Argentina to win World cup +1000

**JOHON8** · 03-10-10, 12:39 PM

Spain have proved to beat the best in Europe in the last 2 years, and Brazil are really the only competition left. Argentina can go far but they are not a WC winning team this year. England and Holland can go far but they have so many reasons to choke as usual. Also people say Ivory Coast are "dark horses", yet they couldn't play solid to win their own nations Cup.

Just look back at the friendlies for clues on how dominant Spain and Brazil were playing as a team and creating goals as a team.

**Dark Horse** · 03-10-10, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by RbN

What about mid 90s? where we did dominate europe winning the champions league in 1994-1995 and runner up in the next year cuz Juventus used drugs (yes this came out few years later).

In these times Ajax didnt have much money also like Juventus, Milan, Barcelona etc. Most of the people use the money as a big excuse, but still you can be very succesfull nowadays if there is a good brain behind the club and no trainer changes once or twice a year

That was right before the situation in Europe changed. That squad went back to Cruyff's stint as coach ten years earlier. Van Gaal perfected it, and that team was incredible. I was astonished after the final in Vienna when Kluivert, who was 17 and not even a starter, announced he would stay at least another year with Ajax...

**JOHON8** · 03-10-10, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by RbN

Brazil got a alcoholic upfront

.

Brazil team has lost a lot of quality the past years I think.....I liked players as Cafu, Dunga, Taffarel, Rivaldo, Bebeto

I can see Germany, Spain also as the big favorites. Yes the Germans, they have a great mentality altougt they dont have the most talented squad.

Did you watch Brazil vs Ireland? They scored the best team-made goal in the competition. They won the Confederations Cup in the summer, coming back from a 2-0 deficit to win 3-2 in the final. Brazil have more quality than they did last year as a team.

Germany doesn't have a chance. They are very poor and evidence was in the Argentina game where they can't score on a team that builds defense on Maradona's tactics...

**Dark Horse** · 03-10-10, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by JOHON8

Did you watch Brazil vs Ireland? They scored the best team-made goal in the competition. They won the Confederations Cup in the summer, coming back from a 2-0 deficit to win 3-2 in the final. Brazil have more quality than they did last year as a team.

Germany doesn't have a chance. They are very poor and evidence was in the Argentina game where they can't score on a team that builds defense on Maradona's tactics...

That was a friendly. And the Confederations Cup means nothing. The USA was in the final...

For the World Cup the final month of preparation is very important. That's when the players gel (or not). Germany doesn't need loads of talent to be solid. They are very hard to beat because they're so disciplined. They're always a contender.

**RbN** · 03-10-10, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by demize21

first off of your referring to Adriano his not even major factor in the squad don't forget about Fabiano kaka robinho kiebler the list goes on Adriano will bee in shape and sure will see him this weekends classico with vasco DA Gamma which fellow beast vagner love which may make the squad as well dunga has not made any final team and wont till last minute so be prepared cause all of your euro, Asia ,America , teams,etc the best players are BRAZILIAN with exception of 2 messi and C. Ronaldo

Read the quote and remember it!!!!

Fabiano is a great striker, true. Behind Fabiano theres a big empty space.
Kaka is a bit overrated, good if he is on the counter(Milan)he needs space, but not in a attacking squad like Real or Brazil, you can see him fail at Real Madrid, too much Pressure? Why didnt he show his exceptional qualities in the Brazil squad as the big man? The only reason he is still a regular in Madrid is because of the huge transfer amount and the merchandising, if not, a decend guy as Van der Vaart would already taken over his place.
Robinho? He didnt show anything at Real or Man City, the name is bigger as the real football skills.

Besides, Brazil is not even thight squad. They will fail facing Spain, England, Germany (on a big tournament).

@Dark horse, after the Bosman arrest, everything got more worse indeed. But still that time, Ajax couldnt compete on money with other European teams.

Still I think if there is a great view, idea and a steady situation behind a club, with the Ajax youth, they can still be succesfull and play a part in Europe. A good example of this was Porto, few years back. Ajax is steady now, we used about 12 trainers the last 10 years. Jol will stay for atleast 3 years to build a thight squad with many youngsters, lets see where this will bring us. For the first in the last years we are playing pretty impressive now, scoring a lot of goals and having a steady defense. Not to mention the overall age is about 22

**Gargamel** · 03-10-10, 12:55 PM

Good enough discussion. As I mentioned earlier though a European team has never won the World Cup when stages outside Europe, the problems they have with being far away from home is far bigger than any weather problem Brazil might have.

