Dos Santos needs to work on his boxing...

[Hannibal]

I notice its always the dummies that bring up the same arguments against cain.
1. He has a weak chin. Evidenced by him charging chin first into a few kongo crosses. You can argue he was undisciplined, green, and had poor timing, but who else can eat a perfectly placed, perfect scenario punch like those and recover instantly?

2. Cain has no power. This one is beyond retarded. Cain hits about as hard as any hw can hit. He's got the snap, and his mechanics are flawless. The evidence they usually present: well he couldn't finish kongo with endless punches, and he took forever to stop rothwell. .... Look how he throws those punches. He usually has one arm controlling something of his opponent's and his body weight riding on the guy, making it difficult to generate powerful punches in the traditional sense. That fact he can hit so hard, so fast, and so effective from those positions, while maintaining complete contrl of his foe is outstanding. This is one of his strongest points, and I don't think any other fighter can replicate it to this level. Other guys in those positions are only throwing arm punches.

But you judged his power on this? Do you not see how hard he can throw from classical striking stance?

[Ladle]

Um, getting dropped twice by Kongo = weaker chin vs a guy who took Gonzaga's most brutal head kick and smiled at him.

Nonsense. If any human being takes a head kick akin to the one which Gonzaga hit Cro Cop with, they'd instantly hit the deck.

Similarly, those short, truncated crosses which Kongo landed on Velasquez were killshots. I'd be surprised if any heavyweight in the UFC could take one of them flush and stay standing.

Also a guy who took some shots from Carwin and Yvel and didn't blink.

Bad examples. Neither Carwin or Yvel landed any flush punches. Yvel landed about one decent counter before he was knocked out, but nothing brutal.

It's also not debatable that Cain doesn't exactly hit that hard.

Wrong again. Even if he's not a one-shot kill artist, he's still absolutely lethal with his hands. He probably throws his best punches inside with short uppercuts and hooks. Proof? He nearly knocked Ben Rothwell's head off in the clinch, and Brad Morrison ate some of the nastiest clinch uppercuts I've ever seen.

I didn't say he would choose not to take him down. I just said I don't think he'll be able to KEEP it on the ground. For all we know he might not even be able to take him down in the first place. Don't underestimate JDS just because he doesn't have the belt.

I'm not underestimating dos Santos, I'm being realistic and objective. If Velasquez can put Brock Lesnar on his back with his first attempt a single leg, he can probably do the same to dos Santos consistently. Junior has excellent hips so he might be able to escape from the bottom, but I don't know how effectively he can keep that up across five rounds.

[Go4theJugular]

Nonsense. If any human being takes a head kick akin to the one which Gonzaga hit Cro Cop with, they'd instantly hit the deck. Similarly, those short, truncated crosses which Kongo landed on Velasquez were killshots. I'd be surprised if any heavyweight in the UFC could take one of them flush and stay standing. Bad examples. Neither Carwin or Yvel landed any flush punches. Yvel landed about one decent counter before he was knocked out, but nothing brutal. Wrong again. Even if he's not a one-shot kill artist, he's still absolutely lethal with his hands. He probably throws his best punches inside with short uppercuts and hooks. Proof? He nearly knocked Ben Rothwell's head off in the clinch, and Brad Morrison ate some of the nastiest clinch uppercuts I've ever seen. I'm not underestimating dos Santos, I'm being realistic and objective. If Velasquez can put Brock Lesnar on his back with his first attempt a single leg, he can probably do the same to dos Santos consistently. Junior has excellent hips so he might be able to escape from the bottom, but I don't know how effectively he can keep that up across five rounds.

Watch the fight...Gonzaga threw a nasty headkick and he smiled at him. Crocop has been KO'd and hit the deck in similar fashion against Frank Mir, a terrible striker (yes he is STFU because MIR does suck at striking) You lose. I win. He also got knocked out in similar fashion against Brendan Schaub. Crocop's chin is comparable to Chuck Liddell's.

Second of all, Ben Rothwell is a can and he didn't nearly take anyone's head off. Regardless of whether those were kill shots or not, he got dropped twice at the beginning of the round. Get over it.

