[William Walters]

All the butthurt clowns in this thread..... too funny. Sorry King Kobe has been ass-slamming your playoff hopes for the last dozen years.

Lakers Baby....#1 franchise over the past FORTY YEARS.....BY FAR!!!!!! YES!!

[darkhat]

"The thing I am most thankful for is Kobe winning me those rings and purposely allowing me to average better stats due to his unselfishness" Shaq

[onlooker]

hey, we need to refer to the heat winning as a team when they win, but if they lose it's only Lebron's fault.

Exactly how it is.

[darkhat]

All the butthurt clowns in this thread..... too funny. Sorry King Kobe has been ass-slamming your playoff hopes for the last dozen years.

Lakers Baby....#1 franchise over the past FORTY YEARS.....BY FAR!!!!!! YES!!

[zsr]

Wow this argument is still going strong.

Both are great players. Obviously we all have personal bias towards one or the other so the debate will never be settled.

Btw, neither are all that clutch anyway. They did that study last year and Carmelo was the best player in the clutch since Jordan. Surprising. If Carmelo wins a ring he'll have to be in the conversation imagine the chaos then

[onlooker]

They did that study last year and Carmelo was the beat player in the clutch since Jordan. Surprising. If Carmelo wins a ring he'll have to be in the conversation imagine the chaos then

Who?

[zsr]

That actually made me curious so I looked up playoff game winners/ game tying shots, now I'm a big Kobe fan, but for the people that want to compare him to Jordan, look away.

Jordan 50% in playoff game winning situations, significantly better then all modern players besides ray allen?

Kobe 28%

Lebron 41%

Of course lebrons effort in the finals has to be taken into account here..

Kobe and Lebron both overall including regular season both low 30%, Carmelo at like 47

[beerman2619]

Its Kobe time now time for a game winner in LA game tied

[zsr]

Smart pass

[dlunc3]

Kobe taking terrible selfish shots on each of the previous possessions... Glad fisher could pick up that 28% shooters slack to end it... That is why Kobe needs to pass more often

[onlooker]

7 for 22. 14 points.

[zsr]

Kobe does need to pass more often, I have no clue why he doesn't seem to want feed Bynum and gasol to make life easier for himself.

One bad game doesn't take way from what he's done this season obviously lol. Let's not start this all again

[onlooker]

Kobe does need to pass more often, I have no clue why he doesn't seem to want feed Bynum and gasol to make life easier for himself.

One bad game doesn't take way from what he's done this season obviously lol. Let's not start this all again

Just razzin' you guys.

Lakers are better when Kobe isn't shooting 25-30 times. He almost reached that today, but they scrapped out a win.

They need to feed the big guys more.

[zsr]

I agree. If they want to make a deep run he needs to be a passer..Bynum and gasol could carry the team to the playoffs and he could take it from there.

[riffraff24]

People hating because theyve spent the last dozen years getting destroyed by the mamba. haha fukkin suckers

[TheThreeKings]

Regression to the mean hurts sometimes...

[kobefanatic]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...F9cAfEEvm8vLYF

[dlunc3]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...F9cAfEEvm8vLYF

kobe is 33 and on his way out... his career is concluding, and he has no chance to ever be as good as MJ.

Lebron is 27, younger then jordan was when he was his first ring. Lebron has accomplished more at age 27 then jordan did when he was that age.

Obviously it will be extremely tough for lebron to every measure up to jordan, as he has a very long way to go.. but at least he still has the chance

obviously jordan wouldnt compare lebron to himself, as his career is still just beginning


... I will continue to preach this point, as the lebron hate is uncalled for at this point in his career, and their is no argument in favor of it

[kobefanatic]

kobe is 33 and on his way out... his career is concluding, and he has no chance to ever be as good as MJ.

Lebron is 27, younger then jordan was when he was his first ring. Lebron has accomplished more at age 27 then jordan did when he was that age.

Obviously it will be extremely tough for lebron to every measure up to jordan, as he has a very long way to go.. but at least he still has the chance

obviously jordan wouldnt compare lebron to himself, as his career is still just beginning


... I will continue to preach this point, as the lebron hate is uncalled for at this point in his career, and their is no argument in favor of it

ok then continue your lebron love, will heat win it all this year?
kobe will have 2 o 3 more years of playing top level basketball

look at it this way who among the batch 96 till 2002 is still playing at a high level today like kobe, almost all the top tier guys are not all stars anymore, some are not even in the league yet look at kobe he can still hang around with the stars of today, playing in all star games, look at vince carter, tmac, AI etc they were once competing with kobe back then but look at them now, a bunch of role players and one is unknown nowadays

[PR9]

Anyone who thinks lebron has that FG% just because of fast breaks and layups do not follow the game of basketbal. First off, he developed a couple moves for his post-up game. And of course,

Lebron GREATLY improved his midrange game 2 summers ago. He used to be in the 30% some seasons , and in the 36% area in other seasons, and "below" 30% in others from 12-18 feet.

