[LordVodka]

Can someone explain to me.

Would we still be able to use offshore books?

Are they really gonna tax us 50% on winnings?

[Bill Dozer]

There is nothing in the works that will change online sportsbetting. Within two years we'll see state-run online poker rooms IMO...similar to Youbet horse racing.

[LordVodka]

But the US gov will never legalize sports betting right?

[peeiempee]

Has been discussed
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbook...s-betting.html

[alling]

a) how can they tax your winnings if your betting offshore?
b) new bill doesn't include sports betting
c) if your winning just bet in vegas where you can easily hide some of your profits

us government is filled with a bunch of dumfuk morons

[Chuck Sims]

Can someone explain to me.

Would we still be able to use offshore books?

Are they really gonna tax us 50% on winnings?

Just continue betting off-shore. Its up to you to report your sports betting winnings. Don't worry about the stinking govt.

[DukeJohn]

Can someone explain to me.

Would we still be able to use offshore books?

Are they really gonna tax us 50% on winnings?

H.R. 2268, the bill which you are referring to should not effect current foreign operators except to make it easier for us to fund them.

As for the tax bill, H.R. 4976, that has not even made it out of committee and I doubt it will, especially in its current form.

Also, I might add that HR 2268, maybe changed. It didn't rule out sports betting until the mark-up. Meaning it wasn't there at first but added later, which means someone could change it again and add more to it, or strike parts of it, so we will not know until it is finally voted on. However, it is a very slim chance, it will be removed.

Now, if the non-sports betting part stays, well, HR 4976 (the tax bill) was written without the knowledge of not allowing sports betting, so we would have to hope certain congressmen wouldn't allow that clause.

Anyway, time will tell.

[Fishhead]

There is nothing in the works that will change online sportsbetting. Within two years we'll see state-run online poker rooms IMO...similar to Youbet horse racing.

I really don't believe this.

[minet123]

I really don't believe this.

Fishy...come on you live in the heart on intolerance or at least at the fringes
Ok here is my challenge to you if you honestly think online sports wagering will ever get through
1)Call NFL on Park Ave and ask to speak to Marketing,Ask them how much money they contribute to PACS and to each individual congressman in the cities with teams
ask for a ballpark figure and remember that's just the NFL not each individual owner
2)One day where you are bored and want to remember what freedom is really all about,pose as a reporter for newspaper,blog,forum and call the largest Evangelical church in Tampa and talk to them not about their stance on online wagering but why they have that stance.Than ask them how many members are in the church and how many of them vote
Until guys like us get off our collective azz and go vote nothing will change

[Fishhead]

Fishy...come on you live in the heart on intolerance or at least at the fringes
Ok here is my challenge to you if you honestly think online sports wagering will ever get through
1)Call NFL on Park Ave and ask to speak to Marketing,Ask them how much money they contribute to PACS and to each individual congressman in the cities with teams
ask for a ballpark figure and remember that's just the NFL not each individual owner
2)One day where you are bored and want to remember what freedom is really all about,pose as a reporter for newspaper,blog,forum and call the largest Evangelical church in Tampa and talk to them not about their stance on online wagering but why they have that stance.Than ask them how many members are in the church and how many of them vote
Until guys like us get off our collective azz and go vote nothing will change

I'm stating that it is going to get WORSE with the new bill, not BETTER.

[mtneer1212]

Actually, I believe the bill will criminalize depositors to offshore books, or require the sender to pay a 50% tax if sending money. If so, this will be quite a deterrent in my opinion.

[minet123]

I'm stating that it is going to get WORSE with the new bill, not BETTER.

Opps.....
Being around all these Limeys and this dam weird language they speak

[increasedodds]

If this bill passes - a big if, it would be a nightmare.

Better get your deposits in now or live/vacation elsewhere when depositing. Get yourself nice and posted up and just leave money out there.

Here are some major holes in this bill - now just because there are holes doesn't mean the idiots won't pass it.

1. How are people going to know about this bill? 99.999% of sportsbettors never read forums.
2. The first thing the offshores will do is put that they are licenses just as they do now. How will anyone know whether they are depositing in a licensed or unlicensed book?
3. How is the government going to track this? It will be an absolute nightmare for the IRS.
4. Can you deposit if you are not in the US without paying the fee? If someone is in Canada or Europe and makes a deposit one would presume they don't pay the tax. If you buy a pack of cigarettes in Canada you don't pay US tax.
5. Is it constitutional? You would have a federal government licensing what should be state organizations.
6. What a mess for the WTO - can you imagine the appeals from Ladbrokes and others if you must be US based. That's a pure violation of the WTO. Europe ignored the last one. They wont ignore this one if there are legit licenses.

