[daimoshokage]

Lebron has much better playoff numbers


jesus christ, do we have to go through this again? Lebron scores more, gets way more assists, and rebounds way more than kobe


and dear god, stop with the "lebron only does more cause he's a better athlete"


so what?? Lebron is better period, doesn't matter if its just due to being a much better athlete

[rsnnh12]

So since apparently rings are all that matter, you would agree that Russell is the GOAT, right?

Oh, and

[brahmabull117]

when are you morons gonna realize that championships are a team accomplishment??



Luke Walton has more rings than Lebron, Dominique, Kevin Durant, Karl Malone, Jon Stockton and Steve Nash combined


Is Walton a better player??

[daimoshokage]

...

[bryant81]

when are you morons gonna realize that championships are a team accomplishment??



Luke Walton has more rings than Lebron, Dominique, Kevin Durant, Karl Malone, Jon Stockton and Steve Nash combined


Is Walton a better player??

Rings are overrated when you are comparing mediocre-good players. Rings are not overrated when you are comparing greats.

Last year against Boston (playoffs):

Kobe - 7 games

28.6 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg, 3.8 TOpg


LeBron - 6 games

26.8 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7.2 apg, 4.5 TOpg


So besides the assists, remind me again, what's LeBron WAY better at? Isn't he supposed to score more because he's on a worst team? Isn't he supposed to show up in pivotal games? Isn't he supposed to win even once when he is the favorite coming in (lost to Boston, Orlando having HCA in both)? Two straight MVPs, two years straight with the best regular season record, 7 years straight of falling short. Only player/team to have 2 straight best-records and MVPs and not make the finals.

[brahmabull117]

Rings are overrated when you are comparing mediocre-good players. Rings are not overrated when you are comparing greats.

Last year against Boston (playoffs):

Kobe - 7 games

28.6 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg, 3.8 TOpg


LeBron - 6 games

26.8 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7.2 apg, 4.5 TOpg


So besides the assists, remind me again, what's LeBron WAY better at? Isn't he supposed to score more because he's on a worst team? Isn't he supposed to show up in pivotal games? Isn't he supposed to win even once when he is the favorite coming in (lost to Boston, Orlando having HCA in both)? Two straight MVPs, two years straight with the best regular season record, 7 years straight of falling short. Only player/team to have 2 straight best-records and MVPs and not make the finals.

1)I like how you didn't compare the field goal percentages there


Lebron - 45%
Kobe - 40%


huge difference. Also the passing and rebounding was also a huge difference


so Lebron scored at better efficiency and had much bigger impact on rebounding/passing


2)A lot of Lebron's struggles in the series was due to the fact that Lebron was consistently double teamed


Kobe rarely gets double teamed because he has a superstar laden supporting cast every year



3)that's one series, why don't you look at the overall comparison??



career playoff numbers


Lebron - 29.3 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 7.3 APG.


Kobe - 25.5 PPG 5.2 RPG 4.8 APG

[bryant81]

1)I like how you didn't compare the field goal percentages there


Lebron - 45%
Kobe - 40%


huge difference. Also the passing and rebounding was also a huge difference


so Lebron scored at better efficiency and had much bigger impact on rebounding/passing


2)A lot of Lebron's struggles in the series was due to the fact that Lebron was consistently double teamed


Kobe rarely gets double teamed because he has a superstar laden supporting cast every year



3)that's one series, why don't you look at the overall comparison??



career playoff numbers


Lebron - 29.3 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 7.3 APG.


Kobe - 25.5 PPG 5.2 RPG 4.8 APG

1. If he shot 45%, why didn't he take on a bigger scoring load? It was clear that when his team needed him most, he disappeared like he always does. Also, there was not a huge difference in rebounding as I showed you earlier. Plus, you cannot compare the rebounding of a guard and a forward, they have different roles. Not saying Kobe is a better rebounder but is closer than you think when you factor in their respective positions, size, height. Kidd used to average more rebounds than LeBron. But obviously, LeBron is the better rebounder.

LeBron is the better passer, I will give you that.

2. Kobe doesn't constantly get double teamed? Are you kidding me "brah"?
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nepmd2ygMK4

Yes, it is from 2008. However, these Celtics used the same defensive principles last year as they did in '08 (thank Tom Thibodeau).

