Junior dos Santos (-295) vs Roy Nelson (+235)

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  • lasker
    SBR MVP
    • 01-27-10
    • 1683

    #1
    Junior dos Santos (-295) vs Roy Nelson (+235)


    Junior dos Santos (JDS) is the best striker in the UFC's heavyweight division and, in my opinion, one of the five best strikers in all of MMA (the other four being Aldo, Silva, Rua, and Overeem). Some consider Pat Barry the top striker, but he recently lost to Cro-Cop and did not look nearly as dominant in the striking as JDS was against the same opponent. JDS has been absolutely decimating his opponents. He is one of the most exciting fighters to watch, which has built him sizeable fan base, and there's little doubt that the UFC would like him to get the title shot. Outstriking Cro-Cop over three rounds is a huge accomplishment, even if Cro-Cop is a shadow of his former self. It doesn't hurt that JDS belongs to the same gym as Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida, two of the elite strikers in all of MMA.

    Roy Nelson cannot stand with JDS for very long. Nelson is a competent striker and we've learned that he has knockout power, but he just doesn't have the speed to compete with someone as fast as dos Santos. This means he'll have to try to take him down. In my opinion he'll have an extremely difficult time doing this, again because of dos Santos' quick movement. Nelson defeated good strikers in Schaub and Struve, but he did so not by wrestling but by surprising them with his own striking ability. However, dos Santos is on another level compared to Schaub and Struve; he is far too technical and quick, and if Nelson goes in to the fight thinking he can hold his own for a while in the standup game, he'll most likely be stopped in the first round.



    If we look at JDS' UFC victims, one could make a strong argument that he already deserved the title shot (over Shane Carwin). He defeated Werdum, Struve, Filipovic, Yvel and Gonzaga, and he stopped them all with strikes. With the exception of Yvel, these are not middle-of-the-road fighters. And he demolished them. Even against Yvel, who is far too one-dimensional as an MMA fighter, dos Santos outclassed him in that one dimension. Roy Nelson has beaten Schaub and Struve in the UFC. Prior to those fights he was coming off of two consecutive losses. Nelson is a very good fighter, but his momentum is coming mainly from those two wins as well as his performance on The Ultimate Fighter against sub-par competition; a performance which, even in victory, left a lot to be desired.



    Suppose for a moment that Nelson manages to take dos Santos down. What then? This is the big question mark, as nobody has managed to test dos Santos on the ground yet. However, Nelson is not a ground and pound specialist. He goes for position and submissions. I don't see this being too much of a problem for dos Santos, who is a brown belt under the Nogueira brothers and should at least manage to take minimal damage and avoid submissions if he ends up on the bottom. If he is taken down he could lose a decision, but the only way this could happen is for Nelson to repeatedly take him down in each round. I just haven't seen the speed or wrestling ability to make me think he'll succeed. Furthermore, as the fight wears on and the fighters tire, Nelson's chances of completing the takedown will diminish. One wouldn't think it by looking at him, but Nelson has good cardio. However, the accumulation of dos Santos' strikes will take their toll on his cardio if they don't put him away. dos Santos only needs to connect with one well-timed punch or combination and the fight could be over.


    Two of Nelson's four losses have come against the two best strikers he has faced, Rothwell and Arlovski. While both are great strikers (ok, Rothwell's standup is not great but it's still very dangerous), they are not as quick as JDS and there is no doubt JDS would be the huge favorite against either of them. If Nelson could not handle their striking, there is even less reason to think he'll survive this time. I like Nelson; he's a smart fighter and fun to watch. But I think Nelson's name recognition as an ultimate fighter winner is reflected in the odds, which are overestimating his chances. For Nelson to win, his only path to victory is a three round decision by outwrestling his opponent and avoiding his vicious strikes for three rounds. That would happen less than one out of four times, in my opinion. Even if the fight does go to decision, I dos Santos is more likely to have his hands raised.

    Taking dos Santos @-295 means we would expect him to win this matchup more than 74% of the time. That's a high percentage, but given Nelson's limited and unlikely path for victory, I am comfortable with this bet. I believe dos Santos wins this matchup at least three out of four times, and probably closer to four out of five. The edge is with JDS on this one.
  • Vaughany
    SBR Aristocracy
    • 03-07-10
    • 45563

    #2
    hmm not so confident...I will be making a small play on Dos Santos by decision tho if the odds are +600 or better.
    Comment
    • jin2daj
      SBR Wise Guy
      • 11-01-09
      • 816

      #3
      -295 makes it hard to play
      Comment
      • Shane
        SBR Sharp
        • 02-28-10
        • 466

        #4
        Really? I love Roy and all, but I don't see how this doesn't end up being a brutal KO victory for Dos Santos.
        Comment
        • playa420
          SBR Wise Guy
          • 03-09-08
          • 881

          #5
          Im loading up on dos Santos,its gonna be another devastating KO win for him
          Comment
          • Vaughany
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 03-07-10
            • 45563

            #6
            Can anybody tell me what the prop bet odds are on the US bookmakers currently? Dos Santos by TKO/KO and Dos Santos by decision?
            Comment
            • JuicedUp
              SBR MVP
              • 01-20-10
              • 3396

              #7
              Dos Santos by 3 rd dec: +497
              Comment
              • Kaladarus
                SBR MVP
                • 11-11-09
                • 1876

