[HouseAdvant]

Edit by SBR: BetOnline has confirmed the player's ticket should be a winner. The prop will be worded differently in the future. His money should be in his account shortly.

______


I believe that this bet was graded incorrectly, but BetOnline isn't agreeing:


Future/Prop $218.99 for $54.75 NFL Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400 — Graded as a Loss.


When I ask them about this, here is there response:


"This email is to inform you that, we have reviewed your claim regarding the ticket wager 406143218, however please be informed that during the 4th quarter after a TD made at the Drive that started at the minute 12:15 New York Jet they have attempted a 2pt conversion that was fail. Since you took New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400 the wager in question was deem as loss due to fact that the Jets made this attempt."


And here is my response to them:


The / should be read as an or. The fact that it was a failed attempt means that there was no conversion and I should have won this bet. Otherwise, this bet of Conversion vs. No Conversion/No Attempt loses on both sides if there is a failed attempt which doesn't make any sense. Thank you.

[bubba]

I believe that this bet was graded incorrectly, but BetOnline isn't agreeing:


Future/Prop $218.99 for $54.75 NFL Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400 — Graded as a Loss.


When I ask them about this, here is there response:


"This email is to inform you that, we have reviewed your claim regarding the ticket wager 406143218, however please be informed that during the 4th quarter after a TD made at the Drive that started at the minute 12:15 New York Jet they have attempted a 2pt conversion that was fail. Since you took New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400 the wager in question was deem as loss due to fact that the Jets made this attempt."


And here is my response to them:


The / should be read as an or. The fact that it was a failed attempt means that there was no conversion and I should have won this bet. Otherwise, this bet of Conversion vs. No Conversion/No Attempt loses on both sides if there is a failed attempt which doesn't make any sense. Thank you.

It will get fixed eventually. Unfortunately the customer service is so poor it could take days or a week +. What should take 20 minutes and an apology may take a while. The best advice for getting a correction at BETONLINE would be to call wagering. I prefer to have my conversations documented so I prefer email/live chat but calling wagering is your best bet for expediting it. Their you will speak to someone who at least has a clue about wagering. I have had much more success getting them to grade things correctly that way with betonline. I feel you frustrations.

[HouseAdvant]

I appreciate it!

[HouseAdvant]

Judging from your response it sounds like you agree my bet was graded incorrectly. Is that right?
Do you think if I don't continue to pester them they will grade it correctly? I'm now at 4 messages. 2 live chats, and 2 phone calls with no progress...

[Optional]

I believe that this bet was graded incorrectly, but BetOnline isn't agreeing:


Future/Prop $218.99 for $54.75 NFL Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400 — Graded as a Loss.


When I ask them about this, here is there response:


"This email is to inform you that, we have reviewed your claim regarding the ticket wager 406143218, however please be informed that during the 4th quarter after a TD made at the Drive that started at the minute 12:15 New York Jet they have attempted a 2pt conversion that was fail. Since you took New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400 the wager in question was deem as loss due to fact that the Jets made this attempt."


And here is my response to them:


The / should be read as an or. The fact that it was a failed attempt means that there was no conversion and I should have won this bet. Otherwise, this bet of Conversion vs. No Conversion/No Attempt loses on both sides if there is a failed attempt which doesn't make any sense. Thank you.

The prop says there would be no 2 point conversion or attempt to make one.

It doesn't lose on both sides. It's your thinking process that doesn't make sense here (bolded part)

[HouseAdvant]

Would love to understand if I'm wrong and would appreciate if you could explain in more detail.

Side 1: Conversion +325
Side 2: No Conversion/No Attempt -400

Obviously, if there is no attempt at a conversion side 2 wins. Also obviously, if there is a successful conversion side 1 wins.

What is unclear is if there is an unsuccessful attempt, then which side wins?

I can't imagine side 1 winning in this case. And I bet on side 2 and there was an unsuccessful attempt — so it seems like neither side of the bet wins in this case.

Again I really sincerely want to understand this, so I appreciate it!

[bubba]

It's obvious based on both the words and the pricing. Side 1 wins if there is a succesful 2 point conversion. Side 2 wins if there is no succesful 2 point conversion (EVEN If there is no attempt) The wording is meant to make it super clear , yet has confused the grader of the wager (and betonline lines customer service).

Optional- your response has confused me. Are you saying its properly graded?

[Optional]

It's obvious based on both the words and the pricing. Side 1 wins if there is a succesful 2 point conversion. Side 2 wins if there is no succesful 2 point conversion (EVEN If there is no attempt) The wording is meant to make it super clear , yet has confused the grader of the wager (and betonline lines customer service).

Optional- your response has confused me. Are you saying its properly graded?

Yes I think it looks to be clearly graded correctly to me. And the odds sound correct.

"NFL Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt"

Means he is betting there will be no 2 point conversion or attempt at one.

[HouseAdvant]

I agree completely with everything you've said Bubba and your analysis about their attempts for clarity actually confusing everyone on their end.

[Optional]

I agree completely with everything you've said Bubba and your analysis about their attempts for clarity actually confusing everyone on their end.

If you try to re-think why you came to the conclusion that this prop was a loser on both sides the situation will become clearer for you;


How do you figure this prop would lose on both sides?

"Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400"

[Optional]

If you want to keep arguing your case, I'd suggest not hassling first line CS anymore.

Send an email and ask for it to be escalated to a manager for review as you don't agree with the CS decsion.

You can also submit an SBR sportsbook complaint form and get a second opinion from SBR admin.