If Lebron had a team that helped him win 60+ games for consecutive years, what happened in the playoffs? Don't tell me he didn't have a team because you don't win 60+ games without a team. If he was good enough to win 60+ games without a team (which is certainly untrue), then why could he not win 4 out of 7 games? Or make that 2 out of 4 because he was already up 2-1 on Boston.

3. Yes, that is one series...but it is clearly the most important from last year's playoffs. Does it matter that he averages godly numbers against bottom seeded teams? No, because he goes on to lose against the elites anyway...

[bryant81]

Last year in the Cavs series, Rondo averaged:

20.7 ppg, 11.8 apg, 6.3 rpg , 3.7 TOpg, on 54.1% FG

even those are better numbers than LeBron, who averaged:
26.8 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 7.2 apg, 4.5 TOpg, on 45% FG

Once again, numbers do not tell the whole story.

[brahmabull117]

1. If he shot 45%, why didn't he take on a bigger scoring load? It was clear that when his team needed him most, he disappeared like he always does. Also, there was not a huge difference in rebounding as I showed you earlier. Plus, you cannot compare the rebounding of a guard and a forward, they have different roles. Not saying Kobe is a better rebounder but is closer than you think when you factor in their respective positions, size, height. Kidd used to average more rebounds than LeBron. But obviously, LeBron is the better rebounder.

LeBron is the better passer, I will give you that.

2. Kobe doesn't constantly get double teamed? Are you kidding me "brah"?
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nepmd2ygMK4

Yes, it is from 2008. However, these Celtics used the same defensive principles last year as they did in '08 (thank Tom Thibodeau).

If Lebron had a team that helped him win 60+ games for consecutive years, what happened in the playoffs? Don't tell me he didn't have a team because you don't win 60+ games without a team. If he was good enough to win 60+ games without a team (which is certainly untrue), then why could he not win 4 out of 7 games? Or make that 2 out of 4 because he was already up 2-1 on Boston.

3. Yes, that is one series...but it is clearly the most important from last year's playoffs. Does it matter that he averages godly numbers against bottom seeded teams? No, because he goes on to lose against the elites anyway...

here's the reality of the situation with Lebron James playoff history


every time he would face a team like Boston or Orlando, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players on the court were all on the opposing team


Lebron would fight and put up big numbers but still lose due to the inferiority of the rest of his team


Look what happened last year in game 7. Kobe had a fukking atrocious game and Lakers still won. If Lebron plays like that in the playoffs, Cavs lose by 30


the guy is better than bryant in every way. Only the fukking morons out there who are obsessed with championships think that Kobe is a better player than Lebron


he's not as efficient, he's not as dominant and he doesn't do as much in passing/rebounding/all around playmaking as Lebron




Saying that kobe is better than lebron because of the 5 rings would be like saying Emmith Smith was a better RB than Barry Sanders because of the difference in championship. (In football, everybody knows that's retarded, but for some reason it's a legitimate way of reasoning in basketball)

[brahmabull117]

Once again, numbers do not tell the whole story.

god this is such a bunch of fukking horsesh!t


THE ONLY REASON LAKERS WON THE TITLE LAST YEAR IS BECAUSE OF ALL THE AROUND TALENT AROUND KOBE



he didn't even play well in the finals. 40% FG shooting?? that's fukking awful, yea he scored 27 ppg but he needed 24 shots a game to do it. Those are allen iverson numbers


Lebron is better in every way. I just want somebody out there to make a legitimate argument without relying on championships

[bryant81]

god this is such a bunch of fukking horsesh!t


THE ONLY REASON LAKERS WON THE TITLE LAST YEAR IS BECAUSE OF ALL THE AROUND TALENT AROUND KOBE



he didn't even play well in the finals. 40% FG shooting?? that's fukking awful, yea he scored 27 ppg but he needed 24 shots a game to do it. Those are allen iverson numbers


Lebron is better in every way. I just want somebody out there to make a legitimate argument without relying on championships

