[benandjerry]

Tennis is not the only sport where that sort of thing happens. Think about smaller markets where start times may change, but the word travels slowly.

I know, but first that came to mind, and probably biggest and most common. If you cant keep up, why not take it off the board at advertised start time? Problem solved.

Its rare that an event actually starts earlier than advertised (without announcing it in good time), if it does, then I guess it just is what it is.

the problem is not with automated software. on a lot of foreign league basketball games for example, when you are dealing with many different timezones they often have the wrong start time entered.
the problem is with the clerks/linesman entering in the start time wrong...so it doesn't matter if there is software to remove it after the entered start time...when that is wrong itself.

OK, so you're saying a linesman shouldnt be qualified to enter correct start times because of different time zones? Its not rocket science. Sounds like you're grasping at straws.

There was a Russian basketball match that started earlier than scheduled. We know at least one other player has since received his balance that also benefited from the error - all he did was admit that his bet was late and ask to be paid the rest of his funds. That's all you need to do unless there's something else you haven't went into.

I'm obviously not referring to the situation at hand. If a game already started (and specifically earlier as was the case here) and a player takes an obvious shot at a book, then thats not ok by any means.

[cloverfield]

OK, so you're saying a linesman shouldnt be qualified to enter correct start times because of different time zones? Its not rocket science. Sounds like you're grasping at straws.

What? I'm saying exactly that. There are entry errors A LOT OF THE TIME WITH FOREIGN MATCHES. This doesn't happen in MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, etc. The people making the entries ARE INPUTTING THEM WRONG. I'm not saying the linesman is JUSTIFIED..I'm saying that errors are going to happen when you're offering lines on Russian, Slovenian, Ukrainian, Croatian, etc. basketball games.

The other question I asked in my response is HOW IS IT THE USERS FAULT if they log in and bet on a line that happens to have already started...but they honestly could not have known. I'm not talking about instances where there is plenty of proof of shady dealings...I'm talking about a game just like this... A Russian start time was inputted incorrectly..someone logged in and wagered on it. Unless he has a history of doing this and he didn't wager 50x his normal wager...it's not his fault.

Sportsbooks should (if they dont already) have a note in accounts where they can input the amount of times a user posts a play late. It defies logic that it would happen 3-5 times in a month...then you know somethings up.
If it happens once in a while I would give the benefit of the doubt to the player..esp. if it's foreign games.

[Larkfield]

If its a first offense then the bet should have been cancelled. For a second offense, I have no problem with what Tony did....

I will say that its a little shady going back and betting a game twice. Makes me think that the player knew what he did...

My 2 cents...

[Russian Rocket]

Dimer talk to Tony politely and admit to the guilt - put your pride aside if you wanna get your money back.
Nazdarovie!

[dmiles1021]

this is why you should play at youwager...no bullshit over there.

[harvesters]

So 5d isn't regulated, and could care less what industry groups like sbr think, answer to no one, tells players that they are going to send guys to players houses to get their money back and are one of the few books that take american players when the Feds are on the prowl. Am I the only one who sees this ending both badly and shortly?

[noyb]

i've made many past-posts in my betting career without me knowing it. i've even placed a bet once on an outcome that had already lost. as long as i could prove it was a past post, every single book has always refunded me, winner or loser, without ever questioning my motives for placing the bet in the first place. the only way it should be and it's what 99% of sportsbooks do on a regular basis.. there's no justification for that 1% who just do what suits them best.

[ADR51]

So 5d isn't regulated, and could care less what industry groups like sbr think, answer to no one, tells players that they are going to send guys to players houses to get their money back and are one of the few books that take american players when the Feds are on the prowl. Am I the only one who sees this ending both badly and shortly?

Exactly!!! They respond to no one and are only regulated by costarican government. Anybody doesnt like it it's simple, dont play there. They dont care about the opinions in this or any other forum. As far as the telling customers that they will send someone to collect that is BS, they just say shit like that to let the customers know they could care less about their treats

[BranchDavidian]

i've made many past-posts in my betting career without me knowing it. i've even placed a bet once on an outcome that had already lost. as long as i could prove it was a past post, every single book has always refunded me, winner or loser, without ever questioning my motives for placing the bet in the first place. the only way it should be and it's what 99% of sportsbooks do on a regular basis.. there's no justification for that 1% who just do what suits them best.

I'm not so sure that it is only 1% since we know that Heritage will also leave lines up after the start of a game, only to wait and determine later on if they "meant" to leave it up. At least here, 5dimes is not claiming the right to wait until after the games to decide whether or not to accept the bets.

