Obama raising min wage- what do you think?

[pavyracer]

It's a testament to your stupidity that you still can't grasp what happens when you increase wages, take a look what is happening in ND. They have a city with the highest rent in the country, higher than any city in LA or NYC. Now why do you think that is?

I think this is a testament of your stupidity concluding that the highest rent in the country in ND is because of the potential increase of the minimum wage.

You think they hire oil workers for minimum wage? Oh God you may have outdone yourself here. I'd let you dig your own grave. Carry on..

[brooks85]

I think this is a testament of your stupidity concluding that the highest rent in the country in ND is because of the potential increase of the minimum wage.

You think they hire oil workers for minimum wage? Oh God you may have outdone yourself here. I'd let you dig your own grave. Carry on..

Wtf are you talking about? There is no "potential" increase, it's already happened in the boom towns and so has the subsequent increase in prices. No where did I say or elude that the rent in ND is affected by a potential nationwide increase in wages. What I did show you was an example of what's going to happen if everyone gets a 20+% bump in pay for no reason. They will be charged more, very simple to understand and that doesn't even touch on the increase in unemployment if you raise minimum wages.

You clearly need to spend more time listening and reading and then re-reading again, not thinking.

[newguy]

So if you truly understand the laws of supply and demand, then let's look at it that way and see if we can get you on the right track.

If everyone in this country is supplied a higher minimum wage, what does that do to demand of companies paying those wages?

You can find a hint by looking at Australia.

My man - I have a undegrad minor in econ from U of Florida and an MBA from University of Chicago with a concentration in economics. I would venture to guess I am in the top 1% of forum posters here as far as knowledge of supply/demand.

What I was saying (and for the record I believe you and I are on the same political side here) is that the ND example isn't really supportive of this particular conversation without a better explanation. I think what you are trying to show is that when pay goes up, prices go up as well, which is true. My point is that in Williston, the rent is high because of a scarcity of resources (available homes), not because of pay (obviously they are still slightly correlated). I was just saying I think there are better arguments that can be made for keeping min.wage where it currently is.

[pavyracer]

Wtf are you talking about? There is no "potential" increase, it's already happened in the boom towns and so has the subsequent increase in prices. No where did I say or elude that the rent in ND is affected by a potential nationwide increase in wages. What I did show you was an example of what's going to happen if everyone gets a 20+% bump in pay for no reason. They will be charged more, very simple to understand and that doesn't even touch on the increase in unemployment if you raise minimum wages.

You clearly need to spend more time listening and reading and then re-reading again, not thinking.

I am pretty sure the government only wants to change the minimum wage..and not give everyone who works a 20% raise.

This is what you highlighted in my post..a small increase in minimum wage..

[stevenash]

i just gave u one dickhead. I have been saying this for years. I would give u ten more but unfortunately im headed to work unlike ur buddy Nash who post 24-7

Work on President's day weekend?
I got a paid three day weekend off, you off to mop up the splooge in the peepshow for 7 dollars an hour?
It's coming together now, this is why you want 10.10 an hour. I get it now.

[DwightShrute]

[newguy]

Work on President's day weekend?
I got a paid three day weekend off, you off to mop up the splooge in the peepshow for 7 dollars an hour?
It's coming together now, this is why you want 10.10 an hour. I get it now.

I had to work today too - so working today didn't automatically mean much. Banks, schools, and gov't closed today - most everything else is open it seems

[brooks85]

My man - I have a undegrad minor in econ from U of Florida and an MBA from University of Chicago with a concentration in economics. I would venture to guess I am in the top 1% of forum posters here as far as knowledge of supply/demand.

What I was saying (and for the record I believe you and I are on the same political side here) is that the ND example isn't really supportive of this particular conversation without a better explanation. I think what you are trying to show is that when pay goes up, prices go up as well, which is true. My point is that in Williston, the rent is high because of a scarcity of resources (available homes), not because of pay (obviously they are still slightly correlated). I was just saying I think there are better arguments that can be made for keeping min.wage where it currently is.

