DeMar DeRozan

[stevenash]

Giannis isn't in the conversation for MVP right now. Shut up.

Yes he is, doesn't man he'll win.

No, you shut up.
Everything you say is a lie.
You're a fraud.
I proved it when you said that crap about Bridgewater, I proved it yesterday.
I prove you're a fraud at least once a week, every week.
You know it, I know it, we all know it.

No, I'm not tilted, no, you don't own me, and no, you're records are not strong across the board.
Actually I love making a fool out of you, even though you do a good job of doing it yourself.


Now you shut up.
I don't like you, and I don't respect liars, especially the ones that do it in the gambling circles.

Now, explain again how Embid has played more minutes.
That's the only question here.
Fraud.



Giannis

2021-22

MIL

Reg

48

1564:37

483

883

54.7

56

184

30.4

389

540

72.0

90

450

540

287

159

45

67

1,411

Embiid

2021-22

PHI

Reg

45

1477:45

425

866

49.1

59

164

36.0

410

504

81.3

89

411

500

202

131

46

[thomorino]

Yes he is, doesn't man he'll win.

No, you shut up.
Everything you say is a lie.
You're a fraud.
I proved it when you said that crap about Bridgewater, I proved it yesterday.
I prove you're a fraud at least once a week, every week.
You know it, I know it, we all know it.

No, I'm not tilted, no, you don't own me, and no, you're records are not strong across the board.
Actually I love making a fool out of you, even though you do a good job of doing it yourself.


Now you shut up.
I don't like you, and I don't respect liars, especially the ones that do it in the gambling circles.

Now, explain again how Embid has played more minutes.
That's the only question here.
Fraud.



Giannis

2021-22

MIL

Reg

48

1564:37

483

883

54.7

56

184

30.4

389

540

72.0

90

450

540

287

159

45

67

1,411

Embiid

2021-22

PHI

Reg

45

1477:45

425

866

49.1

59

164

36.0

410

504

81.3

89

411

500

202

131

46

No he's not.

Giannis will never put up the number Embiid is playing with Middleton and Holiday.

Again, Giannis is not in the conversation.

Giannis has also already won a championship and he's already won the MVP, he doesn't care about the award. He will be rested down the stretch. Embiid will be playing to build chemistry with Harden.

[stevenash]

1) Giannis is in the mix, never did I say he'll win it.
2) Think before you post numbers as truth.
Nobody likes to be called out.

Come on man, I watch the NBA as often as you, I know who plays everyday, and who doesn't.

And you and Embid are lucky Luka is buried in Dallas, or he's be a spoiler for all of them, Jokic, Embid, all of them.
Luka's been killing it all week, unless you're not paying attention you'd never know it.
Dude gets ZERO exposure.

And that doesn't mean I think he should win either.

Carry on now.

[thomorino]

1) Giannis is in the mix, never did I say he'll win it.
2) Think before you post numbers as truth.
Nobody likes to be called out.

Come on man, I watch the NBA as often as you, I know who plays everyday, and who doesn't.

And you and Embid are lucky Luka is buried in Dallas, or he's be a spoiler for all of them, Jokic, Embid, all of them.
Luka's been killing it all week, unless you're not paying attention you'd never know it.
Dude gets ZERO exposure.

And that doesn't mean I think he should win either.

Carry on now.

Giannis is not in the conversation for MVP.

Shut up.

[thomorino]

1) Giannis is in the mix, never did I say he'll win it.
2) Think before you post numbers as truth.
Nobody likes to be called out.

Come on man, I watch the NBA as often as you, I know who plays everyday, and who doesn't.

And you and Embid are lucky Luka is buried in Dallas, or he's be a spoiler for all of them, Jokic, Embid, all of them.
Luka's been killing it all week, unless you're not paying attention you'd never know it.
Dude gets ZERO exposure.

And that doesn't mean I think he should win either.

Carry on now.

Luka gets tons of attention, he was out of shape at th beginning of the season as he always is and didn't play well.

Shut up.

[stevenash]

Another 37 point night.
Yawn.

[d2bets]

Another 30 point night.

37 points on 15/21. The record-breaking streak continues to 8. And he carried them to victory in the 4th quarter again. Long way to go, but only way he's not MVP frontrunner now is folks not paying attention. 39-21 Bulls would probably be 21-39 without him.

[thomorino]

37 points on 15/21. The record-breaking streak continues to 8. And he carried them to victory in the 4th quarter again. Long way to go, but only way he's not MVP frontrunner now is folks not paying attention. 39-21 Bulls would probably be 21-39 without him.

DeRozean is not close to the MVP, he's no even in the conversation.

He scores and does nothing else. He doesn't defend, make other players better, or rebound. He does zero other than score. Embiid scores just as much, is a top defender, gives you double digit rebounds, and is putting up good assist numbers too.

