[bubba]

That would be absolutely insane. It would make it impossible to be profitable for any client. Sharp or otherwise. What is the fun in modelling a game, beating the price and then have the book adjust that price again after the game? It would 100% destroy the industry.

I would love to see which games these were. I am under the impression there was probably a fairly big line move, which often happens in these type of basketball games. 5Dimes probably was a little behind (asleep at the wheel) when adjusting the odds and then retroactively did so anyway. I believe that behaviour should be condemned to the fullest, as said before, it opens the floodgates. They are not blatantly wrong odds, they were only slightly adjusted for the most part.

As long as it's not a clear line error (offering +350 instead of +150), but a line where they were simply too slow to adjust odds, the bet should always, always stand and there should not even be a discussion about it IMHO. Imagine WillHill booking Man Utd VS say Wolverhampton tomorrow. Say Wolverhampton is at +600. Then during warmup, 2 key Man Utd players are injured and the Wolverhampton price drops to +400. Do you think those thousands of English punters would accept it if Willhill would simply drop their payout for every ticket booked? No, neither would IBAS and neither should any offshore client. It would be robbery, plain and simple. Or do you even think for 1 second they would also increase the payout for every Man Utd ticket booked? Nope, they wouldn't...and even if they did, by how much? They could add a few ticks to their margin every time. As I said, it opens the floodgates to every form of cheating for books. Doesn't matter if it's a small market or not.

I agree it would be insane. But regrading wagers after an event is insane (barring the most extreme circumstances). If this is being done otherwise, issue a fair warning. Dont hide it amongst hundreds of terms, embrace it!

[Alfa1234]

Alfa, unless we missed it in this thread - which is always a possibility with me! - we don't know what these bets were on. I don't know what triggered these bets to be regraded and it seems like I'm wading through a lot of what ifs and anger in here but not a lot of actual facts. Do I believe a steam move made right before a line change should be adjusted? Definitely no but I have no clue if that's the case here and I do stand by what I said in that I do not believe 5Dimes would suddenly start trying to grab what is essentially pennies to them off of clients out of the blue. Some may disagree with my belief in that and that's cool and why this forum is such a great place to bounce ideas off of each other. If we had more facts about what was bet, what was said, etc then I'd feel more confident with my opinion either way but I stand by they're not worried about trying to scam $12 or whatever at the moment. No way.

How about SBR asks them about those exact bets that were adjusted to clarify this, instead of trying to "defend and deflect"? Sorry if that sounds harsh but I am under the impression SBR staff is coming to the defense of a sponsor here instead of actually trying to get to the bottom of it.

[sadekmeister]

Hi guys,
it looks like my thread caused a big discussion here. That's good, because bookmakers should have the same rights as bettors.
At first I didn't intend to fill a complaint form, because was sure that it would end with 5dimes saying they had the right to do what they did, but as most of you took my side and important staff have been raised in the topic, I've just sent complaint and am waiting for 5dimes official standing.

[Alfa1234]

Hi guys,
it looks like my thread caused a big discussion here. That's good, because bookmakers should have the same rights as bettors.
At first I didn't intend to fill a complaint form, because was sure that it would end with 5dimes saying they had the right to do what they did, but as most of you took my side and important staff have been raised in the topic, I've just sent complaint and am waiting for 5dimes official standing.

Can you share the exact bets you made please, as well as the exact time you placed them? That way we can see the "fair market odds" and movements.

[qsgsg]

This shouldn't be left to drift away even if the sum is small. The book could be trying to "test the water" and i'm sure the next victim would be a big bettor.

[lonnie55]

This shouldn't be left to drift away even if the sum is small. The book could be trying to "test the water" and i'm sure the next victim would be a big bettor.

This could even be the idea behind it. Just take a bit of every account like 5-10 dollars, repeat it every 6 months or so with bets that are older than 2 weeks. If you do this to thousands and thousands of accounts, let it only be every 10th account it would make a huge difference in the end. Most people will not even notice or if they notice they will not complain because the amount is too small.

Who knows if it was a single case or not. We do not even know all the facts yet so every theory is pretty speculative anyway.

