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Shut your mouth when you talk to Me!Comment -
Yes, I don't care if it's a freakshow fight; I am excited for it.Comment -
Not a fan of the juice on Couture...
Only way I'd consider this fight is a prop.
One that has caught my eye is Toney in round 1 at +900. Maybe worth a tiny play...Comment -
5Dimes has more props up for the Couture/Toney fight.Comment -
the only advantage for couture will be if he gets the fight on the ground,but while attempting that it could be lights out with one toney punch.Comment -
Just some food for thought for the idea that Toney only has to land one punch to knock Couture out - this article is interesting:
Aug 24, 2010 - Here is a list of men with at least 10 pro boxing bouts and 5 pro MMA bouts:
Marcus Davis - Pro boxing record: 17-1-2 (12 KO), MMA record: 17-6 (6 KO)
Chris Lytle - Pro boxing record: 13-1-1 (7 KO), MMA record: 29-17-5 (4 KO)
KJ Noons - Pro boxing record: 12-2 (5 KO), MMA record: 10-2 (8 KO)
Jeremy Williams - Pro boxing record: 42-5-1 (35 KO), MMA record: 5-0 (3 KO)
Despite a lot of talk from people who follow both sports there does not appear to be a direct correlation between having experience as a pro boxer and being a massive KO artist in mixed martial arts. This comes down to the rather obvious differences in the sports. The threat of takedowns and kicks take away the ability of a boxer to sit down on their punches and deliver them with full power. That threat can be witnessed with clarity in this exchange between Chris Lytle and Muay Thai stylist Thiago Alves:
You can see Lytle throwing an overhand right to close distance and covering up from the return left hand of Alves only to eat a nasty leg kick with his left foot still planted. Lytle is an experienced and successful MMA veteran, he knows what to expect in an MMA bout. How will James Toney handle the first time he instinctively goes to his boxing defense and eats a leg kick or gets double legged for a takedown? We'll get back to Toney in a few moments.
There is also a change in stance between the two sports if you want to have even the slightest ability to defend against takedown attempts. These things also add up to there being significantly less punches thrown in 15 minutes of MMA action than boxing reducing the overall possibility that you get an "accumulation knockout" where the volume of punches landed wears a guy down and eventually finishes him.
In four ounce gloves almost anyone possesses knockout power. A clean power shot to the chin can finish a fight at almost any moment. That is not something specific to just men who have boxed in the past. The place where a boxing past can and does help a fighter is in straight up punching exchanges. There is very little that can give a man the timing and accuracy in straight-up punching exchanges like a professional boxing background. But again, as soon as the spacing changes due to the variety of options available in mixed martial arts that boxing technique means little. See Marcus Davis getting dropped in his bout with Dan Hardy at UFC 99:
Davis is trying to throw some hooks at Hardy from close quarters and Hardy traps the head in a Muay Thai plum, erases the hooking distance and knees him to the chin, almost finishing the fight. In Davis we have an experienced and successful mixed martial artist with skills in multiple areas of the sport, not a man making his debut in mixed martial arts against one of the sport's legends on less than a year of training.
This all brings us to:
James Toney - Pro boxing record: 72-6-3 (44 KO), MMA debut Saturday night
The recurring theme when talking about Toney's fight with Randy Couture at UFC 118 is that James has to land punches early and knock Couture out. One can't really argue the logic of this statement. Over just a few months of training mixed martial arts there is no way that Toney will be able to pick up enough grappling to hang with Couture, a three time NCAA All-American wrestler and three time Olympic alternate. If Randy can outwrestle and submit Mike van Arsdale (a former gold medal winner in freestyle at the world cup and NCAA D-1 champion) after van Arsdale had been fighting for seven years, he can easily do the same to James Toney who has only trained for maybe seven months.
Knowing the above mentioned significant stylistic differences between boxing and MMA we can assume that the window for Toney to be able to sit down on his punches and knock Couture out is reasonably small. So when we look at Toney we have to look at his style to see if he is the kind of guy who is likely to engage in a fast paced start to achieve a knockout. For a review of Toney's boxing style I'll defer to boxing writer Steve Kim in his recent interview with Luke Thomas on MMA Nation:He's not a guy-- number one, he's not really a guy that's in top physical condition at all times, he's not a guy that's gonna come forward and be frenetic and chase guys down. He's gonna be a guy who's kinda gonna plant his feet and he's gonna react off you. You mentioned the shoulder roll. The one thing he likes to do is he likes to neutralize your right hand. He hides that chin very well and he hides it behind the shoulder and he rolls it. So one thing he always tries to do -- and I've noticed this from being in the gym with him many times at the Wild Card -- he loves for you to lead with that right hand, and he will roll it and he'll come back with his own shot. That's one thing where I think Randy Couture is gonna have some difficulty. If he is going to rush James Toney and attack him, I think that suits James Toney just fine. And, obviously, Randy Couture is gonna go and dive at the legs. I can't imagine him trying to do anything over the top, but what James Toney wants you to do is to be pro-active in your offensive approach. He wants you to lead, and if Randy Couture's not careful, I think he's gonna catch a right hand counter.
