OK, from somebody who always denied it: Lebron is officially the GOAT now

[BennyBigNuts]

Jordan would have averaged 40 a game in today's pussie NBA product.
Not even a debate between the 2.
Jordan did it all while you could kick him in the nuts and not get a foul call.
Today you get a whistle for looking at a guy with the ball.

[Mac4Lyfe]

I've thought he is right with Jordan for awhile but it's all opinions , no way to honestly ever tell .
Two completely different eras and styles of basketball we're trying to compare .
There was talent on nearly every team compared to now . Now , It's about 5 teams that have talent to lead to a title .
They beat the fukk out of each other night in , night out back then. Now , multiple fouls that aren't even fouls .
LeBron would've been hell back then with his size and MJ would've averaged 50 with the officiating and calls now.
They're both to live on to be talked about throughout time .

Are you serious? Look, I'm old school but the players today are 10x better than they were 20 years ago. They are bigger, faster and much, much stronger. You have the best players in the world as it's now international. How many guys 20 years ago are like the superstars of today? Giannis, Durant, Curry, Lebron, Davis, Klay, Embiid, Harden... You are kidding yourself if you think the players of old are better. MJ couldn't shoot the 3 like these guys can. How do you think he's going to put up 50 against stretch 4's that are built to stop you. You may think the defense is worst today, but it's actually better. Talk to a scout that's been in the game 30 - 40 years. They can show you combine results that will blow your mind. Guys shoot better, dribble better, move better, play defense better, etc. I've seen MJ and Lebron and I don't think it's worth discussing because they are both #1 to me in different era's. Lebron and MJ would have had to both adjust their games to the era. But to think that the old school teams had talent on them is just wrong. There were a lot of shitty players on those benches. Go look them up. Turrible.

[Eddy Munny]

Then you must lose a lot of money... How did your square bet on Boston go for you???

What are you even talking about? My comment had nothing to do with Boston, everything to do with Lebron.

[Slipknot26]

Haha
This product is no comparison to back then . Multiple teams had badass players back then . Today , simply buying your hardware . Heat , yep , Warriors , yep .
Spurs actually worked for it through teamwork , others are mainly purchased .
These bitches would've got knocked the fukk out coming down the lane like they do now .
You can count on one hand who's honestly got a shot to win a title now , it's a steamy pile of dogshit for a product .

[vitterd]

Jordan would have averaged 40 a game in today's pussie NBA product.
Not even a debate between the 2.
Jordan did it all while you could kick him in the nuts and not get a foul call.
Today you get a whistle for looking at a guy with the ball.

You couldn’t breathe on Jordan....guy got every call.

[Eddy Munny]

You couldn’t breathe on Jordan....guy got every call.

Exactly...

Jordan nuthuggers love to point to the physicality of the NBA is his era, which may be true as a general rule, but it didn't apply to Jordan himself. He had the league in his hip pocket and the officials were always quick with a whistle if you so much as cast a shadow on the guy.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Here's the Bulls last title playoff run...

New Jersey

Michael Cage	F-C	6-9	224	Jan 28, 1962	36	San Diego State	13	1984 Rnd 1, Pick 14, San Diego Clippers
Sam Cassell	PG	6-3	185	Nov 18, 1969	28	Florida State	4	1993 Rnd 1, Pick 24, Houston Rockets
Sherman Douglas	PG	6-0	180	Sep 15, 1966	31	Syracuse	8	1989 Rnd 2, Pick 1, Miami Heat
Brian Evans	PF	6-8	220	Sep 13, 1973	24	Indiana	1	1996 Rnd 1, Pick 27, Orlando Magic
Chris Gatling	F-C	6-10	220	Sep 3, 1967	30	Old Dominion	6	1991 Rnd 1, Pick 16, Golden State Warriors
Kendall Gill	SG	6-5	195	May 25, 1968	29	Illinois	7	1990 Rnd 1, Pick 5, Charlotte Hornets (1988)
Jack Haley	FC	6-10	240	Jan 27, 1964	34	UCLA	10	1987 Rnd 4, Pick 10, Chicago Bulls
Lucious Harris	SG	6-5	190	Dec 18, 1970	27	Long Beach State	4	1993 Rnd 2, Pick 1, Dallas Mavericks
Kerry Kittles	SG	6-5	179	Jun 12, 1974	23	Villanova	1	1996 Rnd 1, Pick 8, New Jersey Nets
Don MacLean	PF	6-10	235	Jan 16, 1970	28	UCLA	5	1992 Rnd 1, Pick 19, Detroit Pistons
Rony Seikaly	C	6-11	230	May 10, 1965	32	Syracuse	9	1988 Rnd 1, Pick 9, Miami Heat
Keith Van Horn	PF	6-10	220	Oct 23, 1975	22	Utah	0	1997 Rnd 1, Pick 2, Philadelphia Sixers
David Vaughn	PF	6-9	240	Mar 23, 1973	25	Memphis	2	1995 Rnd 1, Pick 25, Orlando Magic
Jayson Williams	F-C	6-10	245	Feb 22, 1968	30	St. John's	7	1990 Rnd 1, Pick 21, Phoenix Suns

