[Eddy Munny]

[captrobey]

I swore he said he was with his wife i guess he was by himself at that field with other people there too. I remember driving through Phoenix on the way to Lake Havasu looking up wondering where in the sky it was.

[StackinGreen]

I don't doubt those people "saw something" at least in their own minds, for real. What's so convenient is that it was at night, it was just a bunch of "lights" and any other human claim is purely subjective. The pilot that they refer to wasn't even a primary interview, that was at best secondhand info or worse.

It was a UFO, they happen all the time. We don't know what they are at times, and other times we do.

There is a no conspiracy and there is STILL no evidence aliens exist. Period.

[StackinGreen]

Love how he says "I'm guessing it does not exist" insinuating i am lying and making the entire thing up. And you are right this was not some little case it was all over the news when he came forward. I did put the link where he admitted he lied i do not know how to get it on here any other way. But i remember seeing him walking with a news crew and he was at like a playground or something and was pointing where it flew overhead.

No, more that in the ramblings of all sorts of people, nearly 50% of what they claim is unsubstantiated, and when you find that they actually did say something (like the governor here) you still see that it's a human being with a subjective experience that gets everyone nowhere. Credibility has little to do with it, we can all be flummoxed or fooled by a whole number of things that we "experience".

Now, I'm not saying that it's fake but it's not EVIDENCE in a strict sense. I don't know, either, but you can't blame me for being skeptical. Tons of experiences are found to be fraudulent and/or misunderstood.

In any case, what is your position about UFOs, aliens, etc.? That they exist? That they are higher level beings? That they visit our weirdest people at the most inopportune times? These guys, if real, don't do a very good job of interacting with us in any productive way.

[captrobey]

I don't doubt those people "saw something" at least in their own minds, for real. What's so convenient is that it was at night, it was just a bunch of "lights" and any other human claim is purely subjective. The pilot that they refer to wasn't even a primary interview, that was at best secondhand info or worse.

It was a UFO, they happen all the time. We don't know what they are at times, and other times we do.

There is a no conspiracy and there is STILL no evidence aliens exist. Period.

I will not be able to convince you that Aliens exist as much as i believe that they do. That is your choice. There is i think more evidence though that Alien life exists(Pilots,Police Officers,Military)then God actually existing. There are more videos and pictures of UFOs then there are of God. There are more witnesses to UFOs then there are of people they saw God. And i am not saying God does not exist it is just a point i am making.

But to just say these people "Saw Something-at least in their own minds" is ridiculous. You make it sound like an entire city just had a mass hallucination.Many of these people know what flares look like. These were not typical lights if they were it would not have created a mass panic of an entire city that knows what flares look like. I know not every little thing seen is an alien. However there are certain events that you cannot dismiss as being more then a "Normal "everyday situation.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

The phoenix lights drawing looks strikingly similar to a B-2

[captrobey]

No, more that in the ramblings of all sorts of people, nearly 50% of what they claim is unsubstantiated, and when you find that they actually did say something (like the governor here) you still see that it's a human being with a subjective experience that gets everyone nowhere. Credibility has little to do with it, we can all be flummoxed or fooled by a whole number of things that we "experience".

Now, I'm not saying that it's fake but it's not EVIDENCE in a strict sense. I don't know, either, but you can't blame me for being skeptical. Tons of experiences are found to be fraudulent and/or misunderstood.

In any case, what is your position about UFOs, aliens, etc.? That they exist? That they are higher level beings? That they visit our weirdest people at the most inopportune times? These guys, if real, don't do a very good job of interacting with us in any productive way.

Well Yes i of course believe there are Aliens and they have visited. But i have had an encounter which i even showed pictures where it was. I think in the infinite Universe the Odds of there being intelligent life has got to be a given. It has to be out there Somewhere. The bigger question is- Has it reached Earth.

I think Yes. But i cannot answer how they have interacted with us. But people that say they have been abducted have actually been found to have had "Implants" in their bodies. There is a doctor that removes these because he wants to know what they are. They had the same materials that you would find in a meteor. How did they get there? What about all the people that saw Travis Walton taken by a craft? Several Loggers. They all told the same story and they all passed Lie detector tests.

You say there is no Conspiracy and sure you may be right who knows. But there have been a lot of people that have seen things in the Military that were silenced or had evidence destroyed . Many people feel that the Government has a deal with them . They get Technology in return for experiments on Humans. Yea, i know that sounds crazy. But what makes me wonder are the people that actually say they were abducted that like i said earlier had these implants in them.

But in the end i cannot say what they want. But if i had to take a guess i would say they have contacted the government already and are experimenting on people for some purpose. After the Roswell crash there was a spike in technology . The big mistake there was admitting they had a crashed UFO then trying to take it back the next day. And the other thing again are the actual implants that were made by materials not on this planet. I think they were tracking devices .

I will say this -i was in the Military . And if they do not want you to know something they will definitely cover it up.

[StackinGreen]

The phoenix lights drawing looks strikingly similar to a B-2

This is what often gets confused. He tries to make my argument that "they all hallucinated" to diminish the argument.

