Derek Jeter - Best Black Shortstop of All Time?

**Big Bear** · 02-20-14, 10:07 PM

Barry Larkin gets my vote

**stevenash** · 02-20-14, 10:17 PM

^
Why?

**manny24** · 02-20-14, 11:10 PM

Renteria

**15805** · 02-20-14, 11:22 PM

Jeter is without doubt the best SS in Yankee history but falls far short of being in the Mt. Rushmore of SS as some posters here think.
Every real baseball historian has Honus Wagner as the greatest & some say there is more of a distance between Wagner & #2 is greater than the distance between #2 & #19 (Bill James).

During Jeters career 2 AL SS won the MVP so it's reasonable to say that 2 & maybe 3 of his contemporaries had better peak years than
Jeter. Jeter never won in any of the Triple Crown catagories in a season & the sabermetric crowd of which I'm not one rate him slightly below average in the field.

Right behind Wagner is Arky Vaughn, Vaughn had the greatest season any SS ever had & during his 3 year peak he averaged .351 &
while leading the league in walks all 3 years managed to break the Pirates HR record at that time & he was the first SS ever to have a
.600 SLG. PCT.

After Vaughn you have Ropken, Yount, Banks, Larkin, Smith, Cronin & Luke Appling. Jeter deserves inclusion into this group. Take your pick!

**15805** · 02-20-14, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Boner_18

He's more black than our "black" president.

Politics..... GGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Obama is more black than Jeter. Obama's father was 100% black from Kenya, It's estimated that American Blacks whose ancestors go back many generations have on average 15% white blood so Jeter is probably 60% white, Obama definitely 50%.

However Jeter is black like Roy Campenella another great player of mixed ancestry, that means before 1947 he wouldn't have been on a major league roster!

**flyingillini** · 02-20-14, 11:35 PM

Just talking about defense Ozzie was the best and Marty Marion 2nd

**Andy117** · 02-20-14, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by bubblebuttluv

I'll never consider A-Rod a SS. Sure he played as one when before he joined the Yankees, but when he came to The Bronx he knew his place.

A-Rod is a third baseman and a disgrace to baseball.

A-Rod was a better SS than Jeter.

**k13** · 02-21-14, 11:04 AM

People talk about PED's....

Home Runs have not really changed since the Steroid Era supposedly stopped...

**bubblebuttluv** · 02-21-14, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Andy117

A-Rod was a better SS than Jeter.

Lol.

A-Rod is overrated and has been for a good while.

A-Rod is everything that is wrong with baseball.

**jtoler** · 02-21-14, 12:00 PM

Always thought Jeter was overrated, as an athlete he just never wowed me, with that said he was a tough out, fielded his position well, and plays the game the right way

**15805** · 02-21-14, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by k13

People talk about PED's....

Home Runs have not really changed since the Steroid Era supposedly stopped...

The amount of HR's that the leaders hit has sure changed and they were the main culprits. Sammy Sosa hit over 60 homeruns 3 times
and wasn't the league leader in any of those 3 seasons. That's evidence of the video game stats the roiders accumulated.

**You mad bro** · 02-21-14, 12:46 PM

nash k13 is a bandwagon 49ers fan bro

don't even listen to him

**Doughboy22** · 02-21-14, 12:49 PM

Honus no doubt

**Doughboy22** · 02-21-14, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by flyingillini

Just talking about defense Ozzie was the best and Marty Marion 2nd

Best defensive shortstop of all time will be Jose Iglesias if his bat can keep him in the league

