1. #36
    daggerkobe
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    So what if he won championships without a great center? He had one of "50 Greatest Players of All Time" and future hall of famer Scottie Pippen playing alongside him. It was his lockdown defense on Magic Johnson that enabled them to beat the Lakers in 1991.

    Also if u look at the Bulls' opponents in the finals none of them had great centers either.

    Lakers had Floppy Divac who was softer than a ballet dancer. Suns had no center. Seattle had no center. Utah had no center. Portland had Duckworth but he was hardly great. So the Bulls didnt need a great center to beat those teams. Not to mention Paxson and Kerr hit clutch shot after clutch shot.

    The fact is the "greatest player in history" couldnt win more than 1 playoff game without Scottie Pippen. Its not like he never had help. He had "Iceman" George Gervin (yeah that Hall of Famer), Orlando Woolridge, Quinton Dailey, Paxson and Oakley and still get swept out 1st rd of the playoffs.

    Couldnt even make the playoffs with the Wizards even tho he had Rip Hamilton (future hall of famer) and Stackhouse (who won the NBA scoring title) in the weak weak east.

    Plus he's the worst GM in history (well tied for worst with Elgin Baylor) drafing the likes of Kwame Brown #1 overall and Adam Morrison.

    Biggest scumbag ever but of course the media is in love with him so they dont mention his adultery, punching teammates, freezing out his teammates, gambling debts, etc.

  2. #37
    WileOut
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    He had to go through Ewing, one of the best centers of all times to get to the finals most years. Seattle had Shawn Kemp who at the time was probably the most explosive inside force in the game. Utah had Karl Malone who is probably the best power forward to ever play the game. These guys may not have been technically "centers" but they were inside post up players.

    Jordan didn't even have a post up man to work with. Nothing but scrubs and Pippen, who BTW is not one of the 50 best. He is on the list but he will be booted out very soon when they update it.

    Kobe on the other hand has had the best talent in the league on all the teams he has won championships with, including the most dominant inside force ever. Take Jordan off those Bulls teams and they don't go anywhere. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they possibly make the finals.

    And talking about his days with the Wizards? He was like 40 then. Hamilton, Stackhouse? Are you kidding me? Hamilton will not sniff the HOF.

  3. #38
    WileOut
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    Back on topic, Jordan was the ultimate competitor. He would slit your throat before he would lose to you. That is what it takes to be the best.

    Maybe his speech should have been more appreciative, but who knows what his motivation was.

  4. #39
    bruceBRUCEbruce
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    Greatest player ever? yes. Big asshole and douche bag as well? yes.

    see; The Jordan Rules by Sam Smith

  5. #40
    daggerkobe
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    First of all, Jordan only faced the Knicks twice in the playoffs during their 6 titles. And Jordan didn't have to guard Ewing. They had a very good center named Bill Cartwright, a former All-Star who avg 20ppg with the Knicks, he limited Ewing to just 16ppg in their first championship title of 1990-91. They also had a very good center named Luc Longley (7 ft 2 in) who was a very good defensive player and also avg 10ppg with the Bulls. So it wasn't all Will Perdue.

    Secondly, Kemp & Malone were NOT centers. Also Jordan also didn't have to guard either because he had two defensive stalwarts in Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman. Both All-Stars and NBA All-Defense 1st Team.

    Thirdly, Kobe had what? If you think Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Samaki Walker are more talented teammates than Kerr, Cartwright and Dennis Rodman then I'd seriously question your basketball IQ. Jordan had numerous All-Star teammates throughout his career. Kobe had 0 (exluding Shaq) until Gasol arrived.

    Take Pippen off the Bulls and what happened? Jordan had 0 MVPs, 0 Titles, 0 Playoff Series Wins, .430 Winning %, 1 Playoff game win.