NO

I'm saying THEY don't know what they saw. You don't either. That's the point. In subsequent years, these are in fact explained in many cases to be military exercises or reflections of already existing structures that at one time were military secrets etc.

[StackinGreen]

There are more videos and pictures of UFOs then there are of God. There are more witnesses to UFOs then there are of people they saw God. And i am not saying God does not exist it is just a point i am making.

I want to reiterate that I'm not saying that Aliens don't exist, I just find that most things involving so-called aliens turn out to be hoaxes and others (most things) are actually fully explained and debunked. I have no problem with Aliens existing, if they do.

I will say that there are far more holy people who have experienced God and are far more reliable than any random American fat ass on the corner that looked up into the sky and doesn't have any idea what (s)he is looking at. So all in all, living the amazing gift that is life I find it far more reasonable and trustworthy to believe in God and others who have experienced God's holiness than something that has been debunked in many instances (God hasn't and never will be).

Again, If God has already or wanted to create aliens, fine, but there is no good evidence that they exist. At all.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

This is what often gets confused. He tries to make my argument that "they all hallucinated" to diminish the argument.

NO

I'm saying THEY don't know what they saw. You don't either. That's the point. In subsequent years, these are in fact explained in many cases to be military exercises or reflections of already existing structures that at one time were military secrets etc.

I'm just saying that they are similar as far as shape is concerned. It was unveiled in 89 though so it seems unlikely and that such a well publicized project would go unrecognized.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

I want to reiterate that I'm not saying that Aliens don't exist, I just find that most things involving so-called aliens turn out to be hoaxes and others (most things) are actually fully explained and debunked. I have no problem with Aliens existing, if they do.

I will say that there are far more holy people who have experienced God and are far more reliable than any random American fat ass on the corner that looked up into the sky and doesn't have any idea what (s)he is looking at. So all in all, living the amazing gift that is life I find it far more reasonable and trustworthy to believe in God and others who have experienced God's holiness than something that has been debunked in many instances (God hasn't and never will be).

Again, If God has already or wanted to create aliens, fine, but there is no good evidence that they exist. At all.

I don't think its fair to say that the existence of god is on the same level as the existence of aliens. Alien life forms almost certainly, from a statistical standpoint, do exist. The question is does their proximity to earth, in all likelihood a distance precluding contact, make it something that will be nearly impossible to prove?

The existence of god relies more in that of faith. It can be a circular argument at times. Something does not exist because one believes from their empirical experience that it does exist. I don't think it is possible to be statistically certain that god exists whereas I think we can be fairly certain that we are not the only life in the universe given its scale.

[captrobey]

This is what often gets confused. He tries to make my argument that "they all hallucinated" to diminish the argument.

NO

I'm saying THEY don't know what they saw. You don't either. That's the point. In subsequent years, these are in fact explained in many cases to be military exercises or reflections of already existing structures that at one time were military secrets etc.

When you said"Saw in their own minds"It sounds like you were saying they basically all imagined it.

[Eddy Munny]

Trying to convince a guy like StackinGreen of anything he doesn't want to believe in is a pointless task.

He lives in a box... a nice, comfortable, familiar, safe, little box. His attitude towards the subject speaks volumes. He only accepts conventional, palatable ideas that are fed to him through "trusted" sources and anything that falls outside of those meticulously constructed parameters elicits incredulity and condescension.

"Random American fatass looking up at the sky" is how he perceives the average witness to a UFO, despite the fact that there's a litany of constituents in the UFO community who roundly contradict this stereotype, some of whom rank amongst the most venerated in the fields of science, engineering, aeronautics etc.

Ironically "random American fatass" could just as well be used to describe your average bible beater who denounces anything that isn't explained in his favorite book.

[captrobey]

I don't think its fair to say that the existence of god is on the same level as the existence of aliens. Alien life forms almost certainly, from a statistical standpoint, do exist. The question is does their proximity to earth, in all likelihood a distance precluding contact, make it something that will be nearly impossible to prove?

The existence of god relies more in that of faith. It can be a circular argument at times. Something does not exist because one believes from their empirical experience that it does exist. I don't think it is possible to be statistically certain that god exists whereas I think we can be fairly certain that we are not the only life in the universe given its scale.

Not on the same level but both have really no Solid proof they exist 100% sure. But of the two there is far more evidence that Aliens exist then does God. And yes it is a matter of faith with God. Do not get me wrong- i watch those shows that d come on once in awhile like the Face Of Jesus or anything like that. I am open minded to everything and want to hear as much about everything as i can.

But when you compare the two Aliens have so much more evidence. That is why there are 50xS More shows on them there is so much more to show. My point is people who believe in god will never say he does not exist. That is fine maybe he does. But it just bothers me that a lot of these same people will believe in God yet not believe there may be Aliens on this planet. And Sgreen has a GREAT point why couldn't if there is a God he have created Aliens. If he created the universe then of course that would be possible.

