[Hareeba!]

My experience today ( first time it happened ):

Dear Pinnacle Sports Client,
Your Skrill deposit has been accepted and the funds added to your account.

Amount: 3552 EUR
Date: 4/9/2014 10:38:20 AM

I went all in on tennis ( Querrey vs Hewitt ) and won so i requested a 6k euros withdrawal as i don't like to have a lot on the account due to poor bankroll management i tend to do if i don't withdraw often... Would still leave close to 1k euros to bet with so i went ahead with the withdrawal request and recieved that same email:

Dear Pinnacle Sports Client,
Your withdrawal request was declined. The reason we declined your withdrawal is you made a deposit and are now requesting a withdrawal without rolling (wagering) your deposit the minimum stated on our site, (five times).

Was shocked at reading that and was gonna right them a pissed off email when home but would probably take the 3% fee, however, once home and just a little over 1 hour after initially declining my withdrawal:





I assume they getting so much hate over this that they are changing their minds ? It's not like i'm losing with them and so they had mercy.

Good thing if so as the 5x rollover is ridiculous.

Was your $6k withdrawal all profit or did it include a partial withdrawal of the amount you deposited in April?

Profit is free of the 3% fee.

[RapaQues]

Was your $6k withdrawal all profit or did it include a partial withdrawal of the amount you deposited in April?

Profit is free of the 3% fee.

The deposit was today. 3552 euros

Instantly i went all in on Querrey to beat Hewitt.

367143198-1 9

10:39am 9-Apr-14

9-Apr-14

Tennis Match Odds

Sam Querrey vs Lleyton Hewitt for Match.

1.901

3,552.00

3,200.00

I requested withdrawal of 6k.

752 euros would be left in the account, minus the 12 euros for the withdrawal fee = 740 euros. Wich is what i have in the account now.

So the withdrawal had quite a big ammount of the deposit.

[Hareeba!]

The deposit was today. 3552 euros

Instantly i went all in on Querrey to beat Hewitt.

367143198-1 9

10:39am 9-Apr-14

9-Apr-14

Tennis Match Odds

Sam Querrey vs Lleyton Hewitt for Match.

1.901

3,552.00

3,200.00

I requested withdrawal of 6k.

752 euros would be left in the account, minus the 12 euros for the withdrawal fee = 740 euros. Wich is what i have in the account now.

So the withdrawal had quite a big ammount of the deposit.

Thanks.
Very obviously some inconsistencies going on here.
SBR can you get some clarity on all of this for us please?

[RapaQues]

Response from them to my email...

---------------------------------------------

Dear Client,

Thank you for your email.

Please be informed that the new 5 times Roll Over Rule was implemented on April 1st 2014.

We have therefore been lenient to clients that were not aware of this new rule and have therefore allowed clients to withdrawal without having rolled over their deposits 5 times.

Please note that from now on, your deposits must be rolled over 5 times before a withdrawal may be approved without the 3% fees.


Kind regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

-----------------------------------------------------------------

At least they seem to agree that they are to blame for not properly informing their customers.

[Hareeba!]

At least they seem to agree that they are to blame for not properly informing their customers.

Great to see they've at least conceded that point.
But I'd have thought an email or message on their home page is needed to ensure all customers are aware of it now.

[Optional]

This email response I received from Pinnacle appears to contradict this story?

Dear Sir,

Following your example, if you make a deposit of $5,000, lose $4,900 and then deposit $5,000, you will be required to rollover 5 times the amount of $5,100 (i.e. $25,500). If a deposit is wagered and lost it does not need to be rolled over further.

That sounds unusual if correct.

According to this I could deposit $1000, attracting a $5000 rollover. Lose my first bet for $500, then immediately reduce the rollover required on that deposit to $2500 by simply depositing another $50.

[Hareeba!]

That sounds unusual if correct.

According to this I could deposit $1000, attracting a $5000 rollover. Lose my first bet for $500, then immediately reduce the rollover required on that deposit to $2500 by simply depositing another $50.

It would not surprise me to find that most of the CS team haven't really got a proper handle on this thing yet.
Maybe even those who dreamed it up didn't fully appreciate the possible permutations and specify its workings.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Tricky one this - it's easy to believe they have, as they claim, a subset of customers who are essentially unprofitable because of those 3% moneybookers fees. On the other hand: these sort of fees really piss people off, disproportionately to the actual fees involved. They could easily lose a lot of customers to this.