Third, Carwin didn't land flush punches but when JDS feels a fighter's power he smiles at his opponent and he admitted after the fight that one time he caught a powerful punch but wasn't worried.

Cain doesn't hit hard. Get over it. He will never KO anyone as long as he's alive.

I agree that JDS has excellent hips, which is why I don't think Cain will be able to take him down and hold him down for even half the fight.

[Go4theJugular]

I notice its always the dummies that bring up the same arguments against cain. 1. He has a weak chin. Evidenced by him charging chin first into a few kongo crosses. You can argue he was undisciplined, green, and had poor timing, but who else can eat a perfectly placed, perfect scenario punch like those and recover instantly? 2. Cain has no power. This one is beyond retarded. Cain hits about as hard as any hw can hit. He's got the snap, and his mechanics are flawless. The evidence they usually present: well he couldn't finish kongo with endless punches, and he took forever to stop rothwell. .... Look how he throws those punches. He usually has one arm controlling something of his opponent's and his body weight riding on the guy, making it difficult to generate powerful punches in the traditional sense. That fact he can hit so hard, so fast, and so effective from those positions, while maintaining complete contrl of his foe is outstanding. This is one of his strongest points, and I don't think any other fighter can replicate it to this level. Other guys in those positions are only throwing arm punches. But you judged his power on this? Do you not see how hard he can throw from classical striking stance?

I never said he had a weak chin cok sucker...I said he has a weaker chin than JDS...JDS has an iron jaw and Cain has been knocked down twice...hence weaker.

I agree he has great skills and his mechanics are flawless...but not enough power

[Ladle]

Watch the fight...Gonzaga threw a nasty headkick

A headkick which didn't land flush, and a headkick which was nowhere as brutal as the one he landed on Cro Cop. What you're saying is totally exaggerated (and I think you know that).

Crocop has been KO'd and hit the deck in similar fashion against Frank Mir, a terrible striker (yes he is STFU because MIR does suck at striking)

Maybe you should try actually watching the fight. It's widely regarded as one of the most brutal strikes in UFC history. Whether or not Cro Cop was on the receiving end is practically irrelevant, but even still, Mirko could take a decent lick before getting hit with that kick.

Which brings me on to this:

He also got knocked out in similar fashion against Brendan Schaub. Crocop's chin is comparable to Chuck Liddell's.

Uh, you do know that a fighter's ability to absorb a shot deteriorates with each time they're knocked out, right? Hence why Chuck Liddell was once regarded as having an iron jaw, yet nowadays he can't take a limp-wristed punch from Rich Franklin without getting his lights turned out.

Second of all, Ben Rothwell is a can and he didn't nearly take anyone's head off.

Clearly you haven't seen the Brad Morris or Denis Stojnic fights. I guess you haven't been watching MMA long enough.

Regardless of whether those were kill shots or not, he got dropped twice at the beginning of the round. Get over it.

Lol. I love how you dismiss the fact they were killshots despite the fact it's the most significant factor in the discussion. The point is, any heavyweight would have probably gone down if Kongo had landed those crosses on them. So stop clinging to it as "evidence" to suggest that Velasquez can't stand up to punishment in the same way that dos Santos can.

Third, Carwin didn't land flush punches but when JDS feels a fighter's power he smiles at his opponent and he admitted after the fight that one time he caught a powerful punch but wasn't worried.

You admitted right there that Carwin didn't land a flush punch! The one "powerful punch" you alluded to was pretty much a glancing blow if you paid attention during the reply. Essentially, the Carwin fight told us very little about dos Santos' chin.

Cain doesn't hit hard. Get over it. He will never KO anyone as long as he's alive.

Once again, watch the Stojnic, Morris and Nog fights so you can actually put forward informed opinions for once. Then I'll start taking your posts a bit more seriously.

You lose. I win.

Wrong way round.

[omalley21]

Dont feed him.

[Ladle]

Dont feed him.

I think he's had his fill.