Derozean is a garbage defender, he has no impact defensively at all.

[Wrongside]

MVP

Guy crushed me tonight. Nice defense /meltdown Cavs. I knew when live switched from +4.5 to 2.5 in the third q, I was doomed

[d2bets]

DeRozean is not close to the MVP, he's no even in the conversation.

He scores and does nothing else. He doesn't defend, make other players better, or rebound. He does zero other than score. Embiid scores just as much, is a top defender, gives you double digit rebounds, and is putting up good assist numbers too.

Derozean is a garbage defender, he has no impact defensively at all.

Did Curry win two MVP's for his defense? Harden? Durant?

Nobody's ever done the shit DeMar is doing. And he hits game-winners and does it in the clutch. If the season ended today with the Bulls in 1st and Philly in 3rd, Embiid is not MVP over DeRozan. Of course it doesn't end today, so it could still move in his favor. It's wide open.

Hey. how about if DeRozan continues this ridiculous 35/50% streak for another 8 games? Still not in the convo?

[thomorino]

Did Curry win two MVP's for his defense? Harden? Durant?

Nobody's ever done the shit DeMar is doing. And he hits game-winners and does it in the clutch. If the season ended today with the Bulls in 1st and Philly in 3rd, Embiid is not MVP over DeRozan. Of course it doesn't end today, so it could still move in his favor. It's wide open.

Hey. how about if DeRozan continues this ridiculous 35/50% streak for another 8 games? Still not in the convo?

Curry makes everyone else better, so does Harden. Durant is an all-time great scorer and Durant won the MVP nearly 10 years ago when it was noticeably harder to score than it is now. Derozean isn't close to Durant's level, now or when Durant won the MVP.

Derozean, again, does nothing to impact the game other than score, and he's not scoring anymore than Embiid - they are both in the around 35 a night the last month.

[stevenash]

Did you guys see Jokic's 1H line so far.
The man's not human.

Halftime.
15 points
7 rebounds
5 assists
3 steals
1 block

And with all that ball handling, one turnover.

Joel who?

[thomorino]

Did you guys see Jokic's 1H line so far.
The man's not human.

Halftime.
15 points
7 rebounds
5 assists
3 steals
1 block

And with all that ball handling, one turnover.

Joel who?

He's playing Sacramento. And again, he's playing no defense as usual, which is one of the reasons he's not on Embiid's level.

Sabonis is shooting almost 80% from the floor against him.

[Cross]

DeRozan DeMVP.

[d2bets]

Curry makes everyone else better, so does Harden. Durant is an all-time great scorer and Durant won the MVP nearly 10 years ago when it was noticeably harder to score than it is now. Derozean isn't close to Durant's level, now or when Durant won the MVP.

Derozean, again, does nothing to impact the game other than score, and he's not scoring anymore than Embiid - they are both in the around 35 a night the last month.

DeRozan is smashing Wilt Chamberlain records.

Oh yeah, and the Bulls are in first place. I wonder why. From 31-41 to 39-21. With a multitude of injuries. I wonder why.

[stevenash]

DeRozan DeMVP.

The guy hasn't missed a shot in a month, or so it seems.
I was listening to the Chicago sports talk on the XM the past few weeks.
That's all they talk about.

[thomorino]

Derozean will get exposed as always in the playoffs, Bulls have zero chance to get out of the 2nd round unless their are major injuries.

[IBetYou]

NBA is such a joke. I watched almost all of that game... every time Tre Young drove to the basket and missed at the rim the Bulls would get the defensive rebound and then mark davis would whistle a foul. Effectively a 100% strike rate for driving guards since you either score or get FTs -no other outcome! DeRozan meanwhile hitting a lot of midrange shots but he got himself into a rhythm the same way as Young. Point is you stats today have no meaning. You hear the phrase historical numbers every odd day in this league and not about 1 player lol.

As for teh MVP race DeRozan is as 1-D as they come. Doesn't even shoot the three for crying out loud. If voters have a clue then it will be Jokic or Embiid regardless of standings. They do everything for their teams.

[IBetYou]

That ref Davis got yelled at by Young early in the game, gave him a tech, and then was careful not to upset his master for the rest of the game. Same thing occurred later in the frame with DeRozan. All these refs are fanboys. Very sensitive and want to show that they have the star players under control even if it means giving them every call they want.

[thomorino]

NBA is such a joke. I watched almost all of that game... every time Tre Young drove to the basket and missed at the rim the Bulls would get the defensive rebound and then mark davis would whistle a foul. Effectively a 100% strike rate for driving guards since you either score or get FTs -no other outcome! DeRozan meanwhile hitting a lot of midrange shots but he got himself into a rhythm the same way as Young. Point is you stats today have no meaning. You hear the phrase historical numbers every odd day in this league and not about 1 player lol.

