[Attila]

yestarday basketball NCAA : Kentucky v Tennessee - Total Match Points Under 66.5pts

my 2nd email to betfair:
"How long does it take to admit the the market : Kentucky v Tennessee - Total Match Points Under 66.5pts has no sense ? (normal value should be 115-130)
so it is 100% that the total point will be over 66.5 (and one of your customer noticed this error and offered some price to mislead other customers, i supposed that this market is half time, but after placed my bet i noticed that it is on full time)
and such a situtation the only acceptable solution is the market voiding

if you do not void it then you admit that you support those of your customers who makes advatages from your market creation errors , and you allow your customer to tradeing on such a market where the outcome is 100% known befor the event starts
if you do not void my bet on this market i will make a complaint to sbr , bookmakersreview,com, and forums. "

betfair:

Thank you for your e-mail. After consulting with our market operations team they have confirmed that they have no intentions of voiding bets on this market.
I can appreciate that this decision will be frustrating, however, the market is valid and all bets placed on this market will stand.
I apologise that we cannot facilitate your request on this occasion.


what you say?

[brankica023]

Like million time before if you play over and win your bet ll be voided,like this they just take your money.
Every book is same.

[chachi]

BF is not a book brankica its an exchange ...

They basically will only void a market if the start time is wrong or if they mistakenly do not go in-play with requisite delays ...

[shari91]

I've seen people post about this several times Attila - a betfair customer deliberately puts up a bad line hoping to catch someone else who's not paying attention. And chachi is correct... I've never heard of them voiding a market because someone got duped by a fellow customer. (I could be mistaken though so if someone has an example please share).

It's one of those unfortunate things that we risk when we're playing against other bettors and not a standard sportsbook. Sadly some people will do anything to make a quick buck so we have to be really careful before we confirm our bets.

[tommygun]

People are always trying to scam/trick people on betfair. Look at a soccer market for instance, in the correct score market, you will see odds of $1000 for score lines which cannot possibly happen that people are putting up. Eg. Market for 0-0 will be $1000-1, when the game is 2-1 or something like that. ludicrous.

[FourLengthsClear]

Was there anything actually matched, Tommy?

[Hareeba!]

Like million time before if you play over and win your bet ll be voided,like this they just take your money.
Every book is same.

Exchanges are different to bookmakers.
It's not Betfair's money at stake here.
You are betting against other players.
Each enters into the bet under the same fully disclosed conditions so no need for Betfair to void.

[chachi]

tommy - you misunderstand, thats being offered to allow people to green up / free up trading capital for giving away a fraction of a percent

and Shari, I must say I'm a bit taken aback by the implied tone in your latter remark ...

[tommygun]

tommy - you misunderstand, thats being offered to allow people to green up / free up trading capital for giving away a fraction of a percent and Shari, I must say I'm a bit taken aback by the implied tone in your latter remark ...

Who is putting out these $1000 markets on events that are impossible to happen, eg. the soccer scoreline business? customers? Betfair?

[Hareeba!]

Who is putting out these $1000 markets on events that are impossible to happen, eg. the soccer scoreline business? customers? Betfair?

players who want to cash out their winning position before the game is over and market settled so they can move on to the next game

[tommygun]

players who want to cash out their winning position before the game is over and market settled so they can move on to the next game

Ok thanks Hareeba, I tend to bet a different style, green up in other ways.

Also it is strange how all markets stop at $67 available (in soccer anyway) for scorelines.

[chachi]

that's about €50 ... so someone's actively doing it with about €50k of float

[Attila]

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have been advised by our Market Operations team that there is not much we can do in relation to the Fixture 31 January / Kentucky v Tennessee settlement. The market was 100% valid and was settled correctly and in line with our rules and regulations.

It is the responsibility of all customers to be aware of what market they are betting on and furthermore, the naming of the market was clearly labelled as ‘Total Match Points’ which is quite different to the market you thought you were betting on (1st Half Points).

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.



Thank you for your e-mail.

