[crustyme]

nothing you said changes the fact rivers played with a torn acl does it? no minor surgery repairs a torn ligament.

the fact is he was able to play and play well with a knee brace. in fact there are thousands of people that play competitvely with torn or no ligaments everyday. its not life threatening.

again even with a torn ligament you are not a sitting duck. you can still move around. heck i was running full speed with a torn ligament. you just have to avoid pivoting and turning suddenly.

again if cutler was in serious pain he would not have been able to ride a bike, walk around and stand the entire 4th quarter.

heck if it were favre he wouldve told the staff to go to hell and gone back in.

[d2bets]

SBR posters don't want to let him facts get in the way of a good delusion rant from the comfort of their chair and keyboard. Not nearly as bad as the current players who tweeted shit from their couches. Karma is a bitch. And then jackass Jones-Drew who now claims who wasn't trying to criticize, he was just taking a shot at Urban Meyer. Can't even man up to to his statement. And coming from a guy who sat out Week 17 with the playoffs on the line. Unreal. And Deion Sanders? Dude didn't even want to tackle. Amazing.

[rsnnh12]

[QUOTE=RITZ;8519221][QUOTE=rsnnh 2nd degree sprain of the MCL is really not THAT bad."
from not hurt to this?

ok Dr Rsnnh[/QUOTE]

3 months from my doctorate in Physical Therapy, so you're not far off. I never said he wasn't hurt, he obviously was or he wouldn't have come out of the game. It still hasn't been 100% confirmed what he had, but if it was a grade 2 sprain with minimal tearing, he could have played.

Again, my biggest issue is w the training staff. He should have been either playing, or in the locker room having it iced and wrapped, not walking around on the sideline. He very easily could have made it worse by staying on the sidelines

[crustyme]

rsnnh is correct.

if sanchez can play with a torn cartilage in his throwing shoulder, then cutler can play with a sprained knee.

heck even jack yougblood played with a broken leg in the nfc championships and sb.

[Bob Loblaw]

nothing you said changes the fact rivers played with a torn acl does it? no minor surgery repairs a torn ligament. the fact is he was able to play and play well with a knee brace. in fact there are thousands of people that play competitvely with torn or no ligaments everyday. its not life threatening. again even with a torn ligament you are not a sitting duck. you can still move around. heck i was running full speed with a torn ligament. you just have to avoid pivoting and turning suddenly. again if cutler was in serious pain he would not have been able to ride a bike, walk around and stand the entire 4th quarter. heck if it were favre he wouldve told the staff to go to hell and gone back in.

And nothing you say changes the fact that he watched Volek try to win the Divisional Championship just like Cutler watched Hanie does it? The minor surgery didn't completely repair Rivers' injury but by his own admittance it was the only way he would have been able to play that game. Cutler had no such luxury of trying to get a quick fix. Why are you comparing your injury to Cutler's? All injuries are different. Everybody keeps ignoring the fact that Cutler went back out there with the injury despite the medical staff telling him not to. Reports are Lovie was prepared to play Collins at the start of the half before Cutler pleaded with him to give him a chance to play. He gave him that chance before the coaches and medical staff deemed he wasn't healthy enough to play and play effective. Cutler was visibly upset by that decision. Where to people get "quitter" and "soft" from that. Seems to me a lot of people jumped to conclusions and can't admit they were wrong.

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote=rsnnh12;8519689]

3 months from my doctorate in Physical Therapy, so you're not far off. I never said he wasn't hurt, he obviously was or he wouldn't have come out of the game. It still hasn't been 100% confirmed what he had, but if it was a grade 2 sprain with minimal tearing, he could have played.

Again, my biggest issue is w the training staff. He should have been either playing, or in the locker room having it iced and wrapped, not walking around on the sideline. He very easily could have made it worse by staying on the sidelines

The head physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers said quarterback Jay Cutler should not have finished the game and insisted he was fortunate that he didn't endure a more serious knee injury.
"With a little bit more force, the next thing to go, in that situation, is the ACL," said Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the orthopedic surgeon at Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles and team doctor for Dodgers. "So anybody who has a Grade II or Grade III that doesn't have an ACL injury is lucky."

[MMAchicka]

trading in those pts for a free play!

[crustyme]

without knowing what the surgery was for it would be pure conjecture on your part as to whether he would have played or not.

no surgery could have given stability to his knee other than a full acl reconstruction and isnt it your argument that without a healthy ligament a qb has no mobility? that obviously is not true since rivers played with a torn acl and was very effective.

and if i remember correctly rivers wasnt on the sidelines riding a bike and walking around after tearing his acl.