Also, look at Brazil's history and winning experience. Other teams don't have that. I can see Germany, Spain, England or Argentina winning of course - after all a knock out tournament has luck involved - but don't come here talking about Holland or Portugal. And the worst part is that somebody said they were UNDERRATED?

Dear Portuguese friends - you can't win a big tournament WITHOUT STRIKERS. To me the Portuguese national team of the last five years or so is the most overrated national side ever. I think Holland lacks winning mentality as well although they are slightly stronger.

No other team are even close to the strength in depth of Brazil. They probably have 50 players over there that most Europeans like me have never heard of that would make almost any squad in the tournament. And their starting XI is absolutely good enough on all positions. They even have a strong keeper, for once.

**demize21** · 03-10-10, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by RbN

Fabiano is a great striker, true. Behind Fabiano theres a big empty space.
Kaka is a bit overrated, good if he is on the counter(Milan)he needs space, but not in a attacking squad like Real or Brazil, you can see him fail at Real Madrid, too much Pressure? Why didnt he show his exceptional qualities in the Brazil squad as the big man? The only reason he is still a regular in Madrid is because of the huge transfer amount and the merchandising, if not, a decend guy as Van der Vaart would already taken over his place.
Robinho? He didnt show anything at Real or Man City, the name is bigger as the real football skills.

Besides, Brazil is not even thight squad. They will fail facing Spain, England, Germany (on a big tournament).

when your not happy you rnot gonna do well robinhos never was happy away from home he wanted to rape the euros for the money and come back home throughout qualifying friendlies etc hes played well kakka yes has to be more of a presence but so many others to choose from nilmar tardelli love the list goes on and on best goalie inthe world hands down hsnt had the gratest of years so far but with the brazillian defense dont see much scoring by the oposition

**Dark Horse** · 03-10-10, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by RbN

@Dark horse, after the Bosman arrest, everything got more worse indeed. But still that time, Ajax couldnt compete on money with other European teams.

Still I think if there is a great view, idea and a steady situation behind a club, with the Ajax youth, they can still be succesfull and play a part in Europe. A good example of this was Porto, few years back. Ajax is steady now, we used about 12 trainers the last 10 years. Jol will stay for atleast 3 years to build a thight squad with many youngsters, lets see where this will bring us. For the first in the last years we are playing pretty impressive now, scoring a lot of goals and having a steady defense. Not to mention the overall age is about 22

It's possible. If all the pieces fall in the right place. But only for a very short spell. They can't build on success, year after year, like other teams in Europe, because those teams will just buy the best players Ajax has.

It would help if they can get a 'master' like Litmanen. Great pity he never got to play in the World Cup. One of the best.

**RbN** · 03-10-10, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by demize21

when your not happy you rnot gonna do well robinhos never was happy away from home he wanted to rape the euros for the money and come back home throughout qualifying friendlies etc hes played well kakka yes has to be more of a presence but so many others to choose from nilmar tardelli love the list goes on and on best goalie inthe world hands down hsnt had the gratest of years so far but with the brazillian defense dont see much scoring by the oposition

Tardelli? isnt that te guy who failed at Psv Eindhoven

, what a joke. Ive heard he is scoring some goals overthere, but for as far as I remember he was so worse.

Julio Cesar is indeed a very good goalie.

Alves, Maicon are really great, so is Andre Santos, doing a great job at Fenerbahce. The one I dont like is Lucio, he makes too may mistakes and isnt good with playing with space in his back, which wil Brazil surely have dominating matches.

Do you know Dalton? What you think of him? I think he is a great prospect.

@Dark Horse,

Thats right, big teams will buy our best players, this will continue until they finally put a salary cap and a new rule to field x domestic players at the club. The important thing is, the club has to be steady, making sure there is a new youngster ready in case the best player on that position is getting sold. The last thing they are pretty busy on now...scouting young players to get ready for the job in case first team regulars leave. We have recently signed Boilesen, biggest defensive prospect from Denmark, he will be ready when Alderweireld or Vertonghen leave. Also the directors told we will be keeping our players longer at the club, they finally see we wont get anywhere with just money on the bank (which is getting empty now too haha).

