1. #1
    sarkami
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    BET-IBC Betfair problem [Resolved]

    MOD EDIT: Issue resolved and player funds returned by Betfair on Nov 1st.


    Dear Community,


    since ~2.5 years
    i have an direct api Betfair Exchange Account from Bet-Ibc and had never problems. Some years ago they closed all direct Betfair Accounts and kept only a few who had good turnovers. i payed a 5 digits premium charges (20% pc) and 5 digits their high deposit and withdrawl charges with this Account.

    Suddenly on the 02.08.19 the Account was closed by Betfair without prior notice to bet-ibc and without giving information which of the betfair t&c i have supposedly breached! Bet-Ibc said that Betfair will retain all funds!

    "Your account has been closed permanently and is not to be reopened.
    The funds on the account are to be retained. This is all in line with our terms and conditions."


    although betfair supposedly did not even comment on the reason and giving no information which t&c are breached, for Bet-Ibc its clear that its my fault and i have to take the loss.

    With this 'reasoning' bet-ibc can close everyones Account, anytime and retain your funds!!!

    i had a betfair balance of: ~3200 and made a deposit on 2.8.19 of 2300. My last bets should be from the 28.7.19: this means that a havent made a single bet with the deposited money on 2.8.19 because the account was closed immediately after the deposit.
    my bets were only 1x2 bets on the higher volume soccer matches.

    last bets:







    today i made a SBR Sportsbook complaint

    Kind regards
    Last edited by Optional; 11-05-19 at 02:45 AM. Reason: update thread at OP request

  2. #2
    Optional
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    Betfair have done this before to Bet-IBC users and we have discussed it with their owner.

    He says that there really is nothing they can do to appeal decisions like this.

    If Betfair have done this due to AML or SoF concerns, then they won't tell Bet-IBC anything. They just report it and say nothing under their terms.

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  3. #3
    lonnie55
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    So they say it's Betfair's decision and there is nothing they can do about? How do we know that it was Betfair who confiscated the money?
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  4. #4
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonnie55 View Post
    So they say it's Betfair's decision and there is nothing they can do about? How do we know that it was Betfair who confiscated the money?
    Last time this came up, Bet-IBC ended up getting on chat with Betfair and explained the customer was questioning them that it really was Betfair taking the action until the agent at least confirmed that part.

    But given this happens so rarely (that we know of) I don't suspect it's a cash grab by a lying agent personally.

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  5. #5
    dealer wins
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    How can betfair say money laundering/SOW issues when the funds are not coming from the customer but via the agent?
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  6. #6
    Alfie White
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    Sarkami, is this account under your name on Betfair?

  7. #7
    fried cheese
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    so if they confiscate your funds for money laundering and you are never charged with a crime, do they get to keep the money or is the british government taking it?
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  8. #8
    sarkami
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    Thank you all for replying to this thread


    Quote Originally Posted by lonnie55 View Post
    So they say it's Betfair's decision and there is nothing they can do about? How do we know that it was Betfair who confiscated the money?
    We dont know it. Bet-ibc gave no proofs at all (for example a Screenshot), they only wrote me what Betfair supposedly told them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Betfair have done this before to Bet-IBC users...
    Is this kind of Problem (Closed Betfair Account without a Reason) only occured with Bet-Ibc customers but not with any customer from the other Agents?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    Sarkami, is this account under your name on Betfair?
    No, the Account is created on a person unknown to me: a girl named Valeria, from a town in Moldau (have Screens from all the Account details).


    Quote Originally Posted by dealer wins View Post
    How can betfair say money laundering/SOW issues when the funds are not coming from the customer but via the agent?
    Good question.
    The Account has no relations at all to me: Its made on another name, country (i am from germany), address, email, telephone Nr.. Bet-ibc created this Account and gave it to me 2.5 years ago.
    i made all my transactions from my already 12 years existing skrill/neteller Account (These ewallets are funded by my german Bank Account and in these 12 years i had never any Problems with Skrill/Neteller) only to bet-ibc: . Bet-Ibc made all transactions between them and Betfair.
    Last edited by Optional; 09-05-19 at 01:19 AM. Reason: remove account email

  9. #9
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarkami View Post
    Is this kind of Problem (Closed Betfair Account without a Reason) only occured with Bet-Ibc customers but not with any customer from the other Agents?
    No. It is not super common but Betfair have done this enough times before that we know it is a real thing.

    Here is another current case through AC88 of the same thing: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...-unfairly.html



    Have you asked IBC if the reason is related to your personal activity or the fake account they gave you to use? And if the latter, why are they not making you good themselves?

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  10. #10
    Alfie White
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    100% Betfair found out that account is under different name.