However, last year he was ASTONISHING from midrange at over 50%.. He was top-2 in the league shooting from that area and this year it's the same. Yes, better than Kobe from midrange.

Pay attention to the sport before making such claims, demens

He would not. The key word is easily and its not easy to do what you are talking about.

Can Lebron score 32+ if he took 25 shots? Sure, but how will that effect the rest of his game? What about his team? Will he still put up 7/7 boards/ast? I doubt it. .

What a silly comment. Lebron is a double-double triple-double BEAST. He has had two 30-5-5+ seasons in his career. Kobe has done it twice as well, but he's played many more seasons.. Wade has also done it once.

And lebron is in the company of hall of famers in that regard, it's a very short list of having 2+ 30-5-5+ seasons.. and he's just 27 with many more years left.

30-5-5 regular seasons
6 - Oscar, Jordan
2 - Lebron, West, Wilt, Kobe
1 - Wade, Kareem, Maravich, McGrady

And just to make Demens look even more silly, and showing how valuable following the sport actually is:

Players this year with 30-5-5 games:

LeBron James
12/25: 37 points (11-19; 15-19 FT), 10 rebounds, 6 assists in a 105-94 win over the Mavericks
12/28: 35 points (13-23; 9-9 FT), 7 assists, 6 rebounds in a 96-95 win over the Bobcats
12/30: 34 points (16-26), 10 assists, 8 rebounds, 4 steals in a 103-101 win over the Timberwolves.
1/4: 33 points (12-21; 9-11 FT), 13 assists, 8 rebounds in a 118-83 win over the Pacers
1/7: 32 points (11-17; 10-12 FT), 9 assists, 7 rebounds in a 101-90 win over the Nets.
1/13: 35 points (13-20; 3-5 3 pt), 6 assists, 5 rebounds in a 104-117 loss to the Nuggets.

Kevin Durant
12/25: 30 points (11-19; 2-4 3 pt), 6 assists, 5 rebounds in a 97-89 win over the Magic.
12/29: 30 points (10-16; 3-5 3 PT), 11 rebounds, 6 assists in a 104-102 win over the Mavericks.

Rajon Rondo
12/25: 31 points (11-19; 9-12 FT), 13 assists, 5 rebounds, 5 steals in a 104-106 loss to the Knicks

Kobe Bryant
1/3: 37 points (14-29; 7-9 FT), 8 rebounds, 6 assists in a 108-99 win over the Rockets.
1/10: 48 points (18-31; 12-13 FT), 5 rebounds, 5 assists in a 99-83 win over the Suns

Chris Bosh
1/5: 33 points (14-27), 14 rebounds, 5 assists in a 116-109 win over the Hawks.

Carmelo Anthony
1/4: 32 point (12-24; 2-6 3 pt), 6 rebounds, 5 assists in a 110-118 loss to the Bobcats.

Brandon Jennings
1/5: 31 points (12-23; 6-10 3 pt), 7 assists, 5 steals in a 100-103 loss to the Kings.

Kyle Lowry
1/14: 33 points (13-26; 3-5 3 pt), 9 assists, 8 rebounds in a 107-105 win over the Blazers.

Count:
LeBron James (6)
Kevin Durant (2)
Kobe Bryant (2)
Rajon Rondo (1)
Chris Bosh (1)
Carmelo Anthony (1)
Brandon Jennings (1)
Kyle Lowry (1)

Try to follow the sport kiddo

You can add a 7th for LeBron tonight:

1/17: 33 points (12-21; 5-9 FT), 5 rebounds, 10 assists in a 120-98 win over the Spurs

=-)

[jsmithj88]

lebron can lead the nba in either points, rebounds, or assists whenever he wants to
he does that within the flow of the game as well,
he gets his teammates involved, he is an all nba defender, he score efficiently, etc
he brings a LOT to ur team , he can improve the players around him with his play
but wat he struggles with is shooting and free throws, which is often magnified at the end of games

[dlunc3]

1. Who's better right now: Kobe or LeBron?


Henry Abbott, ESPN.com: LeBron. The competition is close as hell and not worth arguing about in a rational world. But ... James scores more efficiently. He rebounds far better. He gets way more assists. And he uses the ball less and plays better defense. He does turn the ball over slightly more, but not enough to tip the scales.