                #8
                Originally posted by Vaughany
                Can anybody tell me what the prop bet odds are on the US bookmakers currently? Dos Santos by TKO/KO and Dos Santos by decision?
                Haven't seen any for TKO/KO yet. Santos inside the distance is -185 though.
                Comment
                • Tree Rollins
                  SBR MVP
                  • 12-16-09
                  • 3968

                  #9
                  Roy Nelson has beaten Brendan Schaub and Stefan Struve in the UFC so far. He's about to take a step up to say the least.
                  Comment
                  • Jakesteen
                    SBR Wise Guy
                    • 04-22-10
                    • 653

                    #10
                    I don't think laying 295 is a good play even though JDS will Win. Anything can happen.
                    Comment
                    • illmatick
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 01-05-09
                      • 5456

                      #11
                      I've been going back and forth with this one
                      Comment
                      • GunShard
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 03-05-10
                        • 10031

                        #12
                        Dos Santos is underrated.
                        They may be even in striking, but Santos has an edge in submission if it comes down to that.
                        Comment
                        • Vaughany
                          SBR Aristocracy
                          • 03-07-10
                          • 45563

                          #13
                          Originally posted by GunShard
                          Dos Santos is underrated.
                          They may be even in striking, but Santos has an edge in submission if it comes down to that.
                          Nelson is a blackbelt who's fought in numerous tournaments and won while Dos Santos is only just a brown belt...which has clearly been given to him quite generously by Nog due to his rising reputation.
                          Comment
                          • GoldRush7
                            SBR MVP
                            • 04-27-09
                            • 2014

                            #14
                            I think that is way too much to lay on cigano... I like him, but I wouldn't underestimate the fat man. Especially at those odds
                            Comment
                            • lasker
                              SBR MVP
                              • 01-27-10
                              • 1683

                              #15
                              Originally posted by GunShard
                              Dos Santos is underrated.
                              They may be even in striking, but Santos has an edge in submission if it comes down to that.
                              I think you have it backwards. dos Santos has an obvious edge in striking. Nelson should have the edge in submissions but who knows by how much, if at all. Nobody's managed to get dos Santos to the ground so far.
                              Comment
                              • lasker
                                SBR MVP
                                • 01-27-10
                                • 1683

                                #16
                                Originally posted by GoldRush7
                                I think that is way too much to lay on cigano... I like him, but I wouldn't underestimate the fat man. Especially at those odds
                                Quite a few people seem to share this opinion. Perhaps. Personally, I think Cigano wins this matchup at least three out of four times, if not an even higher percentage, and anything 75% or above is value.
                                Comment
                                • Vaughany
                                  SBR Aristocracy
                                  • 03-07-10
                                  • 45563

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by lasker
                                  I think you have it backwards. dos Santos has an obvious edge in striking. Nelson should have the edge in submissions but who knows by how much, if at all. Nobody's managed to get dos Santos to the ground so far.
                                  Yes VERY backwards!
                                  Comment
                                  • Playmaker
                                    SBR Sharp
                                    • 12-15-08
                                    • 285

                                    #18
                                    I like JDS as well...Nice write up by the way...
                                    Comment
                                    • Pabinator
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 10-04-09
                                      • 1238

                                      #19
                                      I might not touch this one
                                      Shut your mouth when you talk to Me!
                                      Comment
                                      • Vrakas
                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                        • 02-27-10
                                        • 627

                                        #20
                                        jds should win as long as can concentrate on the fight.the huge bellyness is hard to look at and not laugh.
                                        Comment
                                        • cooldavid3169
                                          SBR Hustler
                                          • 06-19-10
                                          • 92

                                          #21
                                          I got nelson he is like Forrest a few years ago every fight you think he is overrated and he comes out and wins. Until he loses im going to pick him cause roy nelson is going to put him on his back and anything can happen there.
                                          Comment
                                          • lasker
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 01-27-10
                                            • 1683

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by cooldavid3169
                                            I got nelson he is like Forrest a few years ago every fight you think he is overrated and he comes out and wins. Until he loses im going to pick him cause roy nelson is going to put him on his back and anything can happen there.
                                            Fair enough. Just for the record, I bet on Nelson against both Schaub (in a huge bet) and Struve. I like Nelson a lot, I just think he's significantly outmatched here.
                                            Comment
                                            • westerner
                                              SBR High Roller
                                              • 05-02-10
                                              • 164

                                              #23
                                              there's a pig problem for Roy with JDS' speed, range and movement... if Roy gets him down he can tap him but he will get clipped before that happens. with that line its worth it to put some on Roy though
                                              Comment
                                              • Vrakas
                                                SBR Wise Guy
                                                • 02-27-10
                                                • 627

                                                #24
                                                roy will put up a good battle but in the end he will loose.
                                                Comment
                                                • sundin4prez
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 03-09-10
                                                  • 1970

                                                  #25
                                                  going with big country....but would not be surprises if jds handles him and you guys should just auto fade me with JDS bets since if bet against him for EVERY one of his ufc fights
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Tree Rollins
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 12-16-09
                                                    • 3968

                                                    #26
                                                    I hope Dos Santos knocks out Roy's cocky fat ass.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Tree Rollins
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 12-16-09
                                                      • 3968

                                                      #27
                                                      Roy Nelson is fat.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Kaladarus
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 11-11-09
                                                        • 1876

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Tree Rollins
                                                        Roy Nelson is fat.
                                                        He's not fat, he's "well rounded".
                                                        Comment
                                                        • sundin4prez
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 03-09-10
                                                          • 1970

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Kaladarus

                                                          He's not fat, he's "well rounded".
                                                          i like to call him meaty
                                                          Comment
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