In any case, we should all hope it gets stuck again.

They have this week (not happening). Then on vacation for a month. Then 3-4 weeks till the November recess. If it makes it till then it will not come up again for 3 years as too many democrats will lose seats.

I can't imagine with the banking stuff, healthcare, war, etc the democrats will spend political capital on this, but it could get jammed in some unrelated bill.

The one scary thing is they need someone like Frist in the Senate to jam this in. Given that Reid runs the Senate and I'm sure he's bought and paid for by Harrah's one must figure he might just be that guy - scary.

[increasedodds]

Barney Frank is very pro adults choosing whether or not to gamble. If you don't like the proposed 50% deposit tax, write or call him and express your displeasure. Make it clear that if this tax bill passes he will have restricted adult freedoms rather than increased them.

[mtneer1212]

This bill will have so many restrictions it will screw everything up.

[Doug]

US is a Shithole.

[ToNyyy]

Play locally

[bipolar]

god bless Canada

[timbo46]

keep the govt out of it.

[beanbag]

the gov just hates people losing money to other nations.. and putting the money over seas..

[coldhardfacts]

All gambling winnings, whether earned via offshore internet books or not, are currently taxable. HR 2268 does nothing to change that.

What it does do is impose on the depositor a tax of 50% on deposits to all "unlicensed" offshore sites. And since sports betting is explicity excluded from the bill, all sportsbook sites would be subject to the surcharge. This would be a nightmare. Making a deposit to an offshore site is not currently a crime. But if the bill passes in its current form, anyone who does so would be guilty of tax evasion if they fail to report the deposit and pay the 50% surcharge.

The good news is that this provision is widely opposed by the poker community, which is the bill's primary advocate, because it includes an "opt out" provision for every state. So, no sites would be licensed in "opt out" states, and all players in such states would be subject to the tax. I believe that most poker players will oppose the bill if the provision is not removed, and this will make its passage very difficult. I, for one, will write my congressman and senators urging them to oppose the bill unless the tax provision is removed.

[Sfritts8]

So many differing opinions and facts. The end game is so muddled, adults should have a choice as to how they want to spend their time and money, morality restrictions are laughable when gambling exists every day in every single aspect of society. Everyone gambles on everything, whether they know it or not, car insurance premiums, a gamble, running a red light, a gamble, eating bad foods and not exercising, a gamble with your health, not to mention the more obvious lotteries, horse racing, etc.

[coldhardfacts]

So many differing opinions and facts. The end game is so muddled, adults should have a choice as to how they want to spend their time and money, morality restrictions are laughable when gambling exists every day in every single aspect of society. Everyone gambles on everything, whether they know it or not, car insurance premiums, a gamble, running a red light, a gamble, eating bad foods and not exercising, a gamble with your health, not to mention the more obvious lotteries, horse racing, etc.

Everyone on this forum understands this. You're preaching to the proverbial choir.

But the US Government and all state governments, unfortunately, see things differently. And we need to do all we can to ensure that any legislation does not make things even worse.

[DukeJohn]

Okay, there seems to be confusion by some. There are two bills:

H.R. 2267:
Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2267

H.R. 4976:
Internet Gambling Regulation and Tax Enforcement Act of 2010
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-4976

The first one, 2267 has made it out of committee, however there are no fees or taxes associated with it at this time. The second bill, 4976, is the tax bill people talk about the 50% deposit fee. This bill has not even made it out of committee and is sitting in the Subcommittee on Healthy Families and Communities and the chances of making it out are extremely remote. I am sure there will be another bill for 2011 and we will see what that one says.

Now, there was nearly the same tax bill in 2009 called:
H.R. 2268:
Internet Gambling Regulation and Tax Enforcement Act of 2009
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2268

Now this bill does not have the 50% deposit fee however, it was basically replaced by 4976.

Anyway, you guys can read the bills if you wish at those sites listed above.

[coldhardfacts]

Okay, there seems to be confusion by some. There are two bills:

H.R. 2267:
Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2267

H.R. 4976:
Internet Gambling Regulation and Tax Enforcement Act of 2010
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-4976

The first one, 2267 has made it out of committee, however there are no fees or taxes associated with it at this time. The second bill, 4976, is the tax bill people talk about the 50% deposit fee. This bill has not even made it out of committee and is sitting in the Subcommittee on Healthy Families and Communities and the chances of making it out are extremely remote. I am sure there will be another bill for 2011 and we will see what that one says.