[hanco21]

He has been that way since Denver.

[rsnnh12]

[uote=rsnnh12;8519689]


The head physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers said quarterback Jay Cutler should not have finished the game and insisted he was fortunate that he didn't endure a more serious knee injury.
"With a little bit more force, the next thing to go, in that situation, is the ACL," said Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the orthopedic surgeon at Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles and team doctor for Dodgers. "So anybody who has a Grade II or Grade III that doesn't have an ACL injury is lucky."

Notice how I specified, "with minimal tearing". Grade 2 is anywhere from 6%-95% torn, so there's obviously a big gap. If he was on the lower end of that (sub 25ish), his ACL would not have been in much danger. And again, read the 2nd half of my post that you quoted... he should not have even been on the sideline, he should have been getting it iced in the locker room to reduce the swelling, to get a bettter idea of what was wrong. Most of the blame for this whole "was he really hurt" situation goes on the training staff, because they mismanaged this badly

[Bob Loblaw]

without knowing what the surgery was for it would be pure conjecture on your part as to whether he would have played or not. no surgery could have given stability to his knee other than a full acl reconstruction and isnt it your argument that without a healthy ligament a qb has no mobility? that obviously is not true since rivers played with a torn acl and was very effective. and if i remember correctly rivers wasnt on the sidelines riding a bike and walking around after tearing his acl.

So now you're saying Rivers is wrong about his own knee? For the 3rd or 4th time now, Rivers himself admitted that surgery was the only way he was going to be able to play. For the 2nd time now, walking and riding a bike for a few seconds isn't anywhere close to the same as playing QB in the NFL with a bad offensive line and bad receivers vs a defense like the Green Bay Packers. And for the millionth time now, it wasn't Cutler's decision to come out anyway. He sucked it up and played.

[Bob Loblaw]

Notice how I specified, "with minimal tearing". Grade 2 is anywhere from 6%-95% torn, so there's obviously a big gap. If he was on the lower end of that (sub 25ish), his ACL would not have been in much danger. And again, read the 2nd half of my post that you quoted... he should not have even been on the sideline, he should have been getting it iced in the locker room to reduce the swelling, to get a bettter idea of what was wrong. Most of the blame for this whole "was he really hurt" situation goes on the training staff, because they mismanaged this badly

Agreed he should have been icing it or something but when the reports come out of a grade II MCL Sprain then the "was he really hurt" talk should probably stop. But people love to hate I guess.

[jayroy25]

he is the biggest cockiest douche bag in nfl

[rsnnh12]

Agreed he should have been icing it or something but when the reports come out of a grade II MCL Sprain then the "was he really hurt" talk should probably stop. But people love to hate I guess.

I agree 100%

I never questioned if he was hurt, I questioned just how bad it was. Grade 2 doesn't really clear that up lol, because its not very specific. I certainly understand him not going back in, it would have definitely changed the way the offense ran. I just don't get wtf the trainers/doctors were thinking. He very easily could have rolled his knee or been hit by guys getting knocked out of bounds, and it would have been bye-bye ACL

[rsnnh12]

... double post

[crustyme]

no, im not saying rivers doesnt know pain. the day after i tore my own ligament i wanted to amputate my leg due to the excruciating pain and the swelling that tripled the size of my knee. im glad the doctor didnt listen to me! because the pain and swelling eventually subsided.

whether he felt the minor surgery was necessary or not is irrelevent. the fact is that his acl was still torn and he played well with a knee brace. so your premise that no qb can play effectively with a torn knee ligament is completely false.

[Bob Loblaw]

no, im not saying rivers doesnt know pain. the day after i tore my own ligament i wanted to amputate my leg due to the excruciating pain and the swelling that tripled the size of my knee. im glad the doctor didnt listen to me! because the pain and swelling eventually subsided.

whether he felt the minor surgery was necessary or not is irrelevent. the fact is that his acl was still torn and he played well with a knee brace. so your premise that no qb can play effectively with a torn knee ligament is completely false.

Well, I didn't put it in those words but at the same time did he play effectively? Losing by 2 scores with a 46.1 rating, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, and no rush attempts isn't effective in my opinion.

[crustyme]

according to espn medical analyst dr michael kaplan, injuries like cutlers typically do not require surgery.
so its not even that serious, definately not close to rivers acl tear.

its getting worse and worse for jay jay.

[asian.executive]

Cutler and Favre always lose when I play their teams

[Bob Loblaw]

according to espn medical analyst dr michael kaplan, injuries like cutlers typically do not require surgery.
so its not even that serious, definately not close to rivers acl tear.

its getting worse and worse for jay jay.