Well, I have no doubt you know more about economics than me then and the scarcity of apartments may seem like the only reason but I don't think its that simple and here is why I compare to it raising a large group of people's wages at once because that is what has happened in these towns essentially because of how small their populations were prior. To me it's not a simple commodity like oranges or guns let's say, that explains this example The overall cost of living in these towns have gone up, not just rent. These boom towns saw an influx on population of relativity wealthy individuals compared to the surrounding area and that's the key factor. Of course, you could argue supply and demand and call it day.

But, if these people were there for any number of other reasons prices would not jump like this, its the fact they actually have money to spend. Even if they had enough apartments in this town prices would go up, obviously not number 1 in the country but they would go up because large chunk of the population now has more money to spend. This town was empty and is now full of people making 50k+ a year, fast food workers making 15/hr, even when they have enough apartments, prices will settle but still be based on everyone's average salary which is going to be much higher than before. So my point is you just give a large chunk of the population in the country, or a town, a raise in pay it's going to affect prices across the board.

[stevenash]

I had to work today too - so working today didn't automatically mean much. Banks, schools, and gov't closed today - most everything else is open it seems

Dude, it wasn't directed at you.
It was directed at Thor and his stupid remark about how I post here 24/7.
a) I don't post 24/7 here or anywhere else
b) The reason why I am posting a lot the last couple of days is because a) it's cold as hell outside, like 10 degrees, and b) there is 19 inches of snow on the ground, and we are getting 5" more.
c) It's a long weekend, i have time to burn playing on the internet

Carry on NG

[KingJD31]

great idea lets take economic lessons from chicago

Ontario has a higher population and not much has really changed since all the minimum wage increases. Going up again this.

Rent has nothing to do with minimum wage.

Chicago has a higher than average min. wage yet their real estate and rent is cheap for a big city.

Not sure where you guys get all this "sky is falling" because of some small increases. Government will waste more money on other useless things anyway.

Raise wage to $20 whatever, life goes on.

Economy adjusts.

[KingJD31]

Lets take economic advice from California, jersey and Illinois. With thehelp of them we can achieve 25% unemployment

[King Mayan]

Dude, it wasn't directed at you.
It was directed at Thor and his stupid remark about how I post here 24/7.
a) I don't post 24/7 here or anywhere else
b) The reason why I am posting a lot the last couple of days is because a) it's cold as hell outside, like 10 degrees, and b) there is 19 inches of snow on the ground, and we are getting 5" more.
c) It's a long weekend, i have time to burn playing on the internet

Carry on NG

Cut the bullshit Stevie.. Look at your long ass posts.. Every thread/post you start is longer than the bible...some people don't have the privilege to write novels on here.. Some people have to be productive now run along and get that coffee for your boss...

[King Mayan]

Lets take economic advice from California

the 8th largest economy in the world... By it's self...

Maybe we should take advice from you smelly Greeks instead..

[stevenash]

Cut the bullshit Stevie.. Look at your long ass posts.. Every thread/post you start is longer than the bible...some people don't have the privilege to write novels on here.. Some people have to be productive now run along and get that coffee for your boss...

Cut the shit?
Don't worry, you'll get your piece.

I can post from home, from work, where ever.

That's the beauty of being one of the best I/T guys that ever lived, I can do what I want, when I want.
I can work from home, I can work at the office.

Now STFU Mayate and cut my lawn

[King Mayan]

Stevie being an 20 hr a week cubicle worker/Starbucks fetcher doesn't mean you're the best IT guy in the world..

Now run along and get out of daddys basement..

[stevenash]

Stevie being an 20 hr a week cubicle worker/Starbucks fetcher doesn't mean you're the best IT guy in the world..

Now run along and get out of daddys basement..

I like you dude, you can go insult for insult.

[Thor4140]

Work on President's day weekend?
I got a paid three day weekend off, you off to mop up the splooge in the peepshow for 7 dollars an hour?
It's coming together now, this is why you want 10.10 an hour. I get it now.

LOL i got paid somewhere over 120 and hour for those 4 hours i worked last night. Good try tho. U see Nash just today a guy walked by me in the train station. Wanted to borrow 50 cents. I gave him two bucks and couldn't care less what he did with it. Now your type? U would possibly spit on the guy. Im a giver and u are a taker unless ur take is also offered to the top 1 percent. Then u become a giver. Load up that trunk and fight the good fight for the rich guy who u will never get close to in wages.

