[ace7550]

5-10 million. 60 players. And MB didn't notice
This thread just keeps getting better.

[SportsBettor74]

I'm not going to admit that I was playing an +EV game

Yes, that is the only game I am aware of that was +EV

[RAIDER1223]

This is just pathetic.

I know you have been stalking me on this forum to deduce that I am from the EU and your ridiculous PM to me also indicated your have been stalking me.

Your unwelcome, stalking PM to me included this: "You're from the EU and it just exemplifies why most of the world think very lowly of many in the EU."

There is something seriously wrong with you. I would be almost certain that you have had issues with stalking people in your present and past.

Hey? Please do me a favor? Just leave me alone man. We are trying to get our money back. That's all. Please move on from antagonizing me. Thanks.

[RAIDER1223]

Old. Not funny. Please leave me alone. Thanks.

[Ewan101]

Hey? Please do me a favor? Just leave me alone man. We are trying to get our money back. That's all. Please move on from antagonizing me. Thanks.

Sure - will you agree that you stalked me and will you agree to stop stalking me? (That includes never sending me your stalking PMs again).

[RAIDER1223]

Sure - will you agree that you stalked me and will you agree to stop stalking me? (That includes never sending me your stalking PMs again).

Dude? Stop. I sent you one PM. One. Two weeks ago. I'm not stalking you. Stop.

[Ewan101]

Dude? Stop. I sent you one PM. One. Two weeks ago. I'm not stalking you. Stop.

So why did you mention that I am from the EU in your stalking posts here and in your stalking PM to me? How did you know I was from the EU?

You did not send one PM. You sent a PM to all on your stalking list. That is at least 6 PMs you sent- maybe more.

I think you ought to apologise here publically to all on your unintelligent bum / moron stalking list for sending those PMs.

[milwaukee mike]

ewe are from the eu... eww

[RAIDER1223]

So why did you mention that I am from the EU in your stalking posts here and in your stalking PM to me? How did you know I was from the EU?

You did not send one PM. You sent a PM to all on your stalking list. That is at least 6 PMs you sent- maybe more.

I think you ought to apologise here publically to all on your unintelligent bum / moron stalking list for sending those PMs.

Please read my note. I sent YOU one PM. I read another post that you commented on that stated that you are from the EU. That's all. A big nothing burger.

[Ewan101]

So you "look up" people who comment unfavourably against you?

That is stalking.

Now you have been called out you want to be quiet. Well then just do us all a favour and shut up.

[RAIDER1223]

So you "look up" people who comment unfavourably against you?
That is stalking.
Now you have been called out you want to be quiet. Well then just do us all a favour and shut up.

You know what's funny? You and I will probably end-up being very friendly with one another in the end.

[Ewan101]

You know what's funny? You and I will probably end-up being very friendly with one another in the end.

I'm not going to admit that I was playing an +EV game

Yes, that is the only game I am aware of that was +EV

You are not honest. So unlikely we will be friendly.

[RAIDER1223]

You are not honest. So unlikely we will be friendly.

I'm confident we will be. Have an open mind. I'm not a bad guy. Give it a chance. I did not know that game was an +EV game. You have to understand that I won and lost big on that game, as I did on the others. Spencer and Rickron did as well. Won and lost big. How would I even know it was an +EV game when you win big some times and lose big other times? The +EV thing seems to have only been revealed recently as this situation was being looked into deeper over the past 2-3 months. Truth.

[Ewan101]

I'm confident we will be. Have an open mind. I'm not a bad guy. Give it a chance. I did not know that game was an +EV game. You have to understand that I won and lost big on that game, as I did on the others. Spencer and Rickron did as well. Won and lost big. How would I even know it was an +EV game when you win big some times and lose big other times? The +EV thing seems to have only been revealed recently as this situation was being looked into deeper over the past 2-3 months. Truth.

You're an interesting case "Raider" - I'll give you that.

I have cross-checked with at least one other user here - and what you did was send "copy and paste" PMs out - and you modified my PM to include extra insults associated with the EU.

Your PMs included the following:

"This is about you being a total jerkoff"

"Bottom line is this. You're a total jerk and an asshole."