[captrobey]

Trying to convince a guy like StackinGreen of anything he doesn't want to believe in is a pointless task.

He lives in a box... a nice, comfortable, familiar, safe, little box. His attitude towards the subject speaks volumes. He only accepts conventional, palatable ideas that are fed to him through "trusted" sources and anything that falls outside of those meticulously constructed parameters elicits incredulity and condescension.

"Random American fatass looking up at the sky" is how he perceives the average witness to a UFO, despite the fact that there's a litany of constituents in the UFO community who roundly contradict this stereotype, some of whom make rank amongst the most venerated in the fields of science, engineering, aeronautics etc.

Ironically "random American fatass" could just as well be used to describe your average bible beater who denounces anything that isn't explained in his favorite book.

Yea i know i will not convince him and that is fine. He being a skeptic will not change his views unless he sees something for himself. I never just believe everything everyone tells me either. But i am open to it actually have happened to that person. I do not just assume they are wrong and did not see what they did. I was just watching a show where a guy was saying he was taken by aliens when he sleeps and forced into a virtual arena where he is forced to fight different creatures . An insane story. Sure, it probably is so far fetched it is not true. But what if it is? I always leave that possibility open.

[StackinGreen]

Trying to convince a guy like StackinGreen of anything he doesn't want to believe in is a pointless task.

He lives in a box... a nice, comfortable, familiar, safe, little box. His attitude towards the subject speaks volumes. He only accepts conventional, palatable ideas that are fed to him through "trusted" sources and anything that falls outside of those meticulously constructed parameters elicits incredulity and condescension.

"Random American fatass looking up at the sky" is how he perceives the average witness to a UFO, despite the fact that there's a litany of constituents in the UFO community who roundly contradict this stereotype, some of whom rank amongst the most venerated in the fields of science, engineering, aeronautics etc.

Ironically "random American fatass" could just as well be used to describe your average bible beater who denounces anything that isn't explained in his favorite book.

Yes, but I'm not giving the random southern fat ass as evidence to explain something that cannot be explained. YOU GUYS ARE.

Your whole post is about conspiracy. Is evidence based on science regarding scientific topics "conventional"? It's the definition of evidence.

To convince someone you have to give them some sorta of evidence. So, please present the evidence. Not insults, which do nothing but show how emotional your case is (and thus lacks credibility and even moreso, dependence on evidence)

[StackinGreen]

I don't think its fair to say that the existence of god is on the same level as the existence of aliens. Alien life forms almost certainly, from a statistical standpoint, do exist. The question is does their proximity to earth, in all likelihood a distance precluding contact, make it something that will be nearly impossible to prove?

The existence of god relies more in that of faith. It can be a circular argument at times. Something does not exist because one believes from their empirical experience that it does exist. I don't think it is possible to be statistically certain that god exists whereas I think we can be fairly certain that we are not the only life in the universe given its scale.

The universe came out of nothing, no one can explain it, yet that's less convincing of an argument for God as opposed to something which you have LESS evidence (even statistically) for? When you can tell me how something comes from nothing and that's not more likely of a supreme being than something created which we have no evidence for ... I'll be waiting

[StackinGreen]

Yea i know i will not convince him and that is fine. He being a skeptic will not change his views unless he sees something for himself. I never just believe everything everyone tells me either. But i am open to it actually have happened to that person. I do not just assume they are wrong and did not see what they did. I was just watching a show where a guy was saying he was taken by aliens when he sleeps and forced into a virtual arena where he is forced to fight different creatures . An insane story. Sure, it probably is so far fetched it is not true. But what if it is? I always leave that possibility open.

Why don't you believe me when I have said countless times that I'm open to the fact that they exist, just present the evidence?

The difference is that YOUR [potential] evidence IS based on science and can be shown and defined to me very discretely and realistically, and by definition, God (uncreated being), is not.

So your requirement is to present the evidence since your topic IS scientific and material, as are your claims (it was a ship, it was fast, it moved, we saw it, etc).

[captrobey]

Why don't you believe me when I have said countless times that I'm open to the fact that they exist, just present the evidence?

The difference is that YOUR [potential] evidence IS based on science and can be shown and defined to me very discretely and realistically, and by definition, God (uncreated being), is not.

So your requirement is to present the evidence since your topic IS scientific and material, as are your claims (it was a ship, it was fast, it moved, we saw it, etc).

I do believe you but unless i can grab whatever the hell it was that i saw and hand it to you there is no evidence i can give you.

[Eddy Munny]

Yes, but I'm not giving the random southern fat ass as evidence to explain something that cannot be explained. YOU GUYS ARE.

Your whole post is about conspiracy. Is evidence based on science regarding scientific topics "conventional"? It's the definition of evidence.

To convince someone you have to give them some sorta of evidence. So, please present the evidence. Not insults, which do nothing but show how emotional your case is (and thus lacks credibility and even moreso, dependence on evidence)

Wow, this entire post is just all kinds of wrong.