Lets see what futures brings, we dont have to win the Champions league, I would be happy if we could atleast play any part in the Champions League again.

**Wilforth** · 03-10-10, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

The i think Maradona is an idiot factor is huge. Im very concerned about there defense but im telling you they way they qualified has something magical about it.

That's why I'm also backing them. Teams that qualify that way often tend to do great at the tournament.

**lakerboy** · 03-10-10, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Wilforth

That's why I'm also backing them. Teams that qualify that way often tend to do great at the tournament.

Exactly like they did in mexico.

**RbN** · 03-10-10, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Exactly like they did in mexico.

Didnt they lost to France that time on a shootout?

**lakerboy** · 03-10-10, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by RbN

Didnt they lost to France that time on a shootout?

Argentina won the world cup in mexico 86. Brazil lost to france in the shootout. France wons Brazil.

**Dark Horse** · 03-10-10, 01:24 PM

I count only seven teams with a realistic shot to win the WC: Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil, Netherlands, England, Germany.

Ivory Coast is an outsider, but I'm tossing out all African teams because they lack the discipline and experience to win a tournament like this.

Am I missing anybody?

**RbN** · 03-10-10, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

I count only seven teams with a realistic shot to win the WC: Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil, Netherlands, England, Germany.

Ivory Coast is an outsider, but I'm tossing out all African teams because they lack the discipline and experience to win a tournament like this.

Am I missing anybody?

Outsider, maybe France? Yeah I know the are pretty worse lately, but you never know on a big tournament, they still got a pretty good players. Also I like Serbia. Zigic, Stankovic, Vucinic, but they are not a outsider, but I can see them come far.

**Gargamel** · 03-10-10, 01:28 PM

No, but you have included two teams that has no discipline or winning experience either and that is Portugal and Netherlands. Portugal are just not strong enough compared to the other top teams. Most notably in the striking department - it's no use having 25 super talented midfielders if your striker is HUGO ALMEIDA.

And Netherlads mentality are negative rather than positive. They don't have a winning culture, even if they are a strong side.

To be fair Argentina have not won anything in ages either, but they should benefit from the tournament being held outside Europe.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love if Netherlands won it but I can't see them overcoming their own problems, and I also don't think their squad is as strong as it has been on previous occasions when they have still not won it.

**Wilforth** · 03-10-10, 01:31 PM

Brazil qualified in a similar way when they won the WC in 2002. No one gave them a chance before the WC. I'll try to make some huge money soon and dump some on Argentina +1000.

**Gargamel** · 03-10-10, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Wilforth

Brazil qualified in a similar way when they won the WC in 2002. No one gave them a chance before the WC. I'll try to make some huge money soon and dump some on Argentina +1000.

Not true mate. They were one of the favourites with Ronaldo and Rivaldo in (or slightly past) their prime and a young Mr Ronaldinho entering the frame. They did qualify in that manner though and I think it's a valid argument.

**lakerboy** · 03-10-10, 01:36 PM

How big is the Capello factor?

**lakerboy** · 03-10-10, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

I count only seven teams with a realistic shot to win the WC: Spain, Argentina, ~~Portugal~~, Brazil, ~~Netherlands,~~ England, Germany.

Ivory Coast is an outsider, but I'm tossing out all African teams because they lack the discipline and experience to win a tournament like this.

Am I missing anybody?

Yes you are missing Italy.

**Dark Horse** · 03-10-10, 01:38 PM

Yes. Resilience is key in the World Cup. Overcoming hardship together makes a team stronger. That's also why I prefer to see a strong team lose an early game. They are often better off than teams cruising through the qualification and early WC round. Early success can get a team unfocused. And then they aren't ready for a game that doesn't go their way.

**Gargamel** · 03-10-10, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

How big is the Capello factor?

In my eyes it is big, but England have too many problems of their own to make victory likely.

- Poor mentality
- Poor wingers
- Only 1 top class striker
- Poor goalkeeper
- Lots of trouble surrounding the team
- Fragile centre backs
- Poor left back if Ashley Cole doesn't make it

They might do it, but to me there are too many factors talking against them. I'd never look further than Brazil or Argentina for this one.