[bubba]

This could even be the idea behind it. Just take a bit of every account like 5-10 dollars, repeat it every 6 months or so with bets that are older than 2 weeks. If you do this to thousands and thousands of accounts, let it only be every 10th account it would make a huge difference in the end. Most people will not even notice or if they notice they will not complain because the amount is too small.

Who knows if it was a single case or not. We do not even know all the facts yet so every theory is pretty speculative anyway.

there is only 1 known incident of this in the history of 5dimes that we are aware of. there is no reason to believe this is some scheme to take a little bit from each customer. that is a ridiculous theory.

This reminds me so much of the case where sportsbook.ag confiscated funds for correlated parlays that their system accepted. How did sbr feel about that case? it must have been 5-10 years ago. Im sure sportsbook.ags (pretty sure that is the site) said they had every right to cancel the parlays. I dont think it made it right.

[bubba]

I dont think 5dimes is thieving. I think either we are missing info, or they have made a mistake that they will rectify.

[lonnie55]

there is only 1 known incident of this in the history of 5dimes that we are aware of. there is no reason to believe this is some scheme to take a little bit from each customer. that is a ridiculous theory.

Not yet. But the post-Tony era isn't that long. Let's hope it was and stays a single incident.

[semibluff]

Some of those price adjustments are too small to justify as a correction to a bad line. I personally don't care if an arber gets stiffed but the book should a least stiff them in a way that doesn't cause the rest of the betting community to lose faith in the book. By all means ban the guy or void the bets before games start. Adjusting odds in a petty way weeks after the event is just bad business.

[Wohlford]

Some of those price adjustments are too small to justify as a correction to a bad line. I personally don't care if an arber gets stiffed but the book should a least stiff them in a way that doesn't cause the rest of the betting community to lose faith in the book. By all means ban the guy or void the bets before games start. Adjusting odds in a petty way weeks after the event is just bad business.

5Dimes going too far even for the book sympathizers.

[Alfa1234]

Any update on this and any chance we will get the bet details? Or will this quietly go away without consequences?

[sadekmeister]

Any update on this and any chance we will get the bet details? Or will this quietly go away without consequences?

Alfa, here are bet details:

Ticket	Accepted Date	Risk	To Win	Amount Paid	Status	Wager

523577354-1

10/29/18 5:49am

$27.50

$25.00

$52.50

Win

10/29/18 6:05am Japan Basketball 11251 Aisin Seahorses Mikawa -4½ -110* vs Shiga Lake Stars

523577196-1

10/29/18 5:25am

$43.75

$25.00

$68.75

Win

10/29/18 6:05am Japan Basketball 11251 Aisin Seahorses Mikawa -175* vs Shiga Lake Stars

526026384-1

11/10/18 7:03am

$12.50

$27.50

$40.00

Win

11/10/18 12:30pm Rugby Union Other Sports 214 USA +220* vs Samoa

526813893-1

11/13/18 3:25am

$13.13

$12.50

$25.63

Win

11/13/18 1:00pm Volleyball Other Sports 404 Gentofte Volley -105* vs Saaremaa

524968902-1

11/4/18 6:12am

$11.80

$7.15

$18.95

Win

11/4/18 5:00pm AHL Hockey 11856 Hershey Bears pk -165* vs Hartford Wolf Pack

525398601-1

11/6/18 7:26am

$14.38

$12.50

$26.88

Win

11/6/18 2:00pm France Basketball 11574 Aix Marienne Savoie Basket -1½ -115* vs Roanne Chorale

525565968-1

11/7/18 10:44am

$12.50

$26.25

$38.75

Win

11/7/18 12:00pm Volleyball Other Sports 357 KS Cuprum Lubin +210* vs MKS Bedzin

525548252-1	11/7/18 5:35am	$9.40	$28.20	$37.60	Win	11/7/18 5:00pm Brazil Basketball 10407 Paulistano +300* vs Pinheiros
525548240-1	11/7/18 5:34am	$2.90	$8.70	$11.60	Win	11/7/18 5:00pm Brazil Basketball 10407 Paulistano +300* vs Pinheiros
525548198-1	11/7/18 5:33am	$2.20	$6.60	$8.80	Win	11/7/18 5:00pm Brazil Basketball 10407 Paulistano +300* vs Pinheiros

Poor chances for help from SBR, cause their first answer for my complaint was that everything was explained on the forum and many books would have canceled these bets

[infotimbo]

so, if I didn't make any mistakes, here is what you played and what you got (odds after deduction):



for comparison, on the right you can see the average closing prices according to oddsportal.com.