Any other book would reconcile these by cutting off the customer from bonuses, and relying on their juice to absorb the transaction costs. Pinnacle can't do this, and the other common option (account limiting) would hurt their unique selling point.

Awkward.

[Hareeba!]

Tricky one this - it's easy to believe they have, as they claim, a subset of customers who are essentially unprofitable because of those 3% moneybookers fees. On the other hand: these sort of fees really piss people off, disproportionately to the actual fees involved. They could easily lose a lot of customers to this.

Any other book would reconcile these by cutting off the customer from bonuses, and relying on their juice to absorb the transaction costs. Pinnacle can't do this, and the other common option (account limiting) would hurt their unique selling point.

Awkward.

Why not simply slug those making more regular withdrawals a lot harder?

[virtozo]

boy what a mess! goodbye pinnacle, hello matchbook!

[NavsPicks]

you are straight up a piece of shit....in no way should anyone think this is at all acceptable, especially considering the OP likes to have decent sized wagers, it would seem pinnacle are definitely having issues if they are having to resort to making money this way....the way i see it they are just shooting themselves in the foot.....

The cost on a 5k deposit withdrawing 45k would be 3%. Which is $150.. (Initial deposit) id rather pay $150 and have it sent from pinnacle than pay $15 and have it sent from bodog or matchbook . But that's just me..

[NavsPicks]

Everyone's overreacting . No one is taking a second to read the rules just pissed off about a rollover . I'll explain this to you dumb fks.

Pinnacle:

I deposit $10,000. I win a couple bets and take it to $28,000. (I haven't rolled over 5x •50k•) I request a withdrawal for $28,000 and pay the 3% fee. So they send me over $27,700 no questions asked.

Bodog
I deposit $10,000. I win a couple bets and take it to $28,000. No rollover needed so I request a withdrawal. They take $30 fee. Tell me they need to talk to management before processing a big withdrawal. Days pass.. And now their accounting teams looking into it. Days pass.. Now they've processed it. IF IM LUCKY. I'll get it without any bs investigation.

Is pinnacle not worth 3%? Let's ask the Americans..

[Hareeba!]

Everyone's overreacting . No one is taking a second to read the rules just pissed off about a rollover . I'll explain this to you dumb fks.

Pinnacle:

I deposit $10,000. I win a couple bets and take it to $28,000. (I haven't rolled over 5x •50k•) I request a withdrawal for $28,000 and pay the 3% fee. So they send me over $27,700 no questions asked.

Bodog
I deposit $10,000. I win a couple bets and take it to $28,000. No rollover needed so I request a withdrawal. They take $30 fee. Tell me they need to talk to management before processing a big withdrawal. Days pass.. And now their accounting teams looking into it. Days pass.. Now they've processed it. IF IM LUCKY. I'll get it without any bs investigation.

Is pinnacle not worth 3%? Let's ask the Americans..

Stuff the Americans!
Stuff Bodog!
Pinnacle's odds are not so competitive when compared with Matchbook, SBO and Betfair as to make them worthwhile putting up with this crap.
I don't need to and I don't ever pay fees to withdraw my own money.
Yes, I'd like to keep betting there but I refuse to make another deposit under these conditions, so stuff Pinnacle too!

[NavsPicks]

Stuff the Americans!
Stuff Bodog!
Pinnacle's odds are not so competitive when compared with Matchbook, SBO and Betfair as to make them worthwhile putting up with this crap.
I don't need to and I don't ever pay fees to withdraw my own money.
Yes, I'd like to keep betting there but I refuse to make another deposit under these conditions, so stuff Pinnacle too!

Lol . I'm not saying this rule is shitty.. If bet365 or Bodog or MB had done this they would've lost a lot of customers. Pinnacle being pinnacle can do this and won't lose that many because of how safe they are. I bet bet islands customers would pay 3% to get their money out.. Better safe than sorry.

[frog2]

The issue here is what do you expect from a discount bookmaker?

Pinnacle supply a no frills website, no live video, no data on teams and they charge for withdrawing money if its costing them alot for you to do so.

By not providing all these bundled products that most of us do not want gamblers do not have to subsidise the customers that want these fancy features.

If you want low percentage books and decent limits you have to accept that you do not get bundled products like free withdrawls.

Would you rather the books went from 102% to 105% so that people who wanted to desposit and then withdraw cash on a daily basis could do so for free? Or would you rather just pay for the services you actually want to use?

[Hareeba!]

