1. #1
    Mudcat
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    Was Muhammed Ali the greatest?

    When people were doing athletes-of-the-century lists about 6 years ago, not only was he often the highest ranked boxer, he frequently made it into people's top 5 athletes overall.

    I don't buy it. Here's what I can't get past: 5 losses.

    When discussions on the subject occurred, I often got the feeling people were rating him so high for reasons other than boxing (i.e. social impact and being colorful). IMO those things shouldn't belong in the discussion.

    (And if you do want to talk about Ali, the man, he was very flawed and hypocritical. I'm not sure why people try so hard to make a saint out of him.)

    I have sympathy for his current condition but, I'm sorry, he just did too much losing to be considered the greatest. 5 losses? Come on. Marciano had none.

  2. #2
    bigboydan
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    it's really hard to say if he was really the greatest or not. there was so much fight fixing over the years, who really knows who was the greatest fighter of all time.

  3. #3
    moses millsap
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    He would've lost to Liston if that fight wasn't bought. I think it is grossly overrated. Don't get me wrong, I think he is one of the best, but overrated in terms of the accolades and praise he gets from the media.

  4. #4
    natrass
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    Personally, I say yes.

    In an age where we have zoned in athletes, a big pair of lungs, with sports psychologists pumping them up and the salaries they blow away win or lose ... it makes the McEnroes and Ali's of that era seem even better.

    REAL people succeeding in sport ... thats what its all about surely.

  5. #5
    BrentCrude
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    Aside from boxing,Ali is a big loser.I'm no extreme right winger and am a libertarian but when Ali protested the Viet Nam war he put all the blame on the U.S.A.Not a peep about the U.S.S.R.who helped turn all of Viet Nam into a communist nation making people wards of the state against their wishes.I thought Ali was for peace and freedom but when you think like a socialist I guess peace and freedom means being a ward of the state.

    Then he is supposed to be the most recognized person in the world and a spokeman for the Muslim cause.Where the hell is he if he's Mr.peace keeper of the world where he could mediate peace between the Muslim world and the west?Once again,not a peep.He's taking a convenient powder because he really doesn't give a care if the Muslims terrorize the world.Ali is a cartoon character and funny he didn't take part in the cartoon riots.I'm tired of the Bush's and Clinton's of the world saying he's the greatest showing up for his government subsidized museum and library openings.If some leader had the balls and dropped the political correctness B.S.he would tell Ali he's a phoney fraud mindless idiot that knows about as much at being a world spiritual leader as he knows about preparing pork dishes.
    Last edited by BrentCrude; 04-19-06 at 11:00 PM.

  6. #6
    Brick Tamland
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    can he be a top 5 athlete when you see what his sport did to him? i say no. Boxing is for old society. people live a lot longer today then they did back when boxin was respectd and u can see its effects.

  7. #7
    SBR_John
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    He fought in the era of all time great heavy weights and beat them all. I pulled against him in every one. How about when he fought 5 black belts for 1 round each and knocked 4 of them out? Greatest?? He is certainly one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, heavyweight fighter of all time.

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  8. #8
    imgv94
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWNED
    overrated. Don't get me wrong, I think he is one of the best, but overrated in terms of the accolades and praise he gets from the media.
    I couldn't of said it any better myself.

  9. #9
    The Great One
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    I'd love to go up to him today and just start way laying on him until he admits he's not a real person.

    And for the poster thats says, "Even at 121 years old, he'd still beat your ass" No he wouldn't and I would not let up either. Not until he couldn't move and thats counts those little invultary muscle twitches "Mr. racist" has.

    Thats what gets me about these self proclained good will ambassadors. They are the most racist on the planet, but yet some of you will defend him and then call me a racist because I'm smarter than you and understand the world in a way you never will.

    Like the Duke hooker/stripper is all of a sudden the most credible person because she's black and the other guys were white. So on Cold Pizza and all of those other shows just like it, there's an outcry that blacks should be scared to attend Duke or something; that it "just isn't fair". Allof this is because the hooker happened to be black. Who's more credible in this case-- the hooker or the students at a prestigous university(all color aside)

    I

  10. #10
    natrass
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    Thats what gets me about these self proclained good will ambassadors. They are the most racist on the planet, but yet some of you will defend him and then call me a racist because I'm smarter than you and understand the world in a way you never will.
    I know where you're coming from ... and today Id even agree with parts ... but I think Ali grew up in the 50s when America did have some laws that were just plain rascist at that time. I agree things have swung too far now in a lot of ways but he actually lived it so I think he has/had the right to "go on about it".

    That was the perversity about being asked to fight in a war for America against people hed never heard of ...

    ... as he said "No Vietnamese ever called me a ******".

  11. #11
    tacomax
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    Quote Originally Posted by natrass
    but I think Ali grew up in the 50s when America did have some laws that were just plain rascist at that time.
    Or - as TGO would call them - "The Good Old Days".

  12. #12
    Mudcat
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    This thread demonstrates one of my points. We're barely talking about boxing.

    Before his exile, he was undefeated - and did look like a guy who could someday lay claim to being The Greatest - but afterwards he had not 1, not 2, but 5 losses.

    When he was great, he was great but I don't think you can conveniently set aside such a big fact of his career.

  13. #13
    The Great One
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacomax
    Or - as TGO would call them - "The Good Old Days".

    I'm not racist. I'm just sick of all the political correctness that consumes America.

    There is far more reverse racism than anything else. Most blacks can't stand white guys. I could go on, but you would never understand. I don't think your mind is programmed to uderstand logic.

  14. #14
    The Great One
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudcat
    This thread demonstrates one of my points. We're barely talking about boxing.

    Before his exile, he was undefeated - and did look like a guy who could someday lay claim to being The Greatest - but afterwards he had not 1, not 2, but 5 losses.

    When he was great, he was great but I don't think you can conveniently set aside such a big fact of his career.

    Because the truth of it is there are only a few people old enought to see him actually fight live on here. I think most people on here are in their 20's and young 30's.. I've only seen him on ESPN Classic and even in his prime he looked fat and slow which goes on one of my points about old time sports not being real. After his rumored career, he still gets exposure to for hating whites. But see thats OK, because we owe him something because 30 years before iwas born, he was treated unfairly. yeah right.

    Just throw him off the bus at the next stop like they should have done to Rosa Parks.

  15. #15
    Dark Horse
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    He was the greatest boxer. By far. He totally changed the sport floating like a butterly, stinging like a bee. The only thing you could say against him is that he didn't know when to stop.

  16. #16
    SBR_John
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    Have you seen some of his early fights before he was into showmanship? They are showing them on the classic channel. No heavyweight ever faced the competition level that Ali faced. And Ali clowned them all. Yea later when he was making comebacks totally out of shape he took some L's.

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  17. #17
    Dark Horse
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    That's right. Ali was to boxing what Pele was to soccer. Nobody would think any less of Pele because he finished his career with the New York Cosmos.

  18. #18
    imgv94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudcat
    Before his exile, he was undefeated - and did look like a guy who could someday lay claim to being The Greatest - but afterwards he had not 1, not 2, but 5 losses.

    When he was great, he was great but I don't think you can conveniently set aside such a big fact of his career.
    I have to agree. 5 Losses does have to come into
    play when declaring him "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME"

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