    To be honest, you should hold Bet-IBC accountable for every single penny there since they have opened up that account for you. On the other side, you can wait for SBR complaint to be done and then prepare all the evidence and go directly to Betfair and report all of that to them. There has been another situation similar to this as Opti is saying; there is a thread on another forum, but the customer was left without of funds and he also had account under different name...

    BTW, ****** is that their Merchant account or is it private one?
    Last edited by Optional; 09-05-19 at 01:19 AM. Reason: remove account email
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  11. #11
    Optional
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    Please do not go into too much detail about their payment systems guys. No need to publish exact account names in public.

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  12. #12
    sarkami
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Please do not go into too much detail about their payment systems guys. No need to publish exact account names in public.
    yes ok, but the addresses are public information anyway: https://bet-ibc.com/deposit-and-withdrawal-options/

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    100% Betfair found out that account is under different name.

    To be honest, you should hold Bet-IBC accountable for every single penny there since they have opened up that account for you. On the other side, you can wait for SBR complaint to be done and then prepare all the evidence and go directly to Betfair and report all of that to them. There has been another situation similar to this as Opti is saying; there is a thread on another forum, but the customer was left without of funds and he also had account under different name...

    BTW, ****** is that their Merchant account or is it private one?
    Yes thats quite possible, thanks for your considerations. We all see that Bet-Ibcs early judging: to see the error only in me is clearly unfair.
    BTW i think its not an merchant account.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Have you asked IBC if the reason is related to your personal activity or the fake account they gave you to use? And if the latter, why are they not making you good themselves?
    Yes, i asked them the reasons after they wrote this:
    ''...We did not receive any funds of your account from Betfair and Betfair wrote „The funds on the account are to be retained. This is all in line with our terms and conditions“...''

    I answered:
    ''...As a broker you are responsible to receive the funds from your partner betfair, not me, the customer of the broker.
    But you want that i take the loss?...''

    Bet-Ibc:
    ''...As a broker, we are responsible for the money which is available to withdraw from a bookie account.
    In that case, Betfair did not send any money and did not even comment on the reason why your account got closed and the money retained.

    We have no information what you did, which IP you used, which trading software, which bets you did, etc...'' So we cannot be held responsible for that at all...''
    This shows that Bet-Ibc sees the problem rather in my personal activity (...you did, you used, you did...) than in their fake account, although they dont know the reason at all.

    me:
    ''...'So we cannot be held responsible for that at all' but me, thats why i have to take the loss and not you, although you said that betfair 'did not even comment on the reason'?
    Your statement is contradictory: when betfair gave no reason, how you know it was my fault and not yours?...''
    because they didnt answer this question, i asked them this twice. No direct answer again on this question, and the ending from them was ''...no futher comments will be made on that case...''

  13. #13
    Optional
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    They are probably telling the truth about the Betfair information being almost nothing.

    I have spoken to the owner there a few times and he can be flexible/reasonable if approached the right way.

    I'd suggest to him as a long term customer, and with both of you unsure what went on here, that he might consider sharing the loss with you. He may respond to a reasonable suggestion like that. As I doubt he will change his mind about covering the entire amount based on that conversation.

    Maybe even mention to him that I suggested this idea as a fair way to go.

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  14. #14
    Alfie White
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    Or just contact Skrill and report they (Bet-IBC) are using private account to run their business and request that money back; see what Skrill does in that case.

  15. #15
    lonnie55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    Or just contact Skrill and report they (Bet-IBC) are using private account to run their business and request that money back; see what Skrill does in that case.
    AC does the same btw

  16. #16
    dealer wins
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    So Betfair can just confiscate a large balance from an account without giving any reason and the customer (Who is almost certainly completely legit and innocent in this case) can do nothing about it? This is so wrong
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  17. #17
    lonnie55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dealer wins View Post
    So Betfair can just confiscate a large balance from an account without giving any reason and the customer (Who is almost certainly completely legit and innocent in this case) can do nothing about it? This is so wrong
    Yeah, and the bad thing about it is that players start to accept these methods because they feel powerless towards books. This is an alarming development!

    No matter if your efforts are effective or not you have to give the book at least a hard time when it acts like that. Let the book, the authorities, the public know that these methods are not right and should be proscribed.

    The culture of accepting the omnipotence of a book is self-defeating and leads to a further expansion of the bookie's power. This can't be in anyone's interest

  18. #18
    jjgold
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    its a lesson not to play at brokers

  19. #19
    piterp
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    Bet-IBC very clearly not offer security for customer funds-their agreement with betfair put customer in vulnerable position with zero responsibility from Bet-IBC.