First of all, where exactly did I insult you? The thing about the "box?" Is that where your toes got stepped on? Feel free to dismantle that notion, if it is in fact a misconception, but that's honestly how I perceive you based on all your posts in this thread.

I'll cite a couple of examples I can recall offhand: You replied, in response to the governor's quotes, "I'm guessing it doesn't exist." That right there tells me that you are not open to any new input concerning a subject in which you've long already rendered a verdict. If it doesn't reinforce your current paradigm, then you have no use for it.

Also, there was the comment about people most likely being "confused" or "imagining things" when they report crafts in the sky that span the length of several football fields. That's pretty dismissive, if not outright arrogant. One might imagine a coat-rack in a dark corner of the room to be another person at first glance, sure, I can accept that... but how does one simply "imagine" a virtual aircraft carrier with wings, that holds it's relative position in the sky for several minutes, if not longer?

Furthermore, don't cry about insults when you're the one who played the "random American fatass" card so eagerly, which, as I already alluded to, couldn't be further from the truth.

My case isn't emotional, other than the fact that I frequently am met with stubborn, ill-informed, dumbed-down individuals like yourself that instantly scoff at the idea that the universe could possibly portend something that isn't chartered and explained by the status quo. It's easy for you to come off as emotionally neutral because you just adhere to the generally accepted truths disseminated through the very apparatuses that were designed to render the populace resigned and orderly, not necessarily to educate or enlighten.

Lastly "conspiracy" is just a cop-out word that is thrown around to disparage or dismiss an idea, topic, or theory wholesale... without really having to address any valid information that is being presented from an opposing point of view.

I mean, what's so conspiratorial about Captrobey's personal story? Does he have ulterior motives? What about the thousands of people who witnessed Phoenix Lights? Did they roll out of bed that morning with a plot to create chaos and relentless inquiry just for thrills? I mean the former governor of Arizona admitted to seeing something beyond mundane explanation, despite the fact that such a public acknowledgement could have disastrous consequences for his reputation.

This pounding on the drums for "scientific evidence" is a dead-end argument because science can only reveal the mysteries to which science is privy. The universe and it's constituents aren't bound by the five basic senses that comprise the human experience, thus it's inevitable that there exists infinite possibilities that our scientific paradigm simply cannot apprehend and squeeze into a textbook to satisfy your curiosity.

There is, on the other hand, plenty of documented cases of UFO contact/sightings, some of which you may find irrational, others which could prove quite compelling. Don't expect an SBR thread to do all the legwork for you. If you care to take an objective view, you'll seek it out... if not, then you'll just stagnate in your insolent stupor and eventually morph into the dreaded "random American fatass" that you so passionately detest.

[JMon]

Munny come over to the FlyMe thread. I love your post and you'll be welcomed!

[Eddy Munny]

^^^ What is that?

[stevenash]

Google Frank Drake
(Drake equation)

His analysis is spot on

Back in 1961, astronomer Frank Drake devised an equation by which he could estimate the likelihood of the existence of alien life, taking into account a number of factors including the average number of planets able to support life and the fraction that could go on to support intelligent life. This was then implemented in 2001. The result: statistically, hundreds of thousands of such planets should technically exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

[JMon]

^^^ What is that?

Saloon, Munny

[StackinGreen]

Wow, this entire post is just all kinds of wrong.

First of all, where exactly did I insult you? The thing about the "box?" Is that where your toes got stepped on? Feel free to dismantle that notion, if it is in fact a misconception, but that's honestly how I perceive you based on all your posts in this thread.

I'll cite a couple of examples I can recall offhand: You replied, in response to the governor's quotes, "I'm guessing it doesn't exist." That right there tells me that you are not open to any new input concerning a subject in which you've long already rendered a verdict. If it doesn't reinforce your current paradigm, then you have no use for it.

Also, there was the comment about people most likely being "confused" or "imagining things" when they report crafts in the sky that span the length of several football fields. That's pretty dismissive, if not outright arrogant. One might imagine a coat-rack in a dark corner of the room to be another person at first glance, sure, I can accept that... but how does one simply "imagine" a virtual aircraft carrier with wings, that holds it's relative position in the sky for several minutes, if not longer?

Furthermore, don't cry about insults when you're the one who played the "random American fatass" card so eagerly, which, as I already alluded to, couldn't be further from the truth.

My case isn't emotional, other than the fact that I frequently am met with stubborn, ill-informed, dumbed-down individuals like yourself that instantly scoff at the idea that the universe could possibly portend something that isn't chartered and explained by the status quo. It's easy for you to come off as emotionally neutral because you just adhere to the generally accepted truths disseminated through the very apparatuses that were designed to render the populace resigned and orderly, not necessarily to educate or enlighten.

Lastly "conspiracy" is just a cop-out word that is thrown around to disparage or dismiss an idea, topic, or theory wholesale... without really having to address any valid information that is being presented from an opposing point of view.