[stevenash]

LOL i got paid somewhere over 120 and hour for those 4 hours i worked last night. Good try tho. U see Nash just today a guy walked by me in the train station. Wanted to borrow 50 cents. I gave him two bucks and couldn't care less what he did with it. Now your type? U would possibly spit on the guy. Im a giver and u are a taker unless ur take is also offered to the top 1 percent. Then u become a giver. Load up that trunk and fight the good fight for the rich guy who u will never get close to in wages.

They pay that much for mopping up splooge?

I got mine dude. Who cares about the cradle to grave welfare cheats.

[stevenash]

LOL i got paid somewhere over 120 and hour for those 4 hours i worked last night. Good try tho. U see Nash just today a guy walked by me in the train station. Wanted to borrow 50 cents. I gave him two bucks and couldn't care less what he did with it. Now your type? U would possibly spit on the guy. Im a giver and u are a taker unless ur take is also offered to the top 1 percent. Then u become a giver. Load up that trunk and fight the good fight for the rich guy who u will never get close to in wages.

120 an hour?
God, what a bullshit artist you are

[hockey216]

raising min wage lowers quantity of jobs. called a price floor. look at its effect on quantity. i graphed it. learn what supply and demand is, and learn to read a graph, liberals. You go from Qe to Qf (equilibrium quantity to quantity demanded with the price floor. There is a surplus. Workers would collectively actually make more without the price floor, dummies. Some people make more at the expense of millions of other workers losing their jobs.

stop living in fantasy land. Higher prices reduces demand. Minimum wage just destroys jobs.

Go to college. Study it. Your sociology professor doesn't know what she's talking about.

[The Madcap]

raising min wage lowers quantity of jobs. called a price floor. look at its effect on quantity. i graphed it. learn what supply and demand is, and learn to read a graph, liberals. You go from Qe to Qf (equilibrium quantity to quantity demanded with the price floor. There is a surplus. Workers would collectively actually make more without the price floor, dummies. Some people make more at the expense of millions of other workers losing their jobs.

stop living in fantasy land. Higher prices reduces demand. Minimum wage just destroys jobs.

Go to college. Study it. Your sociology professor doesn't know what she's talking about.

[ATTACH]65728[/ATTACH]

For liberals, going to college just makes things worse. They end up in classrooms run by anus-licking commies who wouldn't know the truth about economics if Joseph Stalin rammed it down their throats on an iron stake. And so four years go by and they come out clamoring for a raise in the minimum wage because all their pinko professors are either too stupid or intellectually corrupt to teach them the actual history of things like...


" The first federal minimum wage law, the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931, was passed in part explicitly to prevent black construction workers from "taking jobs" from white construction workers by working for lower wages. It was not meant to protect black workers from "exploitation" but to protect white workers from competition."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-11_15_05_TS.html

or that...

"In Western European countries whose social policies liberals consider more "advanced" than our own, including more generous minimum wage laws and other employer-mandated benefits, it has been common in even prosperous years for unemployment rates among young people to be 20 percent or higher."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_19922475

or

Switzerland is one of the few modern nations without a minimum-wage law. In 2003, The Economist magazine reported: “Switzerland’s unemployment neared a five-year high of 3.9 percent in February.” In February of this year, Switzerland’s unemployment rate was 3.1 percent. A recent issue of The Economist reported Switzerland’s unemployment rate as 2.1 percent.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-thomas-sowell


OR

In the United States, the last year in which the black unemployment rate was lower than the white unemployment rate — 1930 — was also the last year when there was no federal minimum-wage law. Inflation in the 1940s raised the pay of even unskilled workers above the minimum wage set in 1938. Economically, it was the same as if there were no minimum-wage law by the late 1940s.
In 1948 the unemployment rate of black 16-year-old and 17-year-old males was 9.4 percent. This was a fraction of what it would become in even the most prosperous years from 1958 on, as the minimum wage was raised repeatedly to keep up with inflation.



But hey, since liberals think what they think because they want to help people then they must be right.