"You and about 6 others owe me a sincere apology but you want give one"

"You're from the EU and it just exemplifies why most of the world think very lowly of many in the EU."

"...to put punks like yourself in your place..."

Now understand that from a low calibre person such as yourself I treat this kind of PM with the amusement / derision that it deserves.

But this is a curious case because it is almost like you have some kind of strange multiple personality (stalking) disorder - you think we can be friendly and you ask to be left alone - but you have forgotten that you deliberately and purposefully sent out at least 6 x PMs with that strange and bizarre content.

Recall also your multiple posts here with the most strange and bizarre insults to various posters who vaguely disagreed with you (including Optional). It is at best "unbalanced" and at worst clinical.

It is strange to me and part of me does actually worry about you. But then - you have been dishonest and very insulting so actually I don't care.

[RAIDER1223]

You're an interesting case "Raider" - I'll give you that.

I have cross-checked with at least one other user here - and what you did was send "copy and paste" PMs out - and you modified my PM to include extra insults associated with the EU.

Your PMs included the following:

"This is about you being a total jerkoff"

"Bottom line is this. You're a total jerk and an asshole."

"You and about 6 others owe me a sincere apology but you want give one"

"You're from the EU and it just exemplifies why most of the world think very lowly of many in the EU."

"...to put punks like yourself in your place..."

Now understand that from a low calibre person such as yourself I treat this kind of PM with the amusement / derision that it deserves.

But this is a curious case because it is almost like you have some kind of strange multiple personality (stalking) disorder - you think we can be friendly and you ask to be left alone - but you have forgotten that you deliberately and purposefully sent out at least 6 x PMs with that strange and bizarre content.
Recall also your multiple posts here with the most strange and bizarre insults to various posters who vaguely disagreed with you (including Optional). It is at best "unbalanced" and at worst clinical.
It is strange to me and part of me does actually worry about you. But then - you have been dishonest and very insulting so actually I don't care.

Just offering a truce and be friendly with one another. You've been pretty mean to me as well. It's cool. Just offering a truce here.

[Spencerho]

Thanks for the info Optional! Would you be able to provide any updates in regards to how the case is being pursued currently?

If it was a "glitch" or software error, the terms would cover the book not paying.

But the software maker says there was no glitch or software error and they also have told one player that "the players did nothing wrong".


If it's a setting the operator made, it's far more questionable if the terms cover it.

[HedgeHog]

So you "look up" people who comment unfavourably against you?

That is stalking.

Now you have been called out you want to be quiet. Well then just do us all a favour and shut up.

I agree. The OP hurts his case and others every time he posts. If I were Spencer, I'd send the OP a PM to STFU for the sake of all concerned. There about 60 people now with a case against MB, and I (along with some others) think the issue may have merit. Unfortunately, the OP thinks he's the self chosen spokesperson for everybody. And this has proven to be a disaster.

[RAIDER1223]

I agree. The OP hurts his case and others every time he posts. If I were Spencer, I'd send the OP a PM to STFU for the sake of all concerned. There about 60 people now with a case against MB, and I (along with some others) think the issue may have merit. Unfortunately, the OP thinks he's the self chosen spokesperson for everybody. And this has proven to be a disaster.

Hey man. I'm trying to "hear" what you are saying, but please remember something here. I was the one whom brought this whole situation to light by originally posting it. Equally, it has been yourself and a few others herein that have contributed to the "disaster" that you claim it is. This post is the top-rated post in this category and has been since its inception.

Show a little respect here bud and stop trying to be a "big shot". It's a forum board, not a contest of "Swinging Richards" I've been on SBR for many years like yourself. Regardless of what you think of me and how you feel about my posts and personality, if I don't make the initial post, then none of this even comes out. It will probably do a lot of good for many people when all is said and done.

At least respect that part. It took balls to post this, and with it comes the territory for getting lasered in the process because it is a sensitive topic for pretty much all of us. I knew this would probably happen, so that is the sacrifice I was willing to make in doing so.

Spencer and I communicate daily. I'll let him speak for himself.