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  20. #20
    Alfie White
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    its a lesson not to play at brokers

  21. #21
    sarkami
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonnie55 View Post
    AC does the same btw
    Yeah, its not unusual that some agents are using private ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    They are probably telling the truth about the Betfair information being almost nothing.

    I have spoken to the owner there a few times and he can be flexible/reasonable if approached the right way.

    I'd suggest to him as a long term customer, and with both of you unsure what went on here, that he might consider sharing the loss with you. He may respond to a reasonable suggestion like that. As I doubt he will change his mind about covering the entire amount based on that conversation.

    Maybe even mention to him that I suggested this idea as a fair way to go.
    Thank you Optional for your suggestion.

    Its a hard decision for me to pass on the half of the money, cause i see no error on my side. I would like to go further steps to prove that i am legit and discuss this with Betfair, or write Ibas etc but i cant and BET-IBC isnt interested. Its a pity, cause in other cases from other clients of them in the past we see that if BET-IBC keeps asking Betfair, they can get an answer sooner or later:

    ********

    BET-IBC said: ''We have no information what you did, which IP you used, which trading software, which bets you did, etc...'' Lets go into this further:
    2.5 years i have this Account, everything running constantly; i always used the ip suggested from BET-IBC: Their Remote Desktop Connection (always same moldau IP), even on my last screens that i made right before the closure, its visible in the background that im logged in with BET-IBCs remote IP.
    The trading software that i used (Betangel and Fairbot, both legit Betfair software) was only installed on the Remote Desktop, so no mistakes here possible. And all my last bets you saw too.
    But even when i should have breached any of these from Bet-Ibc listed things, would Betfair close an Account without even giving a reason? Unlikely, then Betfair would close with giving a reason (for example: wrong ip or passing funds etc). More likely here are AML or SoF concerns (all transactions were only between Betfair and BET-IBCs Money Pool) or Betfair found out that BET-IBCs-BF-Account is Fake, and this Problem is also only related to BET-IBC.

    Please give me some days to think about your suggestion Optional.

    What does the community say, what would you do in my stead?
    Last edited by Optional; 11-05-19 at 11:25 AM. Reason: OP requested edit

  22. #22
    piterp
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    In your case betfair is not side because you have agreement with BET-IBC
    only way is put BET-IBC under pressure for example letter from lawyer

  23. #23
    sarkami
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I have spoken to the owner there a few times and he can be flexible/reasonable if approached the right way.

    I'd suggest to him as a long term customer, and with both of you unsure what went on here, that he might consider sharing the loss with you. He may respond to a reasonable suggestion like that. As I doubt he will change his mind about covering the entire amount based on that conversation.

    Maybe even mention to him that I suggested this idea as a fair way to go.
    Ok Optional,

    would you please go ahead and speak with the owner about this case too and your suggestion?

    Your experience in such cases is unmatched and when you say that you doubt that BET-IBC will change his mind about covering the entire amount then i accept this.

    With me BET-IBC has stopped to communicate ''no futher comments will be made on that case'' so i came here to hope for the power of SBR and the community.

    My biggest wish would be to ask them about making a final attempt to ask Betfair what the reason of the closure is.



    Lets see whether BET-IBC is 'resonable' or not.

    The exciting phase of this case has begun.

  24. #24
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarkami View Post

    Ok Optional,

    would you please go ahead and speak with the owner about this case too and your suggestion?

    Your experience in such cases is unmatched and when you say that you doubt that BET-IBC will change his mind about covering the entire amount then i accept this.

    With me BET-IBC has stopped to communicate ''no futher comments will be made on that case'' so i came here to hope for the power of SBR and the community.

    My biggest wish would be to ask them about making a final attempt to ask Betfair what the reason of the closure is.



    Lets see whether BET-IBC is 'resonable' or not.

    The exciting phase of this case has begun.
    No problem.

    Please PM me your account ID there.


    Have you asked for this yourself yet?
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  25. #25
    sarkami
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    PMed!

    My last correspondence with them was on 26.08.

    I seriously doubt that they will answer me now and if so their answer will be negative i'm sure, thats why i didnt asked them.

    The only thing who can change this and bring me at least a part of my money back is SBRs voice i think.

  26. #26
    sarkami
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    bump

  27. #27
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarkami View Post
    PMed!

    My last correspondence with them was on 26.08.

    I seriously doubt that they will answer me now and if so their answer will be negative i'm sure, thats why i didnt asked them.

    The only thing who can change this and bring me at least a part of my money back is SBRs voice i think.
    Sorry for the delay. Did not see your PM before today. And also sorry for the bad news.

    The owner at Bet-IBC replied and says that they will not consider a good will decision to share the loss as you "attempted to blackmail them".

