[noyb]

Is there a way to track what other offers the guy who presented this offer has made in the past? I wonder if he tries to pull these tricks all the time.

completely irrelevant

[Optional]

Caveat Emptor.

I don't see anything wrong with any user posting any price on any market they like.

[FindTheLock]

no but it makes no sense for betfair to void or not void based on what one customer offers to another customer, when they don't have a policy to do so. they create the market and that's where their responsibility ends; how is it betfair's problem what their users trade amongst themselves, and even more, why would they have to do research on whatever might be fair value (20/1 we'll let that stand, 10/1 we'll cancel, obv that doesn't work) ?

because they're making it possible for scammers and scum to prevail in situations where honest players made a mistake any human could make at any time. If I ran a website like betfair and noticed an account that was trying to take advantage of people on a consistent basis, I would suspend that account. That is how a business should be run. Cases like this being let go will cause the people getting burned to try to burn other people. This will cause a huge long term problem and will need to be addressed eventually. The guy who got ripped off this time might start to think about doing the ripping next time. It's a domino effect and a chain reaction that inevitably occurs when people like you are put in charge. If you don't see anything wrong with this then I hope it happens to you soon.

[chachi]

because they're making it possible for scammers and scum to prevail in situations where honest players made a mistake any human could make at any time.

What about the obvious intent of the OP trying to buy a 5pt edge on the under knowing full well what reality was?

As the saying goes, you cannot cheat an honest person. The OP thought he was getting one over on someone, instead he found out that he was the bitch not the other way around ...

[noyb]

because they're making it possible for scammers and scum to prevail in situations where honest players made a mistake any human could make at any time. If I ran a website like betfair and noticed an account that was trying to take advantage of people on a consistent basis, I would suspend that account. That is how a business should be run. Cases like this being let go will cause the people getting burned to try to burn other people. This will cause a huge long term problem and will need to be addressed eventually. The guy who got ripped off this time might start to think about doing the ripping next time. It's a domino effect and a chain reaction that inevitably occurs when people like you are put in charge. If you don't see anything wrong with this then I hope it happens to you soon.

i've been on both sides of this, but it's part of the game. you can't void something one user thinks are wrong odds. where do you draw the line? so many orders accepted on betfair every single day; do you really expect them too look into every idiot who (preferably after the event has finished) claims he made a mistake and didn't actually meant to bet that? in comparison: do you expect a book to void a bet a user claims was mistakenly placed on the wrong team? most books tell you to go **** yourself, unless they like you.

betfair isn't a kindergarten, theres nobody there to hold your hand. when you use it anyway, you should pay attention what you do. if not, you'll learn a lesson to pay attention next time.

[FindTheLock]

i've been on both sides of this, but it's part of the game. you can't void something one user thinks are wrong odds. where do you draw the line? so many orders accepted on betfair every single day; do you really expect them too look into every idiot who (preferably after the event has finished) claims he made a mistake and didn't actually meant to bet that? in comparison: do you expect a book to void a bet a user claims was mistakenly placed on the wrong team? most books tell you to go **** yourself, unless they like you.

betfair isn't a kindergarten, theres nobody there to hold your hand. when you use it anyway, you should pay attention what you do. if not, you'll learn a lesson to pay attention next time.

there is a difference between a small line error and a total for the game being set nearer to a single teams total for the game. Any person could very easily over look something like this, because it is unfathomable to think a basketball total for the entire game would end under 66.5 points. That is why the odds he was offered make a difference. If he took the under with great odds then I don't see anything wrong with it, but if he was offered market odds on the 1H/2H whichever the case may be, then it's quite apparent the person offering it was trying to pull a fast one and betfair allowed him to succeed.

[chachi]

ftl - the odds had to have been big, otherwise any FT o66.5 line wouldve been bought down to 1.0 something

[noyb]

if any person could easily overlook something like this, why should the person offering be held responsible for offering what were likely normale 2-ish odds. maybe he was mistaken as well?
besides, on soccer many times there are totals for the game that are unlikely and an outside chance. odds adjust and are simply set at 1.02 / 50 instead of 2 / 2.
and again, "pulling a fast one" is subjective. this isn't an isolated incident, if you void here, you need to void elsewhere and you need to draw a line somewhere, which you can't, so not voiding anywhere is the right thing to do.

[FindTheLock]

What about the obvious intent of the OP trying to buy a 5pt edge on the under knowing full well what reality was?

