[Starbuckibm]

We talked to Sportsbook.com folks again today and they are telling us that the small batch of initial wires they sent have been confirmed as received by players. We will be checking in daily for any changes but they maintain that those who have requested wires, or switched from check to wire, around 3/14 will see the money this week.

Nice to see you guys on them again today. Who did you actually talk to? Someone like a manager that knows what they are talking about or some CS who is reading a script? I mean how much longer are we supposed to give these guys before they start losing their credibility? If I had the time I would give them till the 6th of April and if I don't have my money I would be flying down there asking for a check in hand. If not then I would start walking out with some shit to cover what they owe. This is total bullshit. However I do appreciate you guys at SBR staying on top of them and pressuring them a little as well.

[ladodgers1980]

This is an email that I received on 3/15. That is also the day they put the money back into my acct and I had to rewithdraw the money. I wanted to receive mine by check instead of wire. It's been what, 8 business days now and no check. One thing I didn't catch is that it says "fedex: no". Although I did request fedex, i'm pretty sure of this.

Thank you for choosing us for your gaming entertainment. We hope you had great experience and that you'll visit us again soon.

This is only a RECEIPT to confirm your recent withdrawal request. A second email will be sent to you to confirm the funds have been sent to the address you've provided. Please keep in mind that your withdrawal request should be received within 7-10 business days.

The fees for your FIRST payment request each calendar month are as follows:

Withdrawal requests for $100.00 or less are sent via Mail or wire for $15.00
Withdrawal requests for $100.00 or more are sent via Mail or wire for FREE.
Withdrawal requests for $1,000.00 or more are sent via FedEx for FREE (If the address is a P.O Box or a Rural Route, they will be sent via Mail)
These are the fees for subsequent withdrawal requests each calendar month:
Via wire $15
Via Mail $15
Via Fedex $30
Keep in mind that all withdrawal requests for amounts over $5,000.00 are sent via FedEx for FREE.

Please note the withdrawal requests in excess of $9,999.00 are handled differently; You will receive separate instructions for withdrawing those amounts.

Your Withdrawal Receipt
Transaction #: XXXXX
Customer ID: XXXXX
First Name: XXXXX
Last Name: XXXXX
Street: XXXXX
City: XXXXX
State/Prov: XX
ZIP/Postal: XXXXX
Country: United States
Email: XXXXXXX
Withdrawal Amount: XXXXX
Withdraw YYYY-MM-DD: 2007-03-15
Withdrawal Type: Check
Fed EX: No

If you wish to change any aspect of this withdrawal, please contact us as soon as possible at cashier@efsplayerservices.com

Thanks again for choosing us and we'll have the funds sent to you right away.

[batottu]

Jive,
What route do you suggest? I posted earlier that a CS agent staight up told me that they had breached our confidentiality contract. Do we file it as that we were not provided the service that they said they would provide?

[jonshields]

ladodgers-

I think one of the issues that maybe confusing this whole thing is that when they give you that receipt, it means that they are "processing" the w/drawal in their w/drawal department. They don't send it out for "24-48 hrs" after you receive that email, which in reality is more like 24-595 hours. After that a non-fedex check would probably take like 2 1/2 weeks on their schedule. Also, they weren't able to process checks until yesterday. So my guess is your check is still "in processing" and will be sent at the end of this week. I maybe reading it wrong but this is the process I've figured out after many frustrating talks with the CS people. I'm wondering if this is leading people to think that their w/drawals are being sent out when in fact they are not being sent out but being sent to the internal department. The 7-10 day window doesn't start until it is confirmed by CS as being sent out to your bank or address.

p.s.- none of this is justified or good business, but it seems to be how they work.

This is an email that I received on 3/15. That is also the day they put the money back into my acct and I had to rewithdraw the money. I wanted to receive mine by check instead of wire. It's been what, 8 business days now and no check. One thing I didn't catch is that it says "fedex: no". Although I did request fedex, i'm pretty sure of this.

Thank you for choosing us for your gaming entertainment. We hope you had great experience and that you'll visit us again soon.

This is only a RECEIPT to confirm your recent withdrawal request. A second email will be sent to you to confirm the funds have been sent to the address you've provided. Please keep in mind that your withdrawal request should be received within 7-10 business days.

