[dimer525]

Greetings to all the SBR community.
I'm reading this forum for a long time but had no reasons to write here. Unfortunately, i got one a couple of days ago.
More than month ago i've registered at 5Dimes because of A+ rating given to them by SBR.
A five days ago 5Dimes blocked my account with a short message: "Talk to TONY".
My English is good enough only for making a bets, so i asked a friend of mine to translate this post for me.
I tried to talk to Tony but the conversation was not very useful because Tony was blaming me that i'm a thief and frauder, asking me a ritorical questions about what he's supposed to do with me and insulting me constantly. That "Big Boss" ignored all my attempts to ask him what really happened. I don't know whether he's really a "Big" or "Little" boss but he indeed doesn't know what does "politeness" word mean.


Looking at my recent bets (see the list below), i suspect that they blocked my account because of game i made the last bet to was moved to an earlier time. I just came from work, looked at the odds line at 5Dimes and made my bet. Next day my account was blocked without explanation.

Noone in industry does like that. 5Dime's rating is obviuosly fake. How can i get my money back? Of course i don't claim to get the money i won in that last two bets (because i respect Fair Play) but Tony stole all my money i had in my account and he is calling me a thief after that!

[shaunovery]

what country are you from

[dimer525]

Russia

[shaunovery]

maybe because they thought you wee tying to gain an advantage

did they give you a reason not to Pay you

[traxmub]

This guy placed bet after start game.

[fedex11204]

It's funny that Tony only has problems with sheisters like this guy who knowingly places bets after the game has started

[BranchDavidian]

This guy placed bet after start game.

So what? According to SBR and Heritage, books leave lines up after the start of games all the time --nothing wrong with it. The books then get to sit back and decide the next day whether or not they "meant" to leave it up, or whether, in their opinion, the customer decided upon his bet based upon occurrences that had developed in-play ( which will always be the case in a past-post incident ). Amazingly SBR is making one ridiculous ruling after another.
Heritage Complain


pokerwhiz90 <dl class="pagination" id="pagination_threadbit_2313198"><dd> 1 2 3 ... 6 </dd></dl>

It is a long read, and this revelation that books should be allowed to free-roll players does not show up until the latter pages. And to illustrate more of SBR's ridiculous rulings lately, take a look at this one where SBR decides it is OK for a book to decide, the next day, that the previous day's line had been calculated using incorrect information -- and to void winning bets even tho the odds that they had published were the same as the rest of the industry. Bwin Won't Pay Out on Winning Bet


stocky699

[djefferis]

How long have you been with 5D?

Looking at your provided history, looks like the 2 wagers in question are around your normal wager amount and then an immediate second wager for 2x that amount (apologies, I am on my phone and cant see small details well).

Since you acknowledge past posting a bet (accidentally) - the book is within their rights to suspend wagering. Especially if its a sport you never bet before, and a non major sport where suddenly a player I betting his entire balance on a winning side accidentally.

Again, dont know all of the details..cant see your history or the complete story here..but bottom line, you are owed your balance prior to these bets upon clearing of the deposit and 5D is within their rights to refuse your business.

Now, if youve been caught at this before and resigned up under a different name or something..another matter. Confiscation is within reasonable rights in my opinion. Again, I dont know your story..but I know of past cases where this was an issue. File the complaint and allow SBR to investigate.

Not that I dont believe your side, only it is just that..1 sided. Tony may come out with a completely different take away from your conversation..and you have to acknowledge there have been many issues with fraud and Russian bettors in the past, so there skepticism is founded..even if misdirected towards you.

[katstale]

Not fully awake yet and just now getting my Duran down, but this thread needs more Tony quotes. I imagine this will be resolved quickly with you getting your money back minus the bad bet and your demise at Dimes.

[FairPlayBet]

Let's assume that he knew that the game started and he tried to take advantage from it. So what. 5dimes can void bets in question, they can close his accounts too, this is their rights but they can't keep his money he won fairly before that. This is my opinion.
And please stop with bullshit about past fraudsters from Russia. Do you know how big country Russia is and how many bettors are there? If there have been cases in the past, that does not necessarily mean that every Russian is fraudster.

[teaz2win]

Seems like we are seeing this more and more... people deliberately past posting. I wonder if there will be a rules change coming? As was argued on another thread with this exact same MO.... atleast that guy only had his risk lost.. this guy had his account closed and money confiscated. Unfortunately for the OP Tony pretty much does what Tony wants to do. OP you have a long hard battle in front of you... If you have been reading posts here for a long time why would you try and take a shot at 5 dimes ..... you must have seen how Tony deals with this kinda of stuff.