Where are the stars? Kendall Gill, Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn??? GTFOH

Charlotte Hornets...

B.J. Armstrong	PG	6-2	175	Sep 9, 1967	30	Iowa	8	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 18, Chicago Bulls
Corey Beck	PG	6-1	190	May 27, 1971	26	Arkansas	2	1995 NBA Draft, Undrafted
Dell Curry	SG	6-4	190	Jun 25, 1964	33	Virginia Tech	11	1986 Rnd 1, Pick 15, Utah Jazz
Vlade Divac	C	7-1	260	Feb 3, 1968	30	KK Partizan (Serbia)	8	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 26, Los Angeles Lakers
Matt Geiger	C	7-0	243	Sep 10, 1969	28	Georgia Tech	5	1992 Rnd 2, Pick 15, Miami Heat
Anthony Mason	SF	6-7	250	Dec 14, 1966	31	Tennessee State	9	1988 Rnd 3, Pick 3, Portland Trail Blazers
Vernon Maxwell	SG	6-4	180	Sep 12, 1965	32	Florida	9	1988 Rnd 2, Pick 22, Denver Nuggets
Bobby Phills	SG	6-5	215	Dec 20, 1969	28	Southern	6	1991 Rnd 2, Pick 18, Milwaukee Bucks
J.R. Reid	PF	6-9	247	Mar 31, 1968	30	North Carolina	7	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 5, Charlotte Hornets (1988)
Glen Rice	PF	6-8	228	May 28, 1967	30	Michigan	8	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 4, Miami Heat
Donald Royal	PF	6-8	210	May 22, 1966	31	Notre Dame	8	1987 Rnd 3, Pick 6, Cleveland Cavaliers
David Wesley	PG	6-0	190	Nov 14, 1970	27	Baylor	4	1992 NBA Draft, Undrafted
Travis Williams	SG	6-6	215	May 27, 1969	28	South Carolina State	0	1992 NBA Draft, Undrafted

Who on this lousy squad??? Vlade Divac? C'mon man.

The Pacers with Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller and a bunch of clowns???