[benandjerry]

What? I'm saying exactly that. There are entry errors A LOT OF THE TIME WITH FOREIGN MATCHES. This doesn't happen in MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, etc. The people making the entries ARE INPUTTING THEM WRONG. I'm not saying the linesman is JUSTIFIED..I'm saying that errors are going to happen when you're offering lines on Russian, Slovenian, Ukrainian, Croatian, etc. basketball games.

The other question I asked in my response is HOW IS IT THE USERS FAULT if they log in and bet on a line that happens to have already started...but they honestly could not have known. I'm not talking about instances where there is plenty of proof of shady dealings...I'm talking about a game just like this... A Russian start time was inputted incorrectly..someone logged in and wagered on it. Unless he has a history of doing this and he didn't wager 50x his normal wager...it's not his fault.

Sportsbooks should (if they dont already) have a note in accounts where they can input the amount of times a user posts a play late. It defies logic that it would happen 3-5 times in a month...then you know somethings up.
If it happens once in a while I would give the benefit of the doubt to the player..esp. if it's foreign games.

Wow, just wow. You American's really set the bar low, I guess thats what its come to. Its one thing if the starting time is adjusted, but if you cant set it right to start with, linesman or clerk, whatever you title is, you are not qualified for that job and thus should not be doing it. If you cant set the starting times right you shouldnt be offering the events, and if it happens routinely on top of that...

I agree with your second part though, just void all bets past start time and see them as nothing as a mistake. If you void winning ones as well losing ones consistently, there is no need to speculate was the player taking a shot or whatnot.... he wont get paid, he also wont lose, nobody loses.

[cloverfield]

Wow, just wow. You American's really set the bar low, I guess thats what its come to.

Well at least I understand why you don't comprehend my posts. I am not saying it's justified. I'm saying that it's due to having some crazy foreign games. This happens at many books. This is not singled out at 5Dimes. Obviously every linesman at a majority of the books are incompetent. I've tried to explain to you 2+ times now that it's due to the extreme timezone differences of the foreign leagues.
I'm not saying it's right..I'm explaining to you why it happens and why it will CONTINUE to happen at MORE THAN ONE BOOK.

If they are going to offer these foreign games and get a lot of start times wrong...they should understand people are going to put in wagers after the game has already started. I would think in this million dollar industry they could come up with a solution to this rather easily.

"The people making the entries ARE INPUTTING THEM WRONG. I'm not saying the linesman is JUSTIFIED..I'm saying that errors are going to happen when you're offering lines on Russian, Slovenian, Ukrainian, Croatian, etc. basketball games."

Isn't it amazing how the linesman don't get MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL starting times wrong? 9/10 this happens only on foreign games.

[benandjerry]

Well at least I understand why you don't comprehend my posts. I am not saying it's justified. I'm saying that it's due to having some crazy foreign games. This happens at many books. This is not singled out at 5Dimes. Obviously every linesman at a majority of the books are incompetent. I've tried to explain to you 2+ times now that it's due to the extreme timezone differences of the foreign leagues.
I'm not saying it's right..I'm explaining to you why it happens and why it will CONTINUE to happen at MORE THAN ONE BOOK.

Wow... Its crazy foreign games and extreme time zones thats a brilliant excuse for the books to use! Again, its not rocket science to calculate the times, there are only so many hours in a day. I'm by NO means trying to hack and whack at 5dimes specifically, imo they're one of the best US serving books.

If they are going to offer these foreign games and get a lot of start times wrong...they should understand people are going to put in wagers after the game has already started. I would think in this million dollar industry they could come up with a solution to this rather easily.

I think we agree on this part.

"The people making the entries ARE INPUTTING THEM WRONG. I'm not saying the linesman is JUSTIFIED..I'm saying that errors are going to happen when you're offering lines on Russian, Slovenian, Ukrainian, Croatian, etc. basketball games."

I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT STATING EXTREME TIME ZONES AND CRAZY GAMES DOESNT SEEM LIKE AN ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE. Its funny how it doesnt appear to be the norm for asians offering US or EU markets, or EU books offering US or Asian markets.

Isn't it amazing how the linesman don't get MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL starting times wrong? 9/10 this happens only on foreign games.

Not really, no.

[onemoregoal]

Nobody is forcing the book to offer "crazy" games in "crazy" leagues.

Its the books choice to include them and they also will have researched the different scenarios that can arise from this, including the problems of start times etc.