And according to the same doctor it's certainly not something you play on in the same day. It doesn't require surgery but it is a 3-4 week injury as is and has a very good possibility of turning into a torn ACL had he stayed in. That's a serious injury.

[crustyme]

rivers passed for 211 yds and kept them in the game as they were only down 2 after 3 quarters.

i dont know where you got 46.1 rating cause its actually 73.4 which is twice as high as big ben from this sunday. (nm entered wrong number)

and rivers has never been known as a running qb as evidenced by his 33 total rushing yards that season.

had he wore a knee brace the likelihood of a torn acl was about as high as breaking his neck.

[jgray]

And according to the same doctor it's certainly not something you play on in the same day. It doesn't require surgery but it is a 3-4 week injury as is and has a very good possibility of turning into a torn ACL had he stayed in. That's a serious injury.

I'm not sure why you are still trying. No matter what facts you present, he continues to ignore them and tell us about what he thinks.

The fact is Cutler was hurt. There's little point to this discussion beyond that. To me, this entire discussion comes down to a simple question. Why would a guy that has been on the receiving end of 100 sacks in last two seasons and always answered the bell choose the NFC Championship to go soft? It just doesn't make any sense.

[Bob Loblaw]

rivers passed for 211 yds and kept them in the game as they were only down 2 after 3 quarters.

i dont know where you got 46.1 rating cause its actually 73.4 which is twice as high as big ben from this sunday. (nm entered wrong number)

and rivers has never been known as a running qb as evidenced by his 33 total rushing yards that season.

had he wore a knee brace the likelihood of a torn acl was about as high as breaking his neck.

It's 46.1 as per espn.com, yahoo.com, pro-football-reference.com, etc. Any way you slice it he had a horrible game. Any way you slice it he still sat at the end of the Colts game that postseason. Any way you slice it Cutler went back into the game with his injury.

had he wore a knee brace the likelihood of a torn acl was about as high as breaking his neck.

Why are you playing doctor? I have already quoted actual doctors who said he never should have gone back in.

[Bob Loblaw]

I'm not sure why you are still trying. No matter what facts you present, he continues to ignore them and tell us about what he thinks.

The fact is Cutler was hurt. There's little point to this discussion beyond that. To me, this entire discussion comes down to a simple question. Why would a guy that has been on the receiving end of 100 sacks in last two seasons and always answered the bell choose the NFC Championship to go soft? It just doesn't make any sense.

I know. I like arguing though. I like backing up my opinions with facts while watching others back up their opinions with opinions and then changing those opinions when I prove them wrong with facts. It's fun for me

[Sharkl11]

cutler doesn't have what it takes to win the big game.

[crustyme]

big ben won a super bowl with 22.6 qb rating and afc championships on sunday with 35.5 rating. so its not all about stats as intangibles come into play also. but throwing for 211 yards and heres the interesting part.... he was sacked just once all game. there goes your theory again.

i can play doctor since i have experience playing with a torn ligament. so unless you can quote a doctor saying he couldnt play with a brace i will keep saying so.

you keep comparing a sprain that doesnt even require a surgery to a complete tear requiring major surgery and a year of physical therapy... there goes your argument.

btw no doctor would ever say anyone with injury should play, at least ethical ones. but the fact is rivers chose to play against doctors advice and doesnt take einstein to know he was in far worse shape than cutler and at a higher risk of injury.

[CaptainPrice]

Good call mcdaniels

[Bob Loblaw]

big ben won a super bowl with 22.6 qb rating and afc championships on sunday with 35.5 rating. so its not all about stats as intangibles come into play also. but throwing for 211 yards and heres the interesting part.... he was sacked just once all game. there goes your theory again.

i can play doctor since i have experience playing with a torn ligament. so unless you can quote a doctor saying he couldnt play with a brace i will keep saying so.

you keep comparing a sprain that doesnt even require a surgery to a complete tear requiring major surgery and a year of physical therapy... there goes your argument.

btw no doctor would ever say anyone with injury should play, at least ethical ones. but the fact is rivers chose to play against doctors advice and doesnt take einstein to know he was in far worse shape than cutler and at a higher risk of injury.

big ben won a super bowl with 22.6 qb rating and afc championships on sunday with 35.5 rating. so its not all about stats as intangibles come into play also. but throwing for 211 yards and heres the interesting part

The Chargers scored ZERO touchdowns that game. What were these great intangibles that led them to zero touchdowns?

.... he was sacked just once all game. there goes your theory again.