Travis Best	PG	5-11	182	Jul 12, 1972	25	Georgia Tech	2	1995 Rnd 1, Pick 23, Indiana Pacers
Etdrick Bohannon	PF	6-9	220	May 29, 1973	24	Auburn-Montgomery	0	1997 NBA Draft, Undrafted
Austin Croshere	PF	6-9	235	May 1, 1975	22	Providence	0	1997 Rnd 1, Pick 12, Indiana Pacers
Antonio Davis	FC	6-9	245	Oct 31, 1968	29	UTEP	4	1990 Rnd 2, Pick 18, Indiana Pacers
Dale Davis	C-F	6-11	252	Mar 25, 1969	29	Clemson	6	1991 Rnd 1, Pick 13, Indiana Pacers
Fred Hoiberg	SG	6-4	203	Oct 15, 1972	25	Iowa State	2	1995 Rnd 2, Pick 23, Indiana Pacers
Mark Jackson	PG	6-1	180	Apr 1, 1965	33	St. John's	10	1987 Rnd 1, Pick 18, New York Knicks
Derrick McKey	PF	6-9	205	Oct 10, 1966	31	Alabama	10	1987 Rnd 1, Pick 9, Seattle SuperSonics
Reggie Miller	SG	6-7	185	Aug 24, 1965	32	UCLA	10	1987 Rnd 1, Pick 11, Indiana Pacers
Chris Mullin	SF	6-7	215	Jul 30, 1963	34	St. John's	12	1985 Rnd 1, Pick 7, Golden State Warriors
Mark Pope	C-F	6-10	235	Sep 11, 1972	25	Kentucky	0	1996 Rnd 2, Pick 23, Indiana Pacers
Jalen Rose	SG	6-8	210	Jan 30, 1973	25	Michigan	3	1994 Rnd 1, Pick 13, Denver Nuggets
Rik Smits	C	7-4	250	Aug 23, 1966	31	Marist	9	1988 Rnd 1, Pick 2, Indiana Pacers
Mark West	C	6-10	230	Nov 5, 1960	37	Old Dominion	14	1983 Rnd 2, Pick 6, Dallas Mavericks
Haywoode Workman	PG	6-2	180	Jan 23, 1966	32	Oral Roberts	7	1989 Rnd 2, Pick 22, Atlanta Hawks

The Jazz in the Finals with Stockton, Malone and a bunch of garbage???

Shandon Anderson	SG	6-6	208	Dec 31, 1973	24	Georgia	1	1996 Rnd 2, Pick 25, Utah Jazz
Antoine Carr	PF	6-9	225	Jul 23, 1961	36	Wichita State	13	1983 Rnd 1, Pick 8, Detroit Pistons
Howard Eisley	PG	6-2	177	Dec 4, 1972	25	Boston College	3	1994 Rnd 2, Pick 3, Minnesota Timberwolves
Greg Foster	C	6-11	240	Oct 3, 1968	29	UTEP	7	1990 Rnd 2, Pick 8, Washington Wizards
Jeff Hornacek	PG	6-3	190	May 3, 1963	34	Iowa State	11	1986 Rnd 2, Pick 22, Phoenix Suns
Adam Keefe	PF	6-9	230	Feb 22, 1970	28	Stanford	5	1992 Rnd 1, Pick 10, Atlanta Hawks
Karl Malone	PF	6-9	265	Jul 24, 1963	34	Louisiana Tech	12	1985 Rnd 1, Pick 13, Utah Jazz
Chris Morris	PF	6-8	210	Jan 20, 1966	32	Auburn	9	1988 Rnd 1, Pick 4, New Jersey Nets
Greg Ostertag	C	7-2	280	Mar 6, 1973	25	Kansas	2	1995 Rnd 1, Pick 28, Utah Jazz
Bryon Russell	G-F	6-7	225	Dec 31, 1970	27	Long Beach State	4	1993 Rnd 2, Pick 18, Utah Jazz
John Stockton	PG	6-1	170	Mar 26, 1962	36	Gonzaga	13	1984 Rnd 1, Pick 16, Utah Jazz
Jacque Vaughn	PG	6-1	190	Feb 11, 1975	23	Kansas	0	1997 Rnd 1, Pick 27, Utah Jazz

You need to go back and look at the rosters of the old school teams. HOT Fukking GARBAGE. Most players on these teams weren't even role players back then. Just bench warmers that played in practice.

[Mac4Lyfe]

What are you even talking about? My comment had nothing to do with Boston, everything to do with Lebron.

I never said your post had anything to do with Boston.

I said... The Cav's were not as shitty as the media and everyone is trying to make it. and you said you stopped reading once I said that.

I then said that you must like losing money, since you obviously thought the Cav's were shitty, since you stopped reading. Your comment had everything to do with Cav's being shitty, since you said you didn't agree with my post.

[Eddy Munny]

I never said your post had anything to do with Boston.

I said... The Cav's were not as shitty as the media and everyone is trying to make it. and you said you stopped reading once I said that.

I then said that you must like losing money, since you obviously thought the Cav's were shitty, since you stopped reading. Your comment had everything to do with Cav's being shitty, since you said you didn't agree with my post.