The fees for your FIRST payment request each calendar month are as follows:

Withdrawal requests for $100.00 or less are sent via Mail or wire for $15.00
Withdrawal requests for $100.00 or more are sent via Mail or wire for FREE.
Withdrawal requests for $1,000.00 or more are sent via FedEx for FREE (If the address is a P.O Box or a Rural Route, they will be sent via Mail)
These are the fees for subsequent withdrawal requests each calendar month:
Via wire $15
Via Mail $15
Via Fedex $30
Keep in mind that all withdrawal requests for amounts over $5,000.00 are sent via FedEx for FREE.

Please note the withdrawal requests in excess of $9,999.00 are handled differently; You will receive separate instructions for withdrawing those amounts.

Your Withdrawal Receipt
Transaction #: XXXXX
Customer ID: XXXXX
First Name: XXXXX
Last Name: XXXXX
Street: XXXXX
City: XXXXX
State/Prov: XX
ZIP/Postal: XXXXX
Country: United States
Email: XXXXXXX
Withdrawal Amount: XXXXX
Withdraw YYYY-MM-DD: 2007-03-15
Withdrawal Type: Check
Fed EX: No

If you wish to change any aspect of this withdrawal, please contact us as soon as possible at cashier@efsplayerservices.com

Thanks again for choosing us and we'll have the funds sent to you right away.

[TRUN]

today was 10 full 24 hour business days - they assured me day after day that no longer than 10 days at most - so i waited - and nothing - and not just nothing - but no answer and not even a timeframe on when an answer will be given to me - they simply would not say a timeframe - i was told when they have more info I would be the first to know - yes I am supposed to get a call tonight but I have doubts on that - nothing they have said to me was accurate - as far as getting a fed ex number on checks -- 9 times out of 10, the checks arrived before the fed-ex number or on the same day - they used to pay very quickly and i never had any problems regardless of the amount

[punchmaster]

I was reading this quote from another thread

"Made a withdrawal from Pinny on Feb 6th via Fed Ex Check. Waited until March 8th, then emailed them and they suggested I cancel my check and request a wire to speed it up after a month of waiting. So I did that and they said within a week I should recieve it. Yesterday, March 26th they email me back and say the wire got rejected from my bank. My bank knows nothing of the rejection. Today I'm still waiting for the funds to even hit my Pinny account again so I may request another check to wait another god knows how long...

Ridiculous... "

If the proficient Pinny is having trouble.....

[iq8w7ht]

Keep us posted TRUN, at least through tonight (if they call) or tomorrow (if the funds arrive). They have not been counting the 24 hours after they send the funds as a "business day." I really think that if some of us can prove we haven't been paid, and organize against these f-ckers, that we can use the threat of massive chargebacks as leverage to get our money. They have a lot to lose from not paying; their financial processors also process for like 20 other books/poker rooms and about half the sports market if I read this newspaper article right. Chargebacks could lead to investigations of them and I genuinely think they are scared of them. There's nothing else we can really scare them with except bad PR. Lets come up with a plan to take our best shot at getting our money. For instance:

Whenever day 10 passes for 5+ people we can substantiate, we go to the CS rep and the highest manager we can find with that list. We say unless an excellent explanation and money w/ tracking # is delivered to us w/in 24-48 hrs. we have 500 people that will charge back all of their sportsbook, players only, betus, etc. accounts at the same time (say noon on Tuesday). We will also go online and tell people in the cake poker rooms not to play w/ sportsbook- they dont ever pay- they lie- etc.... We will jam their CS people and not let up until we are paid. Basically we can use guerilla warfare and fight fire with fire because they can't really get to us. We DO have the ability to hurt their business dramatically, probably costing them more money than the money they are stealing from us. And that WILL make them scared.

I don't know about the specifics, and we can definitely figure out a plan, but is anyone else interested in this course of action? I think we just need the 5+ people and 10+ days and we have the high ground in the whole fight. Who knows if or how it'll work but it's better than bitching and giving up our money.

Jon, I like that idea. I'm in w/ my $7K, though I need to figure out exactly how to ********** by then.

[jonshields]

I am curious to see Jive's answer too. I think the best angle is to say they won't give you back your balance, thus effectively stealing from you. The confidentiality thing would not be a material breach in the contract, and it is an implied duty in U.S. law, not necessarily relevant to them under their law. If you can find a product that your C.C. will accept (other than gambling), then saying they confiscated your money should be easily good enough for a **********.

Jive,
What route do you suggest? I posted earlier that a CS agent staight up told me that they had breached our confidentiality contract. Do we file it as that we were not provided the service that they said they would provide?