In the end, I could have elected to be warm and fuzzy at all times, and sit here only to make friends on a social media platform. Rather, I chose to try and get money back, seek help from SBR/others along the way, to help others whom may have been affected by this as well, and to warn others from potentially getting hurt by MYB and Betsoft.

Peace.

[HedgeHog]

Everyone knows that the casino game in question was +EV, even if the OP won't admit it--why else would 60 players have huge balances at MB? But the fact that a player has a +EV advantage against a Book does not give the book the right to cancel winnings --unless the advantage was so huge that it amounts to the equivalent of a "bad line". That does not appear to be the case here. The players' edge has been estimated at +106 on an even money event. No decent Book would cancel that action.

[HedgeHog]

Hey man. I'm trying to "hear" what you are saying, but please remember something here. I was the one whom brought this whole situation to light by originally posting it. Equally, it has been yourself and a few others herein that have contributed to the "disaster" that you claim it is. This post is the top-rated post in this category and has been since its inception.

Show a little respect here bud and stop trying to be a "big shot". It's a forum board, not a contest of "Swinging Richards" I've been on SBR for many years like yourself. Regardless of what you think of me and how you feel about my posts and personality, if I don't make the initial post, then none of this even comes out. It will probably do a lot of good for many people when all is said and done.

At least respect that part. It took balls to post this, and with it comes the territory for getting lasered in the process because it is a sensitive topic for pretty much all of us. I knew this would probably happen, so that is the sacrifice I was willing to make in doing so.

Spencer and I communicate daily. I'll let him speak for himself.

In the end, I could have elected to be warm and fuzzy at all times, and sit here only to make friends on a social media platform. Rather, I chose to try and get money back, seek help from SBR/others along the way, to help others whom may have been affected by this as well, and to warn others from potentially getting hurt by MYB and Betsoft.

Peace.

How about you stop sending me PMs too prick. I don't need a thank you when I post something you see as favorable to your case. Likewise, other members have received nasty PMs for disagreeing with you. You're a manipulative ass, and I understand why most everyone wants to see you stiffed. If anyone has tried to control the narrative of this thread it's YOU. I'll continue to post for the support of the others that are in the same situation as you, like Spencer. Overall this case has merit IMO, but you are determined to screw it up. I echo the sentiment of others, STFU and let the process play out. If they win, you'll win too despite your massive failed efforts in this thread.

[Optional]

What's new about their payout limits? It's $5k now for sportsbook and has been for as long as I can remember. I know they're saying $2k in this thread, but my understanding is that's only for casino-generated winnings. Was the casino payout limit much higher than $2k prior to recently? I honestly have no idea.

Ah thanks. I was talking about the 2k/week mentioned here. First time I had heard of it.

[DontTailMe]

Hey man. I'm trying to "hear" what you are saying, but please remember something here. I was the one whom brought this whole situation to light by originally posting it. Equally, it has been yourself and a few others herein that have contributed to the "disaster" that you claim it is. This post is the top-rated post in this category and has been since its inception.

Show a little respect here bud and stop trying to be a "big shot". It's a forum board, not a contest of "Swinging Richards" I've been on SBR for many years like yourself. Regardless of what you think of me and how you feel about my posts and personality, if I don't make the initial post, then none of this even comes out. It will probably do a lot of good for many people when all is said and done.

At least respect that part. It took balls to post this, and with it comes the territory for getting lasered in the process because it is a sensitive topic for pretty much all of us. I knew this would probably happen, so that is the sacrifice I was willing to make in doing so.

Spencer and I communicate daily. I'll let him speak for himself.

In the end, I could have elected to be warm and fuzzy at all times, and sit here only to make friends on a social media platform. Rather, I chose to try and get money back, seek help from SBR/others along the way, to help others whom may have been affected by this as well, and to warn others from potentially getting hurt by MYB and Betsoft.

Peace.

Dude. You'll probably take this as me being a jerkface again, but I'm seriously trying to help you right now...

Just. Stop. Posting.

