Who do you guys think is the best submission fighter of all time? Below are some forum thoughts and two fighter bios indicating that Nogueira and Penn are up there. A lot of guys say Royce Gracie. Does he deserve it because he started it all, or does a modern fighter that would likely beat him in the modern MMA game deserve it? What do you think?
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Gracie isn't close, you would have to mention Sakuraba then as well. Aoki and Lister are wizards on the ground as well, they are not near as well rounded as Penn and Nog so it is harder for them to put guys in a spot to sub them.Comment -
Aoki is also outstanding, as you said.Comment -
Mark Kerr was a submission beast.Comment -
big nog is my choiceComment -
Originally posted by UncleChris
Kerr was pure ground and pound guy, his nick name was the Smashing Machine for a reason.
Skaraba should be mentioned in the discussion.Comment -
Kerr was the opposite of a submission guy. Don't forget my boy Jeremy Gumby Hornהמוסד
המוסד למודיעין ולתפקידים מיוחדים
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Sorry you are right. I somehow confound Kerr with Dan Severn. Dan was the submission beast.
Wins 80
By knockout 13
By submission 49
Losses 14
Draws 7Comment -
Dan really wasn't submission fighter either. Rather a wrestler that learned some submission skills after Royce Gracie triangled him.
A lot of his submissions happened against second tier talent later in his career. He certainly got better at subs. . . But I don't think he belongs in this discussion.
Sakuraba
Royce Gracie
Big Nog
B.J. Penn
In no particular order are my votes. Rickson Gracie didn't fight enough in MMA to be listed.Comment -
Bret "The Hitman" Hart.Comment -
True... but I am going to vote for him anyway...Originally posted by flyingillini
MARK "THE SMASHING MACHINE" KERR!!!
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Good list, Renzo Gracie too.Originally posted by JJOdinComment -
Although he is young i think Nate diaz will be in that category, but not yetComment -
Royce is my vote.
Yes, I realize Royce is nothing compared to the current top tier in the game. But, Royce did start it all over a decade ago. Everyone fighting today owes props to Royce. Royce is like the Vince Lombardi Packers from the '60's. Sure, if you got a time machine, any modern NFL team could whip them, but they still deserve a special place in history. So, adjusted to his own era, Royce is the G.O.A.T.Comment -
Yes, Renzo was/ is outstanding as well. He also had the heart that a true sub fighter must have (remember when he refused to tap against Sakuraba and got his arm broken without even a whimper?).Originally posted by The Seer
I still wish that we had seen more of Rickson. But we didn't, and now it's too late.Comment -
If we're talking straight up grappling as a whole within the hybrid MMA style of greco roman, bjj, and ground and pound, I'd say Randy Couture. From his wrestling accomplishments, to his MMA accomplishments, I don't think their is a man I'd be more scared of when he took me down. When Randy kept the fight on the ground, he controlled fights like no other fighter could. From one side of the cage to other.
If we're only talking bjj submissions via kimura, gogo plata, oma plata, rear naked, etc... I have to go with Noguiera in this day and age. The kid has just excelled at everything within the confines of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Honestly incredible. His skills in my opinion are way more refined than the traditional Gracie style. Team Black House has some great instructors on their staff with Camoes, Behring, and Barreto.Comment -
Originally posted by Saunders FTW
Nate Diaz certainly has some skills. I agree that we're just looking at potential thus far; he doesn't belong in the conversation yet.
The interesting thing about the Diaz's, which is a little bit off of the convo here, is that they are both absolutely as tough as nails. There is no quit in either.Comment -
josh barnettComment