**You mad bro** · 02-21-14, 12:58 PM

Honus Wagner

1897	23	LOU	NL	62	263	242	38	81	18	4	2	39	20		15	14	.335	.376	.467	.843	125	113	1	5	O/4
1898	24	LOU	NL	151	635	588	80	176	29	3	10	105	27		31	20	.299	.341	.410	.751	115	241	6	10	354
1899	25	LOU	NL	148	630	575	100	196	45	13	7	114	37		40	36	.341	.395	.501	.895	145	288	11	4	5O/43
1900	26	PIT	NL	135	580	527	107	201	45	22	4	100	38		41	17	*.381*	.434	*.573*	*1.007*	*176*	*302*	8	4	*O/5431
1901	27	PIT	NL	140	619	549	101	194	37	11	6	*126*	49		53	39	.353	.417	.494	.911	159	271	7	10	6O5/4
1902	28	PIT	NL	136	599	534	105	176	30	16	3	91	42		43	51	.330	.394	.463	.857	162	247	14	8	O63/41
1903	29	PIT	NL	129	571	512	97	182	30	19	5	101	46		44	17	*.355*	.414	.518	.931	160	265	7	8	*6O/3
1904	30	PIT	NL	132	558	490	97	171	44	14	4	75	53		59	44	.349	*.423*	.520	.944	188	255	4	5	*6/O34
1905	31	PIT	NL	147	616	548	114	199	32	14	6	101	57		54	53	.363	.427	.505	.932	175	277	7	7	*6/O
1906	32	PIT	NL	142	590	516	*103*	175	38	9	2	71	53		58	31	.339	.416	.459	.875	168	237	10	6	*6/O5
1907	33	PIT	NL	142	580	515	98	180	38	14	6	82	61		46	40	.350	*.408*	*.513*	*.921*	*187*	264	5	14	*6/3
1908	34	PIT	NL	151	641	568	100	*201*	39	19	10	*109*	53		54	22	*.354*	*.415*	*.542*	*.957*	*205*	*308*	5	14	*6
1909	35	PIT	NL	137	591	495	92	168	39	10	5	100	35		66	24	.339	.420	.489	.909	177	242	3	27	*6/O
1910	36	PIT	NL	150	640	556	90	178	34	8	4	81	24		59	47	.320	.390	.432	.822	133	240	5	20	*63/4
1911	37	PIT	NL	130	558	473	87	158	23	16	9	89	20		67	34	.334	.423	.507	.930	156	240	6	12	63/O	MVP-3
1912	38	PIT	NL	145	634	558	91	181	35	20	7	102	26		59	38	.324	.395	.496	.891	144	277	6	11	*6	MVP-2
1913	39	PIT	NL	114	454	413	51	124	18	4	3	56	21	11	26	40	.300	.349	.385	.734	113	159	5	10	*6	MVP-8
1914	40	PIT	NL	150	616	552	60	139	15	9	1	50	23		51	51	.252	.317	.317	.634	93	175	2	11	*65/3
1915	41	PIT	NL	156	625	566	68	155	32	17	6	78	22	15	39	64	.274	.325	.422	.747	127	239	4	16	*643
1916	42	PIT	NL	123	485	432	45	124	15	9	1	39	11		34	36	.287	.350	.370	.721	121	160	8	10	63/4
1917	43	PIT	NL	74	263	230	15	61	7	1	0	24	5		24	17	.265	.337	.304	.642	95	70	1	9	35/46
21 Yrs				2794	11748	10439	1739	3420	643	252	101	1733	723	26	963	735	.328	.391	.467	.858	151	4870	125	221
162 Game Avg.				162	681	605	101	198	37	15	6	100	42		56	43	.328	.391	.467	.858	151	282	7	13

look at the 162 game averages for a SS

Derek Jeter

1995	21	NYY	AL	15	51	48	5	12	4	1	0	7	0	0	3	11	.250	.294	.375	.669	74	18	0	0	0	0	0	6
1996	22	NYY	AL	157	654	582	104	183	25	6	10	78	14	7	48	102	.314	.370	.430	.800	101	250	13	9	6	9	1	*6	RoY-1
1997	23	NYY	AL	159	*748*	654	116	190	31	7	10	70	23	12	74	125	.291	.370	.405	.775	103	265	14	10	8	2	0	*6	MVP-24
1998	24	NYY	AL	149	694	626	127	203	25	8	19	84	30	6	57	119	.324	.384	.481	.864	127	301	13	5	3	3	1	*6	AS,MVP-3
1999	25	NYY	AL	158	739	627	134	*219*	37	9	24	102	19	8	91	116	.349	.438	.552	.989	153	346	12	12	3	6	5	*6	AS,MVP-6
2000	26	NYY	AL	148	679	593	119	201	31	4	15	73	22	4	68	99	.339	.416	.481	.896	128	285	14	12	3	3	4	*6	AS,MVP-10
2001	27	NYY	AL	150	686	614	110	191	35	3	21	74	27	3	56	99	.311	.377	.480	.858	124	295	13	10	5	1	3	*6	AS,MVP-10
2002	28	NYY	AL	157	730	644	124	191	26	0	18	75	32	3	73	114	.297	.373	.421	.794	111	271	14	7	3	3	2	*6/D	AS
2003	29	NYY	AL	119	542	482	87	156	25	3	10	52	11	5	43	88	.324	.393	.450	.844	125	217	10	13	3	1	2	*6	MVP-21
2004	30	NYY	AL	154	721	643	111	188	44	1	23	78	23	4	46	99	.292	.352	.471	.823	114	303	19	14	16	2	1	*6	AS,MVP-13,GG
2005	31	NYY	AL	159	*752*	654	122	202	25	5	19	70	14	5	77	117	.309	.389	.450	.839	125	294	15	11	7	3	3	*6/D	MVP-10,GG
2006	32	NYY	AL	154	715	623	118	214	39	3	14	97	34	5	69	102	.343	.417	.483	.900	132	301	13	12	7	4	4	*6/D	AS,MVP-2,GG,SS
2007	33	NYY	AL	156	714	639	102	206	39	4	12	73	15	8	56	100	.322	.388	.452	.840	121	289	21	14	3	2	3	*6	AS,MVP-11,SS
2008	34	NYY	AL	150	668	596	88	179	25	3	11	69	11	5	52	85	.300	.363	.408	.771	102	243	24	9	7	4	0	*6/D	AS,SS
2009	35	NYY	AL	153	716	634	107	212	27	1	18	66	30	5	72	90	.334	.406	.465	.871	125	295	18	5	4	1	4	*6/D	AS,MVP-3,GG,SS
2010	36	NYY	AL	157	739	663	111	179	30	3	10	67	18	5	63	106	.270	.340	.370	.710	90	245	22	9	1	3	4	*6/D	AS,GG
2011	37	NYY	AL	131	607	546	84	162	24	4	6	61	16	6	46	81	.297	.355	.388	.743	100	212	10	6	4	5	0	*6D	AS
2012	38	NYY	AL	159	*740*	*683*	99	*216*	32	0	15	58	9	4	45	90	.316	.362	.429	.791	114	293	24	5	6	1	1	*6D	AS,MVP-7,SS
2013	39	NYY	AL	17	73	63	8	12	1	0	1	7	0	0	8	10	.190	.288	.254	.542	51	16	3	1	0	1	1	6/D
19 Yrs				2602	11968	10614	1876	3316	525	65	256	1261	348	95	1047	1753	.312	.381	.446	.828	117	4739	272	164	89	54	39
162 Game Avg.				162	745	661	117	206	33	4	16	79	22	6	65	109	.312	.381	.446	.828	117	295	17	10	6	3	2