**Dark Horse** · 03-10-10, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Yes you are missing Italy.

I don't see Italy as having a realistic chance. Holland and Portugal may fall short, but they do have the quality on the pitch.

**lakerboy** · 03-10-10, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

I don't see Italy as having a realistic chance. Holland and Portugal may fall short, but they do have the quality on the pitch.

I understand your point of view and Italy having to repeat makes them unlikely but surely they have more pedigree than the dutch or the portuguese.

**demize21** · 03-10-10, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by RbN

Tardelli? isnt that te guy who failed at Psv Eindhoven

, what a joke. Ive heard he is scoring some goals overthere, but for as far as I remember he was so worse.

Julio Cesar is indeed a very good goalie.

Alves, Maicon are really great, so is Andre Santos, doing a great job at Fenerbahce. The one I dont like is Lucio, he makes too may mistakes and isnt good with playing with space in his back, which wil Brazil surely have dominating matches.

Do you know Dalton? What you think of him? I think he is a great prospect.

@Dark Horse,

Thats right, big teams will buy our best players, this will continue until they finally put a salary cap and a new rule to field x domestic players at the club. The important thing is, the club has to be steady, making sure there is a new youngster ready in case the best player on that position is getting sold. The last thing they are pretty busy on now...scouting young players to get ready for the job in case first team regulars leave. We have recently signed Boilesen, biggest defensive prospect from Denmark, he will be ready when Alderweireld or Vertonghen leave. Also the directors told we will be keeping our players longer at the club, they finally see we wont get anywhere with just money on the bank (which is getting empty now too haha).

Lets see what futures brings, we dont have to win the Champions league, I would be happy if we could atleast play any part in the Champions League again.

regarding Dalton very good player one of the best to come out of the youth inter team if memory serves me correctly hes with Fluminense and doing well starting and scoring probably get snatched up by a big name European team

**demize21** · 03-10-10, 02:15 PM

Teixeira is also o top prospect played in almost all uner whatever tourneys ect vasco has him signed till 2013 but big names like ManU and Chelsea are looking to snatch him up but their are talks of him possibly in national team this year

**RbN** · 03-10-10, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by demize21

Teixeira is also o top prospect played in almost all uner whatever tourneys ect vasco has him signed till 2013 but big names like ManU and Chelsea are looking to snatch him up but their are talks of him possibly in national team this year

This Teixeira went to Shakhtar this year right? I thought they bought him.

Can you tell me more about Dalton, what are his strong points and weak? tnx

**HCBoone** · 03-10-10, 03:07 PM

Spain = Dream Team. They are my favorites to win WC. A no brainer really but they have got it all in the end. Great defense, midfield, offense and great coach.

England isn't even a contender. Maybe USA knock them out in the group

Holland always start brilliant but crashes out then.

**demize21** · 03-10-10, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by RbN

This Teixeira went to Shakhtar this year right? I thought they bought him.

Can you tell me more about Dalton, what are his strong points and weak? tnx

yea your right he just got traded mid january as for dalton akerber would know more since he follow fuminense more than i but hes a top FLU prospect center back starts regularly worth about 1mill euros if signed by another organization with that much money to spend played well in copa sudamericana last year and a few games last year when FLU were fighting to stay out of relegation all in all solid defender

**Slainte** · 03-11-10, 01:41 PM

Good bet covering both Argentina and Brazil is a South American team to win the WC, it's priced around 3.00.

**protein** · 03-11-10, 03:53 PM

Hmmm...

Azzurri with slow start will take second in a row.

**lakerboy** · 05-04-10, 04:02 PM

Argentina now +725 at pinnacle- looks like i got a good deal.

**Jimmy0607** · 05-04-10, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Argentina now +725 at pinnacle- looks like i got a good deal.

Argentina needs a Right and a left back

**bolekblues** · 05-05-10, 03:05 AM

great value but maradona is probably the worst coach to ever coach such a talented team... i really think holland can pull it out and get to the semis though.

**Sanka** · 05-05-10, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by bolekblues

maradona is probably the worst coach to ever coach such a talented team...

Originally posted by bolekblues

i really think holland can pull it out and get to the semis though.

If both Holland and Brazil finish 1st in their group they'll meet in the quarter finals (if they both win the 1st knockout round that is). I highly doubt Hollands defense is strong enough to cope with them.