I mean, what's so conspiratorial about Captrobey's personal story? Does he have ulterior motives? What about the thousands of people who witnessed Phoenix Lights? Did they roll out of bed that morning with a plot to create chaos and relentless inquiry just for thrills? I mean the former governor of Arizona admitted to seeing something beyond mundane explanation, despite the fact that such a public acknowledgement could have disastrous consequences for his reputation.

This pounding on the drums for "scientific evidence" is a dead-end argument because science can only reveal the mysteries to which science is privy. The universe and it's constituents aren't bound by the five basic senses that comprise the human experience, thus it's inevitable that there exists infinite possibilities that our scientific paradigm simply cannot apprehend and squeeze into a textbook to satisfy your curiosity.

There is, on the other hand, plenty of documented cases of UFO contact/sightings, some of which you may find irrational, others which could prove quite compelling. Don't expect an SBR thread to do all the legwork for you. If you care to take an objective view, you'll seek it out... if not, then you'll just stagnate in your insolent stupor and eventually morph into the dreaded "random American fatass" that you so passionately detest.

First, there's nothing "wrong" in what I said. You feel that it is wrong, so you are upset with me (another emotion) --- because you can't produce evidence. That's a fact. I'm not, and have never been, a person that is unwilling to admit that aliens exist. I admit quite readily that there are UFOs = Unidentified flying objects. That's what they are, unidentified. It is an accurate term. Editorializing it such that aliens exist is silly.

Second, and here is where your emotions betray you more and more, you do result to name-calling, and prove it in this post. I am "dumbed down" and "ill informed" because you can't produce evidence. I've forgotten more science than you know but that doesn't matter, that's all just stupid SBR back-and-forth so each one of us can pound our chests. The problem for you is that I can actually prove that I am more educated and well versed in science and overall educational levels than (statistically) everyone on SBR. Does that mean I know if there are aliens or NOT? Again, of course not. It does show that, however, I'm not "stupid" or stubborn --- quite the contrary --- I'm just looking for a reasonable person to show me how and why they reasonably believe in aliens.

Finally, you appeal to science as being a "dead end argument" for a subject that is based on verification and the physical world. Is your claim not that these ships are real, physical constructs that can be observed? Or are you saying that they are mystical and in the eye of the beholder? You can't have it both ways. If you were talking about uncreated beings like God, that's fine, but you aren't --- your claim is absolutely BASED ON relying on human senses (random people's testimony) to "prove" that aliens exist, and that's an extrapolation. I, again, don't disputed that UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS have existed, but what they are WE DO NOT KNOW.

Every viewpoint I have explained is objective, unemotional, and willing to entertain all the possibilities. You, however, have ascribed godly characteristics to these UFOs and beings you associate with them ("They aren't bound by the senses") ... but based on nothing but your whims.

Just admit that you believe they are godly and thus uncharacterizable and we can stop wasting our time. You can't have it both ways, but you are trying.

That is both silly and more stubborn than I'll ever be.

[captrobey]

Wow, this entire post is just all kinds of wrong.

First of all, where exactly did I insult you? The thing about the "box?" Is that where your toes got stepped on? Feel free to dismantle that notion, if it is in fact a misconception, but that's honestly how I perceive you based on all your posts in this thread.

I'll cite a couple of examples I can recall offhand: You replied, in response to the governor's quotes, "I'm guessing it doesn't exist." That right there tells me that you are not open to any new input concerning a subject in which you've long already rendered a verdict. If it doesn't reinforce your current paradigm, then you have no use for it.

Also, there was the comment about people most likely being "confused" or "imagining things" when they report crafts in the sky that span the length of several football fields. That's pretty dismissive, if not outright arrogant. One might imagine a coat-rack in a dark corner of the room to be another person at first glance, sure, I can accept that... but how does one simply "imagine" a virtual aircraft carrier with wings, that holds it's relative position in the sky for several minutes, if not longer?

Furthermore, don't cry about insults when you're the one who played the "random American fatass" card so eagerly, which, as I already alluded to, couldn't be further from the truth.

My case isn't emotional, other than the fact that I frequently am met with stubborn, ill-informed, dumbed-down individuals like yourself that instantly scoff at the idea that the universe could possibly portend something that isn't chartered and explained by the status quo. It's easy for you to come off as emotionally neutral because you just adhere to the generally accepted truths disseminated through the very apparatuses that were designed to render the populace resigned and orderly, not necessarily to educate or enlighten.

Lastly "conspiracy" is just a cop-out word that is thrown around to disparage or dismiss an idea, topic, or theory wholesale... without really having to address any valid information that is being presented from an opposing point of view.

I mean, what's so conspiratorial about Captrobey's personal story? Does he have ulterior motives? What about the thousands of people who witnessed Phoenix Lights? Did they roll out of bed that morning with a plot to create chaos and relentless inquiry just for thrills? I mean the former governor of Arizona admitted to seeing something beyond mundane explanation, despite the fact that such a public acknowledgement could have disastrous consequences for his reputation.