    They claim that you threatened to try and damage their relationship with Betfair, said you would report the service they had been supplying to you as a scam to licencors and media, and advised them that you had engaged a lawyer and were therefore invoking legal remedy. Which is why they ceased any communication, awaiting arrival of your legal claim for their lawyers to handle.

    Anyway, long story short, they basically said they won't do anything for you or speak to you again.

    I don't think anything SBR can say or do is going to change that now. :\

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  28. #28
    Alfie White
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    "Damage their relation with Betfair"

    So, providing 3rd party account will not damage their relationship with Betfair, but this will? You should contact MGA now and say that Betfair is giving accounts to 3rd parties from restricted countries and see what happens. F all of them.

  29. #29
    piterp
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    Even if sbr try get some money back for this guy ,they never want really pay him-it just excuse from them
    Just another company with curacao licence.......

  30. #30
    sarkami
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    wow, all the money is gone, thats a huge blow for me...

    Imagine you are legit and suddenly your all your funds are retained, a nightmare.


    And when you want to talk about this injustice with the community in the forums, they accuse you to blackmail them!

    @Optional The steps with: ''Media, licensors and lawyer'' i mentioned only after they told me their final decision to pay me nothing back and only after they accused me blackmail. Getting help from the community was the blackmail for them.

    From the day on Betfair closed the Account they only want to get rid of me as fast and quiet as possible.

    BET-IBC is such a shady agent.

  31. #31
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarkami View Post
    wow, all the money is gone, thats a huge blow for me...

    Imagine you are legit and suddenly your all your funds are retained, a nightmare.


    And when you want to talk about this injustice with the community in the forums, they accuse you to blackmail them!

    @Optional The steps with: ''Media, licensors and lawyer'' i mentioned only after they told me their final decision to pay me nothing back and only after they accused me blackmail. Getting help from the community was the blackmail for them.

    From the day on Betfair closed the Account they only want to get rid of me as fast and quiet as possible.

    BET-IBC is such a shady agent.
    That's not quite right.

    He sent me a copy of a conversation where you discussed this.

    Anyway, he was very adamant that all bridges have been burned and they would not consider sharing the loss. And as their terms do say they are not responsible in this situation, I don't feel able to really argue the point or apply much pressure.

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  32. #32
    lonnie55
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    They accused me of blackmailing on a different matter. As I said before, their support is so rude and their business conduct definitely questionable when it comes to fees and hidden fees etc. So I really feel for the OP here. It's hard to stay calm when talking to their support.

  33. #33
    Alfie White
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    Maybe you should report their Skrill account now, directly to FCA possibly and see what happens.

  34. #34
    sarkami
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    That's not quite right.

    He sent me a copy of a conversation where you discussed this.

    Anyway, he was very adamant that all bridges have been burned and they would not consider sharing the loss. And as their terms do say they are not responsible in this situation, I don't feel able to really argue the point or apply much pressure.
    Excuse me, but what is not quite right Optional?

    Sorry, english isnt my native Language, but i try my best.

    As you can see on the following screens, the steps with: ''Media, licensors and lawyer'' i mentioned (26.8. 22:17 german time) only after they told me their final decision to pay me nothing back and only after they accused me blackmail (26.8. 21:22). Getting help from the community (''i prefer all your upcoming answers on english, because soon other people will read this'') was the blackmail for them. My 22:17 Email was after their 21:22 Email.





    Last edited by sarkami; 09-29-19 at 05:50 PM.

  35. #35
    ShanghaiBeijing1
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    I just scanned through Betfair's T&C and based on what's been stated so far on this thread, there are several violations of Betfair's 'Account Terms and Conditions of use'. Both the OP and Bet-IBC were in violation of these terms.

    Betfair notes that they reserve the right to seize some or all of the funds' if you breach their T&C. Whether they have the 'right' to do this probably has to be tested in court, but I don't see OP making this argument so it's irrelevant at this point.

    As far as what's relevant, It begs credulity to assume that Bet-IBC is unaware of which specific conditions Betfair is alleging were beached. There's no logical reason that I could think of for Betfair not to disclose this information at the time of account closure or if asked after the seizure. There are many reasons why Bet-IBC would not want to share the specific reason(s) with the OP, especially if it's related (as I suspect) to one or more of the Account T&C's that they (and the OP) clearly violated here.

    Furthermore, Bet-IBC claim that they 'have no information on what you did' and so forth is simply a lie and a strawman that sets up their claim that they cannot be held responsible at all. I don't know where I stand in terms of whether they are in fact responsible and therefore should share in OP's loss or make he/she whole. I do know that Bet-IBC's lies and disposition to obfuscate details and information is insulting, trumpian, entirely unprofessional, and is a common theme in many post involving Bet-IBC on SBR.

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