As for teh MVP race DeRozan is as 1-D as they come. Doesn't even shoot the three for crying out loud. If voters have a clue then it will be Jokic or Embiid regardless of standings. They do everything for their teams.

Agree, Derozean does not rebound, defend, or make his teammates better. Scoring alone is not enough unless you are an all-time great scorer, and he is not.

[stevenash]

^
Another double/double for Jokic, the guy's a machine.
Six minutes left, eight assists.

[thomorino]

^
Another double/double for Jokic, the guy's a machine.
Six minutes left, eight assists.

Again, he plays no defense, Sabonis on pace to score 40, Embiid is better, and its clear.

[19th Hole]

what's even crazier is he's scoring all these points and he's only had ONE game in his last 8 games where he made a three pointer

~~
Makes Derozan's scoring scoring numbers more impressive.
Wilt's 3's were obviously non-existant.

[d2bets]

Derozean will get exposed as always in the playoffs, Bulls have zero chance to get out of the 2nd round unless their are major injuries.

Playoffs is irrelevant to MVP. To whom do you attribute the Bulls in first place? If he's not making the Bulls better, who is is?

[stevenash]

He's playing Sacramento. And again, he's playing no defense as usual, which is one of the reasons he's not on Embiid's level.

Sabonis is shooting almost 80% from the floor against him.

a) Sabonis wasn't on him the whole game
b) Using your go to stat, Jokic was +17
c) The defensive metrics say Jokic is a better defender than Embid
d) Jokic's real +/- figures are demonstratively better than Embid's

Jokic is a much better shooter, just look at the FG%, and it's not even close.
Jokic is a better rebounder, superior passer.

The only thing Embid does more than Jokic is average more points.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

How exactly is Embid better,?
Take away that 29 points scored a game, there's nothing Embid can't do better than Jokic.

And that is why Jokic is the clear MVP favorite.
Don't tell me about what the betting markets say, the public drives those odds.


Here's the MVP tracker
Argue with the numbers, don't argue with me.
If you must argue with me, be very careful on your approach, people are watching.

Rk	Player	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	PTS		Prob%
1	Nikola Jokić	52	52	33	9.9	17.4	0.57	1.6	4.3	0.372	8.3	13.1	0.635	0.616	2.8	11	13.8	7.9	1.3	26		36.30%
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	49	49	32.7	10.1	18.5	0.547	1.2	3.8	0.309	8.9	14.7	0.61	0.579	1.9	9.3	11.2	6	1	29.4		25.80%
3	Joel Embiid	46	46	32.9	9.5	19.3	0.495	1.3	3.7	0.369	8.2	15.6	0.524	0.53	2	9.2	11.2	4.5	1	29.6		11.60%
4	Chris Paul	58	58	33	5.6	11.5	0.487	1	3.1	0.33	4.6	8.4	0.546	0.532	0.3	4.2	4.5	10.7	1.9	14.9		9.40%
5	Rudy Gobert	44	44	32.1	5.6	7.9	0.711	0	0	0	5.6	7.8	0.715	0.711	3.5	11.3	14.8	1.2	0.8	15.7		3.30%
6	Stephen Curry	54	54	34.8	8.4	19.6	0.427	4.6	12.3	0.379	3.7	7.3	0.509	0.546	0.6	4.7	5.3	6.3	1.4	25.8		3.30%
7	Luka Dončić	44	44	35.4	9.7	21.7	0.449	2.8	8.3	0.335	7	13.4	0.52	0.513	0.9	8.3	9.2	9	1.1	27.5		3.00%
8	Ja Morant	46	46	33.2	10	20.2	0.495	1.5	4.5	0.33	8.5	15.7	0.542	0.532	1.3	4.5	5.8	6.9	1.2	26.8		2.80%
9	DeMar DeRozan	55	55	35.6	10.3	19.9	0.517	0.6	1.8	0.343	9.7	18.1	0.535	0.533	0.8	4.4	5.2	5.1	0.9	28.1		2.30%
10	Devin Booker	51	51	34.1	9.3	20.8	0.446	2.6	7.1	0.369	6.6	13.7	0.486	0.509	0.8	4.4	5.2	4.5	1	25.5		2.00%

[thomorino]

a) Sabonis wasn't on him the whole game
b) Using your go to stat, Jokic was +17
c) The defensive metrics say Jokic is a better defender than Embid
d) Jokic's real +/- figures are demonstratively better than Embid's

Jokic is a much better shooter, just look at the FG%, and it's not even close.
Jokic is a better rebounder, superior passer.

The only thing Embid does more than Jokic is average more points.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

How exactly is Embid better,?
Take away that 29 points scored a game, there's nothing Embid can't do better than Jokic.

And that is why Jokic is the clear MVP favorite.
Don't tell me about what the betting markets say, the public drives those odds.


Here's the MVP tracker
Argue with the numbers, don't argue with me.
If you must argue with me, be very careful on your approach, people are watching.