Please note that having spoken to our market operation team they will not void the market as stated in the previous email. In our rules and regulation it states that Betfair customers are responsible for managing their in-play bets at all times.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

[durito]

I've seen people post about this several times Attila - a betfair customer deliberately puts up a bad line hoping to catch someone else who's not paying attention. And chachi is correct... I've never heard of them voiding a market because someone got duped by a fellow customer. (I could be mistaken though so if someone has an example please share).

It's one of those unfortunate things that we risk when we're playing against other bettors and not a standard sportsbook. Sadly some people will do anything to make a quick buck so we have to be really careful before we confirm our bets.

The problem here is BetFair did in fact put up the bad line. In no way did they intend to put up 66.5 as a total for a full game market. That some asshole took advantage of that doesn't eliminate BetFair from responsibility. There has not been a single NCAAB game that went under 66.5 for the game for at least the last 7 years I have data for. They should cancel stuff like this. Matchbook will.

[FourLengthsClear]

I have seen them take markets like this down before but I wouldn't know if money was actually matched/traded at the time they did.

In a case like this, the market is clearly posted in error and it is reasonable to assume that the offer posted was malicious. It would be nice to see them act in the best interest of the honest player here (albeit it would be nice to know what odds the OP actually took, If he/she bet it at 20/1......................0

The data file won't be available for another 8 days, but I will be sure to look it up when it is.

[Hareeba!]

I have seen them take markets like this down before but I wouldn't know if money was actually matched/traded at the time they did.

In a case like this, the market is clearly posted in error and it is reasonable to assume that the offer posted was malicious. It would be nice to see them act in the best interest of the honest player here (albeit it would be nice to know what odds the OP actually took, If he/she bet it at 20/1......................0

The data file won't be available for another 8 days, but I will be sure to look it up when it is.

You make a fair point that if they have clearly put up a market containing such an obvious error that it would probably be best to void it.

However, surely a player should have heard the alarm bells ringing on seeing a quote for the over 66.5 pts and double checked what he was betting on?
Wouldn't he be as guilty of trying for a free shot as the bloke putting up the offer?

[FourLengthsClear]

You make a fair point that if they have clearly put up a market containing such an obvious error that it would probably be best to void it.

However, surely a player should have heard the alarm bells ringing on seeing a quote for the over 66.5 pts and double checked what he was betting on?
Wouldn't he be as guilty of trying for a free shot as the bloke putting up the offer?

The player thought they were betting on the first half total and but the under.

[Hareeba!]

The player thought they were betting on the first half total and but the under.

Ok, but same goes as I expect the price on offer would have been far too enticing not to ring the alarm bells?

[shari91]

tommy - you misunderstand, thats being offered to allow people to green up / free up trading capital for giving away a fraction of a percent

and Shari, I must say I'm a bit taken aback by the implied tone in your latter remark ...

You should probably re-read my post again because you seem to be misinterpreting something.

durito - I agree they should void it if he made the bet at normal odds and they want to truly protect their customer. I'm just not surprised they didn't because they don't seem too eager to void much of anything. Although now that FLC has said he's seen them void before in situations like this, I'm curious to know why this one would be considered different ie were the odds Attila took reflective of the minute possibility of this one hitting, etc

[FourLengthsClear]

You should probably re-read my post again because you seem to be misinterpreting something.

durito - I agree they should void it if he made the bet at normal odds and they want to truly protect their customer. I'm just not surprised they didn't because they don't seem too eager to void much of anything. Although now that FLC has said he's seen them void before in situations like this, I'm curious to know why this one would be considered different ie were the odds Attila took reflective of the minute possibility of this one hitting, etc

I would clarify that I have seen markets taken down but it could well be that they had no matched bets on them at the time.

[shari91]

I would clarify that I have seen markets taken down but it could well be that they had no matched bets on them at the time.

Yeah that could be it. When I first started to play there, a friend lectured me for ages about how I have to be careful because he himself had been stung for a decent chunk of money and betfair wouldn't get involved. That's why I'm always so curious to see if betfair has changed how they handle these situations whenever I see a new thread like this pop up. Whatever they're referring to in their rules when they talk about their sole discretion to void markets, it doesn't seem like they apply it in cases like this.