Looking at that, it seems to be impossible to get any sense into what exactly 5dimes was doing there.

[SnakesPicks]

5Dimes does whatever the hell they want. Good luck.

[lonnie55]

Looking at that, it seems to be impossible to get any sense into what exactly 5dimes was doing there.

creating a big discussion just for some bucks

[bubba]

Its just really hard to have 5dimes be an industry leader, yet expect customers to look at other places to know what the market odds are. 5dimes used to claim to set the odds on obscure markets (tony told me all the other places stole their work). This thread is disappointing.

[Microphone]

How does the American Hockey League get mixed in with all those other wager types? Seems bizarre.

[Grumsi]

How does the American Hockey League get mixed in with all those other wager types? Seems bizarre.

Yeah, it is so bizzare checking odds where some lame bookie felt asleep a bit too long. But of course, it will not be the bookie who will pay for their mistakes, it will be a player who will pay for bookie's mistakes. Just another proof that even A rated books are criminals!

[Alfa1234]

Seems simple. You placed bets on odds that were dropping all over the board. The odds were correct at the time and there is absolutely NO EXCUSE whatsover for them not to be honouring the odds you got. There is no palpable error, the only problem is they did not drop their odds fast enough. A book should never, ever, ever be able to get away with this and there is NO EXCUSE for their behaviour here. Being asleep at the wheel is not the client's fault and I will reïterate behaviour like this could open the floodgates for any kind of bad by actions by books.

If SBR has any decency whatsover and is not blatantly defending their sponsor, they should condemn 5dimes to the fullest and urge them by any means possible to stop this behaviour and get your money back. I have little hope in that regard though as I have come to the realisation SBR will defend their A rated sponsors almost all the time...

I'll be checking every single bet I ever placed with 5dimes I've ever won and if any of them drifted away from me after I placed them, I'll be wanting the "fair closing price" as well. I strongly suggest every other client they have does the same to send them a message.

[Wohlford]

Bump for Justice. Shame on 5Dimes.

[Alfa1234]

Bump, no comment from SBR anymore on this at all? No extra info, no nothing, hoping it quietly goes away...?

The last comment from Shari was basically "we don't know what happened so we're not judging, but I don't believe 5Dimes would do this for pennies". Well, now we do know what happened and it's 100% scandalous behaviour from 5dimes...

[Grumsi]

Bump, no comment from SBR anymore on this at all? No extra info, no nothing, hoping it quietly goes away...?

The last comment from Shari was basically "we don't know what happened so we're not judging, but I don't believe 5Dimes would do this for pennies". Well, now we do know what happened and it's 100% scandalous behaviour from 5dimes...

My guess is that SBR agree with this criminal statement!

"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

[shari91]

Bump, no comment from SBR anymore on this at all? No extra info, no nothing, hoping it quietly goes away...?

The last comment from Shari was basically "we don't know what happened so we're not judging, but I don't believe 5Dimes would do this for pennies". Well, now we do know what happened and it's 100% scandalous behaviour from 5dimes...

Please don't throw my name into a comment and paraphrase - rather poorly actually - what I said when it's not really that difficult to go one page back and see my actual words for yourself. I don't do that to you so please don't do that to me. Thanks in advance.

As for this case, I still do not know what's happened but I still believe 5Dimes wouldn't be randomly stealing what amounts to pennies. And just like I DID say in my last post you and others may disagree with my opinion and that's cool. It's precisely what SBR is for.

Hopefully this all gets rectified somehow some way soon.

[lonnie55]

I still believe 5Dimes wouldn't be randomly stealing what amounts to pennies.