As the saying goes, you cannot cheat an honest person. The OP thought he was getting one over on someone, instead he found out that he was the bitch not the other way around ...

maybe the player offering the 5 point edge liked the over a lot. 5 points for a half in a basketball game is peanuts compared to a 66.5 point total for the entire game. People offer bets like the aforementioned all the time if they feel strongly about their play on the over in this particular case. To compare a 5 point edge to a 70 point edge is ridiculous.

[shari91]

maybe the player offering the 5 point edge liked the over a lot. 5 points for a half in a basketball game is peanuts compared to a 66.5 point total for the entire game. People offer bets like the aforementioned all the time if they feel strongly about their play on the over in this particular case. To compare a 5 point edge to a 70 point edge is ridiculous.

The market was created by Betfair, not a player. A player just seeded it, hoping that someone would make the exact mistake the OP did and assume it was for the half instead of FT. So, of course anyone would like the over a lot in this market as like durito said: How many games have you seen stay under 66.5 FT? If you didn't bother to read what the market actually was and/or were in a hurry to grab the offer before the person who offered it realised "their mistake", you'd most likely jump on the under thinking you found an off line. Unfortunately the OP didn't notice that the market was for the game total, not the half, so his under 66.5 bit the dust.

[FindTheLock]

The market was created by Betfair, not a player. A player just seeded it, hoping that someone would make the exact mistake the OP did and assume it was for the half instead of FT. So, of course anyone would like the over a lot in this market as like durito said: How many games have you seen stay under 66.5 FT? If you didn't bother to read what the market actually was and/or were in a hurry to grab the offer before the person who offered it realised "their mistake", you'd most likely jump on the under thinking you found an off line. Unfortunately the OP didn't notice that the market was for the game total, not the half, so his under 66.5 bit the dust.

I understand the concept of the market adjusting on a line like that, but it doesn't change the fact that the offer was more than likely intended to be malicious from the start. Kentucky scored 69 points in that game alone. It is a slippery slope voiding bets, but it always sucks when the bad guys win.

[shari91]

I understand the concept of the market adjusting on a line like that, but it doesn't change the fact that the offer was more than likely intended to be malicious from the start. Kentucky scored 69 points in that game alone. It is a slippery slope voiding bets, but it always sucks when the bad guys win.

The thing is there was no market adjustment here. Betfair put up an off number for the FT total. Instead of 130 or whatever it should've been, they put up a number closer to the HT total by mistake. Someone saw it and decided they were going to seed it hoping another bettor took the bait which Attila did. That was the point of my first post - there will always be people hoping that you're not paying attention so you need to make zero assumptions and be sure of what you're actually betting because Betfair is very reluctant to void bets.

[chachi]

maybe the player offering the 5 point edge liked the over a lot. 5 points for a half in a basketball game is peanuts compared to a 66.5 point total for the entire game. People offer bets like the aforementioned all the time if they feel strongly about their play on the over in this particular case. To compare a 5 point edge to a 70 point edge is ridiculous.

you misunderstood me ftl - the OP jumped on the under because he presumed it was a HT market and that BF's line was 5 pts above the general HT market midpoint of 61.5, therefore he was expecting he was trousering 5pts extra edge on the HT line off of someone and being slick, and instead got spindled

[Attila]

odds was 5.00 , stake: 80EUR

[Attila]

Dear Attila,

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your e-mail dated 1st February 2012.

Can you confirm your full name?

I have made contact with the Representative of Betfair Malta Ltd. on your behalf about the matter you have raised; information has been requested with regards to the incident you refer to.

As soon as information becomes available to the Authority you will be notified accordingly.

Any future mail should be addressed to complaints@lga.org.mt.

Regards

Frances

[Attila]

if betfair wont void this bet, it means that it is worth for me to extend my betfair application to find such market errors, and offer misleading odds

earlier i had another similar issue with betfair on tennis handicap, they give +4.5 for the favorite , of corse they did not void my bet, create another market with -4.5,


Thank you for your e-mail.

We have loaded a new market, with a reverse outcome on the Asian Handicap. However, we will not be voiding the market or bets on the first Asian Handicap, because it is not a faulty market and the selections are possible outcomes. I have contacted our market operations team and unfortunately, it is your responsibility to know what you are betting on and to manage your position. It was your decision to place the bet at those odds, and it would not be fair to the other customer(s) who you have struck your bet with if we were to void it.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

"IT WOULD NOT BE FAIR TO OTHER CUSPOMERS(S) WHO" , LOL


Thank you for your e-mail.