[Go4theJugular]

A headkick which didn't land flush, and a headkick which was nowhere as brutal as the one he landed on Cro Cop. What you're saying is totally exaggerated (and I think you know that).



Maybe you should try actually watching the fight. It's widely regarded as one of the most brutal strikes in UFC history. Whether or not Cro Cop was on the receiving end is practically irrelevant, but even still, Mirko could take a decent lick before getting hit with that kick.

Which brings me on to this:



Uh, you do know that a fighter's ability to absorb a shot deteriorates with each time they're knocked out, right? Hence why Chuck Liddell was once regarded as having an iron jaw, yet nowadays he can't take a limp-wristed punch from Rich Franklin without getting his lights turned out.



Clearly you haven't seen the Brad Morris or Denis Stojnic fights. I guess you haven't been watching MMA long enough.



Lol. I love how you dismiss the fact they were killshots despite the fact it's the most significant factor in the discussion. The point is, any heavyweight would have probably gone down if Kongo had landed those crosses on them. So stop clinging to it as "evidence" to suggest that Velasquez can't stand up to punishment in the same way that dos Santos can.



You admitted right there that Carwin didn't land a flush punch! The one "powerful punch" you alluded to was pretty much a glancing blow if you paid attention during the reply. Essentially, the Carwin fight told us very little about dos Santos' chin.



Once again, watch the Stojnic, Morris and Nog fights so you can actually put forward informed opinions for once. Then I'll start taking your posts a bit more seriously.



Wrong way round.

You're a fukin moron...how is Frank Mir's knee to CroCop one of the most devastating strikes in the history of MMA.
The rest of what you wrote is irrelevant based on your retardation of that one statement.

Killshot or no killshot, Cain was rocked, and Dos Santos never has been. In addition, Kongo is a loser who is on his way to being laughed out of the UFC

[Go4theJugular]

Frank Mir beat Roy Nelson


Current scoreboard

Go4theJugular- 1

Ladle-0

Just in case you didn't know, now u know

[Ladle]

You're a fukin moron...how is Frank Mir's knee to CroCop one of the most devastating strikes in the history of MMA.

I thought trolls used to take pride in their craft? Because that is one pathetic attempt at a troll job. Obviously I was referring to Gonzaga's headkick and not Mir's flukey knee.

The rest of what you wrote is irrelevant based on your retardation of that one statement.

Since you were too dumb to grasp what I was actually saying, maybe you should now reassess your definition of retarded. Perhaps you could make a start by looking in the mirror.

Killshot or no killshot, Cain was rocked, and Dos Santos never has been. In addition, Kongo is a loser who is on his way to being laughed out of the UFC

Yet that killshot would have probably dropped dos Santos - or any other heavyweight in the world - so your point is completely moot.

Ladle: +1000

Brain Dead Troll: -1000

[rocky mattioli]

Carwin telegraphs alot of of his punches, but when they do connect, there is alot of power behind them. I remember watchig some of his fights before the cro cop fight thinking "man, this guy doesnt move his head alot (Not just when punches are thrown, but before hand, to throw off your opponents timing) and he keeps his hands a lil low and never covers his chin when he throws. Hes getting better at it. His offense covers it up, hes one of the best strikers in the UFC, but his defensive boxing isnt that great, there are alot of bad habits that he could break that would make him unstoppable in the stand up game.

i totally disagree...carwin throws his shots from the shoulder with little to no wind-up...straight as an arrow....his problem is that he`s so heavily muscled,he lacks quickness vs guys that are quick of foot...like dos santos...he can`t close distance quick enough to land anything...in other words,although he`s technically very good,he`s relatively slow(compared to dos santos)....

dos santos makes mistakes....like throwing lead uppercuts from way outside....
a recipe for disaster that will catch up with him at some point....if you watch his fight vs werdum,werdum threw a straight right that would have gotten to santos first(before the uppercut landed).....it fell just short...

but nobody seems to be able to land that shot on him...he has great feet for a big man...he`s mobile and athletic...what he does works for him...