The Chargers line is not the Bears line. The Bears line cannot protect Cutler as evident by no player getting sacked more than Cutler. Cutler was sacked 52 times this year. Rivers was sacked 22 times that year. So no, there doesn't go my theory.

i can play doctor since i have experience playing with a torn ligament. so unless you can quote a doctor saying he couldnt play with a brace i will keep saying so.

A knee brace doesn't make the injury go away. Otherwise you would never see anybody miss time with a knee injury.

"Take one leg away, or part of it away, and it doesn't take much to collapse it. With a MCL, if you walk around being very careful and there's no lineman running at you at 25 miles an hour, you're good. But if you put the athlete on a playing field and he makes one wrong step, he's crumbling — and then you start damaging other ligaments. The athlete could sustain a career-ending injury if you were to take that risk." - Dr. Sherwin Ho

For the millionth time, it wasn't Cutler's decision to sit anyway.


you keep comparing a sprain that doesnt even require a surgery to a complete tear requiring major surgery and a year of physical therapy... there goes your argument.

Actually others brought up Rivers, I brought up the fact that he sat out just like Cutler. They didn't bring up the fact he had surgery to be able to play that way. They didn't bring up the fact that he was horrible in that game. I however did bring up Hines Ward who sat out with a similar, but not as severe, of an injury as Cutler's. But excuses were made for that one as well.

btw no doctor would ever say anyone with injury should play, at least ethical ones. but the fact is rivers chose to play against doctors advice and doesnt take einstein to know he was in far worse shape than cutler and at a higher risk of injury.

No doctor had to say anything. But multiple doctors not even associated with the Bears did and they said he shouldn't have played and they backed it with facts.

[antifoil]

nothing you can say to suggest pouncey isn't a bigger pussy than cutler. that guy is a patheic excuse for a football player. what kind of pussy doesn't play with a sprain ankle. all he does is hike the ball. he doesn't have to cut or anything just hike the ball and block. what a pussy. this is the kind of play you can expect from those urban meyer players like havin and his headaches.

[eberetta1]

I don't think he should risk a bum leg playing. Obviously their pass defense is suspect else he would stay in there. Better to sit out 2 or 3 games than play and injure yourself so bad that you never play another football game. Pays the same.

[tealish]

Isn't this what we do? We, being people who don't actually play the game at the elite level. We, being those who are ill-informed and not privy to any of the crucial information of this case.
But that's cool, NFL guys are supposed to be real men. Play through a heart attack, just get back in there. Refuse to leave the game no matter the circumstance. We don't know the details, but the details be damned. What a fcking p*ssy.
99% of SBR would've stayed in the game with anything less than a broken kneecap, and would have proceeded to gain 14 more first-downs. Easily.

[Donkwin47]

Complete overraction, dude's a lot tougher than most people posting in this thread..

[d2bets]

Is every player now going to be questioned for leaving a big game due to injury? Or are they now going to feel the need to 'act it up' so they aren't doubted? Is that what we've come to? Players risking their careers and hurting their teams because they don't want to be blasted as pussies by....pussies?

[newjerseydevils]

Is every player now going to be questioned for leaving a big game due to injury? Or are they now going to feel the need to 'act it up' so they aren't doubted? Is that what we've come to? Players risking their careers and hurting their teams because they don't want to be blasted as pussies by....pussies?

u da man. people lose bets and they blame the players. bunch of gamblers judging people who have gone on to do better things. typical. its really easy to criticize people

[crustyme]

the point is there's no doctor in the world that would ever tell an injured player to suit up and play. it goes against their morals & ethics and not to mention open them up to lawsuits if the player suffers a career or life threatening injury because of their advice. plus the suspension of their license.

so which doctor(s) told rivers to go ahead and play with a torn acl? ummmm none. he chose to go against doctors advice because he knew his team needed him and because hes a tough sob. if he can play with a far worse injury then why couldnt cutler? and yeah rivers was sitting down and not riding a stationary bike or walking around cause he was actually seriously injured.

so had sd won 3-0 over pats, rivers didnt inspire his team to victory since only touchdowns count? lol the fact of the matter is he inspired the team to stay within a fg for 3 quarters against a team that would eventually go 18-0.

i think the fact you compared cutler to hines ward is nuttier. a receiver is only as effective as their ability to run, cut and change directions. if they are hobbled in any way they are useless. a qb can hobble but can still make plays with his arm.

the knee brace i wore was recommended by my doctor because he knew he couldnt stop me from continuing to play and i never got reinjured while wearing one. i know tons of people that have no acls or mcls yet can ball thanks to knee braces. maybe cutler shouldve tried it instead of throwing in the towel.