep him in Cleveland with a chance to repeat.

[shoebox]

Its business first sport second unfortunately with these pros.

[lyon804]

I disagree here. Obviously Durant is a great player, he's just not to the level of Lebron yet and I don't think he'll ever get there. Scoring he can match Lebron, but when you talk about just about any other aspect it isn't even close.

Like I said, imagine swapping Durant and Lebron. I guarantee you the Thunder win more games and the Cavs win less, isn't that a clear enough indicator of who is better?

Also, don't undervalue Lebron's leadership outside of just his amazing unselfishness. The guy has built a team and created synergies that help those around him be better. Had JJ Hickson played alongside Durant for 2 years instead of Lebron he wouldn't be anywhere where he is today.

Williams, I like you alot man. I think you are incredibly bright and insightful about the game of basketball. However, you need to tone it down on the Cavs/Lebron homerism. Yes, Lebron is a great player and the Cavs have a fine team but they haven't won anything yet. And at the end of the day that's what counts. You remind me alot of myself. When I knew i was right I would argue to a blue streak to others when I was a young man. People are going to disagree with you and there is nothing you can do to convince them agaisnt there will. I will agree with you Lebron is one of the greatest players I have ever watched, but LB does make a good point. The Cavs without Lebron would still win 40+ games this year without Lebron playing a single minute. The Thunder on the other hand would get maybe 20 at best without Durant. Who cares if Lebron is the MVP are not? Does it put money in your pocket? I could careless who won the award. It really is a meaningless award. What counts is wins/loses and championships. I gues my point is... The whole Lebron/Cavs debate is not worth getting your blood pressure up over it. Just enjoy your team and favorite player and don't worry about making others as smart as you. At the end of the day I agree Lebron James is great, but it is a little overdone for the 30+ something crowd. I hate to see any hype and I am glad Tiger Woods got knocked down of his pedestal. It is disgusting to see when white men want to blow there favorite black athlete and white woman want to have there babies. As you get older you will feel the same.

[MrTwiz]

The cavs wouldnt make the playoffs without lebron. Not that OKC would be great withour durant. But we are talking about 1 guy taken off the best team in the league and them turning to complete shit! Lebron in a landslide.

Unless kobe hits like 10 more game winning shots before the end of the yr, like he always does, then maybe hes more valuable

[I am Happy]

Hes going to NY, the writings on the wall. You gotta realize the type of celebrity and fame that NY will add to his resume. The guy is not only in it for a ring but much more than that his bottom line. Cavs are desperately trying to get him one because they know he is out next year, and a ring is the only thing that would keep him in Cleveland with a chance to repeat.

Disagree. Writing is on the wall he's going nowhere. Take a peak at "More Than A Game" when you get a chance. Family & community are very important to him. If he would have grown up in let's say South Carolina, then were drafted by Cleveland - different story. But growing up in Akron and then delivering at a grand stage prominence to the Cleveland Cavs organization and the city of Cleveland - that is storybook. What other athlete can say they could have written the same story. He's also very savy though and will sign 3-year max deals with Cleveland to keep the organization on their toes and the improvement at a maximum interest.

[shoebox]

Think outside of the box for a minute. I saw that clip of him being from Akron, friends and family blah blah blah. However, looking at this from a business perspective NY would get him more overall money than Cleveland can. So you watched a show and now you think you know the guy? NY will have a lucrative effect on his bottom line and he will be in a knicks jersey next year. Lebron has peaked in Cleveland and its now time for him to move on.

[NBAStats]

I thought this thread was completely absurd when I saw the title. I still think it is Lebron, but the numbers are alot closer than I thought. Lebron's net plus minus is +16.2, while Durant's is +16.5. For those of you not familiar with net plus/minus it compares a teams performance with the player on the court to the teams performance with the player on the bench. It's an excellent guide in gauging a player's value to his respective team. These are the top 2 in the league, so they are surprisingly close in that regard.

Lebron FG% is .503
KD is .480

Lebron 3PT % is .345
Durant 3PT % is .380

Lebron FT % is .770
KD FT % is .888

They get to the line at pretty close the same clip, and they both average about the same amount of points. Got to give a slight edge to KD in terms of pure scoring.

Lebron 7.2 boards to KD's 7.5. Ever so slight edge to KD.

Steals and blocks combined Lebron is at 2.73. Durant is 2.26. Edge Lebron.

Durant dishes out 2.8 assists and turns it over 3.48 times per game. Lebron averages 8.5 assists to 3.42 turnovers.

I think it is universally acknowledged that Lebron is the superior defender.