J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Kobe. LeBron can do more things, but Kobe is the one who seems willing to do anything to win. Kobe also is better at one specific thing: hitting the shots he takes the most. He's making 48 percent of his midrange shots; LeBron, 42 percent.

Tom Haberstroh, Heat Index: LeBron. Is Kobe scoring more? Yes, by a hair. But that is largely a product of relentless shot taking. In every other facet of the game, LeBron has him beat, which explains why Mo Williams is closer to Kobe in PER than Kobe is to LeBron.

David Thorpe, Scouts Inc.: LeBron. If now means any one play, it's a dead heat, as Kobe is just as capable of incredible plays as Bron. If now is one quarter, one half, one game or even one week, ditto. Kobe can easily put together an amazing game or stretches of games.

But for the last time, over the course of a season, while Kobe is still great, LeBron is the greatest now. There is no metric available that says otherwise, and my eyes and instincts concur.

Brian Windhorst, Heat Index: LeBron. Kobe is putting up incredible scoring stats so far, even though he's volume scoring. But LeBron is having the best offensive season of his career and continues to be one of the best defensive players in the league. LeBron is having the better season, but that is not to say Kobe won't have the last laugh. He usually gets the last laugh in the playoffs.

[dlunc3]

it is evident watching this game that kobe isnt even in the same league as Lebron anymore.... its really not even close

[riffraff24]

it is evident watching this game that kobe isnt even in the same league as Lebron anymore.... its really not even close

Maybe if you dont understand the game of basketball.

[dlunc3]

Maybe if you dont understand the game of basketball.

can you explain it to me? and also 4 out of the 5 ESPN analysts?

[CheeseHead]

it is evident watching this game that kobe isnt even in the same league as Lebron anymore.... its really not even close

Really? You're going to post in the middle of this game where the Heat are up by 15 and talk about how good LeBron is? Maybe he'll actually make some free throws at the end of this game if they can keep a big lead....if it gets close in the end, watch out. Heat are notorious for not being able to hit big free throws. LeBron is a great player, tons of talent..but he's not what you'd call clutch and he needs to improve his shooting at the free throw line. Not hating on Kobe or LeBron here...they're both great players, but let's not get carried away and say "LeBron is way better clearly because the Heat are beating the Lakers by 15 at halftime". Kobe is also a lot older than LeBron...Kobe has proven what he can do throughout the years....we'll have to wait and see what LeBron will end up accomplishing.

[dlunc3]

Really? You're going to post in the middle of this game where the Heat are up by 15 and talk about how good LeBron is? Maybe he'll actually make some free throws at the end of this game if they can keep a big lead....if it gets close in the end, watch out. Heat are notorious for not being able to hit big free throws. LeBron is a great player, tons of talent..but he's not what you'd call clutch and he needs to improve his shooting at the free throw line. Not hating on Kobe or LeBron here...they're both great players, but let's not get carried away and say "LeBron is way better clearly because the Heat are beating the Lakers by 15 at halftime". Kobe is also a lot older than LeBron...Kobe has proven what he can do throughout the years....we'll have to wait and see what LeBron will end up accomplishing.

I have said it on this thread since it opened, tonight is helping prove it...lebron is clearly better now at this stage of their careers.. that is evident.. big part bc like you said, kobe is a lot older (though said and done, lebrons prime will be better then kobes prime)

[TheThreeKings]

Lebron dominated tonight. Kobe doesn't impact a game unless he's scoring. His 24 points tonight were extremely misleading as 10 or more came in garbage time when he should have been on the bench instead. Not sure why Mike Brown didn't rest hist starters in the 4th quarter with another game tomorrow in Orlando.

[BernardMadoff]

Kobe quits in games, thats a fact, people should take that into consideration when calling him a top 10 great.

[PR9]

another 30/5/5 night for lebron

his league leading 8th of the season... no one is even halfway close.