**imadegen** · 02-21-14, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by k13

Jeter is overrated cause of new york.
No one would care for him on a small market team.

Cal put up good numbers not just showed up to play.

A- rod the best if he counts. Who cares about steroids. Everyone is on them.

Firstly, A-Rod doesn't count. Why would you count someone who has played only half of his career at SS the best SS of all time? Doesn't make sense. Secondly, who cares about steroids? The lead candidates as mentioned for best SS are: Ripken, Jeter, Wagner, and Ozzie Smith, all of which never used PEDS, so yes for the sake of discussion we all care about steroids. Thirdly, Jeter overated cause of new york? What kind of statement is that. What the hell does that even mean?

**You mad bro** · 02-21-14, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by imadegen

Firstly, A-Rod doesn't count. Why would you count someone who has played only half of his career at SS the best SS of all time? Doesn't make sense. Secondly, who cares about steroids? The lead candidates as mentioned for best SS are: Ripken, Jeter, Wagner, and Ozzie Smith, all of which never used PEDS, so yes for the sake of discussion we all care about steroids. Thirdly, Jeter overated cause of new york? What kind of statement is that. What the hell does that even mean?

i guess every yankee is overrated because of new york

k13 is just a bandwagon 49ers troll ....

**stevenash** · 02-21-14, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by flyingillini

Just talking about defense Ozzie was the best and Marty Marion 2nd

Ozzie was the greatest baseball player that ever played when it comes to defense and defense only, and includes Roberto Clemente who was the greatest RF regarding defense that ever lived.

**I/O** · 02-21-14, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Boner_18

He's more black than our "black" president.

Politics..... GGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Jeter's definitely more African American than Barry

**I/O** · 02-21-14, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by k13

People talk about PED's....

Home Runs have not really changed since the Steroid Era supposedly stopped...

there's more to home run numbers than just PED's

**I/O** · 02-21-14, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by 15805

Obama is more black than Jeter. Obama's father was 100% black from Kenya, It's estimated that American Blacks whose ancestors go back many generations have on average 15% white blood so Jeter is probably 60% white, Obama definitely 50%.

However Jeter is black like Roy Campenella another great player of mixed ancestry, that means before 1947 he wouldn't have been on a major league roster!

you got a link on this?

**I/O** · 02-21-14, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

^
Why?

Nash, don't do that ever again

**stevenash** · 02-21-14, 08:12 PM

^
Why?

**BigPage25** · 02-22-14, 02:56 AM

Jeter is the best mulatto shortstop of all time

**15805** · 02-22-14, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by I/O

you got a link on this?

http://www.isteve.com/2002_How_White_Are_Blacks.htm

is just one of many studies considering white blood in blacks whose ancestors came here before or soon after
the US became a nation.

A paragraph

Earlier, cruder studies, done before direct genetic testing was feasible, suggested that African-Americans were 25 or even 30 percent white. Shriver's project is not complete, but with data from 25 sites already in, he is coming up with 17-18 percent white ancestry among African-Americans. That's the equivalent of 106 of those 128 of your ancestors from seven generations ago having been Africans and 22 Europeans.