Kobe was not the only player with talent around him last year. Look at Dallas, Spurs, Celtics, Orlando. Yet, Kobe found a way to win even against playing one of the most balanced teams in the league (C's). Having talent around you does not automatically amount to championships. Not sure what makes you think that. Watch LeBron this year, he wont make it past Boston. Then you will not be able to use "his team" as an excuse. Kobe was not the only one who shot poorly from the field that game. PP shot 5-15 for 18 points, Ray 3-14 for 13 points, Rondo 6-13 for 14 points, Sheed 5-11 for 11 points, KG 8-13 for 17 points (just 3 rebounds). Gasol went 6-16 for 19 points, Artest 7-18 for 20 points, Odom 3-8 for 7 points. Kobe shot 6-24 for 23 points. Point is, nearly every player in that game scored a point per shot and that is not overly shocking considering it is game 7 in the NBA finals in the most heated rivalry in league history. Had Kobe shot 6-24 while the rest of the team shot a good percentage, that would make you wonder. But no, as a team, the Lakers shot 32% from the field in the game (it was like 27% in the first half iirc).

Anyways, I wasn't comparing Lebron and Kobe on championships, not once did I even mention Kobe's rings until this post. It's not like LeBron didnt have talent around him. He had Jamison, Mo Will, Z, Vareajo, Shaq, Parker, West, Gibson. While they aren't the greatest players, the team gelled because the system was perfect. LeBron could do what he wanted and always had consistent 3 point shooters around him. Take those shooters away and LeBron would be a joke. That is one thing Kobe does not have. Shooters. Teams clog the lanes against LA because they know outside shooting is their weakness. You could not do that to Cavs because sharpshooters like Mo, Parker, West, and Gibson would make you pay. Give LeBron "shooters" like Kobe had and I'd bet it would be a lot easier to guard him. Why? Because outside shooting is his weakness.

[Rolo1984]

Kobe was not the only player with talent around him last year. Look at Dallas, Spurs, Celtics, Orlando. Yet, Kobe found a way to win even against playing one of the most balanced teams in the league (C's). Having talent around you does not automatically amount to championships. Not sure what makes you think that. Watch LeBron this year, he wont make it past Boston. Then you will not be able to use "his team" as an excuse. Kobe was not the only one who shot poorly from the field that game. PP shot 5-15 for 18 points, Ray 3-14 for 13 points, Rondo 6-13 for 14 points, Sheed 5-11 for 11 points, KG 8-13 for 17 points (just 3 rebounds). Gasol went 6-16 for 19 points, Artest 7-18 for 20 points, Odom 3-8 for 7 points. Kobe shot 6-24 for 23 points. Point is, nearly every player in that game scored a point per shot and that is not overly shocking considering it is game 7 in the NBA finals in the most heated rivalry in league history. Had Kobe shot 6-24 while the rest of the team shot a good percentage, that would make you wonder. But no, as a team, the Lakers shot 32% from the field in the game (it was like 27% in the first half iirc).

Anyways, I wasn't comparing Lebron and Kobe on championships, not once did I even mention Kobe's rings until this post. It's not like LeBron didnt have talent around him. He had Jamison, Mo Will, Z, Vareajo, Shaq, Parker, West, Gibson. While they aren't the greatest players, the team gelled because the system was perfect. LeBron could do what he wanted and always had consistent 3 point shooters around him. Take those shooters away and LeBron would be a joke. That is one thing Kobe does not have. Shooters. Teams clog the lanes against LA because they know outside shooting is their weakness. You could not do that to Cavs because sharpshooters like Mo, Parker, West, and Gibson would make you pay. Give LeBron "shooters" like Kobe had and I'd bet it would be a lot easier to guard him. Why? Because outside shooting is his weakness.

I am no expert but this reasoning is flawed. IF kobe is the best player he should shoot better than the rest of the team including the opponent. That all other players in the game failed to put up decent number doesnt give bryant an excuse to shoot bad as well. If you are the best player you should perform better than that.

That the opponent shot bad is probably the reason they won. Still, the fact they won even though kobe shot bad suggests a decent supporting cast. Again no expert just looking into the reasoning

[crustyme]

jordan also shot 40% in 2 finals, so i guess hes overrated also?

lebron shot 35% in his only finals appearance where they were swept.

rings dont make careers but elevates them from great to legendary.

[Tree Rollins]

Since he isn't better then Jordan, he's overrated?

The fact that people feel the need to defend Jordan in comparison to Kobe says a lot.