So in summary:
KD has a slight edge in terms of net plus/minus
KD has a slight edge as a pure scorer
KD has a slight edge as a rebounder
Lebron has an edge in steals/blocks and is a superior defender.
Lebron far outclasses Durant in terms of passing.

A few small edges for Durant, a couple of big edges for Lebron. I think it's Lebron all the way this year.

[lakerboy]

Williams, I like you alot man. I think you are incredibly bright and insightful about the game of basketball. However, you need to tone it down on the Cavs/Lebron homerism. Yes, Lebron is a great player and the Cavs have a fine team but they haven't won anything yet. And at the end of the day that's what counts. You remind me alot of myself. When I knew i was right I would argue to a blue streak to others when I was a young man. People are going to disagree with you and there is nothing you can do to convince them agaisnt there will. I will agree with you Lebron is one of the greatest players I have ever watched, but LB does make a good point. The Cavs without Lebron would still win 40+ games this year without Lebron playing a single minute. The Thunder on the other hand would get maybe 20 at best without Durant. Who cares if Lebron is the MVP are not? Does it put money in your pocket? I could careless who won the award. It really is a meaningless award. What counts is wins/loses and championships. I gues my point is... The whole Lebron/Cavs debate is not worth getting your blood pressure up over it. Just enjoy your team and favorite player and don't worry about making others as smart as you. At the end of the day I agree Lebron James is great, but it is a little overdone for the 30+ something crowd. I hate to see any hype and I am glad Tiger Woods got knocked down of his pedestal. It is disgusting to see when white men want to blow there favorite black athlete and white woman want to have there babies. As you get older you will feel the same.

Thats one of main points when you get to our age (37 for me) all the hype about certain guys gets annoying. When you are young its cool to love some star but im more interested in who can make me more cash.

[I am Happy]

Think outside of the box for a minute. I saw that clip of him being from Akron, friends and family blah blah blah. However, looking at this from a business perspective NY would get him more overall money than Cleveland can. So you watched a show and now you think you know the guy? NY will have a lucrative effect on his bottom line and he will be in a knicks jersey next year. Lebron has peaked in Cleveland and its now time for him to move on.

No, I don't know him personally Shoe. I do live in Akron though & have followed his career since his Frosh year at St. V's so I am quite biased on this topic. From a business perspective he increases bottom-line in New York - I believe I'd agree. However, he's sewn some roots on the business front that isn't all Cleveland/Akron grassroots based. LRMR is a world-wide marketing firm that he and high school friends have founded that he's trying to take to the next level. What better place to do this than NY? Yea, probably. I'm just saying that not all of his sewn roots in NE Ohio apply to friends and family, some have to do with business here as well. He can accomplish a global brand through successful basketball championships and runs....pretty much in any city. Plus, he has an excuse to do so in Cleveland

[lakerboy]

If Lebron leaves the cavs this year he is who i thought he was. I hope he proves me wrong.

[obamaismyuncle]

Lebron wins the MVP this year, and in a knicks jersey next year, Sorry williams your boy is gonna leave enjoy it while it lasts.

Very much agree, LeRoy James will be in a Knicks jersey next year.

[shoebox]

By all means I'm not trying to stir anything up, just Williams perhaps . Lebron has done so much for the city of Cleveland and gave himself to the community as much as possible. I would be really supsised if he stays to say the least. I just realize the more realistic decision for him not only in his basketball future. Can never knock a guy down for trying to better himself it's my opinion and I could be wrong for all you cavs homers.

[Wilforth]

I made a similar thread like this sometimes ago and responses I got seemed to suggest LBJ will still have to be crowned the MVP even if he never played a single game this season.

[lakerboy]

I made a similar thread like this sometimes ago and responses I got seemed to suggest LBJ will still have to be crowned the MVP even if he never played a single game this season.

- its the generation these days. you should of heard the nba tv guys last nighti dont even want to mention you might die laughing- i mean it

[Grind House]

You all are a bunch of scoring sissies. It's only one dude in the NBA that changes the game on both ends, and it's none of the people ya'll are talking about. Coaches worry about him on offense and defense.

[lyon804]

You all are a bunch of scoring sissies. It's only one dude in the NBA that changes the change on both ends, and it's none of the people ya'll are talking about. Coaches worry about him on offense and defense.

Enlighten us

[lakerboy]

Grind house is a magic fan

[Wilforth]

- its the generation these days. you should of heard the nba tv guys last nighti dont even want to mention you might die laughing- i mean it

I know what you mean.