[Jive_trky]

GUYS, I'M ALL FOR CHARGE BACKS...IF THAT MEANS BSing...I COULD CARE LESS..A LITTLE MISDEMEANOR HERE VS CAUSING THEM MASSIVE HEARTACHE WOULD BE WORTH IT. LIKE I SAID, I'VE RELEGATED MYSELF TO THE FACT THAT THE MONEY IS LOST..PERIOD!!! THEY WILL NOT BE PAYING ME AND BECAUSE OF THAT..I'M ALL ABOUT CAUSING HAVOC. THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO HOLD OUT..GO AHEAD..MY BET IS..YOU WON'T GET IT..AT LEAST NOT IN A MONTH'S TIME FROM TODAY.

[Starbuckibm]

All you have to do is tell them the "charge was not authorized" and then fill out the rest of the information. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. I have done this before and will probably have to do it again if Sportsbook.com doesn't cough up my money soon.

[marc]

Here is what bothers me. I asked a clerk how long it will take to recieve a check, and I was told, 5-7 days. Bill asks the same question, and they tell him 15 days. So they are knowingly lying to us, and giving us overly optimistic timelines

[Jive_trky]

do we even have to say not authorized??...was just looking researching, don't now how legit this is..but..
https://direct.53.com/help/53direct/...on%20Codes.htm

**** ********** REASON CODE 30

Description
Media Required

CB – Services/Merchandise Not Rec’d

Cardholder did not receive, due to merchant’s unwillingness or inability:
- Services
- Shipped merchandise
- Merchandise delivered at the agreed-upon location or by the agreed-upon date
- Airline or passenger rail tickets order via Mail/Phone or on-line



ABOUT THIS DOCUMENT

A majority of this information has been taken from the Visa© "**** U.S.A INC. BY-LAWS OPERATING REGULATIONS"

For more information on chargebacks, please call your FTPS support representative.

***************

Anyone care to elaborate????

[kamo]

Been following this thread since the beginning. I initially tried to withdraw on Feb 22nd & then they redeposited on Mar 15th. I withdrew again via check. Today is day 8. They said 7 - 10 days. I spoke to cs on live chat yesterday & they promised me all checks will be sent out this week....bull shit!!

I am absolutely fed up with their lies & deceit. I'm down for the **********. I like the E-wallets idea, I think that is a great excuse. Lets do this & really f**k them over

[Jive_trky]

I'm sure we have more than a dozen people, between wire transfer and checks, that haven't received the service they paid for..ie..getting their money back..especially in the "guaranteed" time that many of us have been told by reps..for sure..we have a copy of tom jacobs saying that to trun. Like i said folks, why wait, I plan to do it..but crap..with just one person..am I even gonna make a dent??....anyone ???

[jonshields]

to Jive and everyone else that wants to charge back now-

Why not get together and do something like my plan above where we threaten them and then all charge back? If you or a few people charge back then they will probably get notice of this in a few months, and that is if it is even successful. If we threaten that 500 people are prepared to charge back, or inflate the number even more, that will scare them. It may scare them into giving us our money, it may not. Going onto their poker rooms might cause Cake to cut off affiliation with them, which will cost them millions while they try to find a new room. If you want to GET THEM BACK, lets do it proactively. If you want them to suffer, lets make them KNOW THEY ARE SUFFERING. Charging back ************ now, by yourself, is just an emotional response that they won't even feel. Lets all do it at once, with their knowledge.

Anyone that says this is a lost cause and we have nothing to lose, why not get together and do this? You're going to charge back either way, and this way we're giving them the collective finger. Isn't that what the point is for many of you anyways?
And, as a bonus, we may force them to pay us.

I'm sure we have more than a dozen people, between wire transfer and checks, that haven't received the service they paid for..ie..getting their money back..especially in the "guaranteed" time that many of us have been told by reps..for sure..we have a copy of tom jacobs saying that to trun. Like i said folks, why wait, I plan to do it..but crap..with just one person..am I even gonna make a dent??....anyone ???

[Bill Dozer]

Nice to see you guys on them again today. Who did you actually talk to? Someone like a manager that knows what they are talking about or some CS who is reading a script? I mean how much longer are we supposed to give these guys before they start losing their credibility? If I had the time I would give them till the 6th of April and if I don't have my money I would be flying down there asking for a check in hand. If not then I would start walking out with some shit to cover what they owe. This is total bullshit. However I do appreciate you guys at SBR staying on top of them and pressuring them a little as well.