i`m a velasquez fan...but if he wades in vs dos santos like he did vs kongo,it`s not gonna go well for him.....it`s much easier pole-axing an aged,stiff nogueira....or a brock lesnar who turtles when someone moves forward throwing punches than it will be vs a long,countering puncher who will exchange and has a substantial reach advantage....he`s going to have to go back to his "kongo plan b"...which is take his man down and beat on him....and i must say,cain`s g&p in that fight was relatively weak...he has power standing...but his g&p wasn`t very powerful...it was persistent...and did cumulative damage...but he had trouble landing real finishing shots from top control(considering the fact that kongo took nearly 3 full rounds of it)....

my guess is we`ll see just how good dos santos takedown defense is(or isn`t) in this fight...

btw..how the hell did racism get injected into the discussion.....man,that`s a real reach....

[Go4theJugular]

I thought trolls used to take pride in their craft? Because that is one pathetic attempt at a troll job. Obviously I was referring to Gonzaga's headkick and not Mir's flukey knee. Since you were too dumb to grasp what I was actually saying, maybe you should now reassess your definition of retarded. Perhaps you could make a start by looking in the mirror. Yet that killshot would have probably dropped dos Santos - or any other heavyweight in the world - so your point is completely moot. Ladle: +1000 Brain Dead Troll: -1000

The score is 1-0 whether you like it or not...challenge me to picking fights and I will put your ass in your place.

[Ladle]

The score is 1-0 whether you like it or not...

Uh, saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true. We try to justify things around here so people take us seriously.

challenge me to picking fights and I will put your ass in your place.

Yet every single retarded opinion you put forward on why dos Santos should be favoured was completely discredited through evidence and logic.

Keep on trolling until you find something more productive to do with your life, kid.

[NickDiaz209]

so u deny that we bet on roy nelson vs mir? so now u are blatantly lying to everyone? thats how I robbed u of ur sbr points...im nickdiaz209 just in case u didnt know. and I never said jds should be favored I said its too close to call...accept my challenge and leys see who can pick fights better starting with strikeforce saturday. u can be the good guy and everyone can root for u. u can even ask vaughany to pick the fights for u if u want. dont be scared homie

[Ladle]

im nickdiaz209 just in case u didnt know. u can be the good guy and everyone can root for u. u can even ask vaughany to pick the fights for u if u want. dont be scared homie

NickDiaz209! What a shocking revelation! I'm in awe right now!

But seriously, why would you make a new account if your previous one didn't get banned? Do you really have that much time on your hands?

so u deny that we bet on roy nelson vs mir? so now u are blatantly lying to everyone?

Check my betting thread, you pleb! I probably made my biggest winnings of the night on that fight (won an 8 unit arb on the fight going the distance and won 3 or 4 units on Mir by decision). In total, I bet about half a unit on Nelson (by decision).

thats how I robbed u of ur sbr points...

Eh? The only thing you've ever robbed me of is the time I've taken to respond to you. Even then, I don't mind. I know you appreciate the attention, and you'll never be as annoying as MMAdisciple, no matter how hard you try.

and I never said jds should be favored I said its too close to call...

I'd say this fight is 60/40 in favor of JDS

Who's lying now?

accept my challenge and leys see who can pick fights better starting with strikeforce saturday. u can be the good guy and everyone can root for u.

Are you trying to live out some kind of pro wrestling fantasy?

Anyway, all of my bets will be posted in my betting thread before Saturday night. If you want to construct some kind of "competition" within your mind - where I'm the good guy and you're the bad guy - be my guest. Make a thread and let's see how well you do/how well you can justify your picks. I have a feeling you won't be able to support any of your choices with actual MMA knowledge, but let's see. Homie.