For real. Once again, you're flaming someone here (HedgeHog) who has mostly been supportive of your case up to now, and based on his last post, it appears you've completely lost him. You cannot take even the slightest bit of criticism or disagreement from anyone, and you go over the top in your response every time. Also, if you don't post, then people can't argue with you. You really should have listened to yourself about a dozen pages ago or so when you said that you were going to remain quiet. People are always going to post things that you don't like or don't agree with. It's okay. Not every post needs to be responded to. And it would even be fine to respond if you could do so in a cordial manner. But you keep blowing yourself up over it and have lost everyone's support in the process. Stop, for the good of your own monetary case...and your sanity.

[Doug tushyterror]

Did he seriously write "top-rated post"? Wow..to be so delusional & narcissistic to actually equate page views to it being an Amazon 5 star review.

[DontTailMe]

Did he seriously write "top-rated post"? Wow..to be so delusional & narcissistic to actually equate page views to it being an Amazon 5 star review.

Yes, the page views are clearly due to the controversy and spitfire in this case.

[semibluff]

Everyone knows that the casino game in question was +EV, even if the OP won't admit it--why else would 60 players have huge balances at MB? But the fact that a player has a +EV advantage against a Book does not give the book the right to cancel winnings --unless the advantage was so huge that it amounts to the equivalent of a "bad line". That does not appear to be the case here. The players' edge has been estimated at +106 on an even money event. No decent Book would cancel that action.

I wasn't estimating the value at +106. If the value was +106 then only a few players would spot it and hammer it relentlessly. That there are now 60(ish) known cases involving $5-10M would indicate that the edge was much bigger, (maybe in the +115 to +120 range), and was thus more obvious. Presumably if the edge was +140, (or more), then hundreds of players would be making money from it and mybookie would have acted much sooner. Either way it would be difficult to get an accurate figure because I doubt any player recorded their stakes and returns data, and if they did they would be unwilling, (and unwise), to post how big the edge was.

Then again, what would I know. The biggest angle-shoot in gaming history that I know of happened right under my nose and I didn't know who and how much was involved until it was all over. Maybe this edge was +200 and mybookie really were asleep at the wheel.

[DontTailMe]

I wasn't estimating the value at +106. If the value was +106 then only a few players would spot it and hammer it relentlessly. That there are now 60(ish) known cases involving $5-10M would indicate that the edge was much bigger, (maybe in the +115 to +120 range), and was thus more obvious. Presumably if the edge was +140, (or more), then hundreds of players would be making money from it and mybookie would have acted much sooner. Either way it would be difficult to get an accurate figure because I doubt any player recorded their stakes and returns data, and if they did they would be unwilling, (and unwise), to post how big the edge was.

Then again, what would I know. The biggest angle-shoot in gaming history that I know of happened right under my nose and I didn't know who and how much was involved until it was all over. Maybe this edge was +200 and mybookie really were asleep at the wheel.

I think you're not accounting for the fact that word travels. All it would take is a few players to notice and then that number would soon grow. Remember, we have at least one example here of a player who admitted they are friends with like 2 other affected players. That's obviously not a coincidence.

[milwaukee mike]

I think you're not accounting for the fact that word travels. All it would take is a few players to notice and then that number would soon grow. Remember, we have at least one example here of a player who admitted they are friends with like 2 other affected players. That's obviously not a coincidence.

nobody as knowledgeable as raider would just deposit 2k into mybookie to play slot games, and run it up to 200k over months and months of grinding, without knowing that he was playing a +ev game

he's hiding something, everyone knows that... the only question is if he's hiding the fact that he somehow found it on his own (unlikely), or was told about it by another player (likely)

not sure any of that matters as to whether or not the players get paid, but it's insulting to everyone's intelligence that he continues to play the "aw shucks i'm just a dumb slot player that got lucky"

[HedgeHog]

I wasn't estimating the value at +106. If the value was +106 then only a few players would spot it and hammer it relentlessly. That there are now 60(ish) known cases involving $5-10M would indicate that the edge was much bigger, (maybe in the +115 to +120 range), and was thus more obvious. Presumably if the edge was +140, (or more), then hundreds of players would be making money from it and mybookie would have acted much sooner. Either way it would be difficult to get an accurate figure because I doubt any player recorded their stakes and returns data, and if they did they would be unwilling, (and unwise), to post how big the edge was.

