Halladay is there a problem brewing?

[G's pks]

Ok another great performance...but did I just hear he went the distance today in a blow out? Anyone remember the combo of Kerry Wood and Mark Prior? When Baker was the manager of the Cubs he ruined these two by leavng them in too long every time..

[mcbaseball10]

The difference is those guys were young and were not ready for that many pitches. Halladay has been doing it for awhile now just like CC. They are veterans who are used to the wear.

[G's pks]

True...but do you think they were trying to send a message to the Mets? I just hope it was worth it... Why leave him in with a 10-0 lead?

[dwaechte]

Halladay is a horse, he will be fine.

[mcbaseball10]

True...but do you think they were trying to send a message to the Mets? I just hope it was worth it... Why leave him in with a 10-0 lead?

Don't know about sending message. More of a reward to Halladay to get the complete game shutout. Saves the bullpen. Look at how many complete games hes had over the last few years. Nobody used to question leaving Nolan Ryan in to throw complete games.

[G's pks]

Don't know about sending message. More of a reward to Halladay to get the complete game shutout. Saves the bullpen. Look at how many complete games hes had over the last few years. Nobody used to question leaving Nolan Ryan in to throw complete games.

Funny you mentioned Ryan... I was thinking Mark Prior was the second coming of Tom Seaver! The talent Wood and Prior had..what a shame for the Cubbies....their best chance to break the curse ever...

[Wilforth]

But why let him go the distance with such a comfortable lead?

[gryfyn1]

The difference is those guys were young and were not ready for that many pitches. Halladay has been doing it for awhile now just like CC. They are veterans who are used to the wear.

exactly, Halliday is more established in his habits, plus only threw 118 pitches over 9 innings, plus his totals have been light so far, 88/7;111/9;100/8;113/8;104/7

Prior also saw a bug jump in IP from about 150 to 215 - Both he and Wood were also was thowing alot of high stress games throwing more pitches over shorter spans.

[mcbaseball10]

But why let him go the distance with such a comfortable lead?

Putting pitchers on a low pitch count is a relatively recent strategy (relative to history of baseball), last 10 years or so has become the norm. However each individual pitcher has his own threshold of how many pitches he can throw before he needs to come out. By stretching him out for the full 9 innings he is conditioning his body and arm to be prepared to go the distance in every game. The difference between Lee, Halladay, Sabathia is they go out every game with the mindset of going the distance. Most of the young pitchers have conditioned their minds and bodies that if they can throw a good 6-7 innings then they have done their job.

So I guess my point is Halladay going the distance in a blowout really isn't that big of a deal.

[mebaran]

Funny you mentioned Ryan... I was thinking Mark Prior was the second coming of Tom Seaver! The talent Wood and Prior had..what a shame for the Cubbies....their best chance to break the curse ever...

Yes...I remember the Sports Illustrated cover that year with the Title "Hell Freezes Over: The Cubs Will Win the World Series". That sucked in a major way haha.

But yes, the difference is that Halladay's delivery has been honed throughout his whole career to allow him to use as little energy as possible (he uses his whole body instead of slinging it like some relievers).

Plus, I think the Phillies are PLANNING on having Halladay go every 6th day, meaning that other pitcher's starts will get moved back so he can get more innings in. There is absolutely NO leash with this guy, and the Phillies are taking advantage. Now their bullpen gets a recoup.

[mebaran]

exactly, Halliday is more established in his habits, plus only threw 118 pitches over 9 innings, plus his totals have been light so far, 88/7;111/9;100/8;113/8;104/7

Prior also saw a bug jump in IP from about 150 to 215 - Both he and Wood were also was thowing alot of high stress games throwing more pitches over shorter spans.

...AND (I don't think anyone remembers this) Kerry Wood's mechanics were HORRIBLE. He threw his slurve in a way that put unnecessary amounts of stress on his elbow. If you go back and watch some film, you can see that there is absolutely no way to get that amount of break without doing serious damage to your arm...which he did.

[G's pks]

Yes...I remember the Sports Illustrated cover that year with the Title "Hell Freezes Over: The Cubs Will Win the World Series". That sucked in a major way haha.

But yes, the difference is that Halladay's delivery has been honed throughout his whole career to allow him to use as little energy as possible (he uses his whole body instead of slinging it like some relievers).

Plus, I think the Phillies are PLANNING on having Halladay go every 6th day, meaning that other pitcher's starts will get moved back so he can get more innings in. There is absolutely NO leash with this guy, and the Phillies are taking advantage. Now their bullpen gets a recoup.

the kiss of death that cover!

