1. #1
    RedApples
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    NBA division futures - How will books grade them if there is a prorated season?

    Most likely if the NBA resumes we will be looking at a pro-rated season, if not straight to the playoffs.

    If this happens, how will books grade these futures?

    Asking because I have bets to win divisions and wondering what to look forward to at this point.

    Input appreciated.

  2. #2
    RedApples
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    BetOnline has the following rule for Conference and Championship:

    NBA Futures


    • All conference and championship wagers are considered action. In the case of a shortened season or any other unforeseen event, the winner of these wagers is determined by the NBA. Whoever the NBA deems the winner is the winner for wagering purposes. If no winner is determined by the NBA, all wagers are considered NO ACTION AND ALL MONIES ARE REFUNDED.


    For any instances not mentioned here, Las Vegas wagering rules apply.

  3. #3
    Statman
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    Have made some investments on NBA futures as well. The big thing in my mind would be the venue change. Playing at an entirely different venue for the playoffs (1 or 2 sites only) should have a big impact. Home court advantage throughout the playoffs does not mean anything now either. If anything, this might drive more "hedging" possibly? 5dimes is taking a wait and see approach. If indeed the venue does change to one of two sites, I think a refund of bets will be in order.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedApples View Post
    BetOnline has the following rule for Conference and Championship:

    NBA Futures


    • All conference and championship wagers are considered action. In the case of a shortened season or any other unforeseen event, the winner of these wagers is determined by the NBA. Whoever the NBA deems the winner is the winner for wagering purposes. If no winner is determined by the NBA, all wagers are considered NO ACTION AND ALL MONIES ARE REFUNDED.


    For any instances not mentioned here, Las Vegas wagering rules apply.

  4. #4
    Hman
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    Much to be seen

  5. #5
    IBetYou
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    different books have different small print

  6. #6
    RedApples
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    looks like we might start getting some answers to these questions. if you have yours graded please post it here.

  7. #7
    rm18
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    I have to make the playoff bets not sure what is going to happen
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  8. #8
    MrSink
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    I got 5D , season wins under over bets . no results so far . curious how they will be graded
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  9. #9
    RedApples
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSink View Post
    I got 5D , season wins under over bets . no results so far . curious how they will be graded
    i can all but promise you all o/u win total bets will be no action. you need not be curious on that one.

  10. #10
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSink View Post
    I got 5D , season wins under over bets . no results so far . curious how they will be graded
    Here's their rule

    Total season wins are graded for each team on the date the outcome has been determined. If a team does not play all scheduled games, and those games could make a difference in the outcome, then the selection is "no action".

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  11. #11
    mehoolio
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    Also curious about division bets.

  12. #12
    thomorino
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    Each book will have their own policy but the best way to do is to refund all bets unless yhe division was already clinched before the stoppage.

    Its pathetic that many books such as betopnline and intertops havent even graded nhl division futures yet.

    Fanduels grading of nba divisional futures was done very well too.

    Fanduel graded teams in first as having won tue sivision, teams that were eliminated from winning the division as losers, and refunding bets on teams that werent in first but werent eliminated from winning the division.

    Its is cowardly that books are waiting for these leagues to say something more on divisions, their is no logical reason for them to saying anymore on divisions.

  13. #13
    sunshineSpecial
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post
    Each book will have their own policy but the best way to do is to refund all bets unless yhe division was already clinched before the stoppage.

    Its pathetic that many books such as betopnline and intertops havent even graded nhl division futures yet.

    Fanduels grading of nba divisional futures was done very well too.

    Fanduel graded teams in first as having won tue sivision, teams that were eliminated from winning the division as losers, and refunding bets on teams that werent in first but werent eliminated from winning the division.

    Its is cowardly that books are waiting for these leagues to say something more on divisions, their is no logical reason for them to saying anymore on divisions.
    I assume it means that they want a legit reason to not void 2nd place teams.

  14. #14
    milwaukee mike
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    for division bets, betonline has minimum games played

    nba minimum 80
    nhl minimum 77

    so at betonline the division winners will be canceled, conference champ/overall champ will still have action

    other books are for the most part going to use 5dimes rule... if the bet couldn't possibly win/lose then it is graded, otherwise no action on those division winners
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  15. #15
    bubba
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    for division bets, betonline has minimum games played

    nba minimum 80
    nhl minimum 77

    so at betonline the division winners will be canceled, conference champ/overall champ will still have action

    other books are for the most part going to use 5dimes rule... if the bet couldn't possibly win/lose then it is graded, otherwise no action on those division winners
    I dont see those betonline game requirements listed in rules (i could be missing them). Where did you get them?
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  16. #16
    milwaukee mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba View Post
    I dont see those betonline game requirements listed in rules (i could be missing them). Where did you get them?
    i jotted them down from a couple months ago... they have been that way for years, and now they removed the nba/nhl divisional rules for some reason

    they still have the mlb 160 game and nfl 16 game rule up for division winners
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  17. #17
    RedApples
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    i jotted them down from a couple months ago... they have been that way for years, and now they removed the nba/nhl divisional rules for some reason

    they still have the mlb 160 game and nfl 16 game rule up for division winners
    wow, good shit dude. I just verified what you said using the way back machine.