Unfortuntaely as my colleague has already said once the market is loaded and customers are betting on it , we will leave this market avalaible also, so customers have the option to bet on this market or choose not too. I will pass on your feedback but unfortunately their is nothing further we can do , your bets were matched in good faith.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

"YOUR BETS WERE MATCHED IN GOOD FAITH" LOL

[durito]

odds was 5.00 , stake: 80EUR

So you took a shot at scamming someone, and it backfired. No reason to void.

[shari91]

Well at least we now know that once people start betting on a market, Betfair won't take it down. I guess that answers FLC's question.

Truly though Attila, you didn't realise that by getting $5.00 on that line of 66.5 that something was fishy? Even though you thought you were betting the HT market, had you not looked at the line anywhere else or were you hoping that the other person didn't have a clue what they were doing and were trying to take advantage of that?

[Attila]

the outcome of this market is 100% predictable, so there is no sense for this market , what are you talking about?
support those customers who make such traps to other customers?

[FindTheLock]

the outcome of this market is 100% predictable, so there is no sense for this market , what are you talking about?
support those customers who make such traps to other customers?

I have to point out that you were getting 4 to 1 odds and an additional 5 points on the market you "thought" you were betting on. That makes you look as guilty as the guy who swindled you.

[noyb]

the outcome of this market is 100% predictable, so there is no sense for this market , what are you talking about?
support those customers who make such traps to other customers?

they are talking about you accepting a very high odd on a market that was out of line whatever way you look at it. if it was half time, these odds didn't make sense, if it was full time, these odds didn't make sense, whatever you think this market was supposed to be, this didn't make sense. you thought the other side was the idiot, while in reality you were the idiot. it's ok, i've been there myself, but stop the whining and move on.

[Attila]

compare betfair answers:
- it is not a faulty market and the selections are possible outcomes.
but if one of the outcome is not possible (like under 66.5 full match) they do the same, not void
- it would not be fair to the other customer(s)
other customer(s) means the customer who makes these traps to others
- your bets were matched in good faith.
if this is in good faith then please somebody share me a bad faith , thanks

[noyb]

Dear Attila,

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your e-mail dated 1st February 2012.

Can you confirm your full name?

I have made contact with the Representative of Betfair Malta Ltd. on your behalf about the matter you have raised; information has been requested with regards to the incident you refer to.

As soon as information becomes available to the Authority you will be notified accordingly.

Any future mail should be addressed to complaints@lga.org.mt.

Regards

Frances

funny, the LGA never responds to anything normally. the one time they do it's an idiot complaint.

[shari91]

compare betfair answers:
- it is not a faulty market and the selections are possible outcomes.
but if one of the outcome is not possible (like under 66.5 full match) they do the same, not void
- it would not be fair to the other customer(s)
other customer(s) means the customer who makes these traps to others
- your bets were matched in good faith.
if this is in good faith then please somebody share me a bad faith , thanks

Attila, the under 66.5 was possible. Not very likely at all according to durito's stats, but still technically possible. The market could've been Under 40 points scored in Full Time and it'd still be officially possible. I'm assuming that's what betfair's referring to.

Again, either you didn't look at the line anywhere else and didn't realise what the correct line should've been or you knew and thought the person who put up the offer made a mistake... and you'd be getting a great payout for it. Instead the person who seeded stung you instead.

[wrongturn]

under 66.5 is extremely unlikely, but possible. anybody know what the sports book rule about a game ended early due to brawl, attack, building collapse etc? Do they resume a game later, or just decide it right there?

[shari91]

under 66.5 is extremely unlikely, but possible. anybody know what the sports book rule about a game ended early due to brawl, attack, building collapse etc? Do they resume a game later, or just decide it right there?

I'm not checking betfair again today because their rules section hurts my life and I've already ventured there a few times today but for Pinny it's 35 mins for NCAAB or it's void if rescheduled for another day.

"NBA games must go at least 43 minutes to have action. For all other basketball leagues, games must go at least 35 minutes unless otherwise specified. If play is suspended before the minimum time has been reached and not resumed the same day, all bets will be scored as 'no action' and all monies refunded."

[andywend]

Attila, here is the problem you have and why you really don't deserve a refund.

The 1st half total on the game in question was 61 1/2 and you placed a bet on the under 66 1/2 @ +400 (5 for 1).

You knew the line was 5 points off in your favor and you saw +400 to boot and grabbed it as quickly as you could. If the line was right around even money, then you would have a much stronger argument.