[NickDiaz209]

NickDiaz209! What a shocking revelation! I'm in awe right now! But seriously, why would you make a new account if your previous one didn't get banned? Do you really have that much time on your hands? Check my betting thread, you pleb! I probably made my biggest winnings of the night on that fight (won an 8 unit arb on the fight going the distance and won 3 or 4 units on Mir by decision). In total, I bet about half a unit on Nelson (by decision). Eh? The only thing you've ever robbed me of is the time I've taken to respond to you. Even then, I don't mind. I know you appreciate the attention, and you'll never be as annoying as MMAdisciple, no matter how hard you try. Who's lying now? Are you trying to live out some kind of pro wrestling fantasy? Anyway, all of my bets will be posted in my betting thread before Saturday night. If you want to construct some kind of "competition" within your mind - where I'm the good guy and you're the bad guy - be my guest. Make a thread and let's see how well you do/how well you can justify your picks. I have a feeling you won't be able to support any of your choices with actual MMA knowledge, but let's see. Homie.

So you admit you're a pussy and won't accept my challenge? That's all you had to say pussy...Now I'll leave your bitchass alone. If somehow you get the balls to accept the challenge let me know...until then, you're just a bitch

[Ladle]

So you admit you're a pussy and won't accept my challenge? That's all you had to say pussy...Now I'll leave your bitchass alone. If somehow you get the balls to accept the challenge let me know...until then, you're just a bitch

Is this the "incoherent trash talk" part of your pro wrestling fantasy? I told you to make a thread with your picks and reasoning. If you want to make a competition out of it, I'm game. Hell, I already posted who I thought was going to win each fight in Dave-M's thread about the event.

And, for the record, I think you're the pussy for spending the vast majority of your time angrily pecking away at a keyboard whilst you repeatedly call people out from behind the comfort of your computer screen. It's a little bit sad, Nick!

[NickDiaz209]

Is this the "incoherent trash talk" part of your pro wrestling fantasy? I told you to make a thread with your picks and reasoning. If you want to make a competition out of it, I'm game. Hell, I already posted who I thought was going to win each fight in Dave-M's thread about the event. And, for the record, I think you're the pussy for spending the vast majority of your time angrily pecking away at a keyboard whilst you repeatedly call people out from behind the comfort of your computer screen. It's a little bit sad, Nick!

Keep the lies coming...I checked out the thread to see nothing but your vagina juice spread all throughout the thread.

Analysis with no picks...typical Ladle...let me know when you grow some balls and make a pick. Until then, saying that Overeem and Barnett aren't a mortal locks isn't picking a winner...thanks for trying though. You picked against Valentin Overeem and Monson, two guys who will be huge underdogs. Congratulations.

[Ladle]

Keep the lies coming...I checked out the thread to see nothing but your vagina juice spread all throughout the thread.

You're definitely no older than 15 if you think accusing someone of having "vagina juice" is an acceptable rebuttal. Damn it, Nick - you can't even insult me properly! I don't think there's much hope for you in this world.

Analysis with no picks...typical Ladle...

My entire betting thread is predicated on making picks with analysis. Unlike what you do, which is state idiotic opinions with zero rationalization or logic because you're a dribbling troll who knows barely anything about the sport.

let me know when you grow some balls and make a pick.

You must have missed the part where I already picked a winner for every fight. Better sharpen up those comprehension skills.

Until then, saying that Overeem and Barnett aren't a mortal locks isn't picking a winner...thanks for trying though. You picked against Valentin Overeem and Monson, two guys who will be huge underdogs.

I've stated many times why I think Overeem will beat Werdum, and obviously I favour Barnett over Rogers (I was just making clear that he's not a sure thing like a lot of people think). I also picked Cormier, V. Overeem and Masvidal in that thread, with justification. What more did you expect, Nick? And where's your thread with your picks and rationale? I can't wait to see it/laugh at it.

You picked against Valentin Overeem and Monson, two guys who will be huge underdogs.

So based on the fact they're likely to be underdogs, I shouldn't pick them? Classic NickDiaz209 logic. From this, can I infer that you'll be picking V. Overeem and Monson? LOL.

[Kaladarus]

so u deny that we bet on roy nelson vs mir? so now u are blatantly lying to everyone? thats how I robbed u of ur sbr points...im nickdiaz209 just in case u didnt know. and I never said jds should be favored I said its too close to call...accept my challenge and leys see who can pick fights better starting with strikeforce saturday. u can be the good guy and everyone can root for u. u can even ask vaughany to pick the fights for u if u want. dont be scared homie