Now, there was nearly the same tax bill in 2009 called:
H.R. 2268:
Internet Gambling Regulation and Tax Enforcement Act of 2009
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2268

Now this bill does not have the 50% deposit fee however, it was basically replaced by 4976.

Anyway, you guys can read the bills if you wish at those sites listed above.

Appreciate the clarification. I'm now a little more optimistic that the final bill will not include the onerous 50% tax on deposits to unlicensed sites. HR 2267 does not, as you say, include the tax, and would seem to be acceptable. It would probably make deposits/withdrawals from sportsbooks easier (or at the very least maintain the status quo), even though they will not be licensed.

It is important that we understand the ramifications of whatever the final bill is that Congress votes on, and do all we can to defeat if it does include the tax.

[MJFtheGenius]

i predict in 5 years sports betting will not exist

[midnight777]

no as long as there is a market it will be around just like drugs.. never going to stop it...

[increasedodds]

If it doesnt pass this year, we are good till 2014..

Republicans get elected and no chance of passing in 2011 or 2012.

2013 nothing passes in year one.

Hope it gets stuck this year.

Our government is so inept. Rather than just legalize sportsbetting and collect a reasonable tax (say make the -105 -106 and take a point - everyone would play at usgovbook.com if they could at -106 and be paid instantly...) they listen to whoever pays them most - church and NFL/NCAA. NOw why the NFL and NCAA don't want betting I;ll never understand.

[ucbearcats1027]

ewverything will be the same

[ByeShea]

3. How is the government going to track this? It will be an absolute nightmare for the IRS.

Nightmare? It will be their pleasure.

Part of Obama's job creation was the hiring of 7500 new IRS agents. Per year.

What a dick.

[coldhardfacts]

If it doesnt pass this year, we are good till 2014..

Republicans get elected and no chance of passing in 2011 or 2012.

2013 nothing passes in year one.

Hope it gets stuck this year.

Our government is so inept. Rather than just legalize sportsbetting and collect a reasonable tax (say make the -105 -106 and take a point - everyone would play at usgovbook.com if they could at -106 and be paid instantly...) they listen to whoever pays them most - church and NFL/NCAA. NOw why the NFL and NCAA don't want betting I;ll never understand.

The problem is that Obama's DOJ has continued Bush's DOJ's policy of interpreting internet gambling as illegal under the Wire Act (many thanks, JFK and RFK), and has made enforcement a priority. They have seized funds of processors, issued arrest warrants for offshore operators, and made it clear that they will continue this harrassment. The status quo is fine for now, but just wait until a company processing your payout is busted and your funds are confiscated. Under the current situation, this is bound to happen sooner or later. And even if it doesn't happen to you or your book's processor, there is no doubt that fund transfers will continue to become more and more difficult.

Whether or not legislation is passed, sportsbetting will remain illegal as long as the major sports leagues are against it. But at least there's a chance, if the current bill is enacted, that internet wagering will diminsh or disappear from DOJ's radar and they will devote their resources to some issues that most of us feel are a bit more important like, say, I don't know, terrorism, corporate fraud, etc.

[increasedodds]

Can you name one DOJ bust or confiscation that started under Obama? It's not like he is going to stop the work that started in 2005, but I do not know of any investigation starting in 08 or later that has resulted in a seizure or arrest.

[coldhardfacts]

Can you name one DOJ bust or confiscation that started under Obama? It's not like he is going to stop the work that started in 2005, but I do not know of any investigation starting in 08 or later that has resulted in a seizure or arrest.

Well, since these investigations usually take at least 2 years to complete before any arrests are made or funds seized, and since Obama has been in office barely 1 1/2 years, I think that would be pretty difficult.

But what is indisputable is that his Justice Dept continued (and presumably is continuing) the Bush Administrations's policy of using the full weight of the US justice system to harass, arrest, and confiscate. There have been several big cases brought since he took office.

Look, you can believe what you want to believe, and frankly, I hope you're correct in your implication that this isn't going to be a priority for Obama and Holder. But the facts speak for themselves, and I'd just as soon take as many weapons away from them as possible before they use them.

[alling]

theres always nevada.
what me worry.