[grease lightnin]

What they need to do is lower the corporate tax rate and close the loopholes while allowing big corporations to repatriate all the big dollars offshore back to the US without taxing it. This will create jobs for those who are sitting on their asses and doing nothing because they are no longer relevant in the labor market. They are going to have to accept that a 40k /yr job for unskilled workers doesn't make sense and that it never did.

Entitlements such as welfare and unemployment must come with a price that will encourage people to get off of it and it must pay substantially lower than the minimum wage.

Cap gains over a certain amount, say $1 mil, should also be raised to the top income bracket and be taxed at 39.5%.

as far as minimum wage, I don't think there should be one. You should earn what you're worth. Let the market demand your price. If you are bitching about the minimum wage, chances are you aren't worth the price it is at now.

[The Madcap]

What they need to do is lower the corporate tax rate and close the loopholes while allowing big corporations to repatriate all the big dollars offshore back to the US without taxing it. This will create jobs for those who are sitting on their asses and doing nothing because they are no longer relevant in the labor market. They are going to have to accept that a 40k /yr job for unskilled workers doesn't make sense and that it never did.

Entitlements such as welfare and unemployment must come with a price that will encourage people to get off of it and it must pay substantially lower than the minimum wage.

Cap gains over a certain amount, say $1 mil, should also be raised to the top income bracket and be taxed at 39.5%.

as far as minimum wage, I don't think there should be one. You should earn what you're worth. Let the market demand your price. If you are bitching about the minimum wage, chances are you aren't worth the price it is at now.

ain't that the fukkin truth.

[King Mayan]

Unbelievable the stupid motherffukers brainwashed by big business in here

[The Madcap]

Unbelievable the stupid motherffukers brainwashed by big business in here

"Big Business" supports the minimum wage you dumb fuk. It impedes their competition. Talk about brainwashed. You don't even know what enemy you're supposed to be bashing. Now that's




Try reading those links I posted. The guy's a PHD economics professor from Stanford. He also grew up as a poor black kid in the segregated south. If there's anybody's opinion you should consider, it's his. And if you find the concepts are above you're head, well then, nevermind. You're SOL.

[King Mayan]

I ain't reading you're Uncle Tom bullshit you fat fukk

And here goes another dumb fukk that think big business is helping out the little dude holy fukk...

[The Madcap]

I ain't reading you're Uncle Tom bullshit you fat fukk

And here goes another dumb fukk that think big business is helping out the little dude holy fukk...

holy fukk why don't you learn to read. I don't think big business is helping out the little dude. They're totally fukking him over. Unfortunately you're too fukking dumb/uneducated/poor to understand how they're doing it. Maybe if you did you'd realize we're actually on the same side.

[Optional]

raising min wage lowers quantity of jobs. called a price floor. look at its effect on quantity. i graphed it. learn what supply and demand is, and learn to read a graph, liberals. You go from Qe to Qf (equilibrium quantity to quantity demanded with the price floor. There is a surplus. Workers would collectively actually make more without the price floor, dummies. Some people make more at the expense of millions of other workers losing their jobs.

stop living in fantasy land. Higher prices reduces demand. Minimum wage just destroys jobs.

Go to college. Study it. Your sociology professor doesn't know what she's talking about.

[ATTACH]65728[/ATTACH]

Why doesn't your graph seem to fit all the countries with high minimum wages?

Countries who update the minimum wage annually to keep pace with inflation too. Why is the US the only place that thinks what was set 5 years ago will do for today?

You've got your head in the sand.

	US$/hr	Updated
Australia	16.88	1-Jul-13
Luxembourg	14.24	1-Oct-13
Monaco	12.83	1-Jan-14
France	12.22	1-Jan-14
Belgium	11.69	1-Apr-13
San Marino	11.49	2012
New Zealand	11.18	1-Apr-13
Ireland	11.09	1-Jul-11
Netherlands	10.99	1-Jan-14
United Kingdom	10.02	1-Oct-13
Canada	9.95	1-Sep-13
Japan	8.32	6-Nov-13
United States	7.25	24-Jul-09
Andorra	7.12	1-Jan-14
Israel	5.99	1-Oct-12
Slovenia	5.8	1-Jan-13
Spain	5.57	1-Jan-13
Malta	5.51	1-Jan-13
Greece	5.06	1-Jan-13
South Korea	4.63	1-Jan-14
Oman	4.39	1-Jul-13
Portugal	4.19	1-Jan-11
Argentina	4.13	1-Jan-14