I'm of the opinion that this Cavaliers squad outside of LBJ is indeed pretty weak, and that this fact is not being overstated. The degree to which Lebron has had to work to get them this far in the playoffs says it all. The man is 33 and played every single second of a game seven. Unreal.

Anyways, I thought your opening sentence was intended to temper the praise around Lebron by asserting that his team is actually pretty good. But as I can see, we're on the same side with this topic. My fault.

[nyplayer33]

Too much focus on comparing MJ and LJ with rings..titles. You can only truly do that in golf and tennis. Jerry west 1 for 9 in the finals...look at his numbers...he was great. Hes the only player to win playoff mvp on the losing team.

[nyplayer33]

Listen clearly.....Jordan left bulls they only won 2 less games without him. James leaves cavs next year...they win maybe 20 total.

[Slipknot26]

Here's the Bulls last title playoff run...

New Jersey

Michael Cage	F-C	6-9	224	Jan 28, 1962	36	San Diego State	13	1984 Rnd 1, Pick 14, San Diego Clippers
Sam Cassell	PG	6-3	185	Nov 18, 1969	28	Florida State	4	1993 Rnd 1, Pick 24, Houston Rockets
Sherman Douglas	PG	6-0	180	Sep 15, 1966	31	Syracuse	8	1989 Rnd 2, Pick 1, Miami Heat
Brian Evans	PF	6-8	220	Sep 13, 1973	24	Indiana	1	1996 Rnd 1, Pick 27, Orlando Magic
Chris Gatling	F-C	6-10	220	Sep 3, 1967	30	Old Dominion	6	1991 Rnd 1, Pick 16, Golden State Warriors
Kendall Gill	SG	6-5	195	May 25, 1968	29	Illinois	7	1990 Rnd 1, Pick 5, Charlotte Hornets (1988)
Jack Haley	FC	6-10	240	Jan 27, 1964	34	UCLA	10	1987 Rnd 4, Pick 10, Chicago Bulls
Lucious Harris	SG	6-5	190	Dec 18, 1970	27	Long Beach State	4	1993 Rnd 2, Pick 1, Dallas Mavericks
Kerry Kittles	SG	6-5	179	Jun 12, 1974	23	Villanova	1	1996 Rnd 1, Pick 8, New Jersey Nets
Don MacLean	PF	6-10	235	Jan 16, 1970	28	UCLA	5	1992 Rnd 1, Pick 19, Detroit Pistons
Rony Seikaly	C	6-11	230	May 10, 1965	32	Syracuse	9	1988 Rnd 1, Pick 9, Miami Heat
Keith Van Horn	PF	6-10	220	Oct 23, 1975	22	Utah	0	1997 Rnd 1, Pick 2, Philadelphia Sixers
David Vaughn	PF	6-9	240	Mar 23, 1973	25	Memphis	2	1995 Rnd 1, Pick 25, Orlando Magic
Jayson Williams	F-C	6-10	245	Feb 22, 1968	30	St. John's	7	1990 Rnd 1, Pick 21, Phoenix Suns

Where are the stars? Kendall Gill, Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn??? GTFOH

Charlotte Hornets...

B.J. Armstrong	PG	6-2	175	Sep 9, 1967	30	Iowa	8	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 18, Chicago Bulls
Corey Beck	PG	6-1	190	May 27, 1971	26	Arkansas	2	1995 NBA Draft, Undrafted
Dell Curry	SG	6-4	190	Jun 25, 1964	33	Virginia Tech	11	1986 Rnd 1, Pick 15, Utah Jazz
Vlade Divac	C	7-1	260	Feb 3, 1968	30	KK Partizan (Serbia)	8	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 26, Los Angeles Lakers
Matt Geiger	C	7-0	243	Sep 10, 1969	28	Georgia Tech	5	1992 Rnd 2, Pick 15, Miami Heat
Anthony Mason	SF	6-7	250	Dec 14, 1966	31	Tennessee State	9	1988 Rnd 3, Pick 3, Portland Trail Blazers
Vernon Maxwell	SG	6-4	180	Sep 12, 1965	32	Florida	9	1988 Rnd 2, Pick 22, Denver Nuggets
Bobby Phills	SG	6-5	215	Dec 20, 1969	28	Southern	6	1991 Rnd 2, Pick 18, Milwaukee Bucks
J.R. Reid	PF	6-9	247	Mar 31, 1968	30	North Carolina	7	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 5, Charlotte Hornets (1988)
Glen Rice	PF	6-8	228	May 28, 1967	30	Michigan	8	1989 Rnd 1, Pick 4, Miami Heat
Donald Royal	PF	6-8	210	May 22, 1966	31	Notre Dame	8	1987 Rnd 3, Pick 6, Cleveland Cavaliers
David Wesley	PG	6-0	190	Nov 14, 1970	27	Baylor	4	1992 NBA Draft, Undrafted
Travis Williams	SG	6-6	215	May 27, 1969	28	South Carolina State	0	1992 NBA Draft, Undrafted