    april 16 and april 1 both have captures.

    on april 1 the rules showed what had been there for years.. 80 game minimum. april 16, rules were changed.

    no way that is coincidence. seems very very shady.

    my bets will def be influenced by this. i capped out on Brooklyn Nets pretty hard to win division. I'm owed $500-1k by previous rules.

    thanks for the information!

  18. #18
    MeanPeopleSuck
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    BetDSI graded the NHL teams leading their divisions at the suspension (many by as little as 1 or 2 pts) as Wins and every other NHL hockey divisional futures bet as a loss.

    DSI's decision was arbitrary and stupid, undoubtedly chosen to maximize profits. Here's why:

    1. The NHL specifically refused to name Divisional Champions.

    2. A lot of DSI's "divisional champions" only led their divisions by 1 or 2 pts, but different teams had played different amounts of games. DSI declared the Blues central division champs by 2 pts over Colorado, except Colorado had played 1 less game, so how's that fair to a guy with a Colorado futures position? (I happen to know a guy like that intimately.)

    3. And what about guys who bought division futures bets in the last few days before the season was suspended? DSI's decision means that all of those bets were automatic losers before they were even made except the lucky few placed on their "division winners."

    Quick example: A player I know, a helluva guy, really -- let's call him NicePeopleRock -- has a sizeable DSI position on the Flyers to win the Metropolitan Division. When the season was suspended, the Flyers were red hot and had closed to within 1 point of the division leading Capitals, so declaring them divisional losers when 13 games remaining on their schedule feels like a pretty bad beat. As an added kick in the teeth, his final Flyers purchase was made March 10th, a hockey bet he managed to lose without a single hockey game being played.

  19. #19
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanPeopleSuck View Post
    BetDSI graded the NHL teams leading their divisions at the suspension (many by as little as 1 or 2 pts) as Wins and every other NHL hockey divisional futures bet as a loss.

    DSI's decision was arbitrary and stupid, undoubtedly chosen to maximize profits. Here's why:

    1. The NHL specifically refused to name Divisional Champions.

    2. A lot of DSI's "divisional champions" only led their divisions by 1 or 2 pts, but different teams had played different amounts of games. DSI declared the Blues central division champs by 2 pts over Colorado, except Colorado had played 1 less game, so how's that fair to a guy with a Colorado futures position? (I happen to know a guy like that intimately.)

    3. And what about guys who bought division futures bets in the last few days before the season was suspended? DSI's decision means that all of those bets were automatic losers before they were even made except the lucky few placed on their "division winners."

    Quick example: A player I know, a helluva guy, really -- let's call him NicePeopleRock -- has a sizeable DSI position on the Flyers to win the Metropolitan Division. When the season was suspended, the Flyers were red hot and had closed to within 1 point of the division leading Capitals, so declaring them divisional losers when 13 games remaining on their schedule feels like a pretty bad beat. As an added kick in the teeth, his final Flyers purchase was made March 10th, a hockey bet he managed to lose without a single hockey game being played.
    I agree the main reason its absurd to just grade like that is because not all teams have played the same amount of games, I highly doubt any regulated amd legal book would do that.

  20. #20
    rm18
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    I think I will get paid on rookie of the year it was a good sign BOL was offering odds on it during the quarantine.
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  21. #21
    MeanPeopleSuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post
    I agree the main reason its absurd to just grade like that is because not all teams have played the same amount of games, I highly doubt any regulated amd legal book would do that.
    Totally agree. I think the A level books will just no action division bets for NHL and NBA, but I was really impressed with Fanduel's creative solution on NBA divs you mentioned, above.

  22. #22
    MeanPeopleSuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm18 View Post
    I think I will get paid on rookie of the year it was a good sign BOL was offering odds on it during the quarantine.
    The NBA definitely is still going to award season long awards, so your Morant bet looks golden. Although ESPN tries to muddy the water a bit, we should probably forgive them as they've got a LOT of column inches to fill and nothing real to talk about: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...uld-win-season

  23. #23
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanPeopleSuck View Post
    Totally agree. I think the A level books will just no action division bets for NHL and NBA, but I was really impressed with Fanduel's creative solution on NBA divs you mentioned, above.
    Agree, one game could have made a difference in several nhl divisions too.