[King Mayan]

holy fukk why don't you learn to read. I don't think big business is helping out the little dude. They're totally fukking him over. Unfortunately you're too fukking dumb/uneducated/poor to understand how they're doing it. Maybe if you did you'd realize we're actually on the same side.

read some propagand=educated and rich.../lmao:

[The Madcap]

read some propagand=educated and rich.../lmao:

is that English?



I don't know why I'm even bothering talking to you considering your avatar. You gotta be one dumb unread summabitch to wanna honor that piece of shit. So here, as a peace offering, I'll offer you a well written article penned by a fellow liberal minded individual such as yourself. You can either read it and educate yourself, or you can pass and reveal yourself to be the lazy/intellectually corrupt commie spitoon we all figure you are.


http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2004/09/the_cult_of_che.html

[sickler]

Why doesn't your graph seem to fit all the countries with high minimum wages?

Countries who update the minimum wage annually to keep pace with inflation too. Why is the US the only place that thinks what was set 5 years ago will do for today?

You've got your head in the sand.

	US$/hr	Updated
Australia	16.88	1-Jul-13
Luxembourg	14.24	1-Oct-13
Monaco	12.83	1-Jan-14
France	12.22	1-Jan-14
Belgium	11.69	1-Apr-13
San Marino	11.49	2012
New Zealand	11.18	1-Apr-13
Ireland	11.09	1-Jul-11
Netherlands	10.99	1-Jan-14
United Kingdom	10.02	1-Oct-13
Canada	9.95	1-Sep-13
Japan	8.32	6-Nov-13
United States	7.25	24-Jul-09
Andorra	7.12	1-Jan-14
Israel	5.99	1-Oct-12
Slovenia	5.8	1-Jan-13
Spain	5.57	1-Jan-13
Malta	5.51	1-Jan-13
Greece	5.06	1-Jan-13
South Korea	4.63	1-Jan-14
Oman	4.39	1-Jul-13
Portugal	4.19	1-Jan-11
Argentina	4.13	1-Jan-14

Problem with a graph like this is it doesn't reflect differences in the cost of living in different countries.

[King Mayan]

is that English?



I don't know why I'm even bothering talking to you considering your avatar. You gotta be one dumb unread summabitch to wanna honor that piece of shit. So here, as a peace offering, I'll offer you a well written article penned by a fellow liberal minded individual such as yourself. You can either read it and educate yourself, or you can pass and reveal yourself to be the lazy/intellectually corrupt commie spitoon we all figure you are.


http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2004/09/the_cult_of_che.html

more propaganda.. Look fat fukk..Get off your computer and go live life... Because clearly you only know what somebody else tells you...

As for Che, you only see what your masters tell you(again)... Now run along puto and sukk some white dikk..

[rkelly110]

Not an econ scholar and the like, just going by my long life and memory. Since starting work at $1.10 an hour
the minimum has gone up pretty much with inflation until recently.

With a raise in the minimum, I've noticed people who don't make minimum, salary or hourly, their money has
gone up when the minimum was raised.

People today, for a while now, if they were lucky, got a 2% raise. If they do raise the minimum wage, eventually
it will affect everyone. So, supporting a minimum wage hike could be beneficial to each and everyone here.

[LT Profits]

I still make less than minimum wage when you factor in how many hours I put in for SBR.

[Optional]

Problem with a graph like this is it doesn't reflect differences in the cost of living in different countries.

True, but I'd say even without the figures most would agree the quality of life in all the countries paying over US$10/hr min is at least good in comparison to the USA.

And it looks like the opposite might be true for everyone paying less than the USA.


I don't know any better than Brooks knows what would happen if the US ramped up the minimum wage, but I only see evidence for it looking around the world. And only see theories that there will be massive unemployment and loss of economic growth from Brooks. contrary to the only available real world evidence.