This pounding on the drums for "scientific evidence" is a dead-end argument because science can only reveal the mysteries to which science is privy. The universe and it's constituents aren't bound by the five basic senses that comprise the human experience, thus it's inevitable that there exists infinite possibilities that our scientific paradigm simply cannot apprehend and squeeze into a textbook to satisfy your curiosity.

There is, on the other hand, plenty of documented cases of UFO contact/sightings, some of which you may find irrational, others which could prove quite compelling. Don't expect an SBR thread to do all the legwork for you. If you care to take an objective view, you'll seek it out... if not, then you'll just stagnate in your insolent stupor and eventually morph into the dreaded "random American fatass" that you so passionately detest.

Well he does not say that Aliens do not exist but i think you are right no matter what you say he will not believe it . For example when i said about the governor admitting he lied and saw the craft even after we both put it on there he still found a way to play it down . To me after doing what he did and admitting he lied is a huge deal. He saw something and said not man-made. He was a pilot and in the military and still said that. Green said "I am betting it does not exist" about the Governor. We proved it does exist and he said it.

And Green yes i know you believe Aliens may exist. But you want evidence. But i think when Eddy said about the Phoenix Lights being one of the biggest published events out there and you did not know what it was , i have to assume you have not really done any research to see if there is any real tangible evidence out there. Otherwise you would know what the Phoenix lights were.

I do not expect to just change your mind just like that. But i also think no matter what i would tell you there would be no way to have you at least admit that -Yea , you were right and even though it does not prove there are definitely aliens , It is enough to make you wonder. Like with the Governor you said it does not exist i proved it does. But instead of admitting it does exist it seems like you just wanted to down play what he said.

You want evidence, unfortunately i cannot fly a craft up to you or drop an Alien body at your feet. But i think there is enough evidence to prove there is something happening out there. The Phoenix Lights,The Belgium UFO Wave, Roswell(The fact that they admitted it was a craft from another planet will never let this die),Rendlesham Forest,Travis Walton ,Battle Of LA (Not the Movie the actual event the Movie was based on),and to me the biggest one Alien Implants to abductees. I think there is enough evidence here to make anyone do a double take.

[StackinGreen]

Hold on, earlier in the thread you made assertions you couldn't prove so I also suggested that the governor might be another that someone just writes about on a forum. Ok, I see that the governor claims to have seen something. Again, that's not evidence ... because I trust you as much as the governor. So there's no difference in that being "evidence". You both saw UFOs. It remains that none of us know what they are.

It's all conspiracy theory type stuff. One question begs 15 more that no one can answer.

Please tell me your explanation on why they visit but only randomly. Why not just swing by for a chat, some tea or a beer? Why do they visit our weirdest people? Shouldn't they know we're pretty smart, if they are in fact as smart or smarter than we are? That's what no one can ever explain.

[captrobey]

Hold on, earlier in the thread you made assertions you couldn't prove so I also suggested that the governor might be another that someone just writes about on a forum. Ok, I see that the governor claims to have seen something. Again, that's not evidence ... because I trust you as much as the governor. So there's no difference in that being "evidence". You both saw UFOs. It remains that none of us know what they are.

It's all conspiracy theory type stuff. One question begs 15 more that no one can answer.

Please tell me your explanation on why they visit but only randomly. Why not just swing by for a chat, some tea or a beer? Why do they visit our weirdest people? Shouldn't they know we're pretty smart, if they are in fact as smart or smarter than we are? That's what no one can ever explain.

Weirdest people well i do not totally agree with that. Yes there are some weird people that say they were visited or abducted. Like i mentioned before the guy that says in his dreams he is transported to an arena to fight Alien creatures . Or the guy with the crazy hair on Ancient Aliens that says everything everywhere if because of an Alien.

But there are tons of witnesses that say they were abducted or saw a craft. Travis Walton says he did he was just a normal guy. Every other person that witnessed what happened took a lie detector test and passed. Tons of Military and Police officers have seen things. Pilots have seen things. Even Presidents like Jimmy Carter says he saw something.

And i do not think they visit "Randomly". I think they are here already . I would not be shocked if the government has some kind of deal with them in exchange for technology. The Implants in some of these people that were removed had to get there somehow. And to be made of the materials that were found in meteors makes it even more compelling. It would not be so hard to keep out of site. That is where USOs come into play. Unidentified Submeged Objects. Many sighting happen where they have seen crafts coming in and out of the water. You asked and that is what i think. There have been plenty or stories involving the Navy trying to keep up with objects moving underwater . I think that is why we cannot get to them how can we if they are deep enough that we cannot reach them.

But why they have not like you say pop up and say hello to everyone i cannot answer. I do not know what their agenda is . But i do believe people have been abducted. I think there is enough evidence to prove they are not lying through Lie detector tests and implants taken out. And all who say they have been abducted have not had a happy encounter they were terrified. So my guess and this is just a guess , is they have contacted our government and are allowed to take people in exchange for advancing our technology.

[StackinGreen]

Why do they need us if they have advanced technology? "Allowed" to take people? Doesn't sound like we could stop them, anyway

Doesn't that sound weird to you? It's total BS. Put yourself in my shoes.