Rk	Player	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	PTS		Prob%
1	Nikola Jokić	52	52	33	9.9	17.4	0.57	1.6	4.3	0.372	8.3	13.1	0.635	0.616	2.8	11	13.8	7.9	1.3	26		36.30%
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	49	49	32.7	10.1	18.5	0.547	1.2	3.8	0.309	8.9	14.7	0.61	0.579	1.9	9.3	11.2	6	1	29.4		25.80%
3	Joel Embiid	46	46	32.9	9.5	19.3	0.495	1.3	3.7	0.369	8.2	15.6	0.524	0.53	2	9.2	11.2	4.5	1	29.6		11.60%
4	Chris Paul	58	58	33	5.6	11.5	0.487	1	3.1	0.33	4.6	8.4	0.546	0.532	0.3	4.2	4.5	10.7	1.9	14.9		9.40%
5	Rudy Gobert	44	44	32.1	5.6	7.9	0.711	0	0	0	5.6	7.8	0.715	0.711	3.5	11.3	14.8	1.2	0.8	15.7		3.30%
6	Stephen Curry	54	54	34.8	8.4	19.6	0.427	4.6	12.3	0.379	3.7	7.3	0.509	0.546	0.6	4.7	5.3	6.3	1.4	25.8		3.30%
7	Luka Dončić	44	44	35.4	9.7	21.7	0.449	2.8	8.3	0.335	7	13.4	0.52	0.513	0.9	8.3	9.2	9	1.1	27.5		3.00%
8	Ja Morant	46	46	33.2	10	20.2	0.495	1.5	4.5	0.33	8.5	15.7	0.542	0.532	1.3	4.5	5.8	6.9	1.2	26.8		2.80%
9	DeMar DeRozan	55	55	35.6	10.3	19.9	0.517	0.6	1.8	0.343	9.7	18.1	0.535	0.533	0.8	4.4	5.2	5.1	0.9	28.1		2.30%
10	Devin Booker	51	51	34.1	9.3	20.8	0.446	2.6	7.1	0.369	6.6	13.7	0.486	0.509	0.8	4.4	5.2	4.5	1	25.5		2.00%

Embiid is a far better scorer, rebounder, defender, and shot blocker. Jokic does one thing better than Embiid, pass.

One.

Again, Embiid is a 3 time all NBA defensive team, Jokic is a bad defender. Offensively Embiid is dominant, Jokic is not a physically dominant player.

Every market has Embiid, not Jokic, as the clear favorite to be MVP, and its not close.

Embiid is +150, Jokic is +300.

Again, not close.

Embiid was hurt the first couple weeks of the season, since Embiid got healthy he's been clearly better than Jokic, and its not close.

[stevenash]

Jokic averages more rebounds per game.
Ergo, Jokic is the better rebounder.

Shooter?
Jokic has a much higher FG%, ergo, Jokic is the better shooter.

Assists?
Jokic by a 3:2 + margin.

Defender, all the defense metrics say Jokic.

Win share, +/- etc. all say Jokic.

Can't dispute all those facts.
Everything adds up to Jokic.

And what's that now?
Thirteen consecutive double/doubles?

[IBetYou]

Jokic averages more rebounds per game.
Ergo, Jokic is the better rebounder.

Shooter?
Jokic has a much higher FG%, ergo, Jokic is the better shooter.

Assists?
Jokic by a 3:2 + margin.

Defender, all the defense metrics say Jokic.

Win share, +/- etc. all say Jokic.

Can't dispute all those facts.
Everything adds up to Jokic.

And what's that now?
Thirteen consecutive double/doubles?

You make some good points there but undermine your case with that double-double stat. What is it with you AMericans and the double-double/ triple-double stats. Most pointless stats ever invented.

I happen to agree Jokic is slightly better. Embiid the better defender I think, regardless of what the stats say, but Jokic a way better passer. He has revolutionized the centre position. People say Steph Curry has revolutionised the pg position but I don't see a single other player trying what he does -rare talent. I do see a lot of centres trying to play like Jokic. Towns has become more of a passer this season under coach Finch and it has helped his team into the playoff race.

[jjgold]

Joker has most impact on any game

[stevenash]

This is what Zach Harper just wrote two hours ago in The Athletic.
Harper has a vote, and this is how voters like him think.

I don't have a vote, you don't have a vote, Harper and his peers vote.

Zach HarperFeb 24, 2022

Most Valuable Player

Criteria: My criteria for how you earn the MVP award are based both on how I view the award and what a lot of voting in the NBA’s past has said about the winners of the award.