1/19: 31 points, 8 assists, 8 rebounds, 4 steals and 3 blocked shots

heh

[jsmithj88]

http://www.nba.com/news/features/201...vey/index.html

nba did their annual GM poll where every GM had to answer a survey of questions.
they were not allowed to pick a player from their own teams....
heres 2 topic i found very very interesting:


If you were starting a franchise and could sign any player, who would it be?
T1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 37.0%
T1. LeBron James, Miami -- 37.0%
3. Derrick Rose, Chicago -- 14.8%
4. Dwight Howard, Orlando -- 7.4%
5. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 3.7%
Last year: Kevin Durant - 55.6%


surprised NOBODY picked kobe ????????
again, these are the GMs of the nba who voted


Who will win the 2011-12 MVP?
1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 55.6%
2. LeBron James, Miami -- 44.4%
Last year: Kevin Durant -- 66.7%

[therealdealau]

thats an age thing though mate, if kobe was their age he'd be in the picks

[darkhat]

Yah a game a few weeks into the season means everything.

[wantitall4moi]

If Kobe were 28 and people knew what they know about him now I still say he wouldnt be in the top 5. Kobe Bryant is a selfish douche bag. If he wasnt perceived to be so great he wouldnt be talked about at all. Or people would say exactly what they feel about him.

He grew up taking any shot he wanted because he had Shaq underneath cleaning up his shit. If Lebron had a Shaq like guy who could get his misses he probably would have shot a lot more shots and tried to pad his stats like Kobe did(still does 10 points in garbage time last night was 10 more points onto his list) Lebron had to carry a shit team with a shit coach, and he did it well. Now Kobe is in Lebrons shoes, the same shit coach and a shit team. One could actually make an argument this Lakers team might be slightly better than those Cavs teams. So take this year and the years upcoming to stack them against each other.

I dont like either one all that much but Lebron is a superior athlete and maybe more talented. He just doesnt have that instinct that Kobe has, but Kobe got that instinct through where he played and who he had helping him. If Kobe was on a team without shaq before he built a rep he would have been buried, and he probably wouldnt have turned into the player he is now. But he is still a ball hog, like he was then, he just has seniority, a rep, and a coach who seems to like having him shoot whether they win or not.

Now that Lebron has a couple guys to help him he has the support. He could do what kobe did when he had shaq. But at this stage lebron might not evolve into the ball hogging shot taker Kobe is. Kobe really shouldnt have either. But that is ancient history. So all the 'positive' things kobe gets credited for like 'killer instinct' and 'heart' were all a result of being a guy without a conscience who took any shot he could and hoped someone else bailed him out when he missed.

That is why I say Shaq left 8 years ago. Lakers were collecting rings like stamps but no one wanted to come there? Including coaches. After Rudy T (a joke hire) went down, and they had to replace him they had to have Jeannie buss bend over even more to beg Phil to come back, the 10 million + a year didnt hurt. NO one wants to be around this guy, unless theyre getting (over) paid. How many guys took less money to come to the Lakers? How about zero, because NO ONE came to the Lakers. Well maybe Ron Aretest who is another misfit. I bet Chris Paul did back flips when he found out that trade was squashed.

The history of it all shows you just how many people really want to play with Kobe on a full time basis. The answer is none of them. Even when they get asked questions about it him it is always the same canned answer "great player with a killer instinct" or 'veteran guy who can take over a game" both code for 'a selfish ball hog who is just older now but still thinks he needs to take every shot'.

[PR9]

^^ Shaq, who was the most dominant force I have ever seen from 98 to 03, hand delivered kobe 3 rings. Shaq was more dominant than Jordan in Shaq's prime. When shaq went to miami he was not the same, that's why he saw 10 minutes less per game with that bad back, and didn't see near the triple teams he saw in previous years when he was in LA.

And of course, for the last two titles, EVERY western conference team feared the Lakers dominant length in their front court. NO TEAM in the west could match up with the combo of Bynum/Gasol/Odom. And that is why the lakers breezed through that conference in the playoffs. No western team was fearful of Kobe the stringbean Bryant, they were fearful of the length of that front court. What was a very underrated aspect of that front court was that they could ALL PASS the ball very well for bigs. This was an added benefit that a lot of people miss.. To go along with their great rebounding allowing kobe to jack up more shots as he pleased. The bigs would get the rebound and rescue him from his shotjacking and chucking time and time again.

The moment Dallas got Chandler, to go with Dirk up front last year, and the moment OKC got Perkins to go with Ibaka last year, you knew the lakers run was OVER. Because those teams in the west FINALLY matched the lakers front court. And Kobe Is NOT, and NEVER WAS good enough to be the difference.

If you gave Lebron or Wade a PRIME SHAQ for 8 years like kobe had, those guys win more than the 3 titles that kobe was given.. And win more titles than kobe given the same teams he's had to work with in that conference that lacked dominant bigs

Kobe the stringbean bryant is the most overrated player in nba history