[durito]

The 1st Half line on this game was 61.5 at pinnacle, OP should have known 66.5 was a mistake even if he thought it was 1st H.

[chachi]

It's one of those unfortunate things that we risk when we're playing against other bettors and not a standard sportsbook. Sadly some people will do anything to make a quick buck so we have to be really careful before we confirm our bets.

You should probably re-read my post again because you seem to be misinterpreting something.

Well I guess perhaps its from my ~20 yrs in the financial markets and the fact that I trade sports markets as much as I take outright positions ... If someone is foolish enough to misinterpret what they are taking or laying odds on, in my mind PT Barnum's old adage comes into play.

You seem to be alluding that one should, for the greater good as it were, not take "free money" which is sitting there on the screen, or that by doing so they are acting in a dishonest or sneaky way.

[Hareeba!]

Well I guess perhaps its from my ~20 yrs in the financial markets and the fact that I trade sports markets as much as I take outright positions ... If someone is foolish enough to misinterpret what they are taking or laying odds on, in my mind PT Barnum's old adage comes into play.

You seem to be alluding that one should, for the greater good as it were, not take "free money" which is sitting there on the screen, or that by doing so they are acting in a dishonest or sneaky way.

I see a difference between snapping up an erroneous offer which is just sitting there waiting to be taken as someone else surely will if you don't and deliberately posting a trap offer for the unwary.

[chachi]

stating upfront that I dont actively seed markets with misleading prices, its a trading exchange, not a schoolkid's playground ...

if you dont comprehend what you're backing or laying 1000% and/or do not pay attention to detail, then one should not transact on BF

[Attila]

Thank you for your e-mail.

As previously stated Betfair has decided that we are happy with our market management and we will not be voiding or resettling the market.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

[FourLengthsClear]

Thank you for your e-mail.

As previously stated Betfair has decided that we are happy with our market management and we will not be voiding or resettling the market.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

What odds did you bet the under 66.5 at, Attila?

[noyb]

i completely agree with betfair not voiding this. it was obviously a typing mistake, but it's a grey line between a typing error and an actual market. betfair offers correct markets all the time that have odds of a 1000 or are even more unlikely to happen.
betfair voids when they have got home/away mixed up for example, these markets are clearly erroneous as the fixture never happened. this fixture was correct and took place.
people screw up on betfair all the time, altough most of the time they screw up by for example reversing odds in an otherwise completely normal market. stock exchanges have a rule you can have big mistakes reversed, betfair doesn't . you know that in advance when betting there and you know you're basically on your own

[lukahh]

betfair has been somewhat lax in interpretations i'd say.

but then again, why the heck did u bet on U66.5 for whole game??

[chachi]

he admits he "supposed" it was a HT line, and took a shot thinking he was getting u66.5 instead of u61.5 as Pinny/etc were

[FindTheLock]

there is an enormous difference between a 5 point mistake and a 70 point mistake. That bet should be voided unless he was offered odds of 40-1 or more. A basketball game ending Under 66.5 is about as likely as a unicorn taking someone to work.

[noyb]

betfair doesn't offer odds, other people do and this isn't betfair's responsibility. so "unless he was offered odds of 40-1 or more" does not make any sense, it isn't up to betfair what was offered and what wasn't.

[FindTheLock]

betfair doesn't offer odds, other people do and this isn't betfair's responsibility. so "unless he was offered odds of 40-1 or more" does not make any sense, it isn't up to betfair what was offered and what wasn't.

haha are you really that full of yourself? Did I say betfair had to offer him those odds?

[FindTheLock]

Is there a way to track what other offers the guy who presented this offer has made in the past? I wonder if he tries to pull these tricks all the time.

[noyb]

haha are you really that full of yourself? Did I say betfair had to offer him those odds?

no but it makes no sense for betfair to void or not void based on what one customer offers to another customer, when they don't have a policy to do so. they create the market and that's where their responsibility ends; how is it betfair's problem what their users trade amongst themselves (1.01's are accidentally laid and backed all the time, on a daily basis), and even more, why would they have to do research on whatever might be fair value (20/1 we'll let that stand, 10/1 we'll cancel, obv that doesn't work) ?