    Take Shaq off the Lakers and what happened? Kobe had 1 MVP (cheated out of another in 2006 when he led the league with 35ppg & led the Lakers to a near upset of the Suns after being a lottery team the previous season.), 2 Finals, 1 Title, .650 win%. All this with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker starting along side him.

    Who cares if Jordan was 40 or even 50 with the Wizards? He was still top 10 in the NBA in scoring and hadn't lost a step. Yet he was unable to make the playoffs in the weak east with the likes of Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse. But that's nothing new since he won just 1 playoff game in 5 seasons without Pippen.

  6. #41
    RoagBettor
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    What did the Bulls do when Jordan was "retired"?

  7. #42
    daggerkobe
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    What did Bulls do when Jordan was retired? They actually advanced past the 1st rd of the playoffs, which Jordan could never do without Pippen.

  8. #43
    RoagBettor
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    They didn't come close to winning a title.

    Just curious, did you get to watch Jordan play from his time at UNC throughout his career?

  9. #44
    RoagBettor
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    No player ever won a title by himself. Russell had Cousy, Jones, Havlicek et al. Bird had McHale, Parrish, et al. Magic had Jabbar, Worthy, Wilkes et al. Hakeem needed Clyde and Company before he won his 2 titles.

    Wilt the Stilt couldn't win a title averaging over 50 pts and 30 rebounds per game.

    Jordan may be the biggest asshole who ever walked the planet, but the fact is, like Bird and Magic and Russell, he could take good players around him and make them great. Pippen NEVER would have been a Top 50 player without Jordan, ever.

  10. #45
    daggerkobe
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    Yeah, because Jordan without Pippen came oh so close to winning a title..... oh wait, not only could he not advance past the 1st rd, but managed to win just 1 playoff game in 5 seasons.

    Without Jordan, Scottie Pippen led 1993-4 Bulls won 55 games (just 2 wins less than the previous championship season) and advanced to the 2nd rd of the playoffs. They were well on their way to advancing when Hue Hollins screwed them over with a fanthom foul call in game 5.

  11. #46
    Ralphie1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobHarvey View Post
    He's the most overrated player in NBA history.
    Quote Originally Posted by daggerkobe View Post
    0 titles without Pippen 0 MVPs without Pippen 0 playoff series wins without Pippen At least Kobe won an MVP and a title without Shaq.
    wow! Its really scary people can be this dumb. Its a 5 on 5 game. Everyone needs someone else. Look at the other group of guys he won with....steve kerr, luc longley, bill wennington, ron harper, bill cartwright, craig hodges, randy brown. I mean come the **** on. Michael is the truth, and for those whose panties are in a bunch over him, hes been a prick for years. Hes a winner, hes competetive. Michael would have won any way you cut it.

  12. #47
    daggerkobe
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    No shit Sherlock.

    I'm not the one claiming Jordan did it all by himself.

    But Kobe did win a title without a "Top 50 Greatest Player of All Time" next to his side.

  13. #48
    RoagBettor
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    The 50 Greatest Players of All Time was simply a marketing ploy by the NBA. How can you say who the Top 50 are when the league is ongoing?

    Kobe is great, and one day he may be considered as great or greater than Jordan. But he ain't there yet. And he's got his own baggage also.

  14. #49
    daggerkobe
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    Who on the 'Top 50 Greatest' list would you remove and who would you replace em with?

  15. #50
    RoagBettor
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    It's a stupid exercise, because you've got different eras over the years and aren't comparing apples to apples. You can't say Russell today would dominate, he wouldn't. Neither would most of the guys from his era.

    Kobe isn't on the list, so how many guys would he be able to replace? How about Lebron, D-Wade, Steve Nash? The list is extensive.

    I wouldn't call Robert Parrish one of the 50 greatest of all time, and I grew up in Massachusetts and watched him his whole career. Bird made him and McHale great.

    Bill Walton didn't play long enough in my opinion. I'm not sure Barkley belongs on there either.