ON the flip side, the guy offering that bet KNEW FULL WELL about Betfair's mistake and placed the offer for the sole purpose of trying to rip someone off.

Both you and the bettor on the other side both tried to pull fast ones and you both have dirty hands. BetFair should remove the winnings from the other traders account and donate the proceeds to a charity of YOUR CHOICE. In addition, the bettor who put in the "trap offer" should receive a warning that if he puts up any more "trap offers", his account will be suspended.

Unfortunately, every exchange has scum bettors putting up "trap offers" where they will try to get +1000 on a team that is really priced at -1000 (i.e. Team A is up 28-7 in the 3rd Quarter of a football game with a bettor offering Team B at -1000).

In the heat of battle (in the middle of a sporting event), people are much more likely to fill these trap offers as wagers are being placed rapidly and many mistakes happen. People who place these "trap offers" have nothing to lose and if they get filled have everything to gain.

For some reason I can't really understand, exchanges are hesitant to warn people who do this all the time.

Its one thing to fill an order on a exchange that is mispriced as if you don't take it, someone else surely will and quite another to put up "trap offers" all the time.

[Attila]

i have a new idea, if betfair do nothing, i will make a new thread later
"trap offers on betfair, i made"
After my betfair application ready to make traps, i will post/share my traps after the event closed and matched some money

[noyb]

Its one thing to fill an order on a exchange that is mispriced as if you don't take it, someone else surely will and quite another to put up "trap offers" all the time.

either you're a man of principles or you're not. the "otherwise someone else would have done it" is 1. not very ethical, 2. the same applies to offers made, not just offers taken. amazing how so many of you don't seem to want to accept someone ******* something up is completely solely responsible for that, whatever the circumstances. apparently there always has to be someone else to blame, in this case some mean guy making cheeky offers. i just don't get it.

After my betfair application ready to make traps, i will post/share my traps after the event closed and matched some money

good luck setting traps with your 80 euro-stakes..

[shari91]

i have a new idea, if betfair do nothing, i will make a new thread later
"trap offers on betfair, i made"
After my betfair application ready to make traps, i will post/share my traps after the event closed and matched some money

Like I said earlier, a guy came into my tennis thread last year trying to sell an ebook about how to best trick people on betfair. I'm sure he's not the only one selling that stuff and it's very obvious that people try to set traps somewhat often. That's just the way it is... you need to be aware of what you're actually betting. However betting what you thought was an off line and thinking you'd get $5.00 on it isn't so holy either. So I'm not sure how one act can be thought worse than the other since he didn't force you to bet it. You were both in the wrong. You just happened to be on the wrong side of it.

[shari91]

And noyb, I completely agree. You either go in with a every man for themselves attitude or you avoid anything that's even the least bit off. I'm not sure how one picks and chooses when to apply a morality check. If you're trying to pick off those "mispriced offers", how are you any different than the person offering them? You're attempting to take advantage of someone in the first instance, they're trying to take advantage of you in the 2nd. Yes the bleeding heart in me thinks it's sad that we live in a world where some people resort to trying to trap others to make money but it is what it is. If betfair started mussing around with people's offers, there'd be a riot. But the people betting off lines are doing the same thing. One of the main reasons betfair is so successful is because it's me against you, without these grey areas thrown in.

[Attila]

good luck setting traps with your 80 euro-stakes..

before you look down on my 80 EUR-stakes
National Minimum Wage in Hungary is about 325 EUR for a month (gross, net:240 EUR)

[noyb]

i don't look down on 80 euro stakes, but you were "threathening" to start your own trap setting-application. as this would require you to lay bets on an enormous amount of different markets (and therefore you would need an enormous amount of money) to catch that one idiot every now and then, your threat doesn't sound that realistic judging your stake size. that's all.

[Ibrakadabra]

This has to be the most stupid thread ever on SBR.

Everyone is responsible for reading market info BEFORE they bet. Trap bets are out there in thousands every day on Betfair. There´s hundreds of markets out there that will create a situation with totally irrelevant lines when the market changes. No matter how much we hate it there´s no way this can be stopped.

And now we know you got what you thought you bet at for a ridiculously good price, I mean, just stop (or create a new nick)...

Traps is a part of the nature of the exchange beast and will be so forever on, deal with it. Learn from your mistake and move on.

[Hareeba!]

odds was 5.00 , stake: 80EUR

and those odds didn't ring alarm bells with you?