Lol . I'm not saying this rule is shitty.. If bet365 or Bodog or MB had done this they would've lost a lot of customers. Pinnacle being pinnacle can do this and won't lose that many because of how safe they are. I bet bet islands customers would pay 3% to get their money out.. Better safe than sorry.

I'm more than comfortable with the safety of the books I mentioned. Been using them for years with no issues.

Pinnacle will lose a lot of custom through this ill-conceived move.

[Hareeba!]

The issue here is what do you expect from a discount bookmaker?

Pinnacle supply a no frills website, no live video, no data on teams and they charge for withdrawing money if its costing them alot for you to do so.

By not providing all these bundled products that most of us do not want gamblers do not have to subsidise the customers that want these fancy features.

If you want low percentage books and decent limits you have to accept that you do not get bundled products like free withdrawls.

Would you rather the books went from 102% to 105% so that people who wanted to desposit and then withdraw cash on a daily basis could do so for free? Or would you rather just pay for the services you actually want to use?

No, I'm not interested in daily deposits and withdrawals. I'm not one of the abusers Pinnacle refers to. I deposit and withdraw only as needed and pay no fees for it to anyone.

As I said before, Matchbook, SBO and Betfair all offer as good as Pinnacle without the withdrawal fees.

[dealer wins]

The issue here is what do you expect from a discount bookmaker?

Pinnacle supply a no frills website, no live video, no data on teams and they charge for withdrawing money if its costing them alot for you to do so.

By not providing all these bundled products that most of us do not want gamblers do not have to subsidise the customers that want these fancy features.

If you want low percentage books and decent limits you have to accept that you do not get bundled products like free withdrawls.

Would you rather the books went from 102% to 105% so that people who wanted to desposit and then withdraw cash on a daily basis could do so for free? Or would you rather just pay for the services you actually want to use?

When I am betting my own money, without any bonuses etc, I want to be able to withdraw it when I want, and receive 100% of it.

I probably roll over my deposits over 20 times on average, but if I go on a winning streak or have one sizeable bet at long odds win, putting most of my roll in Pinnacle, then I need to be able to withdraw that immediately and without charge.

This new rule means I may not be able to do that, hence I cannot continue to use Pinnacle.

[frog2]

So you would rather get worse odds for all your bets so that on the odd chance you want to withdraw before rolling over a deposit you can do so for free?

[Hareeba!]

So you would rather get worse odds for all your bets so that on the odd chance you want to withdraw before rolling over a deposit you can do so for free?

Somebody's not reading/comprehending eh?

You can generally get better odds at Matchbook, SBO or Betfair even if this Pinnacle rule didn't exist. Taking it into account it would be pretty rare that Pinnacle gives you a better result.

[OnkelChris]

[QUOTE=dealer wins;21608682

I probably roll over my deposits over 20 times on average, but if I go on a winning streak or have one sizeable bet at long odds win, putting most of my roll in Pinnacle, then I need to be able to withdraw that immediately and without charge.

[/QUOTE]

You can still withdraw the winnings of your streak for free. So where is the problem?

[frog2]

Somebody's not reading/comprehending eh?

You can generally get better odds at Matchbook, SBO or Betfair even if this Pinnacle rule didn't exist. Taking it into account it would be pretty rare that Pinnacle gives you a better result.

SBO has similiar percentages for Asian hcaps but most worse for other markets. Betfair has the Premium Charge that makes it a non-starter if you are a position gambler. Matchbook has very limited liquidity.

[Hareeba!]

SBO has similiar percentages for Asian hcaps but most worse for other markets. Betfair has the Premium Charge that makes it a non-starter if you are a position gambler. Matchbook has very limited liquidity.

Yes SBO is specifically there for ah
Only fools get caught with Betfair's pc
Yes, Matchbook is an exchange and liquidity is always a problem with them until late on many markets but unless you're betting really large or really early isn't a huge problem

[Hareeba!]

You can still withdraw the winnings of your streak for free. So where is the problem?

If you withdraw your winnings it leaves you short of ammunition to make the balance of your turnover requirement without making a further deposit, thus further boosting your turnover requirement.

There's the problem!

[OnkelChris]

Well that makes no sense to me. If you dont want to leave short of ammunition then just do not withdraw too much of your winnings.

[Brooklyn Dick]

Folks,
We have a meeting with Pinnacle mgt tomorrow morning for clarification on new deposit rules. We understand a cleaner outline and FAQ will be published then too.