Blaming the customer just adds to the pathetic nature, and asking the user to "admit" what he has done is just wrong on so many levels. This isnt a crime and the book isnt the judge.
Void bet, thats it. Just void the bet and move on.

[noyb]

exactly. i'm glad to read there are a lot more people with some common sense in this thread than the heritage one.

books can, if they want too, use the services of several specialized companies that provide starting times on any event imaginable. tennis is an exception in a sense that often 1 match will start right after the previous one has finished. obviously, that's pretty random, and an early retirement in the first match, can screw up the starting time of the 2nd.

regardless, this quote:

Blaming the customer just adds to the pathetic nature, and asking the user to "admit" what he has done is just wrong on so many levels. This isnt a crime and the book isnt the judge.
Void bet, thats it. Just void the bet and move on.

sums it all up for me. nothing more to add.

[Kindred]

Anyone who can't speak English is suspect in my book..

[cloverfield]

I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT STATING EXTREME TIME ZONES AND CRAZY GAMES DOESNT SEEM LIKE AN ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE.

nobody is saying it's an excuse. we both have the same point. It's going to be a common occurrence when offering these types of lines. It happens at different books.

If a book wants to offer these lines and have somewhat frequent lines open past the start...they should be able to come up with a way that the customer is not always wrong. If you're going to start taking money or kicking players out because you left a line up too long...somethings wrong.

Sadly nothing will be done because of our thoughts here but it is fun to discuss. Books are paranoid that everyone is out to screw them. makes it harder for the honest folks who just bet a line they had no idea already started.

[benandjerry]

nobody is saying it's an excuse. we both have the same point. It's going to be a common occurrence when offering these types of lines. It happens at different books.

If a book wants to offer these lines and have somewhat frequent lines open past the start...they should be able to come up with a way that the customer is not always wrong. If you're going to start taking money or kicking players out because you left a line up too long...somethings wrong.

Sadly nothing will be done because of our thoughts here but it is fun to discuss. Books are paranoid that everyone is out to screw them. makes it harder for the honest folks who just bet a line they had no idea already started.

You seemed to be contradicting yourself all the time though by saying a linesman should not be qualified to get the times correct and then going on to say its not justified. Anyone north of 18 with a computer at hand should be able to convert times between different time zones, let alone someone working as a linesman.

I keep seeing you say its a common occurance, it may happen at different books, but not reputable ones (5dimes aside maybe).

If you're going to leave lines up, whether its because starting time is adjusted, you cant get the time right to start with, or you're fine taking action up till some point, you either need to consistently VOID ALL past post wagers or ACCEPT ALL past post wagers considering it a live market and being responsible for still having the line up (as long as the line isnt rediculously off in which case it could be void).

Not talking about this case specifically. Of course if it can be proofed it was an attempt to take a shot, boot the player.

[noyb]

Of course if it can be proofed it was an attempt to take a shot, boot the player.

and how do you intend to prove this exactly?

[benandjerry]

and how do you intend to prove this exactly?

I dont intend to proof it, the burden of proofing it should be with the book, and it should be pretty damn conclusive, not by SBR standards.

Not sure why you questioning me, I think we've been arguing on the same side throughout the thread.

[noyb]

I dont intend to proof it, the burden of proofing it should be with the book, and it should be pretty damn conclusive, not by SBR standards.

Not sure why you questioning me, I think we've been arguing on the same side throughout the thread.

we are.. i just don't think there's ever a possible way for a book to prove it (i personally can't think of a way), so they should be professional about it and not speculate about what may or may not have been the motive for placing that particular bet.

[benandjerry]

we are.. i just don't think there's ever a possible way for a book to prove it (i personally can't think of a way), so they should be professional about it and not speculate about what may or may not have been the motive for placing that particular bet.

While it may not be hard concrete evidence, I think in a case of one regularly betting 50-100 a game and suddenly smashes a game that happens to be past post for 10k or something rediculous should be enough. Then again, few that were taking shots would be that dumb.

The only other way I see is using a neutral arbitrator, one that the player agrees with. The easiest way besides being able to take off lines on accurate times is simply voiding all and any past post wagers.

[touchback]

Exactly!!! They respond to no one and are only regulated by costarican government. Anybody doesnt like it it's simple, dont play there. They dont care about the opinions in this or any other forum. As far as the telling customers that they will send someone to collect that is BS, they just say shit like that to let the customers know they could care less about their treats

Just to let you know... there is no regulation by the Costa Rican government...

[dimer525]

Hi all.
I would like to draw your attention to the following facts.
There are lots of events happening in the world of sports every day. Some of them happen to start earlier than planned, some later, some are just being canceled.