[chilidog]

OP tried to steal Tony's money. Tony is just returning the favor. What's fair is fair.

[daringly]

If it was an accident, tell him and apologize. If this is the only time it happened, he will probably reinstate your account.

[sweep]

If it was an accident, tell him and apologize. If this is the only time it happened, he will probably reinstate your account.

Yeah when fukkin pigs fly bro..............

[teaz2win]

If it was an accident, tell him and apologize. If this is the only time it happened, he will probably reinstate your account.

Daringly you haven't done your homework on Tony

[matthew919]

Daringly you haven't done your homework on Tony

I'm pretty sure daringly has done more homework in a week than anyone here has done in their lifetime. Although I have to say, the more 5D complaints I'm hearing these days, the less I want to play there.

[Smoke]

Just tell tony you worship the ground he walks on and he will reinstate your account

[looneytunes]

seems this is same thread as one on 4/26?

[LT Profits]

I'm pretty sure daringly has done more homework in a week than anyone here has done in their lifetime. Although I have to say, the more 5D complaints I'm hearing these days, the less I want to play there.

Apparently many posters don't know who daringly is.

[BranchDavidian]

I'm pretty sure daringly has done more homework in a week than anyone here has done in their lifetime. Although I have to say, the more 5D complaints I'm hearing these days, the less I want to play there.

Absolutely correct. daringly ( Justin7 ) is probably the most knowledgeable guy around. But he is not infallible. He also thinks that sportsbooks are allowed to re-think their decision making process the next day to decide whether or not they "meant" to leave the line up after the game started, or if they left it up by accident. He says Heritage does nothing wrong when they wait til the next day to decide if they want to keep wagers active or void them.
See
04-27-13 09:18 PM #140
daringly

Become A Pro! Join Date: 08-10-05
Posts: 40
betpoints: 546

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Issue #1: May a Sportsbook leave a line up after the match has begun?
Answer: Yes. Books have been doing this for years.

Issue #2: Must a Sportsbook void a wager that is slightly past-posted?
Answer: No, they are not required to. Many sportsbooks have left odds up after a long event starts, especially if the book believes the odds have not materially changed.

Issue#3: May a Sportsbook void a wager that is slightly past-posted?
Answer: Yes, if they did not intend to leave the market up when the wager was bet. Only the book can say what they intended, so they have a pretty wide latitude of when to void a slightly past-posted wager, as long as they are consistent.

You should draw two things from this dispute:
A. Heritage has done nothing wrong here; and
B. If you past-post a book, you are giving them a legal free-roll against you. ( ( Please pretend that I was able to get a new paragraph in here ). By the way, Heritage's rules state that all past posted wagers are invalid.
noyb

Become A Pro! Join Date: 09-13-05
Posts: 900
betpoints: 4037

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Originally Posted by Jayvegas420
These are general rules that books generally use.
Aren't these the same rules that Heritage uses?



every book has different rules of course.

Heritage:
"A bet made after an event begins based on occurrences that have developed while in-play, is considered a 'past-post' and therefore invalid. This applies for all regular game lines or when play resumes in live wagering. All events intended for in-play offering will be noted as such on the wagering option. The same applies for all horse bets, they must be placed before post time or are invalid."

whatever way you look at it, this bet should have been voided from the start.

Therefore, since all past-posted wagers are invalid --- how does the book get to decide when it wants to collect losing bets and when it wants to void winning ones?

[matthew919]

This really is a gray area in my eyes. I think any reasonable person though, would avoid making any past-posted wagers out of an abundance of caution. I'm not giving the books a free pass, but as a consumer, why would you take that risk in the first place?

If the original poster's situation really was an accident, then that's a tough call. How do you prove it's an accident or not? I think a clearer, simpler policy for books to adopt is the voiding of any and all past-posted wagers, regardless of outcome. As a customer, that makes me feel safer betting at that book, for a number of reasons.

[elgreco]

Let's assume that he knew that the game started and he tried to take advantage from it. So what. 5dimes can void bets in question, they can close his accounts too, this is their rights but they can't keep his money he won fairly before that. This is my opinion.

I fully agree with this. I can't understand the posters who are inferring that the outright seizure of all his funds is fair.

