horse betting for a living (just read an interesting book)

**Easy-Rider 66** · 10-02-13, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by gojetsgomoxies

http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Number-O...patrick+veitch

i just finished that book... it's about his experience, not a how-to book as my title might suggest... he says he's done 2m+ (pounds) years twice.

anyway, i am very curious about this... any idea what juice/take he was beating most of the time. he went to the racetrack for his occasional low odds bet to beat the betting tax.

what is the OTB take on horse bets? i'm pretty sure at the track it's really bad (like they take 20-30% of the bets and give the rest back para-mutuel sp?)

thanks in advance!!

You get track prices at many OTB'S, but some take an extra cut of your winnings. So no advantage to playing at OTB'S as far as payouts are concerned.

**gojetsgomoxies** · 10-02-13, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Easy-Rider 66

You get track prices at many OTB'S, but some take an extra cut of your winnings. So no advantage to playing at OTB'S as far as payouts are concerned.

ok... thank you very much........ so track and OTB are the same pool?.... i see track track ranges from 15-20% (not sure if it includes breakage.... and 20% or close is not that common)......

**altusgroup1** · 10-02-13, 09:04 PM

This guy did this in the UK, where gambling winnings are tax-free, and where they have numerous venues like Betfair where fixed price odds are offered in markets that also allow lay-betting, which offsets their risk considerably. A very good book from a 1960's UK version of our US Pittsburgh Phil is "Riches From Horses," written by Steve Aherne, who made enough money to buy an Island and retire back in the 60's.

**gojetsgomoxies** · 10-02-13, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by altusgroup1

This guy did this in the UK, where gambling winnings are tax-free, and where they have numerous venues like Betfair where fixed price odds are offered in markets that also allow lay-betting, which offsets their risk considerably. A very good book from a 1960's UK version of our US Pittsburgh Phil is "Riches From Horses," written by Steve Aherne, who made enough money to buy an Island and retire back in the 60's.

altus, thanks..... what is "lay betting"?...... a few terms in veitch's book i didn't understand too.

that's the kind of response i am looking for.... what reasons are there that would make it hard to replicate what he did? beyond the obvious that he's a very talented, hard working sharp guy (as compared to me

)

thanks for the recommendation on the Steve Aherne book. i'll check it out... i am getting gary wiltshire's book.

**singgooner** · 10-03-13, 04:04 AM

Betting in Britain is very different to betting in USA.

You have 3 ways of betting to win - via the exchanges - where you can ask for the odds you want - but have to pay 5% commission on winnings, via the TOTE - which is the same as the American Tote and via the Bookmakers that offer odds that you can take.

There's a 4th way of winning and on the exchanges you can be the bookie - so if you think an NFL team will lose - you can say - I will put 2/1 that this team will not win.

So, you are putting up US$2k of your money to win US$1k of other people's money and there's also 5% commission on those type of bets.

Also, on-course - winnings are tax free and now in betting shops - winnings are tax free as well.

The UK Govt realised that if they taxed punters winnings - then surely punters money that was lost - should then be tax deductible.

So, you workout the math - if every punter in the land - produced their losing tickets and claimed it all as tax deductible - if the UK Govt started to tax a small percentage of punters that got their winnings/profit taxed !

**favorites1** · 10-03-13, 05:33 AM

is there such a possibility to make money for a living betting on horses? just curious to know since I always had this idea that in order to make a profit certain elements need to take place such as an investment (capital) and a business plan isn't a high risk investment to put your assets into a racing horse and who does take care of tracking and keeping tabs on the profits if there is any and who determines when the horse is ready to make money on a competition? thanks for your input

**JBEX** · 10-03-13, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by favorites1

is there such a possibility to make money for a living betting on horses? just curious to know since I always had this idea that in order to make a profit certain elements need to take place such as an investment (capital) and a business plan isn't a high risk investment to put your assets into a racing horse and who does take care of tracking and keeping tabs on the profits if there is any and who determines when the horse is ready to make money on a competition? thanks for your input

**singgooner** · 10-03-13, 11:55 PM

JBEX - Hi - I think there are a number of factors you need to think about before playing with real money for a real wage.

The betting bank - statistically - you will hit a bad losing run - I use 1/50th of my betting bank as stake as a unit - some use 1/100th of their betting bank - that way - your bank slowly increases and you are not strsessed when you hit a bad patch.

Also, you attitude with money.

Once I deposited the cash in my betting account - I think - that's money already lost - so I don;t get stressed when my bank goes down.

It is a mental game - having US$20 on a longshot - you don't mind the punt - but when you put US$20,000 on a longshot - it will affect you mentally - will you have balls of steel.

Also, how many hours of prep & study do you make - remember what Gary Player once said about his golf game - "The harder I work - the luckier I get" and that is my motto on gambling - it's all research, research, study, study and only bet when the odds are in your favour.

That's about it for now - but betting bank is crucial and how much study and an expert you are - is a big factor as well.

Have fun

**gojetsgomoxies** · 10-04-13, 12:44 AM

one note i'll mention from the book is veitch was completely obsessed with the outside of the track being faster than the inside. to me (and probably many others) it seems like it wouldn't be correct when you factor in the longer distance. but his thesis was that the courses generally weren't watered evenly.

he suggests things have changed i.e. courses are now watered more uniformly... and i wasn't sure how much of the race he was suggesting the horse stay way on the outside for..... but he was really obsessed with this..

shocked he allowed to bet against one of the horses he owned (co-owned).....

good book (patrick veitch) but very focussed on his bets on different races and very uk-centric, both of which are of course very understandable.

one thing i love about horse betting is it's legal. so that simplifies things alot, esp. if you live in UK...

and as per the preceding comment. i agree as veitch worked really really hard, was very aggressive and very disciplined... he said you have to have the real quiet analytical side and the bulldog side to put up with the oddsmakers not wanting to deal with you.

**singgooner** · 10-04-13, 07:19 AM

You should try it now with UK bookmakers - if you have an internet account and you win like US$500 - your next bet - you are limited to US$1 win bet.

The days of bold fearless bookies in England are over - the companies are all controlled by wimpy, wanking accountants that just look at their spreadsheets and get a hard on !

The last great British bookie was Freddie Williams - he was a legend at Cheltenham's National Hunt Festival - would never run away from a bet and always paid up - as he knew the money was always loan with some mug or another.

Legend goes - a billionaire owner had the favourite in a big race - Freddie did his own study and priced up the races with his own judgement - no looking at the Morning Line or listening to anyone else.

He was fearless - anyhow - this billionaire came upto him as he knew he had a reputation not to duck a bet and he asked Freddie to have 1/2million sterling at 2/1 on his horse e.g. US$1.6million to US$800k - Freddie took the bet and then to show the billionaire he was fearless and didn't think much of the owner's horse - wiped 2/1 off the board and put 5/2 on it !

The billionaire owner saw what happened and jumped back and said I'll have another 1/2million sterling at 5/2 - Freddie took the bet.

Guess what - the horse lost !

Freddie Williams - may you RIP - the last great fearless independent on-course bookmaker - he had balls of steel - truly !