5Dimes do have not so many events in their lines, and it is just a question of their professionalism to provide a correct times of the sport matches as well as to set the correct odds.
99% of bookmakers who have "A" rating usually cancel those bets made after the actual start of the sport event.


My situation has 2 possible explanations:
a) 5Dimes do not create the line odds by themselves. They just steal those lines from somewhere else (maybe from BWIN).


b) They create such situations by a purpose;
After the game ends, they count the bets made for team1 lost, and just cancel the bets made for team2 - but only for those players who's living in USA and knows about SBR. Those players who live outside of USA are just being claimed as thieves and their money just become a Tony's property. A safe decision where 5Dimes is always a winner.


Some of the bookmakers are really doing their business this way, but their rating never exceed C and will never become A+. Just imagine that pinnacle or SBOBet will ignore their players. So why does 5Dimes who is doing that in regular basis still have an A+??

[Legions36]

What im confused about is why no publicity about this from SBR? I remember reading responses about other books when issues arise that they say "U book it u pay it" then a downgrade and all other kind of stuff, even videos and all. Not saying i agree in any way with what crap OP is up to because im sure it's more than what he is saying but when you look at these things happening with sponsor books and non sponsor books it starts to make u wonder whats really going on.
Oh well i would like to see how the rest of this plays out and i would also like to see how SBR deals with these similar situations from other books that is going on here with 5dimes. Don't get it confused either 5dimes is a great book and SBR is a great place.

[poker6469]

this clown,he knows his days are numbered,whats the over -under on 5 dimes getting shut down,i say 12 months and i like the under.

[davidchong]

FYI, only in Panama (regulated for internet and locations), if any book makes a mistake on his line, the responsability is only on the book and all wagers will be honored by the book. Only and only if the bet is placed after the game is finished then there no action in the bet and is a refund.

[Legions36]

FYI, only in Panama (regulated for internet and locations), if any book makes a mistake on his line, the responsability is only on the book and all wagers will be honored by the book. Only and only if the bet is placed after the game is finished then there no action in the bet and is a refund.

What about his previous balance and all his wagers he bet before? They sure didn't stop him before, which means a "freeroll" on the player just like i read before in other situations with certain issues with other books. What makes the view or stance different here?

[davidchong]

What about his previous balance and all his wagers he bet before? They sure didn't stop him before, which means a "freeroll" on the player just like i read before in other situations with certain issues with other books. What makes the view or stance different here?

5 Dimes is in Costa Rica, no regulation there. Books do everything they want.

[Legions36]

5 Dimes is in Costa Rica, no regulation there. Books do everything they want.

I understand that and just because they can do whatever they want doesn't mean they actually will, what im asking is why is this situation different in the eyes of SBR? If you have been reading other issues with other books you can see very similar issues that happened with books but why is it not an issue here? Is it because its 5dimes?
I just don't get it. All issues should be treated the same with all books is what im trying to say.

[BranchDavidian]

I understand that and just because they can do whatever they want doesn't mean they actually will, what im asking is why is this situation different in the eyes of SBR? If you have been reading other issues with other books you can see very similar issues that happened with books but why is it not an issue here? Is it because its 5dimes?
I just don't get it. All issues should be treated the same with all books is what im trying to say.

Each book has its own rules written for past-posted events. Heritage says all past-posted events are invalid, while 5dimes rules state that past-posted events will be handled as blatant theft.
Heritage has the proper rules in place --- they just are not following them. The rules written at 5dimes should be revised --- if 5dimes makes the mistake of leaving lines up too long, they can hardly punish the player for compounding their mistake.

[Legions36]

Each book has its own rules written for past-posted events. Heritage says all past-posted events are invalid, while 5dimes rules state that past-posted events will be handled as blatant theft.
Heritage has the proper rules in place --- they just are not following them. The rules written at 5dimes should be revised --- if 5dimes makes the mistake of leaving lines up too long, they can hardly punish the player for compounding their mistake.

Yeah but another book pulls this crap and u know the outcome instantly. We won't hear the end of it, videos, threads u name it but for some reason we would have never even known about this had OP not started this thread. I'm just seeing some unfair justice being done with some issues lately.

[benandjerry]

Yeah but another book pulls this crap and u know the outcome instantly. We won't hear the end of it, videos, threads u name it but for some reason we would have never even known about this had OP not started this thread. I'm just seeing some unfair justice being done with some issues lately.

Preferential treatment, it most likely isnt in their best interest, fair or not.