[lyon804]

Grind house is a magic fan

It can't be Howard?? Can it? Nobody is shaking in there boots about his offense yet. He is not skilled, just tall,strong, and athletic. He also has to have other people get him the ball. He is not a shooter or creator.

[zogdog]

If LeBron doesn't get at least 80% of the first place votes, something is wrong. Before the Thunder became a winning team this season, there was talk of LeBron getting a unanimous (all the first place votes) MVP. He scores at a more efficient rate than Durant, has more assists, fewer turnovers, a higher rebound rate (meaning if there are X number of rebounds per game, LeBron will get a higher percentage of those rebounds than Durant) on a team that has Shaq, Illgauskas, and Varejao, and now Jamison, who are all pretty good rebounders whereas Durant plays with poor rebounding 4/5s.

On top of all that, LeBron's team has the best record in the league.

As for the argument of, "well, if the Thunder played in the East"... The Cavs have a 77.78% winning percentage against the West (which is higher than against the East). So, that point can be thrown out the window. Thunder are more successful against the East, but the fact that the Cavs have a better winning percentage against the West than East means you can flip flop that statement and say the Cavs would be even better if they were in the West.

[talnted]

I would definitely say Durant is crucial enough a piece of the Thunders success, that people may talk about him as the MVP. Hes had a hell of a year

[Grind House]

The only MVP I'm interested in is the one in the Finals. But Howard definelty dictates how our offense is ran and he makes everyone better when is out there. If you think any of the players we have would shoot and make as many 3's without him, you're just not paying attention. On defense it's not even a dicussion how he changes everyones attempt to come into the paint, and how many shots he changes. I don't expect him to win the regular season MVP in this NBA ever, but it's funny how he gets overlooked all the time. http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/03...for/#more-7575

[SportsTerminator]

Lebron will win MVP. Durant should be runner up though. And I also want to throw Deron Williams in the discussion.

[williams22]

Again I'll repeat, if you swap Lebron and Durant the Thunder become a much better team and Cleveland becomes worse. That should be all you need to know to choose an MVP.

Let's put the scoring aside since Lebron and Durant are basically equal in that category. It is Lebron's passing and leadership that put him into a class of his own.

In reference to Lyon and LB taking about young guys getting too much hype, while I agree to a point, Lebron faced tremendous hype when he entered the league and still managed to beat the expectations. He is potentially the most physically gifted athlete the NBA has ever seen. He is also easily the best non-PG passer the game has ever seen. Combine those two physical talents with his leadership abilities (easily the best since Magic) and you've got a player who deserves the hype.

To whoever was crazy enough to mention Howard:
Howard's offense AND defense are both overhyped. While Howard is certainly an imposing presence on the defensive end, he is just plain stupid in the way he uses his physical gifts. As much as everyone talks about Howard's blocks, he goaltends FAR too often and tends to block the ball back to the opposing team. He needs a lesson from Bill Russell. Also, his post moves are atrocious for someone with his size and quickness. Shaq in his prime would have embarrassed Howard.

[williams22]

By all means I'm not trying to stir anything up, just Williams perhaps . Lebron has done so much for the city of Cleveland and gave himself to the community as much as possible. I would be really supsised if he stays to say the least. I just realize the more realistic decision for him not only in his basketball future. Can never knock a guy down for trying to better himself it's my opinion and I could be wrong for all you cavs homers.

If you truly think he's leaving then you haven't been paying attention to the way he handles himself. Lebron is one of the most loyal athletes I have ever seen whether it be to his friends, family, teammates, high school, etc. I would be fairly shocked if he were to leave. I'd give it a 90% chance that he stays right now.

[lyon804]

Again I'll repeat, if you swap Lebron and Durant the Thunder become a much better team and Cleveland becomes worse. That should be all you need to know to choose an MVP.

Let's put the scoring aside since Lebron and Durant are basically equal in that category. It is Lebron's passing and leadership that put him into a class of his own.

In reference to Lyon and LB taking about young guys getting too much hype, while I agree to a point, Lebron faced tremendous hype when he entered the league and still managed to beat the expectations. He is potentially the most physically gifted athlete the NBA has ever seen. He is also easily the best non-PG passer the game has ever seen. Combine those two physical talents with his leadership abilities (easily the best since Magic) and you've got a player who deserves the hype.

To whoever was crazy enough to mention Howard:
Howard's offense AND defense are both overhyped. While Howard is certainly an imposing presence on the defensive end, he is just plain stupid in the way he uses his physical gifts. As much as everyone talks about Howard's blocks, he goaltends FAR too often and tends to block the ball back to the opposing team. He needs a lesson from Bill Russell. Also, his post moves are atrocious for someone with his size and quickness. Shaq in his prime would have embarrassed Howard.