Who on this lousy squad??? Vlade Divac? C'mon man.

The Pacers with Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller and a bunch of clowns???

Travis Best	PG	5-11	182	Jul 12, 1972	25	Georgia Tech	2	1995 Rnd 1, Pick 23, Indiana Pacers
Etdrick Bohannon	PF	6-9	220	May 29, 1973	24	Auburn-Montgomery	0	1997 NBA Draft, Undrafted
Austin Croshere	PF	6-9	235	May 1, 1975	22	Providence	0	1997 Rnd 1, Pick 12, Indiana Pacers
Antonio Davis	FC	6-9	245	Oct 31, 1968	29	UTEP	4	1990 Rnd 2, Pick 18, Indiana Pacers
Dale Davis	C-F	6-11	252	Mar 25, 1969	29	Clemson	6	1991 Rnd 1, Pick 13, Indiana Pacers
Fred Hoiberg	SG	6-4	203	Oct 15, 1972	25	Iowa State	2	1995 Rnd 2, Pick 23, Indiana Pacers
Mark Jackson	PG	6-1	180	Apr 1, 1965	33	St. John's	10	1987 Rnd 1, Pick 18, New York Knicks
Derrick McKey	PF	6-9	205	Oct 10, 1966	31	Alabama	10	1987 Rnd 1, Pick 9, Seattle SuperSonics
Reggie Miller	SG	6-7	185	Aug 24, 1965	32	UCLA	10	1987 Rnd 1, Pick 11, Indiana Pacers
Chris Mullin	SF	6-7	215	Jul 30, 1963	34	St. John's	12	1985 Rnd 1, Pick 7, Golden State Warriors
Mark Pope	C-F	6-10	235	Sep 11, 1972	25	Kentucky	0	1996 Rnd 2, Pick 23, Indiana Pacers
Jalen Rose	SG	6-8	210	Jan 30, 1973	25	Michigan	3	1994 Rnd 1, Pick 13, Denver Nuggets
Rik Smits	C	7-4	250	Aug 23, 1966	31	Marist	9	1988 Rnd 1, Pick 2, Indiana Pacers
Mark West	C	6-10	230	Nov 5, 1960	37	Old Dominion	14	1983 Rnd 2, Pick 6, Dallas Mavericks
Haywoode Workman	PG	6-2	180	Jan 23, 1966	32	Oral Roberts	7	1989 Rnd 2, Pick 22, Atlanta Hawks

The Jazz in the Finals with Stockton, Malone and a bunch of garbage???