Hi Starbuck,

Don't mistake the way we are reading this specific situation with giving them credibility. Sportsbook.com Group has cheated players on an individual level many times over. We met with them last year with 4 pages of complaints, some of which they corrected but there have been more since. One player is owed $24,000 from the "virtual horse racing casino glitch" they had.

There are different managers as well as other sources leading us to believe that there is activity in the accounting department.

Recent history has proven that they can lose their resources at any time. If they can get off the ground again they should keep acquiring processors. Some books have 4 or 5 paper check processors and aren't half as big as Sportsbook.com which had two before losing them in the same week.

[Jive_trky]

look, not sure about any of this, but just read up on some "merchants" web blog concerning charge backs. It would seem, they aren't too fond of it, i know our situation is different in the sense that we're not really purchasing anything..however..the consensus from the merchants is that once chargebacks go through..their doesn't seem to be too much they can do. Don't know the situation with offshore folks but, darn, it sure does sound sweet..how the merchants are at the will of the buyer. C'mon guys, why the hell not, u know you probably won't get what is legally and rightfully yours....

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum22/4832.htm

[Starbuckibm]

Hi Starbuck,

Don't mistake the way we are reading this specific situation with giving them credibility. Sportsbook.com Group has cheated players on an individual level many times over. We met with them last year with 4 pages of complaints, some of which they corrected but there have been more since. One player is owed $24,000 from the "virtual horse racing casino glitch" they had.

There are different managers as well as other sources leading us to believe that there is activity in the accounting department.

Recent history has proven that they can lose their resources at any time. If they can get off the ground again they should keep acquiring processors. Some books have 4 or 5 paper check processors and aren't half as big as Sportsbook.com which had two before losing them in the same week.

Thanks for your response and I do appreciate your time. From your personal experience with them and what you have heard from talking to them what do you think the odds are we will actually see our money? I mean is it really they have intentions of paying us, but just simply can't right now because of processor issues or what? I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but at least be honest with the players. I am sure guys would rather be told "hey your going to get your money, but it will take a month" rather than be lied to all the time saying we will get it in 7-10 business days. Just looking for your insight on what you think is going to happen. After all you have more experience than a lot of us here when dealing with a situation like this. Thank you again and look forward to your reply when you have time.

[ModernManshustle]

I was reading this quote from another thread

"Made a withdrawal from Pinny on Feb 6th via Fed Ex Check. Waited until March 8th, then emailed them and they suggested I cancel my check and request a wire to speed it up after a month of waiting. So I did that and they said within a week I should recieve it. Yesterday, March 26th they email me back and say the wire got rejected from my bank. My bank knows nothing of the rejection. Today I'm still waiting for the funds to even hit my Pinny account again so I may request another check to wait another god knows how long...

Ridiculous... "

If the proficient Pinny is having trouble.....

this is my point you think sportsbook is unique in this but it seems everybook and pokersite is dealing with this, although they have been lying aplenty so i'm not excusing that

[jonshields]

Bill-

If anyone can answer this you can. The shadiest part of all of this for me is the fact they can't verify anything. They can't trace the wire for you, they can't give me the name of the bank wiring it to me (they say it "could be one of several in the Caribbean), they can't give me the name of the bank the checks will be written on. They can't even give me a single one of these banks it might be. I keep asking and they keep avoiding. Is this common for sportsbooks to hide this information? I don't see why they would. Would it be possible to find out what banks they are working with, and call them to confirm (if not accounts, at least that they are actively processing wires for sportsbook). This seems like an easy way to verify what is going on.



jon

[Jive_trky]

At This Point Jon, I'm Game!!! Why Just Threaten, Threaten And Follow Through, Sure, It May Just Be A Handfull But What The Heck..the Threat Has To Be Followed Through, However Little It May Be. We Just Need To Get A Good Group Together So That It Won't Just Be One Or Two People, Definitely If It's Just One Or Two..we Won't Get Anywhere!!!

[marc]

I had requested 4 wires and 2 checks back on the 15th. I specifically requested the checks because i was nervous that the wires wouldn't go through. Apparently Jazette decided to cancel my check requests and send out all the funds by wire. The money was supposedly sent on the 19th.

At this point I need the money to pay my cc bills for all the deposits I made to Jazette in february. If others decide to go the ********** route, I'm more tahn happy to join the party.