  16. #51
    Domestic
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    Speech came across as bitter I reckon, I don't mind him calling out those that doubt him or whatever but there was no graciousness to add balance to it.

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  17. #52
    NBA Hero
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    MJ pinpointed to extreme those doubters that feeds his drive to be motivated and to excel. nothing bad about it, it is actually a welcome change cause i think that is normal to anyone who has a high testosterone level.

    russells reply to MJ is equally entertaining. guys are still fighters even after their nba days.

  18. #53
    UntilTheNDofTimE
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    Quote Originally Posted by daggerkobe View Post
    Bob is correct. I'd give him 5 betpoints if I could (doesnt work on iphone).

    Not only does he have a horrible .430 winning % and just 1-8 playoff record without Pippen but was the biggest asshole ever. He punched out several of his teammates and froze out teammates that shot the ball instead of passing to him. He was also the reason why Isiah Thomas was left off the Dream Team because he refused to play with him.
    Yes it does after you click the points add icon you need to scroll to the top of the page and there will be a pop up box for you to enter a amount and then click submit

  19. #54
    Dark Horse
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    Good speech. He shared what had motivated him. You don't just become great because you have a dream. You need to sink your teeth into things that motivate you. He was honest. And he revealed an important key to others. Much more interesting than another pre-chewed acceptance speech.

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  20. #55
    TheLock
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    Say what you want about the speech, Jordan is clearly uncomfortable with being a retired basketball player.

  21. #56
    jjgold
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    He might comeback and play 20 minutes a game at age 50 with a title type team.

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  22. #57
    RoagBettor
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    The NBA is so watered down that Jordan could come back now and average 15 pts per game

  23. #58
    ABEHONEST
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobHarvey View Post
    He's the most overrated player in NBA history.
    WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTT !Hello there ...wake up you're dreaming !

  24. #59
    Dark Horse
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    Let's face it. The HOF is about exactly nothing. Just because your name is on a plaque somewhere, that should give greater meaning to your life?

    I'm glad Jordan didn't buy into it.

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  25. #60
    ABEHONEST
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Interesting, he only mentioned guys that said something negative about him and how it motivated him and how he buried them all. It all started with the guy who beat him out on the HS team, he did it in a nice way but that was the message of his great speech, he praised no one. Interesting
    You must have watched a different video than I did ?
    Jordan praised "several' people,including his younger sister and two "small" brothers, Coach Smith,Pippen,and I think a couple more ?
    Get off that wine-sap JJ !

  26. #61
    williams22
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    I find it interesting that this bitter speech comes at the same time as Lebron's tour to promote his new book and movie. The biggest difference is, if you read the book or watch the movie, they focus primarily on Lebron's teammates, coaches, and his support system along the way. At only 24 years old Lebron has more class and appreciation for those who helped him than Jordan ever will. And all the fuss about Lebron not shaking hands? Jordan made that a habit, as does Kobe, yet it goes unmentioned. I'm not saying Lebron is a better player yet, but certainly a better role model.

  27. #62
    brooks85
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    i loved the speech, the fire obviously still burning in him.
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  28. #63
    ABEHONEST
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    Quote Originally Posted by williams22 View Post
    I find it interesting that this bitter speech comes at the same time as Lebron's tour to promote his new book and movie. The biggest difference is, if you read the book or watch the movie, they focus primarily on Lebron's teammates, coaches, and his support system along the way. At only 24 years old Lebron has more class and appreciation for those who helped him than Jordan ever will. And all the fuss about Lebron not shaking hands? Jordan made that a habit, as does Kobe, yet it goes unmentioned. I'm not saying Lebron is a better player yet, but certainly a better role model.
    A better role model ?
    No way !
    All Jordan did was WIN,WIN,WIN !
    Now that's a good role model !
    Lebron seem's to love the limelight a bit too much.
    He better focus on improving his game and finding a way to win like the "Greatest Role Model" the NBA has ever hand ,MICHEAL JORDAN !

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