Shandon Anderson	SG	6-6	208	Dec 31, 1973	24	Georgia	1	1996 Rnd 2, Pick 25, Utah Jazz
Antoine Carr	PF	6-9	225	Jul 23, 1961	36	Wichita State	13	1983 Rnd 1, Pick 8, Detroit Pistons
Howard Eisley	PG	6-2	177	Dec 4, 1972	25	Boston College	3	1994 Rnd 2, Pick 3, Minnesota Timberwolves
Greg Foster	C	6-11	240	Oct 3, 1968	29	UTEP	7	1990 Rnd 2, Pick 8, Washington Wizards
Jeff Hornacek	PG	6-3	190	May 3, 1963	34	Iowa State	11	1986 Rnd 2, Pick 22, Phoenix Suns
Adam Keefe	PF	6-9	230	Feb 22, 1970	28	Stanford	5	1992 Rnd 1, Pick 10, Atlanta Hawks
Karl Malone	PF	6-9	265	Jul 24, 1963	34	Louisiana Tech	12	1985 Rnd 1, Pick 13, Utah Jazz
Chris Morris	PF	6-8	210	Jan 20, 1966	32	Auburn	9	1988 Rnd 1, Pick 4, New Jersey Nets
Greg Ostertag	C	7-2	280	Mar 6, 1973	25	Kansas	2	1995 Rnd 1, Pick 28, Utah Jazz
Bryon Russell	G-F	6-7	225	Dec 31, 1970	27	Long Beach State	4	1993 Rnd 2, Pick 18, Utah Jazz
John Stockton	PG	6-1	170	Mar 26, 1962	36	Gonzaga	13	1984 Rnd 1, Pick 16, Utah Jazz
Jacque Vaughn	PG	6-1	190	Feb 11, 1975	23	Kansas	0	1997 Rnd 1, Pick 27, Utah Jazz

You need to go back and look at the rosters of the old school teams. HOT Fukking GARBAGE. Most players on these teams weren't even role players back then. Just bench warmers that played in practice.

Every piece of shit team you just wasted time on , as well as I copying would've beat The Al Horford Celtics into obvilion.
Like how you did pick the last year , please go back to the 1st and actually each teams roster , they play nightly to actually get the chance to get there .
Cavs know it's so bad they don't give a fukk about home throughout , means nothing in the shitty east .
Celtic team this year will go down Top 5 all time in your book .
These guys are pussies now , you bitched a solid hr about officiating in the in game thread , own it , it's built off bitch style basketball .
So 2 Olympians is now garbage , very interesting . Horford will go down as an all time great .
Like LeBron but the East is a joke , anyone claiming otherwise is lying to themselves .

[rm18]

That Pacers team was really good

[blankoblanco]

Listen clearly.....Jordan left bulls they only won 2 less games without him. James leaves cavs next year...they win maybe 20 total.

Amen. This is what I've been saying about LeBron for years. Other guy earlier posted the team James dragged to an amazing record and into the finals, and that team was a joke. MJ didn't get there without Pippen, etc.

It's just something to think about, if nothing else

[Mac4Lyfe]

Every piece of shit team you just wasted time on , as well as I copying would've beat The Al Horford Celtics into obvilion.
Like how you did pick the last year , please go back to the 1st and actually each teams roster , they play nightly to actually get the chance to get there .
Cavs know it's so bad they don't give a fukk about home throughout , means nothing in the shitty east .
Celtic team this year will go down Top 5 all time in your book .
These guys are pussies now , you bitched a solid hr about officiating in the in game thread , own it , it's built off bitch style basketball .
So 2 Olympians is now garbage , very interesting . Horford will go down as an all time great .
Like LeBron but the East is a joke , anyone claiming otherwise is lying to themselves .

You are too old to admit the truth. Players today are better than the old days. They are bigger, stronger and faster. They shoot at a better clip, they dribble better, they defend better, despite the bullshit notion that they were better defenders 30 years ago. No they weren't. Guys just weren't better offensively. Technology is better today, analytics wasn't even an understanding back then. Go look back at old videos for yourself. Guys played under the damn rim back then. They did not take the same contact these guys take night in and night out. Sure, I tell my kids that the old school basketball was better but it's a lie to make them play harder, just like walking 5 miles to school in the snow.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Listen clearly.....Jordan left bulls they only won 2 less games without him. James leaves cavs next year...they win maybe 20 total.

Lebron left the Cav's, they immediately went to last place the very next year. Lebron leaves the Heat, they immediately went to last place as well, even with Wade, Whiteside, Chalmers, ec...

[Mac4Lyfe]

I was at this game. We celebrated this night. It was electric. The game is much different now as the 3 ball has become the great equalizer. The game is much more open, where big guys cannot camp in the paint. Old school ball was played in the paint, while today it's played on the perimeter and you can't stay in the paint because too many shooters.

[Booya711]

Jordan can’t hold a candle to LeBron...and yes I grew up
with Jordan..