[captrobey]

Why do they need us if they have advanced technology? "Allowed" to take people? Doesn't sound like we could stop them, anyway

Doesn't that sound weird to you? It's total BS. Put yourself in my shoes.

I do not know why they take people . If it is experimental or using them for whatever purpose. But no you are probably right if it came to where they wanted to attack there would not be much we could do against them. But then again maybe they can get what they want like this through the government instead of starting a war who knows except the people behind it all.

[Eddy Munny]

First, there's nothing "wrong" in what I said. You feel that it is wrong, so you are upset with me (another emotion) --- because you can't produce evidence. That's a fact. I'm not, and have never been, a person that is unwilling to admit that aliens exist. I admit quite readily that there are UFOs = Unidentified flying objects. That's what they are, unidentified. It is an accurate term. Editorializing it such that aliens exist is silly.

Second, and here is where your emotions betray you more and more, you do result to name-calling, and prove it in this post. I am "dumbed down" and "ill informed" because you can't produce evidence. I've forgotten more science than you know but that doesn't matter, that's all just stupid SBR back-and-forth so each one of us can pound our chests. The problem for you is that I can actually prove that I am more educated and well versed in science and overall educational levels than (statistically) everyone on SBR. Does that mean I know if there are aliens or NOT? Again, of course not. It does show that, however, I'm not "stupid" or stubborn --- quite the contrary --- I'm just looking for a reasonable person to show me how and why they reasonably believe in aliens.

Finally, you appeal to science as being a "dead end argument" for a subject that is based on verification and the physical world. Is your claim not that these ships are real, physical constructs that can be observed? Or are you saying that they are mystical and in the eye of the beholder? You can't have it both ways. If you were talking about uncreated beings like God, that's fine, but you aren't --- your claim is absolutely BASED ON relying on human senses (random people's testimony) to "prove" that aliens exist, and that's an extrapolation. I, again, don't disputed that UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS have existed, but what they are WE DO NOT KNOW.

Every viewpoint I have explained is objective, unemotional, and willing to entertain all the possibilities. You, however, have ascribed godly characteristics to these UFOs and beings you associate with them ("They aren't bound by the senses") ... but based on nothing but your whims.

Just admit that you believe they are godly and thus uncharacterizable and we can stop wasting our time. You can't have it both ways, but you are trying.

That is both silly and more stubborn than I'll ever be.

What is it with you and this whole trip over who's more emotional than the other? What's the end game exactly? It's becoming quite tedious watching you split hairs over the emotional state of myself versus you... You do remember the "random American fatass" comment, correct? Somehow that's unemotional, but "ill-informed" is emotional? Lol, I think you're being overly emotional about the emotional state of this discourse. If it makes you feel any better, I'll fall on the sword and accept these charges of being emotional. Now back to the topic that matters...

Yes, UFO's stands for unidentified flying objects. That's great. You are flying through the first chapter of "UFO's for Dummies." (I know, I know, I know... too emotional for your taste, but you'll get over it.)

But the whole idea behind many UFO cases is that they defy mundane explanation. Once you rule out atmospheric phenomena, airplanes, balloons, birds, hallucinations, military excursions, etc. and couple this with other anomalies such as radioactivity, scrambling of magnetic instruments, eluding radar, exceptional maneuvering capabilities, missile disarmament, time loss etc., well then what you are left with is something otherworldly... be it extraterrestrial or otherwise. Regardless, the implications far exceed mere objects that go unidentified. So the subtext to the UFO phenomena is at the heart of the word, not just the literal interpretation of the acronym itself. I'm surprised they didn't teach you that at your fancy science school.

As for the "scientific proof" well what exactly are you looking for? I mean if a saucer landed in your front lawn, an alien stepped out and planted a pinwheel in your yard, does that constitute "science?" Probably not, but I'm guessing you'd take a whole different approach to the topic from that day forward. Fact of the matter is, there are scores of cases that merit legitimate examination, but absent an alien carcass of some sort, I doubt you'll deem any of them worthy. And the reality is, if an alien carcass or a downed ship were ever recovered, the general public would not be reading about it in any mainstream scientific publications or USA Today.

But the reason why scientific inquiry into the subject is not the end-all-be-all, is because science is and always will be a work in progress. We are the same species that were sure the earth was flat once upon a time. How do you feel about flat-earthers and their sacred "science" now? Well we've come a long way since then but our understanding of the universe is far from complete. Therefore, how can our finite knowledge encapsulate the infinite?

For instance, the multiverse theory states that multiple worlds overlap and occupy the same regions of time and space simultaneously, just like a quantum state. Our reality is tethered to the frequency to which we are attuned, and while it seems that what we experience on this plane is all there is to be experienced, the truth is, other planes of existence parallel ours, the same way that two different radio signals can occupy the same airspace simultaneously. What you perceive on your FM radio correlates directly to which signal you are picking up on the dial.