It doesn't matter what you believe. They did.

Or do you think OP invented the whole story?

[Alfa1234]

Please don't throw my name into a comment and paraphrase - rather poorly actually - what I said when it's not really that difficult to go one page back and see my actual words for yourself. I don't do that to you so please don't do that to me. Thanks in advance.

As for this case, I still do not know what's happened but I still believe 5Dimes wouldn't be randomly stealing what amounts to pennies. And just like I DID say in my last post you and others may disagree with my opinion and that's cool. It's precisely what SBR is for.

Hopefully this all gets rectified somehow some way soon.

Alfa, unless we missed it in this thread - which is always a possibility with me! - we don't know what these bets were on. I don't know what triggered these bets to be regraded and it seems like I'm wading through a lot of what ifs and anger in here but not a lot of actual facts. Do I believe a steam move made right before a line change should be adjusted? Definitely no but I have no clue if that's the case here and I do stand by what I said in that I do not believe 5Dimes would suddenly start trying to grab what is essentially pennies to them off of clients out of the blue. Some may disagree with my belief in that and that's cool and why this forum is such a great place to bounce ideas off of each other. If we had more facts about what was bet, what was said, etc then I'd feel more confident with my opinion either way but I stand by they're not worried about trying to scam $12 or whatever at the moment. No way.

Tell me how I paraphrased it wrongly and why you still don't know what happened after the latest developments please. I did go back and read your comment carefully and then paraphrased, rather correctly actually IMHO. You are welcome to paraphrase any comments I make if you do it correctly as well.

You stated your opinion before the facts got known, they are now known and SBR is still ignoring it and not commenting on it. I did not mean to comment or attack you personally, but I think this has been outrageous behaviour from 5dimes and SBR is, IMO, doing all it can to ignore that fact and quietly make it go away. The facts cannot be ignored in this case, they are clearly stated in the thread.

[shari91]

And again you paraphrased incorrectly what I said. You need to remember that SBR isn't a three man/woman operation or even a 30 person one these days. If I tell you I don't know yet what's happened, I DO NOT KNOW. I read what it's in this thread and I'm for the third time standing by my belief that they wouldn't be trying to steal little amounts off of someone. Whatever more there is to the story I have no clue but that is it but I DO KNOW 95% of the time I've simply believed what's in a thread I've usually been made to look like a fool sooner or later. Hence why I now reserve judgment until I see actual proof.

As for you lonnie - please don't jump in and try to deliberately stir the pot. It DOES matter what I believe just as it DOES matter what you believe. We don't have to agree but imagine if it wasn't allowed. That's how opinions are formed... be grateful that we all have the chance to offer our say.

As I said before I hope this whole situation is rectified somehow soon. Since it appears that a few of you are hellbent on simply arguing for the sake of it, I'll remove myself from the thread now and leave it to others with more insight of the case to reply when details emerge.

[Alfa1234]

And again you paraphrased incorrectly what I said. You need to remember that SBR isn't a three man/woman operation or even a 30 person one these days. If I tell you I don't know yet what's happened, I DO NOT KNOW. I read what it's in this thread and I'm for the third time standing by my belief that they wouldn't be trying to steal little amounts off of someone. Whatever more there is to the story I have no clue but that is it but I DO KNOW 95% of the time I've simply believed what's in a thread I've usually been made to look like a fool sooner or later. Hence why I now reserve judgment until I see actual proof.

As for you lonnie - please don't jump in and try to deliberately stir the pot. It DOES matter what I believe just as it DOES matter what you believe. We don't have to agree but imagine if it wasn't allowed. That's how opinions are formed... be grateful that we all have the chance to offer our say.

As I said before I hope this whole situation is rectified somehow soon. Since it appears that a few of you are hellbent on simply arguing for the sake of it, I'll remove myself from the thread now and leave it to others with more insight of the case to reply when details emerge.

Which details are you waiting for, exactly? The exact bets and times those bets were placed? Or the odds movement after the bets were placed? Because those "details" are posted here, in black and for anyone to see. What other details could you, SBR or anyone ever wish for or what exactly are you waiting for? A signed confession by 5Dimes that they deliberately, unjustly took his money...? Come on...