• Crazy stats — We judge a lot of these awards based on just how incredible your numbers are. In this era’s offensive and statistical explosion, that becomes even more imperative. If you’re not setting history, are you even the most valuable?
• Player impact — How does this team fare without their player involved? On/off net rating has A LOT of noise and should be more utilized with full lineup data, but we’re going to boil it down here and take it with a big grain of salt.
• Team success — It’s rare that teams below 50-plus victories end up employing the MVP of the league. The more team success, the more feathers in your cap.
• Perceived value — Do people (players, media, fans) around the NBA think this player’s value is through the roof? Obviously, this is entirely subjective.
• Narrative — Does your story matter more than other stories? A lot of people point to Derrick Rose in 2010-11 for something like this. Or Russell Westbrook averaging a triple-double in 2016-17.
• Clutch performance — Did you bring it in the closing moments of tight games? Clutch situations are defined as a game within five points in the final five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime.

Five Honorable Mentions: Devin Booker, Phoenix Suns | Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks | Steph Curry, Golden State Warriors | Jimmy Butler, Miami Heat | Chris Paul, Phoenix Suns
Quick thought on the honorable mentions here: First and foremost, Kevin Durant, as of right now, has missed too much time to even get thrown into the honorable mentions, and he’s still got more time to miss. If Durant hadn’t hurt his knee, he’d probably be in first place on these rankings for MVP. The latest surge from Luka Doncic and the injury to KD bumped him out of the honorable mention.
Steph Curry will probably finish in the top five, but he’s also shooting just 40.5 percent from the field and has been league average from deep over his last 35 games. Chris Paul will likely find his way out of this due to the thumb injury, but that could also open up the possibility of Devin Booker moving into the top five.
5. Ja Morant, Memphis Grizzlies

Initial reasoning: Ja Morant gets the nod for fifth on this MVP list over some other potential candidates, because the success the Memphis Grizzlies are having this season puts him over the top. The interesting thing about his candidacy here is the successful turnaround of the Grizzlies happened when he hurt his knee. They rallied together when he got hurt, and he helped keep it going once he got back into the mix. His numbers are really impressive, averaging 26.8 points, 6.9 assists and 5.8 rebounds while making 49.5 percent of his shots on the season. The Grizzlies are an offensive juggernaut when he’s on the floor, which has helped elevate them to a top-five offense in the NBA.
The knock against Morant here is the Grizzlies are just as good, if not better, when he’s not on the floor. That’s a big thanks to their depth, especially at the playmaking positions on the floor. And their run that happened when he was nursing that knee injury hurts that on/off dynamic a lot of MVP candidates can benefit from. Where Morant gets an extra boost is clutch time exploits. He’s the third-leading clutch scorer (total points) in the NBA, and he’s just been so timely for them. He’s a big reason why the Grizzlies are 15-7 in clutch games Morant plays in.
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks

Initial reasoning: Are we back to accepting Giannis Antetokounmpo as a viable MVP candidate? There was this weirdness last season where people thought he shouldn’t get it for a third straight season no matter what because of his failed moments in the postseason the previous two years. It’s a completely asinine way of looking at single-season award voting and worthiness. Giannis led the Milwaukee Bucks to the NBA title in one of the most epic and memorable ways possible. Now we’re collectively back to appreciating just how crazy his presence and production are on the court. He’s averaging 29.4 points, 11.2 rebounds and 6.0 assists per game while making 54.7 percent of his shots.
Giannis has kept the Bucks afloat while they’ve had so many absences due to healthy and safety protocols, along with key injuries. The Bucks are a dominant team with him on the floor (plus-8.6 net rating), and they’re pretty bad (minus-3.9 net rating) when he’s out of the game. He might be the MVP and the Defensive Player of the Year again. The biggest knock against Giannis this season is he’s missed 11 games already, and the Bucks actually managed to play fairly well without him. They are 5-6 when he misses games this season. But a late surge could give Giannis his third MVP in four seasons.
3. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers

Initial reasoning: A lot of people seem to believe Joel Embiid is the runaway MVP of the league so far, but I think that’s a bit of an overreaction with a heaping spoonful of recency bias on top of everything. Don’t get me wrong, Embiid has been stellar for the Philadelphia 76ers, and if the season ended today and he was awarded the MVP, I don’t think it would be ridiculous. A lot of Embiid’s numbers are similar to what Giannis is doing for Milwaukee. He’s averaging 29.6 points, 11.2 rebounds and 4.5 assists while making 49.5 percent of his shots. Embiid also is the NBA’s leading clutch-time scorer this season, and he’s making 50 percent of his shots in those situations. He’s constantly taking over with his offense and his defense.
With all that said, Embiid has missed 12 games so far this season, and that’s a pretty significant chunk. Also, while his latest 2.5 months on the court have been MVP-esque, he only played 11 games through November. He missed a lot of time to start the season, and I fully believe we need to pay attention to the season as a whole. It can’t just be about what’s happening recently. Something that helps his case is the Sixers are just 4-8 this season when he misses a game, and there’s been more pressure on him to be elite with the Ben Simmons fiasco up until the trade deadline. Embiid’s praise is very much warranted, and it wouldn’t shock me if he wins. But his entire season hasn’t been the best season so far.
2. DeMar DeRozan, Chicago Bulls

