Kobe nobody wants to play with you because you're a loser

[DiggityDaggityDo]

....

[Smoke]

Daggles noooooooo

[Ralphie Halves]

5 rings puto...

Zero without Phil Jackson. Same for MJ.

Without Jackson, Kobe is Carmello Anthony.

[irishstuey]

Zero without Phil Jackson. Same for MJ.

Without Jackson, Kobe is Carmello Anthony.

Whoa, that's taking it too far. Carmello has never given a rats rectum about winning. Kobe did at one point.

[R.P. McMurphy]

And without MJ/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe and great supporting cast on both squads Phil might be Rick Adelman! Don't over sell the granola eating Zen master too much. Be more of a buyer if he had ever taken on even somewhat of a challenge and not road the coattails of leagues best 2 players at the time on his team. Players win titles, coaches just help guide the way. Just shocked he didn't jump on Brons nutsack after leaving Kobe. Guess Cleveland isn't a big enough market or he probably would have.

[Ralphie Halves]

And without MJ/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe and great supporting cast on both squads Phil might be Rick Adelman! Don't over sell the granola eating Zen master too much. Be more of a buyer if he had ever taken on even somewhat of a challenge and not road the coattails of leagues best 2 players at the time on his team. Players win titles, coaches just help guide the way. Just shocked he didn't jump on Brons nutsack after leaving Kobe. Guess Cleveland isn't a big enough market or he probably would have.

We had a good debate on Phil Jackson in another thread, I couldn't find it.

Pretty damning though. It's a chicken/egg type argument. Would Kobe be the HOFer he is without Phil? Seriously, take those years out, and keep Del Harris as the coach. We all want to say yes, but think only of the years where Phil wasn't there, and judge it on that. We all have those Shaq/Triangle offense years burned into our minds, and can't see the real picture.

"But Phil had Kobe AND Shaq". Not his fault. He actually got them to play together, which if you look at that now is pretty freaking amazing.

"But Jordan had Pippen". Pippen was a nobody without Phil.

Number of titles Kobe and MJ won without Phil? ZERO

[Ralphie Halves]

Whoa, that's taking it too far. Carmello has never given a rats rectum about winning. Kobe did at one point.

I'll give you that. How they go down in history is what I was referring to. I can't see Melo being a HOFer.

[R.P. McMurphy]

Well I'm pretty sure none of these guys have rings. Adelman,G Karl, D Nelson, and of course Lenny Wilkins who retired with most wins all-time. All great coaches just to name a few. I have zero doubt in my mind if any of those guys had landed with Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe/Shaq they would be wearing hardwear of their fingers. Put Shaq/Kobe together I guess and didn't mention the other "Robins" to throw Kobe a bone. Most acknowledge those Lakers teams as Shaqs!

[Ralphie Halves]

Well I'm pretty sure none of these guys have rings. Adelman,G Karl, D Nelson, and of course Lenny Wilkins who retired with most wins all-time. I have zero doubt in my mind if any of those guys had landed with Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe/Shaq they would be wearing hardwear of their fingers.

We can speculate all day with fantasy scenarios that don't amount to anything. All we do have in the end are facts.

And Lenny Wilkins had a losing record. So did Nolan Ryan, yeah yeah, I just never saw Wilkins as all that great. I was only around to see the last half of his coaching career though.

[R.P. McMurphy]

Tushay Ralphie Course I think also Bill Russell's Celts teams may have been overrated and their title run no as impressive as a few later dynasty's. Fewer teams in league, they had most the talent , shorter travel schedule and oh yeah too many white guys lol. Seriously Russel and Wilt were FREAKS in there day. I've always wondered how they would have fared in later decades. Still great I'm sure but not AS dominant. Gotta mention Kareem who I saw play growing up but best big man is the Dream!

[Ralphie Halves]

Tushay Ralphie Course I think also Bill Russell's Celts teams may have been overrated and their title run no as impressive as a few later dynasty's. Fewer teams in league, they had most the talent , shorter travel schedule and oh yeah too many white guys lol. Seriously Russel and Wilt were FREAKS in there day. I've always wondered how they would have fared in later decades. Still great I'm sure but not AS dominant. Gotta mention Kareem who I saw play growing up but best big man is the Dream!

He's the best I've seen too. The only player I think could be like him some day is Joel Embiid, if he can ever stay healthy. Dream turned every block into an interception, which was so smart, and nobody thinks to do that nowadays.

[pavyracer]

Kobe hasn't won anything for a long time. Jordan left while on top. Too sad to watch Kobe play just for the money and individual records.

[terrortwylight]

no one wants to play with him bc he's a rapist

[Jeffie]

Kobe hasn't won anything for a long time. Jordan left while on top. Too sad to watch Kobe play just for the money and individual records.

He left on top of what? he never won a ring with the wizards and sure in the hell wasn't the best player in the league at that point.