Then again, what would I know. The biggest angle-shoot in gaming history that I know of happened right under my nose and I didn't know who and how much was involved until it was all over. Maybe this edge was +200 and mybookie really were asleep at the wheel.

I guess we'll never know the exact edge these players had. However, I doubt it was extremely high--despite the growing number of players with large balances. I base this on the long period of time it took to accumulate these winnings. The OP took the better part of a year to reach 200k, playing the game for several hours daily. And I believe Spencer explained that he had a significant number of losing sessions mixed in with his winning ones. I'm not sure how long it took him to accumulate his winnings, but I suspect it was several months as well. To me this all suggests a game with a low to moderate edge that required an enormous amount of action to grind out a profit.

[Crusherrr]

I guess we'll never know the exact edge these players had. However, I doubt it was extremely high--despite the growing number of players with large balances. I base this on the long period of time it took to accumulate these winnings. The OP took the better part of a year to reach 200k, playing the game for several hours daily. And I believe Spencer explained that he had a significant number of losing sessions mixed in with his winning ones. I'm not sure how long it took him to accumulate his winnings, but I suspect it was several months as well. To me this all suggests a game with a low to moderate edge that required an enormous amount of action to grind out a profit.

But they also were betting small. $1-$2 spins according to them. Even if the RTP was 105% for instance that's only 5-10c per spin. It could end up only being something that they had a $150-$200/hr edge in terms of EV. 1000 hours is $150,000-$200,000 which is around what many of these people ended up winning.

[Ewan101]

I guess we'll never know the exact edge these players had. However, I doubt it was extremely high--despite the growing number of players with large balances. I base this on the long period of time it took to accumulate these winnings. The OP took the better part of a year to reach 200k, playing the game for several hours daily. And I believe Spencer explained that he had a significant number of losing sessions mixed in with his winning ones. I'm not sure how long it took him to accumulate his winnings, but I suspect it was several months as well. To me this all suggests a game with a low to moderate edge that required an enormous amount of action to grind out a profit.

Let's see if we can make an estimate of the EV+ level here and maybe get some of the maths wizards here to help.

The OP actually made approx 300K from the "Take The" Slots (84K withdrawn +210K in account = 300K) (2K initial deposit claimed = negligible amount to add to total for the purposes of this calculation).

He claims to have played for 3 hours per day for 10 months.

10 months = 30 x 10 = 300 days x 3 hours = 900 hours.

300k / 900 hours = $333 USD per hour.

However we know that he invested some of those hours in playing other NON-EV+ slots in an attempt to disguise his exploit.

So let's assume he played on non-EV+ slots for half that time and let's assume he broke even on the other slots (96% RTP is basically break even for the purposes of these calcs).

So we have 300K in 450 hours = 660 approx per hour.

$660 USD per hour = about $10 or $11 per minute.

The dude claims his stake was between $2 and $5.

How many spins per minute can you make? Maybe 10?

So in 10 spins he doubles /triples his stake (based on average bet size). Let's call it 2.5x his stake for every 10 spins. So in one spin he makes 25% of his stake = odds of 2.25 (+125).

The issue is that the OP is well documented in this thread to be untrustworthy and untruthful so taking his claims of time invested (months and hours) and stake played may not be accurate.

Any maths guys here want to improve on the calcs above? I am very happy to be corrected. The base facts we know are:

- 300k Profit
- 10 months
- 3 hours per day average
- Stake size = $2 - $5
- No jackpots
- Some play on 96% RTP slots to disguise exploit

[DontTailMe]

Let's see if we can make an estimate of the EV+ level here and maybe get some of the maths wizards here to help.

The OP actually made approx 300K from the "Take The" Slots (84K withdrawn +210K in account = 300K) (2K initial deposit claimed = negligible amount to add to total for the purposes of this calculation).

He claims to have played for 3 hours per day for 10 months.

10 months = 30 x 10 = 300 days x 3 hours = 900 hours.

300k / 900 hours = $333 USD per hour.

However we know that he invested some of those hours in playing other NON-EV+ slots in an attempt to disguise his exploit.

So let's assume he played on non-EV+ slots for half that time and let's assume he broke even on the other slots (96% RTP is basically break even for the purposes of these calcs).