Initial reasoning: It feels a little bit like the MVP conversation has ignored DeMar DeRozan and what he’s doing to help lead the Chicago Bulls at the top of the Eastern Conference. Yes, they’re sharing that summit in the East currently with the Miami Heat, but the Bulls have far exceeded any expectations, even if you were highly optimistic about this season for them. DeRozan is very clearly the reason the Bulls are so good and so significant so far this season. It’s not like he’s teamed up with a bunch of bums. There’s real talent on this roster, but DeRozan has been the leader of the team, and everybody has comfortably fallen in line behind his lead. The numbers are unreal. He’s averaging 28.1 points, 5.2 rebounds and 5.1 assists while making 51.7 percent of his shots and posting a 60.1 percent true shooting. Prior to this season, we’ve only seen a player average at least 28-5-5 with a 60 percent true shooting 17 times in NBA history. Eight of those times were evenly split between Michael Jordan and James Harden.
There’s about an 11-points-per-100-possessions swing when DeRozan isn’t on the floor — significant considering the Bulls’ injuries. DeRozan has the second-most clutch points in the NBA, and he’s making better than 54 percent of his shots in those situations. He has the most fourth-quarter points, leading second place Giannis by 43. DeRozan also is 15th in fourth-quarter assists, and he makes 55 percent of his shots in the final quarter. There’s also something to be said for the guy who just keeps playing games. Some of that is luck this season, but DeRozan has mostly stayed healthy. And he’s performed like a superhero whenever they need him to do it.
1. Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets

Initial reasoning: Your reigning MVP Nikola Jokic continues to put up some of the most impressive performances on a nightly basis. We all know the Denver Nuggets’ plight by now. Michael Porter Jr. barely played this season, and he’s done for the year with a back injury. Jamal Murray still hasn’t returned from his ACL injury last season. It’s just Jokic, Will Barton and Aaron Gordon most nights as Michael Malone tries to plug in any role player who could possibly help. Somehow, through all of that, the Nuggets are still top six in the Western Conference currently. Jokic is averaging 26.0 points, 13.8 rebounds and 7.9 assists per night while also being extremely efficient and extremely clutch. He’s the only player in NBA history to average at least 26-13-7 for a season.
This stat continues to blow me away, so I’m going to continue to throw it out there in favor of Jokic repeating as MVP until it no longer is true. The Nuggets are plus-10.1 points per 100 possessions with Jokic on the floor. That’s two full points per 100 possessions more than the Phoenix Suns’ net rating (plus-8.1) on the season. When Jokic isn’t on the court, the Nuggets get outscored by 10.6 points per 100 possessions. Detroit has the worst net rating in the NBA at minus-10.0 per 100 possessions. So, the Nuggets with Jokic are the most dominant team in the NBA, and the Nuggets without Jokic are the most dominated team in the NBA this season. That sounds like the most value to me.

[jjgold]

Butler having a very underrated year

Towns a monster

So many stars nba

[thomorino]

Jokic averages more rebounds per game.
Ergo, Jokic is the better rebounder.

Shooter?
Jokic has a much higher FG%, ergo, Jokic is the better shooter.

Assists?
Jokic by a 3:2 + margin.

Defender, all the defense metrics say Jokic.

Win share, +/- etc. all say Jokic.

Can't dispute all those facts.
Everything adds up to Jokic.

And what's that now?
Thirteen consecutive double/doubles?

Wrong, Philadelphia has the better record, even though, again, Embiid was hurt the first 2 weeks of the season.

You seem to not understand Embiid was nowhere near 100% the first 2 weeks of the season. Since then he has been dominant, clearly better than Jokic. And, again, its not close.

Embiid is a rim protector, Jokic is not, Embiid can guard everyone on the floor, Jokic cannot.

The West is complete trash this year - Jokic has a far easier schedule than Embiid - and Embiid is still better.

Again, Embiid is a 3 time all-nba defensive team player - Jokic zero.

Just stop.

Embiid is the best player in the game right now, he's harder to guard than Giannis because he's a better shooter than him. Superstars like Harden want to play with Embiid - not Jokic.

[stevenash]

Butler having a very underrated year

Towns a monster

So many stars nba

True, true.
Read this section again.



Jokic is averaging 26.0 points, 13.8 rebounds and 7.9 assists per night while also being extremely efficient and extremely clutch. He’s the only player in NBA history to average at least 26-13-7 for a season.
This stat continues to blow me away, so I’m going to continue to throw it out there in favor of Jokic repeating as MVP until it no longer is true. The Nuggets are plus-10.1 points per 100 possessions with Jokic on the floor. That’s two full points per 100 possessions more than the Phoenix Suns’ net rating (plus-8.1) on the season. When Jokic isn’t on the court, the Nuggets get outscored by 10.6 points per 100 possessions. Detroit has the worst net rating in the NBA at minus-10.0 per 100 possessions. So, the Nuggets with Jokic are the most dominant team in the NBA, and the Nuggets without Jokic are the most dominated team in the NBA this season. That sounds like the most value to me.