[brahmabull117]

Kobe was not the only player with talent around him last year. Look at Dallas, Spurs, Celtics, Orlando. Yet, Kobe found a way to win even against playing one of the most balanced teams in the league (C's). Having talent around you does not automatically amount to championships. Not sure what makes you think that. Watch LeBron this year, he wont make it past Boston. Then you will not be able to use "his team" as an excuse. Kobe was not the only one who shot poorly from the field that game. PP shot 5-15 for 18 points, Ray 3-14 for 13 points, Rondo 6-13 for 14 points, Sheed 5-11 for 11 points, KG 8-13 for 17 points (just 3 rebounds). Gasol went 6-16 for 19 points, Artest 7-18 for 20 points, Odom 3-8 for 7 points. Kobe shot 6-24 for 23 points. Point is, nearly every player in that game scored a point per shot and that is not overly shocking considering it is game 7 in the NBA finals in the most heated rivalry in league history. Had Kobe shot 6-24 while the rest of the team shot a good percentage, that would make you wonder. But no, as a team, the Lakers shot 32% from the field in the game (it was like 27% in the first half iirc).

Anyways, I wasn't comparing Lebron and Kobe on championships, not once did I even mention Kobe's rings until this post. It's not like LeBron didnt have talent around him. He had Jamison, Mo Will, Z, Vareajo, Shaq, Parker, West, Gibson. While they aren't the greatest players, the team gelled because the system was perfect. LeBron could do what he wanted and always had consistent 3 point shooters around him. Take those shooters away and LeBron would be a joke. That is one thing Kobe does not have. Shooters. Teams clog the lanes against LA because they know outside shooting is their weakness. You could not do that to Cavs because sharpshooters like Mo, Parker, West, and Gibson would make you pay. Give LeBron "shooters" like Kobe had and I'd bet it would be a lot easier to guard him. Why? Because outside shooting is his weakness.

alright let's cut all the crap and get to the bottom line here


what is it that Kobe is better at than Lebron?? I wanna hear it


is it scoring?? (lebron scores more at a higher percentage)


is it finishing around the rim ?? (this one is a joke obviously)


is it 3 point shooting?? (basically the same if you look at career numbers)


is it passing and rebounding?? (another joke)


is it clutch shooting?? (another fukking joke - Kobe's clutch playoff numbers are absolutely horrendous at 6/22 in late game tying/winning shots)


I mean there is literally NOTHING, I mean NOTHING that kobe does better than Lebron



Lebron is better than Kobe in every way

[brahmabull117]

Since he isn't better then Jordan, he's overrated?

The fact that people feel the need to defend Jordan in comparison to Kobe says a lot.

he's not better than Shaq
he's not better than Wilt
he's not better than Lebron
he's not better than MJ

[Rolo1984]

dont think you can compare athletes from different ages. The games changes. Nowadays every sport has become much more professional. Although i think it is much more difficult to stand out nowadays than it was 20 years ago

[crustyme]

kobe has 26 career game winners (more than even jordan), 6 last season alone. how many does lebron have?

kobe has whats called intangibles. first of all, he makes his teammates better. pau gasol couldnt win a single playoff game in memphis (0-12) but now winning championships. he even carried kwame brown and smush parker to back to back playoff appearances. last i heard smush was playing in a chinese league cause he wasnt good enough to make it as backup and he started for the lakers!

lebron had so much talent around him last season. 4 teammates who had been all stars. kobe? just 1, gasol.

and of course kobe is clutch. he doesnt shy away from clutch shots like lebrick who is 1-9 this season on shots to tie or win.

[jsmithj88]

i agree with bull in the majority of his views. lebron is a better all around talent whether people want to accept that or not. kobe is a better pure scorer. those are the main diffences in the 2.

[bryant81]

If he's not clutch, then how come in the 2008 Olympics, they went to Kobe down the stretch of a close game in the finals? The same team with Bron, Wade, Melo, yet they go to Kobe even when Wade was lighting it up that game.

[rsnnh12]

kobe has 26 career game winners (more than even jordan), 6 last season alone. how many does lebron have?

kobe has whats called intangibles. first of all, he makes his teammates better. pau gasol couldnt win a single playoff game in memphis (0-12) but now winning championships. he even carried kwame brown and smush parker to back to back playoff appearances. last i heard smush was playing in a chinese league cause he wasnt good enough to make it as backup and he started for the lakers!

lebron had so much talent around him last season. 4 teammates who had been all stars. kobe? just 1, gasol.

and of course kobe is clutch. he doesnt shy away from clutch shots like lebrick who is 1-9 this season on shots to tie or win.