  24. #24
    bubba
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedApples View Post
    wow, good shit dude. I just verified what you said using the way back machine.

    april 16 and april 1 both have captures.

    on april 1 the rules showed what had been there for years.. 80 game minimum. april 16, rules were changed.

    no way that is coincidence. seems very very shady.

    my bets will def be influenced by this. i capped out on Brooklyn Nets pretty hard to win division. I'm owed $500-1k by previous rules.

    thanks for the information!
    can you post a link here showing the rules they changed after april 16th? thank you
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  25. #25
    MeanPeopleSuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba View Post
    can you post a link here showing the rules they changed after april 16th? thank you
    When the seasons were suspended I copied and pasted BOL's NBA rule:

    -- NBA Divisional Odds To Win:
    Teams must play at least 80 games in the regular season for wagers to have action. In the case of a split season and 80 games are played, the team with best aggregate record will be deemed the winner. If two or more teams are tied with the best aggregate record, both teams will be considered winners, and will pay off at 50% of the original odds. In a divisional tie in a non-split season, the winner is determined by the NBA tiebreaker procedure. Whoever the NBA deems the winner via their tiebreaker rules is the winner for wagering purposes.

  26. #26
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm18 View Post
    I think I will get paid on rookie of the year it was a good sign BOL was offering odds on it during the quarantine.
    BOL offering it means nothing. What matters is what the NBA decides to do. But they'll almost certainly vote on awards.

  27. #27
    mehoolio
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    5dimes

    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    for division bets, betonline has minimum games played

    nba minimum 80
    nhl minimum 77

    so at betonline the division winners will be canceled, conference champ/overall champ will still have action

    other books are for the most part going to use 5dimes rule... if the bet couldn't possibly win/lose then it is graded, otherwise no action on those division winners
    Where did you see the 5dimes rule?

  28. #28
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by mehoolio View Post
    Where did you see the 5dimes rule?
    Go to their rules. Ctrl+F for "division". It's in the general section. Not NBA or NHL.

  29. #29
    DISTROYA
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    anyone know DSI'S division futures rules for NBA? Have a sizeable one there, thanks.
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  30. #30
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by DISTROYA View Post
    anyone know DSI'S division futures rules for NBA? Have a sizeable one there, thanks.
    I would think they do the same thing for NBA futures as they did for NHL ones unless the NBA makes a clear statement on division winners. If you are in first they will grade them as wins, otherwise they will be graded as losses.

  31. #31
    DISTROYA
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    Thx Morino. Went to the website but couldnt find grading for shortened division winners.
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  32. #32
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanPeopleSuck View Post
    When the seasons were suspended I copied and pasted BOL's NBA rule:

    -- NBA Divisional Odds To Win:
    Teams must play at least 80 games in the regular season for wagers to have action. In the case of a split season and 80 games are played, the team with best aggregate record will be deemed the winner. If two or more teams are tied with the best aggregate record, both teams will be considered winners, and will pay off at 50% of the original odds. In a divisional tie in a non-split season, the winner is determined by the NBA tiebreaker procedure. Whoever the NBA deems the winner via their tiebreaker rules is the winner for wagering purposes.
    You didn't happen to copy any rules related to player regular season futures, did you? I have a bunch of those and don't see anything about that in the current rules.

  33. #33
    bubba
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanPeopleSuck View Post
    When the seasons were suspended I copied and pasted BOL's NBA rule:

    -- NBA Divisional Odds To Win:
    Teams must play at least 80 games in the regular season for wagers to have action. In the case of a split season and 80 games are played, the team with best aggregate record will be deemed the winner. If two or more teams are tied with the best aggregate record, both teams will be considered winners, and will pay off at 50% of the original odds. In a divisional tie in a non-split season, the winner is determined by the NBA tiebreaker procedure. Whoever the NBA deems the winner via their tiebreaker rules is the winner for wagering purposes.
    Does anyone have further proof of this rule than the copy paste? Anyone with a waybackmachine link or anything else to prove the website said this during the season? thank you
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  34. #34
    Shifty
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    Wayback machine link from April 1, 2020. The background and text are both black. You have to highlight the text with your mouse to see it. Thanks @milwaukee mike @RedApples and @MeanPeopleSuckfor pointing this out. Yes, very shady of BOL to change their rule after April 1st.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200401...les#basketball
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  35. #35
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    Wayback machine link from April 1, 2020. The background and text are both black. You have to highlight the text with your mouse to see it. Thanks @milwaukee mike @RedApples and @MeanPeopleSuckfor pointing this out. Yes, very shady of BOL to change their rule after April 1st.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200401...les#basketball
    Thanks. This answers my last question. I don't see anything in there regarding player futures. I can understand if they void counting stats (e.g. O/U 3 triple-doubles). I'm hoping they don't void rate stats (e.g. assists per game) because that should not be contingent on 82 games, and they're playing a significant percentage of the season.

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