rewatched leasnar/velasquez....

Raynor21 · 10-26-10, 08:48 AM

I blame it on cockiness.

King Mayan · 10-26-10, 03:51 PM

All his fight have been that way.. Rushing like a defensive end... Velasquez knew this and capitalized!!!

stefan084 · 10-26-10, 05:49 PM

i think brock knew he had to get it to the ground immediately to avoid a carwin like situation and was desperate to get to his strength

Kaladarus · 10-26-10, 06:02 PM

The reason we don't see Lesnar's strategy used by other fighters is because it won't work. Lesnar can easily and comfortably beat at least 90% of fighters using his strategy. I don't know what else you can expect him to do. He has no other skills. His "all or nothing" strategy is realistically the only viable strategy he has at the moment. He caught Velasquez off guard and took him down. Holding him down was completely different, but he completed the first stage of his strategy by rushing in. In my opinion, a slower start would have just got him in trouble even faster since Velsaquez could easily pick him apart on the feet or attempt takedowns of his own. For a new strategy to be used Lesnar would require some type of stand up skill. If Lesnar could mix striking up with takedowns he would be almost unstoppable. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment. I think almost everybody that bet on Lesnar could agree that the reasoning behind their bet was because they believed Lesnar would go for takedowns and hold Velasquez down.

lasker · 10-26-10, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Kaladarus

The reason we don't see Lesnar's strategy used by other fighters is because it won't work. Lesnar can easily and comfortably beat at least 90% of fighters using his strategy. I don't know what else you can expect him to do. He has no other skills. His "all or nothing" strategy is realistically the only viable strategy he has at the moment. He caught Velasquez off guard and took him down. Holding him down was completely different, but he completed the first stage of his strategy by rushing in. In my opinion, a slower start would have just got him in trouble even faster since Velsaquez could easily pick him apart on the feet or attempt takedowns of his own. For a new strategy to be used Lesnar would require some type of stand up skill. If Lesnar could mix striking up with takedowns he would be almost unstoppable. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment. I think almost everybody that bet on Lesnar could agree that the reasoning behind their bet was because they believed Lesnar would go for takedowns and hold Velasquez down.

Exactly right. I don't agree with all the criticism of Lesnar's strategy. As you say, it was the only viable strategy and it did have a chance of succeeding. The first serious mistake was in rushing to get to side control after the first takedown. He probably had a chance to hold Velasquez down (at least for a while) had he taken his time a bit more, but he opened space with the same frantic pace as before the takedown, and Velasquez immediately took advantage and stood up. This fight really came down to whether or not Lesnar would be able to hold Velasquez down; I bet on Lesnar because I thought he would.

zeroprogress2 · 10-26-10, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by lasker

Exactly right. I don't agree with all the criticism of Lesnar's strategy. As you say, it was the only viable strategy and it did have a chance of succeeding. The first serious mistake was in rushing to get to side control after the first takedown. He probably had a chance to hold Velasquez down (at least for a while) had he taken his time a bit more, but he opened space with the same frantic pace as before the takedown, and Velasquez immediately took advantage and stood up. This fight really came down to whether or not Lesnar would be able to hold Velasquez down; I bet on Lesnar because I thought he would.

yeah i noticed the same thing and had the same logic.

rocky mattioli · 10-26-10, 07:08 PM

did he attempt to overwhelm couture?...i can`t remember offhand....i don`t believe so...and he actually won the stand-up battle there...he`s green...but he`s not totally bereft of a stand-up game...i guess i`m in the minority...

honestly,i`m still not sold on 6`1" velasquez` stand-up...maybe i`m crazy...i wish lesnar had tested velasquez` stand-up before going into panic mode..i think he had a real shot....velasquez` stand-up is fearless....and careless.......just my opinion...

i really hope that velasquez is highly enamored with his boxing ability when he fights dos santos......i hope he feels so confident that he stands with dos santos....like he did with nogueira and kongo....

time will tell.....props...props...props....

thanks for the responses...appreciated...

Chairib · 10-27-10, 11:10 PM

Brock wasn't working on his cardio during training camp, it was pretty clear as he was gassed two minutes into round one.

Not only that but looking at how bad his stand up was, especially on defense, he wasn't actually putting in any actual sparing time and solely working on the focus mits.

These issues could be on the trainers but most likely Brock dictating what he was going to do during a camp.

LearningTree · 10-28-10, 01:11 AM

I agree with Rocky 100%.

It was not his only viable strategy. He could've stood with Cain and setup takedowns with his striking. He had power and reach despite the fact that he had a striking disadvantage. He could've clinched with Cain on the fence and used dirty boxing and knees, which would've been his best option. To go full blast with anything against a guy with good cardio and good wrestling is stupid. That's fighting out of pure fear. You are destroying your options by not even seeing what your opponent is going to do. You are sabotaging yourself. And like I posted in another thread, you can be aggressive and still pick your shots. Brock was randomly throwing things with no reasoning. That's a ridiculously dumb strategy for any MMA fighter to use and a complete waste of energy.

He should fire everyone in his camp if that was actually the best idea they could come up with. It was barely an idea at all.

lasker · 10-28-10, 01:27 AM

Had Lesnar been more patient after getting the takedown this whole discussion might sound very different. His mistake came after getting the takedown, not before. He should have been more patient instead of immediately trying to improve position. But he probably needed that kind of explosiveness early on just to take Velasquez offguard; Velasquez even admitted being surprised by the early pace and winding up on his back because of it. A slower pace could only favor Velasquez, IMO.

Also, Lesnar only looked "gassed" because he was punched and kneed in the face, hard. He was badly hurt. He did not tire himself out with the pace he set. Regardless, trying to save energy for later rounds would still favor Velasquez, whose cardio is probably on another level entirely. Lesnar's best chance was to win this in round 1 or 2, and he gave it his all but came short. But he wasn't going to be gassed out if he had been able to keep Velasquez down, I really think it only appeared that way because he got so badly hurt. For me, this is more a testament to Velasquez' incredible composure and skill than a result of Lesnar's poor gameplan.

Lesnar did clinch with Velasquez along the fence but could not control him and soon winded up on his back. His gameplan clearly involved closing the distance. He just underestimated Velasquez' scrambling and offensive wrestling ability.

Vrakas · 10-28-10, 06:43 AM

you simply cant hold velasquez down.this guy is lightweight fast.cain will be the new fedor.he will dominate the ufc for a very long time.lesnar did well for the first 90 seconds because he rushed in and pushed the pace.it was his only option and it didnt work but at least he looked good for that 90 seconds.