[thomorino]

This is what Zach Harper just wrote two hours ago in The Athletic.
Harper has a vote, and this is how voters like him think.

I don't have a vote, you don't have a vote, Harper and his peers vote.

Zach HarperFeb 24, 2022

Most Valuable Player

Criteria: My criteria for how you earn the MVP award are based both on how I view the award and what a lot of voting in the NBA’s past has said about the winners of the award.

• Crazy stats — We judge a lot of these awards based on just how incredible your numbers are. In this era’s offensive and statistical explosion, that becomes even more imperative. If you’re not setting history, are you even the most valuable?
• Player impact — How does this team fare without their player involved? On/off net rating has A LOT of noise and should be more utilized with full lineup data, but we’re going to boil it down here and take it with a big grain of salt.
• Team success — It’s rare that teams below 50-plus victories end up employing the MVP of the league. The more team success, the more feathers in your cap.
• Perceived value — Do people (players, media, fans) around the NBA think this player’s value is through the roof? Obviously, this is entirely subjective.
• Narrative — Does your story matter more than other stories? A lot of people point to Derrick Rose in 2010-11 for something like this. Or Russell Westbrook averaging a triple-double in 2016-17.
• Clutch performance — Did you bring it in the closing moments of tight games? Clutch situations are defined as a game within five points in the final five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime.

Five Honorable Mentions: Devin Booker, Phoenix Suns | Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks | Steph Curry, Golden State Warriors | Jimmy Butler, Miami Heat | Chris Paul, Phoenix Suns
Quick thought on the honorable mentions here: First and foremost, Kevin Durant, as of right now, has missed too much time to even get thrown into the honorable mentions, and he’s still got more time to miss. If Durant hadn’t hurt his knee, he’d probably be in first place on these rankings for MVP. The latest surge from Luka Doncic and the injury to KD bumped him out of the honorable mention.
Steph Curry will probably finish in the top five, but he’s also shooting just 40.5 percent from the field and has been league average from deep over his last 35 games. Chris Paul will likely find his way out of this due to the thumb injury, but that could also open up the possibility of Devin Booker moving into the top five.
5. Ja Morant, Memphis Grizzlies

Initial reasoning: Ja Morant gets the nod for fifth on this MVP list over some other potential candidates, because the success the Memphis Grizzlies are having this season puts him over the top. The interesting thing about his candidacy here is the successful turnaround of the Grizzlies happened when he hurt his knee. They rallied together when he got hurt, and he helped keep it going once he got back into the mix. His numbers are really impressive, averaging 26.8 points, 6.9 assists and 5.8 rebounds while making 49.5 percent of his shots on the season. The Grizzlies are an offensive juggernaut when he’s on the floor, which has helped elevate them to a top-five offense in the NBA.
The knock against Morant here is the Grizzlies are just as good, if not better, when he’s not on the floor. That’s a big thanks to their depth, especially at the playmaking positions on the floor. And their run that happened when he was nursing that knee injury hurts that on/off dynamic a lot of MVP candidates can benefit from. Where Morant gets an extra boost is clutch time exploits. He’s the third-leading clutch scorer (total points) in the NBA, and he’s just been so timely for them. He’s a big reason why the Grizzlies are 15-7 in clutch games Morant plays in.
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks

Initial reasoning: Are we back to accepting Giannis Antetokounmpo as a viable MVP candidate? There was this weirdness last season where people thought he shouldn’t get it for a third straight season no matter what because of his failed moments in the postseason the previous two years. It’s a completely asinine way of looking at single-season award voting and worthiness. Giannis led the Milwaukee Bucks to the NBA title in one of the most epic and memorable ways possible. Now we’re collectively back to appreciating just how crazy his presence and production are on the court. He’s averaging 29.4 points, 11.2 rebounds and 6.0 assists per game while making 54.7 percent of his shots.
Giannis has kept the Bucks afloat while they’ve had so many absences due to healthy and safety protocols, along with key injuries. The Bucks are a dominant team with him on the floor (plus-8.6 net rating), and they’re pretty bad (minus-3.9 net rating) when he’s out of the game. He might be the MVP and the Defensive Player of the Year again. The biggest knock against Giannis this season is he’s missed 11 games already, and the Bucks actually managed to play fairly well without him. They are 5-6 when he misses games this season. But a late surge could give Giannis his third MVP in four seasons.
3. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers

Initial reasoning: A lot of people seem to believe Joel Embiid is the runaway MVP of the league so far, but I think that’s a bit of an overreaction with a heaping spoonful of recency bias on top of everything. Don’t get me wrong, Embiid has been stellar for the Philadelphia 76ers, and if the season ended today and he was awarded the MVP, I don’t think it would be ridiculous. A lot of Embiid’s numbers are similar to what Giannis is doing for Milwaukee. He’s averaging 29.6 points, 11.2 rebounds and 4.5 assists while making 49.5 percent of his shots. Embiid also is the NBA’s leading clutch-time scorer this season, and he’s making 50 percent of his shots in those situations. He’s constantly taking over with his offense and his defense.
With all that said, Embiid has missed 12 games so far this season, and that’s a pretty significant chunk. Also, while his latest 2.5 months on the court have been MVP-esque, he only played 11 games through November. He missed a lot of time to start the season, and I fully believe we need to pay attention to the season as a whole. It can’t just be about what’s happening recently. Something that helps his case is the Sixers are just 4-8 this season when he misses a game, and there’s been more pressure on him to be elite with the Ben Simmons fiasco up until the trade deadline. Embiid’s praise is very much warranted, and it wouldn’t shock me if he wins. But his entire season hasn’t been the best season so far.
2. DeMar DeRozan, Chicago Bulls

Initial reasoning: It feels a little bit like the MVP conversation has ignored DeMar DeRozan and what he’s doing to help lead the Chicago Bulls at the top of the Eastern Conference. Yes, they’re sharing that summit in the East currently with the Miami Heat, but the Bulls have far exceeded any expectations, even if you were highly optimistic about this season for them. DeRozan is very clearly the reason the Bulls are so good and so significant so far this season. It’s not like he’s teamed up with a bunch of bums. There’s real talent on this roster, but DeRozan has been the leader of the team, and everybody has comfortably fallen in line behind his lead. The numbers are unreal. He’s averaging 28.1 points, 5.2 rebounds and 5.1 assists while making 51.7 percent of his shots and posting a 60.1 percent true shooting. Prior to this season, we’ve only seen a player average at least 28-5-5 with a 60 percent true shooting 17 times in NBA history. Eight of those times were evenly split between Michael Jordan and James Harden.
There’s about an 11-points-per-100-possessions swing when DeRozan isn’t on the floor — significant considering the Bulls’ injuries. DeRozan has the second-most clutch points in the NBA, and he’s making better than 54 percent of his shots in those situations. He has the most fourth-quarter points, leading second place Giannis by 43. DeRozan also is 15th in fourth-quarter assists, and he makes 55 percent of his shots in the final quarter. There’s also something to be said for the guy who just keeps playing games. Some of that is luck this season, but DeRozan has mostly stayed healthy. And he’s performed like a superhero whenever they need him to do it.
1. Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets

Initial reasoning: Your reigning MVP Nikola Jokic continues to put up some of the most impressive performances on a nightly basis. We all know the Denver Nuggets’ plight by now. Michael Porter Jr. barely played this season, and he’s done for the year with a back injury. Jamal Murray still hasn’t returned from his ACL injury last season. It’s just Jokic, Will Barton and Aaron Gordon most nights as Michael Malone tries to plug in any role player who could possibly help. Somehow, through all of that, the Nuggets are still top six in the Western Conference currently. Jokic is averaging 26.0 points, 13.8 rebounds and 7.9 assists per night while also being extremely efficient and extremely clutch. He’s the only player in NBA history to average at least 26-13-7 for a season.
This stat continues to blow me away, so I’m going to continue to throw it out there in favor of Jokic repeating as MVP until it no longer is true. The Nuggets are plus-10.1 points per 100 possessions with Jokic on the floor. That’s two full points per 100 possessions more than the Phoenix Suns’ net rating (plus-8.1) on the season. When Jokic isn’t on the court, the Nuggets get outscored by 10.6 points per 100 possessions. Detroit has the worst net rating in the NBA at minus-10.0 per 100 possessions. So, the Nuggets with Jokic are the most dominant team in the NBA, and the Nuggets without Jokic are the most dominated team in the NBA this season. That sounds like the most value to me.

So the argument here is embiid is the MVP but this writer doesn't want to give him the award because he missed a meaningless small number of games early in the year.

This writer even admits embiid is number 1 in clutch scoring.

[stevenash]

This is why he's saying Jokic is Most Valuable Player.

With Jokic, Denver is the most dominant team (and he proves it out) in the NBA, without Jokic, Denver is the Detroit Pistons.

The very essence of the word 'valuable'



When Jokic isn’t on the court, the Nuggets get outscored by 10.6 points per 100 possessions. Detroit has the worst net rating in the NBA at minus-10.0 per 100 possessions. So, the Nuggets with Jokic are the most dominant team in the NBA, and the Nuggets without Jokic are the most dominated team in the NBA this season. That sounds like the most value to me.