[Starbuckibm]

Bill-

If anyone can answer this you can. The shadiest part of all of this for me is the fact they can't verify anything. They can't trace the wire for you, they can't give me the name of the bank wiring it to me (they say it "could be one of several in the Caribbean), they can't give me the name of the bank the checks will be written on. They can't even give me a single one of these banks it might be. I keep asking and they keep avoiding. Is this common for sportsbooks to hide this information? I don't see why they would. Would it be possible to find out what banks they are working with, and call them to confirm (if not accounts, at least that they are actively processing wires for sportsbook). This seems like an easy way to verify what is going on.



jon

They don't give out this information to protect the bank. Just think what would happen if they gave out the banks name and number. You know well all of us here would be calling them every hour asking for the status of our withdraw. Then while the phones are tied up the withdraws get stalled. It is quite common the books do not give out the banks information. Almost every book does this.

However as for a tracking number for fedex with a check that can be requested and should be given to you almost every time if you option to have a check fedex to you. With bank wires its a little different. You will be asking them for the control number. In order to get this number they Sportsbook.com has to call the bank and ask them for the control number. The bank can take days to get this info back to them. That's why almost every single time you see the funds before they ever get the request back on the control number. If ever for any reason a wire was lost or went to the wrong account the control number tells the bank where exactly it went so it can be located for mistakes such as going into the wrong account. It's a way to trace the money on where it came from and where it went to.

[Bill Dozer]

Thanks for your response and I do appreciate your time. From your personal experience with them and what you have heard from talking to them what do you think the odds are we will actually see our money? I mean is it really they have intentions of paying us, but just simply can't right now because of processor issues or what? I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but at least be honest with the players. I am sure guys would rather be told "hey your going to get your money, but it will take a month" rather than be lied to all the time saying we will get it in 7-10 business days. Just looking for your insight on what you think is going to happen. After all you have more experience than a lot of us here when dealing with a situation like this. Thank you again and look forward to your reply when you have time.

I think Sportsbook.com has had the easiest ride of any offshore books and have always had everything handed to them because of who they are. They haven't had to worry about much including mishaps and individual players. Are they trying to pay, at least at this time? Yes. Is it their own fault they are where they are? Yes. Ignorance is not an excuse.

You are welcome Starbuck. That's why we are here. We are rooting for everyone in this thread and the thousands of others.

[jonshields]

Yeah I think we just need a list of five "representatives" and we can claim whatever we want. Hell, they've made stuff up for a month why can't we. As far as they're concerned, we can make them think we have 1200 chargebacks, (say we've networked on bodog and cake's poker rooms or whatever they can't trace, as well as forums) waiting to be done 120 days back. I don't mind going on their poker rooms for a few hours to spread the word. I have $12K locked up there it's worth it for me. Basically just scare them. If no one gets their money by Monday, I say we have the moral high ground on this.

In the meantime, lets find the best way to do chargebacks if we have to, and come up with a common explanation so that **** isn't tipped off and starts an investigation. It's complicated b/c I imagine there will be enough chargebacks throughout the world off sportsbook.com and affiliates that **** will notice and not like what is going on.

I think we should all come up with a plan together, set up a date to execute it, and just let everything go until then- leave it in sportsbooks hands. Either they pay us and it's all good or they try to stiff us and we go to war with whatever we got.

jon

At This Point Jon, I'm Game!!! Why Just Threaten, Threaten And Follow Through, Sure, It May Just Be A Handfull But What The Heck..the Threat Has To Be Followed Through, However Little It May Be. We Just Need To Get A Good Group Together So That It Won't Just Be One Or Two People, Definitely If It's Just One Or Two..we Won't Get Anywhere!!!

[kamo]

Trun,

How about you? I see you deleted your posts from earlier about cc **********...What is your thought about this method now? Any opinions?

[Jive_trky]

welp, i used my bank/check card, don't know how it will go but, I'll definitely give them a call tonight to see about what i can do. If they say ok..as far as chageback is concerned..I'll have no hesitation. Guess it just depends on the person i speak to on the other end, how they handle it..if they're gonna say..they don't care what i do..just fill out the paper work.then daggum it!! i will. It all just depends on that. however if whoever starts hassling me and tells me i really can't..then oh well..i'm fudged..lol. regardless, i'm calling them up when i leave work. Not holding my breath..but..who knows...