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(responding to a question of Toney's power) ...to put it as a baseball analogy, he certainly wouldn't be Mark McGwire circa 1998, but he's the type of guy-- Power, from one to ten, I would rate it somewhere around a seven or an eight. He was more of a volume puncher that relied a lot on accuracy and timing, and that's the one thing he was very good at, was timing you. But was he considered at any weight class a one-punch knockout artist? No, that was never the case.
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i read a article today saying that toney is definitely not a one punch knockout guy, he is more of a punches in bunches guy that is very acurate , is this true?. i would lying if i said i knew who toney was before this fight....Comment -
I swore I wouldn't get too excited for this fight, but damn it's hard. Is there a prop on Randy via RNC?Comment -
Couture takes him down within a minute, Toney tries to get up and gives up his back and is rear-naked choked 2:40 into the 1st round.Comment -
Couture within the distance, hedged by Toney MLComment -
If Couture's not paying his electricity bill the lights will go out, but Couture is rich and should have this taken care of.Comment -
Couture will win this fight easily.Comment -
i hope toney takes it but chances are very unlikelyComment -
yes Toney can KO Couture with these little gloves, but lets face it "Light Out"??? take away his last boxing match vs a nobody named Matthew Greer his last knockout was Holyfield in 2003, 7 years when he was 35.Comment -
+500 looking juicy to me!
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Toney still looks fat to me...looks too round, almost as if it will be difficult for him to manoeuvre a punch!Comment -
[quote=Eccocide;6092223]Just some food for thought for the idea that Toney only has to land one punch to knock Couture out - this article is interesting:
Aug 24, 2010 - Here is a list of men with at least 10 pro boxing bouts and 5 pro MMA bouts:
Marcus Davis - Pro boxing record: 17-1-2 (12 KO), MMA record: 17-6 (6 KO)
Chris Lytle - Pro boxing record: 13-1-1 (7 KO), MMA record: 29-17-5 (4 KO)
KJ Noons - Pro boxing record: 12-2 (5 KO), MMA record: 10-2 (8 KO)
Jeremy Williams - Pro boxing record: 42-5-1 (35 KO), MMA record: 5-0 (3 KO)
None of those guys have boxed and been successful at the level Toney has.Toney comes from the streets and has been boxing since he was a little kid.Im pretty sure hes been in a few street fights, and mma is basically a street fight with rules.Maybe its the hype, but I think Toney has a good shot to get the KO!!Comment -
I just blew my mind with this one, but who's to say Toney doesn't freak out and get himself DQ'd? I can't imagine he's going to like getting manhandled. He might go for an ear.Comment -
Toney is further out of his prime than Randy, but this is MMA, the sun shines on every dog's ass once in a while.
Muscle memory is the key here, if Randy gets caught with one, he will most likely get caught with 5-10, and will most likely get rocked hard enough to get knocked out.
We should also not forget to take into account Randy Coture's Ego when capping this, Randy has made a name for himself with the "dirty-boxing" style, and if he tries it here he will fail. If he tries to stand with Toney, he has a larger chance of getting his head knocked off.
The best prop I have seen for this which I think is better than laying asinine chalk on Randy, or the long shot with Toney, is that the fight will not go into the second round. -220Comment -
I really like Couture here. I don't like the work l**k but it's close. I wouldn't go all in but a large play on Couture and a small play on Toney for some backup seems about right. People are giving Toney too much credit I think. Did you see him at the weigh-ins??? He's too damn heavy for his own good. He is the Current IBA title holder but look how he got it. The title was vacant and he beat Oquendo in a split decision. He hasn't fought anyone all that good in quite some time. We all know Couture is great on the ground. Toney doesn't want any part of him on the ground. Toney signed with UFC on March 3rd. You can't just practice for even a year and think you have a basic ground game. Especially compared to Couture. Lesnar beat Couture on the ground because he's fukkin huge and powerful and is a great wrestler in his own right. Lesnar was too quick for Couture and took him down with ease. Toney is just too fat and slow to even try to take Couture down. I like Couture here.Comment -
You guys are insane if you think Tony actually has a chance. Tony is finished hes out of shape and delusional. Couture will take him down within seconds.Comment -
curious to see how much money Toney is getting for the fight and if he gets a piece of the PPV buysComment -
i hope tony winsComment -
Couture at Sportbet -520. Toney at Pinnacle +555. If anyone has accounts at both it's free money.Comment -
I hope this fight lasts longer than I think it will...Comment -
Can this fight be watched online? If so any links?Comment
his nickname isnt LIGHTS OUT for no reason. big counter puncher!