[BranchDavidian]

This really is a gray area in my eyes. I think any reasonable person though, would avoid making any past-posted wagers out of an abundance of caution. I'm not giving the books a free pass, but as a consumer, why would you take that risk in the first place?

If the original poster's situation really was an accident, then that's a tough call. How do you prove it's an accident or not? I think a clearer, simpler policy for books to adopt is the voiding of any and all past-posted wagers, regardless of outcome. As a customer, that makes me feel safer betting at that book, for a number of reasons.

That is precisely what books have written into their rulebooks, just as Heritage has. But now, Heritage and SBR think that the book has a right to free-roll players by ignoring their rules stating past-posted wagers are invalid, and deciding the next day whether or not they want to accept past-posted wagers. This just amazes me --- I don't get how intelligent people cannot understand the clear meaning of " a bet placed after an event has begun is considered past-post and therefore invalid."

[mighty maron]

I dont think its a matter of the books freerolling customers as much as cost savings in terms of manpower. 5dimes offers a wide range of wagers on a plethora of events(a reason that people list as playing there). IMO the events and their starting times are listed correctly. When an event decides to push up the starting time frequently their is no one manning the ship at 5dimes, Heritage, or wherever.

Its either taking these rare occurances case by case or adding on more people and having the book pass the cost onto every player in increased fees on cashouts.....

I agree that if the op does not have a history of doing this..a very contrite apology will suffice

I would rather be forced to be humble and get my money then feed my ego at the expense of bankroll

[matthew919]

Yeah, I agree that it's garbage if it's stated in the book's own rules, although maron brings up a good point about a book not being able to be everywhere at once. Which again reinforces the fact that the customer should be on the ball, and refrain from making those kinds of bets in the first place.

[onemoregoal]

Ridiculous behavior from the book.

[BranchDavidian]

Yeah, I agree that it's garbage if it's stated in the book's own rules, although maron brings up a good point about a book not being able to be everywhere at once. Which again reinforces the fact that the customer should be on the ball, and refrain from making those kinds of bets in the first place.

If the book voids all past-posted wagers, as they state they will, then there is no problem.

[mighty maron]

Yeah, I agree that it's garbage if it's stated in the book's own rules, although maron brings up a good point about a book not being able to be everywhere at once. Which again reinforces the fact that the customer should be on the ball, and refrain from making those kinds of bets in the first place.

The public never/rarely hears from the people that have had their balances restored or whatever good actions that Tony may do. Posting in the forums is a nuclear option when all other reasonable actions in a dispute have been taken....

[benandjerry]

Yeah, I agree that it's garbage if it's stated in the book's own rules, although maron brings up a good point about a book not being able to be everywhere at once. Which again reinforces the fact that the customer should be on the ball, and refrain from making those kinds of bets in the first place.

I understand on certain events like tennis that it could maybe happen at rare occurances, where the start time is so very frequently adjusted, but are you otherwise saying that a sportsbook shouldnt be able to easily implement a system to automatically take lines offline at start time of an event?

[matthew919]

Tennis is not the only sport where that sort of thing happens. Think about smaller markets where start times may change, but the word travels slowly.

[cloverfield]

I usually make a habit of checking the status of the game I am going to wager on...if it's a more foreign game.

What happens in the event I login to 5Dimes and simply see a game that starts in 10 mins according to their lines, so I wager on it, and come to find out the game started 20 mins prior to my wager....and 5Dimes had the wrong time???

I understand on certain events like tennis that it could maybe happen at rare occurances, where the start time is so very frequently adjusted, but are you otherwise saying that a sportsbook shouldnt be able to easily implement a system to automatically take lines offline at start time of an event?

the problem is not with automated software. on a lot of foreign league basketball games for example, when you are dealing with many different timezones they often have the wrong start time entered.
the problem is with the clerks/linesman entering in the start time wrong...so it doesn't matter if there is software to remove it after the entered start time...when that is wrong itself.

[tto827]

Should be interesting to see how this one plays out. Tony may keep this guys money, he really doesn't care, he does what he thinks is fair, and usually it is fair.

How hard is it to void past-post wagers, and if you think the client was trying to take a shot, then boot him for it. I don't see why this is so hard.

[BigDaddy]

Apparently many posters don't know who daringly is.

who is he?

[tto827]

who is he?

Justin7.

[SBR Forum]

There was a Russian basketball match that started earlier than scheduled. We know at least one other player has since received his balance that also benefited from the error - all he did was admit that his bet was late and ask to be paid the rest of his funds. That's all you need to do unless there's something else you haven't went into.