[jonshields]

Hey Jive-

I have a **** check card too, and so I'm wondering the same thing. If you're gonna call, what might be useful is to call anonymously and give them the true situation. The rep maybe sympathetic to your situation but at least will give you some honest answers as to what to expect. Tell them it's an offshore sportsbook and they are stealing your money. Then we will know where we stand on their ********** policy with regards to gambling.

jon

welp, i used my bank/check card, don't know how it will go but, I'll definitely give them a call tonight to see about what i can do. If they say ok..as far as chageback is concerned..I'll have no hesitation. Guess it just depends on the person i speak to on the other end, how they handle it..if they're gonna say..they don't care what i do..just fill out the paper work.then daggum it!! i will. It all just depends on that. however if whoever starts hassling me and tells me i really can't..then oh well..i'm fudged..lol. regardless, i'm calling them up when i leave work. Not holding my breath..but..who knows...

[marc]

for those of you contemplating a **********, what is the driving force. Isit revenge, or is because you relly don't think they will pay.

I know for me, I've never liked the way they've treated me, or their cusomters in general. They never let you speak to anyone in a position of authority. And management (whom you could never speak to) alwasy takes the position that their decision is final. So for once, I would like to be the one in the position of power. I would like to be the one to say screw you, I can do watever I want

[kamo]

for those of you contemplating a **********, what is the driving force. Isit revenge, or is because you relly don't think they will pay.

I know for me, I've never liked the way they've treated me, or their cusomters in general. They never let you speak to anyone in a position of authority. And management (whom you could never speak to) alwasy takes the position that their decision is final. So for once, I would like to be the one in the position of power. I would like to be the one to say screw you, I can do watever I want

For me, it's the lies they have continually told over the last 33 days. Like you said, I want to say screw you to them, before they can screw me over totally. I'm to the point where, I am really not sure we are gonna get paid. I have been very patient with them....and am only posting my feelings now because I a fed up. Up until yesterday, I thought we were gonna get paid, but now I think we are screwed.

If we can threaten them & get our $$$, I'm all for it. But we will have to speak to someone that has some pull, to get our goals accomplished

[ModernManshustle]

I really hope Trun gets his call and an explanation tonight, plz let us know!

[Jive_trky]

Alright Boys...as We Speak, I Have One Of My Bank Reps On The Line Doing The Dispute!!! Reason....no Providing Service ..ie..not Paying Back..my Bank Stated They Could Only Go Back 30 Days Though..so..here We Go..keeping My Fingers Crossed Fellas....i Honestly Aint Hold'n Ma Breath..but..fk It..i'm Tired Of Talking..the Good News Though..the Bank Is Going Through With My Dispute!!!!..whoo Hoo..regardless What Happens..at Least Someone There's Gonna Have Some Real Explaining To Do..if Not....dare I Say I Get My Money Back???..lol..we'll See Guys..

[kamo]

Oh, and another thing....I hope everyone that used a credit card with this book, make sure to get a new card & new ## from your cc company. Cancel out any cards you used with the book....you never know.

[kamo]

Alright Boys...as We Speak, I Have One Of My Bank Reps On The Line Doing The Dispute!!! Reason....no Providing Service ..ie..not Paying Back..my Bank Stated They Could Only Go Back 30 Days Though..so..here We Go..keeping My Fingers Crossed Fellas....i Honestly Aint Hold'n Ma Breath..but..fk It..i'm Tired Of Talking..the Good News Though..the Bank Is Going Through With My Dispute!!!!..whoo Hoo..regardless What Happens..at Least Someone There's Gonna Have Some Real Explaining To Do..if Not....dare I Say I Get My Money Back???..lol..we'll See Guys..

shit, i hope my card isn't the same w/ the 30 days. I have not made a deposit, since before my initial withdrawal on feb 22. I'm gonna have to verify how far back I can go with my CC company.

Good luck Jive

[Jive_trky]

Marc,

To Answer Your Question...whatever I Can Get Out Of It..money/justice..or Just Be Pain In The Ass..here's The Thing Though, If All Goes Well, My Bank Will Take That Money Back..i Don't Foresee Some Cr Person Being On The Line Anymore...its Gonna Be Someone Who Actually Can Do Something.... He/she Can't Just Post Some Lame Comments Over And Over Cause, Hopefully, They'll Be The One In The Red And Doing Everything Possible To Get Their Money Back.....like I Said Though..i'm Not Hopefull Really...just Want To Follow Through And Do Something..anything