Not disagreeing with you on your team or player williams.. I was just making reference to the fact how unattractive it was to have unadulterated love for lebron James. It's silly man. True he is a great player, but I don't feel the need to have his baby. It is what it is. He is a great basketball player. Nothing more, nothing less. He don't make the world a better place because he is 6'8 260 pounds and can dunk a ball in a small hoop or make nice passes to his teammates. He is an entertainer. He will not save the world. He doesn't deserve your unbridled praise. He wouldn't have anything to do with you in the real world. He is simply a entertainer and a well paid one. That's all he is. You might not like my view, but my view has been developed with more experience than you are looking at.

[williams22]

Not disagreeing with you on your team or player williams.. I was just making reference to the fact how unattractive it was to have unadulterated love for lebron James. It's silly man. True he is a great player, but I don't feel the need to have his baby. It is what it is. He is a great basketball player. Nothing more, nothing less. He don't make the world a better place because he is 6'8 260 pounds and can dunk a ball in a small hoop or make nice passes to his teammates. He is an entertainer. He will not save the world. He doesn't deserve your unbridled praise. He wouldn't have anything to do with you in the real world. He is simply a entertainer and a well paid one. That's all he is. You might not like my view, but my view has been developed with more experience than you are looking at.

And you can certainly have that view. For me, however, I grew up playing basketball all day every day. I know the sport better than anything else in life and Lebron is a guy that plays the game at a higher level than I've ever seen. I also really appreciate watching an NBA superstar take the time to do the little things like be a great leader on and off the court and develop team chemistry that is rarely seen in the professional ranks.

If basketball is just a vehicle to profits to you then that's certainly understandable, but I'd love the game even without gambling.

[lakerboy]

And you can certainly have that view. For me, however, I grew up playing basketball all day every day. I know the sport better than anything else in life and Lebron is a guy that plays the game at a higher level than I've ever seen. I also really appreciate watching an NBA superstar take the time to do the little things like be a great leader on and off the court and develop team chemistry that is rarely seen in the professional ranks.

If basketball is just a vehicle to profits to you then that's certainly understandable, but I'd love the game even without gambling.

I lost that innocence a long time ago and you might one day as well but i doubt it from the way you sound. There are no allegiances for me . If the lakers lose by 30 points and i make money i coudnt care less

[williams22]

I lost that innocence a long time ago and you might one day as well but i doubt it from the way you sound. There are no allegiances for me . If the lakers lose by 30 points and i make money i coudnt care less

Maybe in time, who knows. However, I do plan on pursuing coaching at some point, so I doubt I'll ever lose the love for the game. To each his own.

Interestingly, as much as I have grown to love the NBA, I find it difficult to watch college basketball.

[lyon804]

Yes, I am smart enough to see what you see. I was an All State baseball/basketball player and played college baseball so me identifying talent and intangibles is not a stretch. I just want you to keep in perspective what he is. He is not more important than a college professor or a policeman/fireman or any other respectable member of society. He gets paid mega dollars to go out on the court a few times a week for a few hours and entertain the hell out of you. Now, I know there is more to it than that, but that is essentially what he is getting paid for. If he is as great as you think he is than it should be a lock that they win the NBA Finals this year. He is a great player surounded by many good/adequate players that he has helped make better players. The question is... Is he big time enough to win it?? Is he a Warrior? You know it takes way more than Talent to win it all. You must have a drive that is undeniable. You must be obsessed with it.. I am not sure Lebron James is obsessed with winning a championship. At the end of the day when the bright lights come on later in the year I don't think the Cavs will win it all.

[JDUB07]

Durant is the man. Dude stepped in at UT and was awesome from day 1. He is 4th best player in the league though... Behind Bron/Melo/Kobe.

[lakerboy]

Maybe in time, who knows. However, I do plan on pursuing coaching at some point, so I doubt I'll ever lose the love for the game. To each his own.

Interestingly, as much as I have grown to love the NBA, I find it difficult to watch college basketball.

That i agree 110%

[Grind House]

Cavs degenerates are the funniest shit since Richard Pryor. Howard is over hyped in defense, but the team is #1 in def. efficiency. Been for the last three years, and this is a team is suppose to have a bunch of soft players. Last year must have really eaten your ass up to be this bitter towards the boys. Imagine how you will feel after this year. Lebron is the NBA's Peyton Manning. Just can't get it done in the playoffs.