Lets talk stann vs santiago

The HOFF · 05-23-11, 04:10 AM

Stann is a completely different fighter since going to Jackson's camp. He is improved in all of those areas you speak of: ground game, sub defense, and his stand up which was decent in the first place. He had great footwork and movement when he KOd Leben. Remember Santiago also got KOd by Khalidov the fight before he beat him by decision. Santiago has 8 loses, 5 by TKO.

bjpenn85 · 05-23-11, 04:20 AM

I can agree with some of the statements you present, that he has improved. But how many fights do we have of this new improved stann. Leben? Massensio?

Vaughany · 05-23-11, 07:41 AM

Rashad has been training with Jorge Santiago in Florida with the Top Team rejects, wonder if he's been giving Santiago any inside tips!

A lot of pressure on Stann, he's gone from being a fighter on verge of being cut in LHW division to suddenly a contender in MW division with UFC hyping him quite a bit and making him a "face" of the company (and quite rightly as he is a model pro). Moreover, it's Memorial Weekend so Mr Military Stann is going to be super pumped up and motivated to put on a performance. Basicly Santiago has a great chance if he can get it to the ground, which he probably can, but I just think that Stann has more chance of catching him with punches then Santiago does of getting Stann to the ground and then subbing him. I'd be weary of taken Stann as -130 favourite but I got him at +110 opener so more than happy with that.

Ladle · 05-23-11, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Rashad has been training with Jorge Santiago in Florida with the Top Team rejects, wonder if he's been giving Santiago any inside tips!

A lot of pressure on Stann, he's gone from being a fighter on verge of being cut in LHW division to suddenly a contender in MW division with UFC hyping him quite a bit and making him a "face" of the company (and quite rightly as he is a model pro). Moreover, it's Memorial Weekend so Mr Military Stann is going to be super pumped up and motivated to put on a performance. Basicly Santiago has a great chance if he can get it to the ground, which he probably can, but I just think that Stann has more chance of catching him with punches then Santiago does of getting Stann to the ground and then subbing him. I'd be weary of taken Stann as -130 favourite but I got him at +110 opener so more than happy with that.

It's a tough one to call. Santiago's chin is dreadful but Stann's defensive jiu-jitsu looked absolutely horrendous against Soszynski. I favour Santiago because I think he's decent enough on the feet to close the distance and get the takedown without exposing himself too much, but it can easily go either way.

PunisherIND · 05-23-11, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Ladle

It's a tough one to call. Santiago's chin is dreadful but Stann's defensive jiu-jitsu looked absolutely horrendous against Soszynski. I favour Santiago because I think he's decent enough on the feet to close the distance and get the takedown without exposing himself too much, but it can easily go either way.

wasnt the soszynski fight at light heavy?

cheeese · 05-23-11, 01:06 PM

Yes and he clearly is light years ahead of where he was in that fight.

Ladle · 05-23-11, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by cheeese

Yes and he clearly is light years ahead of where he was in that fight.

His defensive grappling is miraculously light years better after two years of training? It's better, but there's no evidence to suggest that it's considerably better. Either way, he showed a white belt level of defense defending that kimura. Whether or not it took place at LHW is irrelevant.

cheeese · 05-23-11, 06:36 PM

He was submitted by a strongman with a strongman move at 205. I think it does matter because now that he is fighting at 185 he should be at least equally as strong as his opponents if not stronger.

He went from getting LOL submitted to fighting off a wrestler including getting back to his feet several times and then actually submitting another wrestler off his back, a fight where he was able to get up a few times also. I think that is a big improvement.

I'm not saying he will win any gold medals but there is reason to believe he has improved enough to stop takedowns from ju-jitsu first fighter with a really weak chin.

I see Santiago having to utilize clinch takedowns and Stann being too powerful for him and possibly landing some short hooks at close range until Santiago has had enough.

v1y · 05-23-11, 07:17 PM

stann has big KO power, solid conservative boxing, and santiago has a glass jaw.

on the other hand, santiago is going to have a big jiujitsu advantage, and has been training with solid takedown artists (rashad evans, danillo villefort), and there are very good reasons to believe he can bring this fight to the ground.

Honestly, i think most people would take khalidov at this point over stann, but stann/santiago is definitely a 50/50 fight, and i don't like a play either way.

Ladle · 05-23-11, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by cheeese

He was submitted by a strongman with a strongman move at 205. I think it does matter because now that he is fighting at 185 he should be at least equally as strong as his opponents if not stronger.

That's irrelevant; it doesn't change the fact that Stann defended the move like a total novice. If you try to synch up a kimura like that on someone who's even slightly decent off of their back, you're going to get swept every single time. Soszynski even totally botched his first attempt at the move, but was granted a do-over from Stann.

Originally posted by cheeese

He went from getting LOL submitted to fighting off a wrestler including getting back to his feet several times and then actually submitting another wrestler off his back, a fight where he was able to get up a few times also. I think that is a big improvement.

That falls under offensive jiu-jitsu, which is a different skill. We still don't know much more about Stann's ability to defend submissions since the loss to Soszynski.

And for the record, that triangle on Massenzio was one of the clumsiest triangles I've seen in the UFC. Hardly an indicator of a good practitioner.

Originally posted by cheeese

I'm not saying he will win any gold medals but there is reason to believe he has improved enough to stop takedowns from ju-jitsu first fighter with a really weak chin.

Santiago's takedowns are definitely good enough to put Stann on the mat. It's just a matter of whether or not Stann connects with a flush shot first.

Pin2Win · 05-24-11, 08:53 AM

I think this is a great matchup, I love watching Stann fight, the guy is getting better and better (not saying he was bad to begin with) he has the power in his hands and is decently well rounded...

I think the fight can go either way with these two style of fighters, because they are both great in different areas (who's going to stick to the game plan)

Vaughany · 05-24-11, 04:42 PM

Got Stann as underdog at +110 but if I had to pick now I'd take Santiago at +120 or better.

spargament · 05-24-11, 09:49 PM

I never like guys making initial octagon appearances..its been a while for Jorge..but I think he's the value

Varker · 05-25-11, 01:57 AM

I feel like stann will get the ko.

bjpenn85 · 05-25-11, 09:13 AM

My Picks so far for 130
Straight bet
21 Units on Trawis Browne to win 27 Units
Parlays
2 units on Rampage TKO and Thiago A to win 9 Units
10 units on rampage, tibau, struve browne not going the distance to win 13 units

33 units to win 49 units

Duff85 · 05-28-11, 06:42 PM

Hoping for a Stann win tonight. That is my biggest play on the card.

NickDiaz209 · 05-28-11, 06:57 PM

We really won't know how good each of these guys are until after tonight...I don't really buy into either fighter improving that much over the last 4 years

koscheckbaby · 05-28-11, 08:41 PM

Chin vs heavy hands. Sometimes we overthink. I was guilty of it too. I liked Stann a lot here, but was wondering why the line was so close that I didn't go heavy.

Pin2Win · 05-31-11, 09:38 AM

I like how Stann has been rapidly improving! If he stays on pace in a couple years he's going to be a force

Ladle · 05-31-11, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by koscheckbaby

Chin vs heavy hands. Sometimes we overthink. I was guilty of it too. I liked Stann a lot here, but was wondering why the line was so close that I didn't go heavy.

Could have been a drastically different fight if Santiago had put Stann on his back. The line was close for a reason.