So we have 300K in 450 hours = 660 approx per hour.

$660 USD per hour = about $10 or $11 per minute.

The dude claims his stake was between $2 and $5.

How many spins per minute can you make? Maybe 10?

So in 10 spins he doubles /triples his stake (based on average bet size). Let's call in 2.5x his stake for every 10 spins. So in one spin he makes 25% of his stake = odds of 2.25 (+125).

The issue is that the OP is well documented in this thread to be untrustworthy and untruthful so taking his claims of time invested (months and hours) and stake played may not be accurate.

Any maths guys here want to improve on the calcs above? I am very happy to be corrected. The base facts we know are:

- 300k Profit
- 10 months
- 3 hours per day average
- Stake size = $2 - $5
- No jackpots
- Some play on 96% RTP slots to disguise exploit

Far too many assumptions to come up with any prediction which would be of interest. The error bars would be humongous.

[Ewan101]

Far too many assumptions to come up with any prediction which would be of interest.

I tend to agree.

But We do have some non-assumptive facts here.

He made $300,000 in ten months with a negligible initial stake of $2K.

I do think we can take his stake size of $2 - $5 as accurate (because if he was lying about this it could be easily refuted by MyBookie).

And I do think that we can take the 10 month play window as accurate (again easy to refute).

I think that overall this was massively +EV..... 2K ---> 300K in 10 months with $2 - $5 stakes...... ?


The other issue I think is worth addressing here is this: There has been some talk about if the EV+ was, say, +105 then that is not too bad of a "line error" versus if the EV+ was something like +125 or whatever.

But - slots are different to placing a bet on some NBA game. IF the EV+ was even as low as +105 - the difference between a slot and an NBA game is that you can sit there on the slot for hour after hour hitting spin and accumulating on your +105 edge. There are no time limits and you are not limited by a "lack of games".

So - even if the edge was only +105 - because of the different nature of slots to sports matches I am not sure that this would be a fair comparison when deciding if the edge was too large or not to justify paying the player.

[DontTailMe]

You're trying too hard IMO.

It is the stake size closer to $2? Or $5? Or exactly in the middle? And how did the stake sizing change as they entered +EV territory? Sorry, but this is one of your big unknowns/assumptions.

10 month play window can translate into a HUGE range of possible live play hours/spins. An even bigger unknown/assumption.

How much he played these +EV games vs. -EV games is another huge unknown/assumption.

And remember, the uncertainty of every unknown/assumption is multiplying the uncertainty of your final answer, kind of like the odds of a parlay.

I hate to say it, but this exercise is pointless.

[Ewan101]

You're trying too hard IMO.

It is the stake size closer to $2? Or $5? Or exactly in the middle? And how did the stake sizing change as they entered +EV territory? Sorry, but this is one of your big unknowns/assumptions.

10 month play window can translate into a HUGE range of possible live play hours/spins. An even bigger unknown/assumption.

How much he played these +EV games vs. -EV games is another huge unknown/assumption.

And remember, the uncertainty of every unknown/assumption is multiplying the uncertainty of your final answer, kind of like the odds of a parlay.

This exercise is pointless.

Again I tend to agree.

No-one can dispute it was +EV - but trying to nail down the exact +NNN is not possible.

Do you have comments re: the comparison between a slot and an NBA game and (due to the different nature of these events) that a comparison of what would be a "tolerable" edge to the bookmaker is not a meaningful comparison?

[HedgeHog]

I tend to agree.

But We do have some non-assumptive facts here.

He made $300,000 in ten months with a negligible initial stake of $2K.

I do think we can take his stake size of $2 - $5 as accurate (because if he was lying about this it could be easily refuted by MyBookie).

And I do think that we can take the 10 month play window as accurate (again easy to refute).

I think that overall this was massively +EV..... 2K ---> 300K in 10 months with $2 - $5 stakes...... ?

If Spencer were to provide his data on this game (winnings, estimated time invested and average stake amount), I think a more reliable edge could be computed. Not sure he would be willing to do this during an ongoing case against MB, as it might be detrimental to his own interests.