What I can see from their new rules...

• It does not apply unless your deposit was made after the start of this month.

• If you were to deposit $100 and bet $500 there is no 3% fee to withdraw.

• If you deposit $100 and win $10,000 there is no fee to withdraw that $10,000. It's 3% of the deposited $100 ONLY if you didn't bet that original $100 5x for $500 wagered.

• If you lose the deposit, it does not have to be rolled over. Deposit $100 today and lose it, then deposit $100, wager it and win, you only need to roll that 2nd $100 four more times. (If you won $100,000 from the very first bet, you can take that now w/o 3% fee)

How about the results of this meeting please?

[easyliving]

this is the kind of behavior you would expect from a book that is desperate for money and is looking to keep your money for as long as possible and hopes you lose it while trying to complete the rollover. 2X rollover on the initial deposit is the max I would accept anything more is simply too much

[unluckysob]

I never withdraw more than 1 time a month---people that withdraw constantly bog down the system.

[capone1899]

Love how they just charged the rules and didn't inform anyone about it until they tried to withdraw. That's very shady

[lecubs28]

all i have to say is

GOODBYE PINNACLE

HELLO MATCHBOOK

[allin1]

The cost on a 5k deposit withdrawing 45k would be 3%. Which is $150.. (Initial deposit) id rather pay $150 and have it sent from pinnacle than pay $15 and have it sent from bodog or matchbook . But that's just me..

Matchbook is fully licensed to process wagers by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC).

Pinnacle is licensed to conduct online gaming operations by the Government of Curacao.

Matchbook sounds more safe to me but I might be wrong.

[allin1]

Love how they just charged the rules and didn't inform anyone about it until they tried to withdraw. That's very shady

The way they did it was very unprofessional.

And they even claim it is industry standard which is absolute bullcrap.

They have articles advising bettors not to be fooled by bookmaker's bonuses because they have a rollover requirement, and now they apply that rollover requirement on your own money, their "bonus" being their reduced juice and high limits.

[ChewFu]

Would you rather the books went from 102% to 105% so that people who wanted to desposit and then withdraw cash on a daily basis could do so for free? Or would you rather just pay for the services you actually want to use?

This is essentially it. If you want big limits and low margins, you'll have to compromise somewhere. Direct your anger at the payment processors rather than the bookmaker that wants to make a profit. Slapping the fee on folk retrospectively was shitty, but they've put that right. People depositing 10k, placing one bet, bailing out, then rinsing and repeating were costing too much. If you're not doing this, nothing to worry about.

For Hareeba! and others saying that Betfair, SBO and Matchbook are superior...there's an obvious answer.

[dirtdog52658]

The way they did it was very unprofessional.

And they even claim it is industry standard which is absolute bullcrap.

They have articles advising bettors not to be fooled by bookmaker's bonuses because they have a rollover requirement, and now they apply that rollover requirement on your own money, their "bonus" being their reduced juice and high limits.

Think of it as a 3% deposit fee to play reduced juice. If you complete the 5 time rollover they give you your deposit fee back. If you don't your still welcome to pull your money at anytime. Until someone comes out with reduced juice and limits the way pinnacle does, this is the only option for people looking for that. I've paid deposit fees 100 times at a ton of different books, be it them or the method in which I am sending either way this is just another deposit fee with a chance of getting it back. Your money is never tied in like a bonus where you have zero option to pull until the rollover is done, here you can still pull whenever you want.

[Bill Dozer]

When I am betting my own money, without any bonuses etc, I want to be able to withdraw it when I want, and receive 100% of it.

I probably roll over my deposits over 20 times on average, but if I go on a winning streak or have one sizeable bet at long odds win, putting most of my roll in Pinnacle, then I need to be able to withdraw that immediately and without charge.

This new rule means I may not be able to do that, hence I cannot continue to use Pinnacle.

If you deposit $100 and win $50,000 on a future bet, you have a balance of $50,100. If you want the $50,000, you can take it then. If you dont want to rollover the $100 four more time and want all out ...It will cost you $3 to withdraw $50,100.

I think what will happen is Pinnacle will see a small % of people be more conscious of their deposit amount in relation to their betting limits. So if you have $10,000 in Skrill, instead of moving all that to Pinnacle for a weekend of betting, theyll see some folks move in their bet unit amount of say $1000 bet it, then another $1000 bet that and so fourth.

Like any good business, theyll monitor it and see if its good for all and does whats intended.