Kobe is 6/21 in the playoffs in game-winning/tying shots... 28.5%... clutch?

[brahmabull117]

kobe has 26 career game winners (more than even jordan), 6 last season alone. how many does lebron have?

kobe has whats called intangibles. first of all, he makes his teammates better. pau gasol couldnt win a single playoff game in memphis (0-12) but now winning championships. he even carried kwame brown and smush parker to back to back playoff appearances. last i heard smush was playing in a chinese league cause he wasnt good enough to make it as backup and he started for the lakers!

lebron had so much talent around him last season. 4 teammates who had been all stars. kobe? just 1, gasol.

and of course kobe is clutch. he doesnt shy away from clutch shots like lebrick who is 1-9 this season on shots to tie or win.

1)LOL @ Kobe being clutch. Kobe's career numbers in game winning or tying shots is absolutely HORRENDOUS (30% in regular season, 27% in playoffs)


he's got 26 game winners, but that's cause he's got about 80 misses



2)LOL @ Makes teammates better. Kobe has always had subpar court vision for the amount of times he's on the floor and how often he has the ball. He's just not a good passer and never has been.




3)LOL @ Kobe making gasol better. You realize Gasol's scoring numbers have dropped since he joined the Lakers?? he hasn't done sh!t for Gasol. The only reason Pau didn't win in Memphis is because he was on a bad team. He's always been a great player



4)LOL @ Lebron having stars around him

is that why they're gonna lose like 60 games this year without him?


Lebron had a bunch of scrubs, has beens and never was type players on the team and he got them pretty deep in the playoffs


the 2 or 3 seasons where Kobe played with scrubs, his teams had an average record and were beaten in the first round in the playoffs

[Cap dat 4ss]

Kobe is the best player on the best team. He will go down as the greatest player in the history of NBA.

[brahmabull117]

i agree with bull in the majority of his views. lebron is a better all around talent whether people want to accept that or not. kobe is a better pure scorer. those are the main diffences in the 2.

1)If you wanna argue that kobe is a more skilled player on offense, that's fine


but in terms of being a dominating and efficient scorer, Lebron is the GOAT outside of michael jordan at the guard/small forward position


the reason of course being that Lebron is a wayyyyyyyyyy better pure athlete (which compensates for his sometimes unpolished offensive skills)


2)Lebron is a better all around player by a mile

[brahmabull117]

Kobe is the best player on the best team. He will go down as the greatest player in the history of NBA.

1)MJ
2)Wilt
3)Lebron


that's gonna be your real top 3 list of all time when it's all said and done



Lebron's game is revolutionary, a hybrid of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson


Kobe is just another good scorer who doesn't contribute much outside of scoring

[jsmithj88]

kobe has 26 career game winners (more than even jordan), 6 last season alone. how many does lebron have? kobe has whats called intangibles. first of all, he makes his teammates better. pau gasol couldnt win a single playoff game in memphis (0-12) but now winning championships. he even carried kwame brown and smush parker to back to back playoff appearances. last i heard smush was playing in a chinese league cause he wasnt good enough to make it as backup and he started for the lakers! lebron had so much talent around him last season. 4 teammates who had been all stars. kobe? just 1, gasol. and of course kobe is clutch. he doesnt shy away from clutch shots like lebrick who is 1-9 this season on shots to tie or win.

i dont care wat the numbers are, i would rather kobe take a game winning shot than lebron. why wouldnt u want the better shooter and scorer to take the final shot?

did kobe make pau a better player? that is debatable. i dont remember the lakers going back to the finals UNTIL PAU GOT TRADED TO THE LAKERS. until that point, KOBE WANTED TO BE TRADED..... pau was an all star player before he got to the lakers. he led the grizzles to 50 win seasons and division titles, so lets not play it off like pau was a scrub that kobe turned into a great player. pau is a franchise player. dont people remember the outrage when the lakers got him for a bag of cookies?

kobe carried his shit team to the playoffs, lebron carried his shit team to the nba finals
which is the better accomplishment?

come on dude, how well did those 4 all stars do without lebron this year? 16 wins, none of them could stay healthy either ............