[G's pks]

....

[cantin]

A seasoned vet knows his limits. He and Sabathia are beasts on the mound.

[gryfyn1]

...AND (I don't think anyone remembers this) Kerry Wood's mechanics were HORRIBLE. He threw his slurve in a way that put unnecessary amounts of stress on his elbow. If you go back and watch some film, you can see that there is absolutely no way to get that amount of break without doing serious damage to your arm...which he did.

Prior's Mechanics were all that great either, and got signifcantly worse as racked up innings and pitches:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/breaking-down-the-broken-down-a-video-analysis-of-mark-prior/

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/MarkPriorPitchingMechanics_ADifferentPerspective.html

[gryfyn1]

over all the fact that every team dosen't have a Biomechanics library to compare their pitchers to detect changes in mechanics due to workload that may put a pitcher at risk during the season is astonishing.

[antifoil]

a better dusty baker analogy is leake already pitching in the majors and how his innings will be managed

[texhooper]

...AND (I don't think anyone remembers this) Kerry Wood's mechanics were HORRIBLE. He threw his slurve in a way that put unnecessary amounts of stress on his elbow. If you go back and watch some film, you can see that there is absolutely no way to get that amount of break without doing serious damage to your arm...which he did.

i remember. and no young pro should have elbow problems like he had, much less any pro pitcher at all. it's like the ultimate sign of bad mechanics.

[mitote]

a better dusty baker analogy is leake already pitching in the majors and how his innings will be managed

Leake will B the next Prior or Wood with Baker! Baker already has a track record!

[Mikail]

I believe that a 10-0 lead is a comfortable posistion but we all know the situation regarding the Phillies bullpen. Questionable. I think he she have been pulled personally at that point but it worked out well today.

[G's pks]

Leake will B the next Prior or Wood with Baker! Baker already has a track record!

[awholelottalumps]

Theories is all i here.Bunch of bs is you ask me.The truth is no one no what the **** is going to happen in sports day to day.Take Butler for example in the ncaa tournament who the **** thought they would have a chance to win it all at the end.Sports betting is crazy and when you win your just lucky that's all nothing more.My advice never get greedy because the world doesn't owe you or me shit.Good luck to you in the future and I hope you have better days then bad my friend.God bless.

[SKiLLsSoLoN]

Yeah Phi got the job done and did a really good job. Made a nice RL win for myself.

[Andy117]

Pitch counts are nonsense. Let the guy throw.

[Jericholic]

Halladay is a rare breed. I don't think many people are worried about it.

[gryfyn1]

Pitch counts are nonsense. Let the guy throw.

Thats also wrong..

When it comes to pitch counts and workloads there is a severe lack of critical thinking.

Pitch counts will give you a good idea of the amount of stress a pitcher is enduring, and not just pitch count by high stress innings, a pitcher throwing 100 pitches over 8 innings is far less stress than 100 pitches over 5 inning.

Not only that each pitcher is different in thier stress levels - it becomes obvious when we realize that some pitchers struggle after 30-40 picthes; we make them relievers - And there seems to be some odd obssesion with thinking there is a hard cap of 100 pitches.

Different pitchers can handle different loads, one pitcher may be able to throw 115 pitches on a regular basis another 95

[HilltopTony]

I think he threw 114 pitches for the game. the impressive part was I saw he had 93 pitches after 6 innings which means he pitched the 7th, 8th and 9th innings throwing only 21 TOTAL!! Halladay is going to be fine, he's a throwback pitcher and many people probably are too young to realize Pitchers like Nolan Ryan who played until he was 46 used to throw 150+ pitches one game and come back every 4 days and do it again!

[Andy117]

Thats also wrong..

When it comes to pitch counts and workloads there is a severe lack of critical thinking.

Pitch counts will give you a good idea of the amount of stress a pitcher is enduring, and not just pitch count by high stress innings, a pitcher throwing 100 pitches over 8 innings is far less stress than 100 pitches over 5 inning.

Not only that each pitcher is different in thier stress levels - it becomes obvious when we realize that some pitchers struggle after 30-40 picthes; we make them relievers - And there seems to be some odd obssesion with thinking there is a hard cap of 100 pitches.

Different pitchers can handle different loads, one pitcher may be able to throw 115 pitches on a regular basis another 95

Pitch counts have ruined starting pitching. There's no logical reason that starters of today with better training and nutrition and more rest can't throw like the starters of 20 or 30 years ago. They aren't getting hurt any less than those guys did.