The point being is that perhaps some UFO's could be interdimensional, and there appearance resulting from a tear in the fabric of our reality, allowing us perceptibility to their existence... akin to a mixed radio signal that broadcasts two channels simultaneously. Now that may sound crazy to most people, but the concept of gravity probably would have been vexing to a Neanderthal.

When I say the universe isn't bound by the senses that constitute the human experience, it's true. That isn't some whimsical flight of fancy, it's just an assertion that what we know, think, see, and so on is just our interpretations of life through our particular lenses. How would life appear through the lens of a pterodactyl, a dolphin, or a snail?

Now I'm not insisting that all UFO's are interdimensional, but leaving that open as a possibility for some. Other cases suggest that they are indeed of more an extraterrestrial nature, based on their behavior and/or physical interaction. What is their objective? Who knows? They could be the equivalent of an interstellar Jane Goodall, simply observing a foreign ecosystem and it's inhabitants.

The fundamental flaw in your thinking, is this idea that human beings are the apex of creation, the hub around which all intelligence manifests. This is most likely a direct consequence of your religious ideology. To each their own.

I tend to think otherwise. We really can't be sure exactly where we rank on the cosmological hierarchy. Fully immersed in their own lives carved into the Tanzanian forests, I'm sure the subjects of Goodall's earnest study, too, felt a sort of proprietary take on their existence... utterly oblivious to any sophisticated advancements in aviation, or the grandiosity of the Taj Mahal, that highlighted the evolution of a species that shared the same planet ​as they, much less beyond.

[StackinGreen]

Eddy, you said:

"But the whole idea behind many UFO cases is that they defy mundane explanation. Once you rule out atmospheric phenomena, airplanes, balloons, birds, hallucinations, military excursions, etc. and couple this with other anomalies such as radioactivity, scrambling of magnetic instruments, eluding radar, exceptional maneuvering capabilities, missile disarmament, time loss etc., well then what you are left with is something otherworldly... be it extraterrestrial or otherwise."

Who says you've ruled those outs? Have you done those tests? You just agree with people who have the same biases, because you've concluded that you already know the answer. My position is that I don't know, and there is no good evidene to support it.


---

And the reality is, if an alien carcass or a downed ship were ever recovered, the general public would not be reading about it in any mainstream scientific publications or USA Today.

This is what conspiracy theorists always do. There's no evidence to convince, so they say no one would ever tell you, anyway (justifying the lack of information or evidence). Think about how stupid it that is. "What I'm saying is true, please believe me" ... but again, sorry, I don't have evidence because of XYZ.

---


For instance, the multiverse theory states ...

I don't dispute that ANYTHING is possible. But if you can't prove it, show it or replicate it, it's just mental masturbation. It's pointless.

---

"When I say the universe isn't bound by the senses that constitute the human experience, it's true."

I agree.

---
"That isn't some whimsical flight of fancy, it's just an assertion that what we know, think, see, and so on is just our interpretations of life through our particular lenses. How would life appear through the lens of a pterodactyl, a dolphin, or a snail?"

Irrelevant point. We are humans discussing what we can understand on our own terms.

There are things out there that are lies, fabrications, and distortions. We don't make excuses for things we know are false, or make up silly explanations that justify people's lies. The point is, we use our capabilities as humans to verify things that are verifiable. Again, if you are saying that aliens are NOT VERIFIABLE, just make your own religion up and I won't argue with that. But that's not your argument and that's where your argument fails, every time.

---

"The fundamental flaw in your thinking, is this idea that human beings are the apex of creation, the hub around which all intelligence manifests. This is most likely a direct consequence of your religious ideology. To each their own."

All the evidence currently shows that of CREATED beings, humans are the apex. It's quite obvious. You can walk around every day, in every place around the world, and show it over and over and over and over again. It's got nothing to do with religion, rather, reality and science in so many different ways. Could ET life be the apex? Sure, but YOU'VE NEVER EVEN SHOWN THEM TO ME, so why should I believe that they are superior? That is YOUR religious ideology, and I'm unsure why it is.

---
I tend to think otherwise. We really can't be sure exactly where we rank on the cosmological hierarchy. Fully immersed in their own lives carved into the Tanzanian forests, I'm sure the subjects of Goodall's earnest study, too, felt a sort of proprietary take on their existence... utterly oblivious to any sophisticated advancements in aviation, or the grandiosity of the Taj Mahal, that highlighted the evolution of a species that shared the same planet ​as they, much less beyond.

According to science and all known things to humans (we are humans and that's all we can talk about) that are exclusively testable in the physical realm, as a MATTER of FACT we are the top living, created being in the cosmos.

[kidcudi92]

ok just checking back in on this thread

little more blunt this time

if you don't believe in some type of alien life you are a fukkin idiot

[jtoler]

Ive never really researched alien stuff but I have some basic questions for any of you Signs(lighthearted) guys who may want to try and answer them.

[StackinGreen]

ok just checking back in on this thread

little more blunt this time

if you don't believe in some type of alien life you are a fukkin idiot

Great post

I've exposed that there is more religious devotion to aliens than those who believe in God, and it's not even close.