[BrewVegas]

kobe has 26 career game winners (more than even jordan), 6 last season alone. how many does lebron have?

kobe has whats called intangibles. first of all, he makes his teammates better. pau gasol couldnt win a single playoff game in memphis (0-12) but now winning championships. he even carried kwame brown and smush parker to back to back playoff appearances. last i heard smush was playing in a chinese league cause he wasnt good enough to make it as backup and he started for the lakers!

lebron had so much talent around him last season. 4 teammates who had been all stars. kobe? just 1, gasol.

and of course kobe is clutch. he doesnt shy away from clutch shots like lebrick who is 1-9 this season on shots to tie or win.

Strongly disagree here. Lebron has far more intangibles than Kobe. He's a natural leader whereas Kobe is not. Go read Coach K's book about coaching the gold medal team. He states that not only was Lebron the leader of the team, he's the most natural leader that Coach K has ever coached.

[brahmabull117]

i dont care wat the numbers are, i would rather kobe take a game winning shot than lebron. why wouldnt u want the better shooter and scorer to take the final shot?

how is kobe a better scorer or shooter brah??



their 3 point and midrange percentages are about the same



lebron scores a lot more at a higher efficiency though because he's a much better interior penetrator and finisher

[jsmithj88]

how is kobe a better scorer or shooter brah?? their 3 point and midrange percentages are about the same lebron scores a lot more at a higher efficiency though because he's a much better interior penetrator and finisher

this is a situation where u are looking too much into the numbers.
i have seen numbers are for both of them, and i could care less
is lebron a better player? yes he is
but if if the game is on the line, the ball is going to kobe, case closed.

[brahmabull117]

this is a situation where u are looking too much into the numbers.
i have seen numbers are for both of them, and i could care less
is lebron a better player? yes he is
but if if the game is on the line, the ball is going to kobe, case closed.

so your opinion >>>>>> facts ?

[YOUNGBUCK]

Weird how no one has commented on my jordan w/o pippen comment jordan nothing without him and the fact ppl are bringin up odom is hilarious he disappears in games biggest waste of talent in the nba since he entered always been talked up so hyped jordan was a f\*g and still is sweet earring iverson was better and lebron is a choke artist and 5-9? Hes missed more than 4 this year

[MadMajor]

i dont get why we always have to compare anyone to the best and bash these players . Kobe is a great player. What does jordan have to do with him?

[rsnnh12]

Weird how no one has commented on my jordan w/o pippen comment jordan nothing without him and the fact ppl are bringin up odom is hilarious he disappears in games biggest waste of talent in the nba since he entered always been talked up so hyped jordan was a f\*g and still is sweet earring iverson was better and lebron is a choke artist and 5-9? Hes missed more than 4 this year

That's in the playoffs. Lebron is 5-9 with last shot game-tyers/winners, Kobe is 6-21

[crustyme]

just because you take a lot of clutch shots doesnt mean you make a lot. just look at lebricks 1-for-9 this season with a chance to win or tie.

kobes misses didnt hurt the team from winning 5 championships, did it?

kobe doesnt make teammates better? who else has carried smush and kwame to the playoffs? not even jordan could do it with kwame. yet kobe had the lakers in 1st place (15 games over .500) with kwame at center when they traded for gasol.

pau gasol was a good player but wasnt tough or knew how to win. kobe taught him that. intangibles isnt about stats, even though gasol never got double digit rebounds with memphis as he has with lakers. plus his rebounding, defense and work ethic improved.

lebron had mo who was an all star the previous season, shaq who was an all star previous season, jamison who was having an all star season at 21ppg 9rpg, ilgauskas who was a 2 time all star, the underrated varejao who was a great defender and who was avg'd a double double this season.

you dont win 60+ games without great teammates, not even jordan could manage to win more than 40 without pippen.

meanwhile kobe had smush, kwame, odom, walton and mihm. 0 combined all star appearances. yet made the playoffs in back to back seasons. would lebron have? no because he had a similar bad cast his first two seasons and couldnt make the playoffs.

if you had $1,000,000 riding on a game and it came down to the final shot, who would you rather have shoot it, lebron or kobe? exactly.

[crustyme]

gasols memphis teams were bad?

shane battier
bobby jackson
eddie jones
mike miller
damon stoudamire
lorenzen wright

those are solid supporting cast yet gasol never won a single playoff game. now hes winning championships thanks to kobe.