You "hope" the situation is rectified...well, maybe SBR could try and help to rectify it by condemning 5dimes and getting this guy his pennies back, while making sure 5Dimes and no other sponsor book ever tries anything similar.

Edit: and yes, I am hell bent on arguing about it. As some of you may know, I often defend books and mostly give them the benefit of the doubt. I believe they want to do right by their players almost all the time. This time however, the behaviour is 100% outrageous and no book should EVER get away with something like this. This goes to the very core of betting and goes so far beyond anything reasonable that I cannot let it simply fade away. We cannot let this ever happen again. If I beat the line by 5 points on a bet tomorrow, I want to make sure I beat that line and I don't want to have to worry the book will adjust my payout by giving me "fair closing odds".

[lonnie55]

As for you lonnie - please don't jump in and try to deliberately stir the pot. It DOES matter what I believe just as it DOES matter what you believe. We don't have to agree but imagine if it wasn't allowed. That's how opinions are formed... be grateful that we all have the chance to offer our say.

In case of facts it doesn't matter what someone believes. Facts are facts. And as long as we both agree on the premise that OP is NOT inventing the whole story there is no space for any speculation. He already posted all the relevant details. As Alfa said, which details are you waiting for?

Your position here is 'calm down, it's only pennies, so don't cry like little babies'.

It's still a theft though, no matter which amount.

[JeremyLing]

I recently placed a wager on 5Dimes at +120.

Most other sites at the time that I made the wager had odds of +115 / -135, and the best odds (outside of 5Dimes) I saw were +115 / -130. Since I wanted to bet on a specific team, I decided to place the wager on 5Dimes.

3 hours after I made the wager, the line shifted to -110 / -110.

5Dimes canceled my wager, claiming that it was a "clearly erroneous line".

So it seems like they are starting to use this excuse more and more often when the lines move against them.

[Wohlford]

I recently placed a wager on 5Dimes at +120.

Most other sites at the time that I made the wager had odds of +115 / -135, and the best odds (outside of 5Dimes) I saw were +115 / -130. Since I wanted to bet on a specific team, I decided to place the wager on 5Dimes.

3 hours after I made the wager, the line shifted to -110 / -110.

5Dimes canceled my wager, claiming that it was a "clearly erroneous line".

So it seems like they are starting to use this excuse more and more often when the lines move against them.

The 5Dimes boat is finally sinking. It had a good run, but all things come to an end. Advice: withdraw your cash ASAP.

[Optional]

It doesn't matter what you believe. They did.

Or do you think OP invented the whole story?

She thinks that 5dimes have shown themselves to be responsible over many years.

Are you just trolling her or do you actually think she is claiming he invented the story??


Both of us think that if 5Dimes chose to make such token gestures to show this guy their displeasure, then they very likely have a great reason.

If they don't want to tell you that reason in public Lonnie.

Bad luck for you.


We are talking about around 50 bucks in adjustments. I don't care about the issue at all, or care about you acting like it's a big deal.

Dont play there if you dont trust them like we do.

[lonnie55]

Both of us think that if 5Dimes chose to make such token gestures to show this guy their displeasure, then they very likely have a great reason.

A great reason to correct odds on several different matches two weeks later? Which one is it?

[Optional]

A great reason to correct odds on several different matches two weeks later? Which one is it?

Both. Their rules allow it... plus if a manger in there actually re-graded bets for nickles and dimes like this, without some good reason to be bothering, I doubt they would remain a manager for very long.

[HedgeHog]

Just because "their rules allow it" doesn't make it right. Many Books have a written rule that only recreational bettors are welcome, and those deemed professional will have their winnings confiscated. Is SBR alright with this? I hope not. Regarding 5D, the bad line rule was never intended for Books to go back indefinitely. Instead it was meant as a remedy to a recent error. Further, I'm not even sure these were obvious line errors the OP bet into, so the whole thing smells. $50 or $5000 makes no difference to me. In fact it bothers more that 5D feels the need to confiscate chump change. 5D needs to issue a statement regarding this matter.