[HouseAdvant]

Maybe it's best to frame my thinking as a question.

Here is the full bet —

Side 1: Conversion +325
Side 2: No Conversion/No Attempt -400

Which side of this bet do you think wins in the case where there is an unsuccessful 2-point conversion attempt?

[Optional]

Maybe it's best to frame my thinking as a question.

Here is the full bet —

Side 1: Conversion +325
Side 2: No Conversion/No Attempt -400

Which side of this bet do you think wins in the case where there is an unsuccessful 2-point conversion attempt?

Is that what the prop said?

Or are you just making it up that one side says "Conversion" and the other says "No Conversion/Attempt"



"Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - YES Conversion/Attempt +325" would be the winning side of your bet.

[mrpapageorgio]

Is that what the prop said?

Or are you just making it up that one side says "Conversion" and the other says "No Conversion/Attempt"



"Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - YES Conversion/Attempt +325" would be the winning side of your bet.

I have previously read the prop on BoL with other games and it says No Conversion/No Attempt as the second option. I don't remember the exact wording of the first option, but it's basically that a 2 point conversion will be successful (whether one would be attempted is irrelevant unless it is successful).

How I have read the prop is if a successful 2-Pt conversion is made, then it pays +325. Any other result is -400 (No).
Basically, the wording also grades the bet as a loss if no attempt is made instead of a push (which I think is where the confusion is).
2 attempts were made in that game and they both failed. The no bets should be paid from how I have previously read that prop bet on their site.

To the OP, if you Tweet @DaveMason who is the head oddsmaker for BOL, he may be able to help you out.

[Optional]

I have read the prop on BoL with other games and it says No Conversion/No Attempt as the second option.

How I have read the prop is if a successful 2-Pt conversion is made, then it pays +325. Any other result is -400 (No).
Basically, the wording also grades the bet as a loss if no attempt is made instead of a push.

2 attempts were made in that game and they both failed. The no bets should be paid.

To the OP, if you Tweet @DaveMason who is the head oddsmaker for BOL, he may be able to help you out.

Thanks Mr P.

How are you figuring a "No Conversion/No Attempt" prop should be a winner when 2 attempts were made?

Either the proposition was worded wrong, or the Yes side wins. There is no scenario I can see where the NO would win in this case.

[mrpapageorgio]

Thanks Mr P.

How are you figuring a "No Conversion/No Attempt" prop should be a winner when 2 attempts were made?

Either the proposition was worded wrong, or the Yes side wins. There is no scenario I can see where the NO would win in this case.

(I edited my previous post as you quoted it which may answer it, but I'll rephrase below)

From how I interpreted the wording of the prop bet (keep in mind this is from my memory reading it off the site directly, not from the OP):

If
A: A 2 point conversion is attempted at some point during the game AND it is successful.
Then yes wins.

If
B: No 2 point conversion is attempted during the game.
OR
C: A 2 point conversion(s) is/are attempted AND all of them fail.

Then no wins.


Or another way to look at it: Successful 2-Pt Conversion(s) o/u .5.


There was never a conversion, they were attempted, but they didn't convert. Conversion does not equal attempted.

[Optional]

(I edited my previous post as you quoted it which may answer it, but I'll rephrase below)

If
A: A 2 point conversion is attempted at some point during the game AND it is successful.
Then yes wins.

If
B: No 2 point conversion is attempted during the game.
OR
C: A 2 point conversion(s) is/are attempted but fail(s).

Then no wins.

AH thanks... now I get the thought process!

I was about to ask someone I trusted to give me an opinion as I could not work out the logic.




@ OP, send in the complaint form linked above and we can ask a manager to review it.

[moojoo]

Wording of the Prop should be
Conversion Yes/No.
How they wrote leave grey area for them to screw bettors.

[rangerz2478]

Maybe it's best to frame my thinking as a question.

Here is the full bet —

Side 1: Conversion +325
Side 2: No Conversion/No Attempt -400

Which side of this bet do you think wins in the case where there is an unsuccessful 2-point conversion attempt?

Written as you claim above, you are 100% correct. Confused how optional is siding against you here. For conversion to win, the attempt has to be MADE. You bet the opposite and won.

[rangerz2478]

Thanks Mr P.

How are you figuring a "No Conversion/No Attempt" prop should be a winner when 2 attempts were made?

Either the proposition was worded wrong, or the Yes side wins. There is no scenario I can see where the NO would win in this case.

No conversion/no attempt means that he only loses if the 2 pt try was MADE. If no 2 pt conversion is made, he wins.

[rangerz2478]

AH thanks... now I get the thought process!

I was about to ask someone I trusted to give me an opinion as I could not work out the logic.




@ OP, send in the complaint form linked above and we can ask a manager to review it.

Sorry opti missed this post before my previous comment. Ignore me,

[Optional]

Written as you claim above, you are 100% correct. Confused how optional is siding against you here. For conversion to win, the attempt has to be MADE. You bet the opposite and won.

I was wrong and understand after Mr P explained.

[rangerz2478]

Wording of the Prop should be
Conversion Yes/No.
How they wrote leave grey area for them to screw bettors.

Incredibly common thing for bol to do.

[HedgeHog]

BOL prop writer got lazy and caused great confusion. As MooJoo said it's a basic Yes/No bet on a successful conversion, with the stipulation that if there is no conversion attempted, then No wins. Pay the OP on his winning bet.

[mtneer1212]

The easy way to write this prop is as follows:

Will there be a successful two point conversion in the game?

Yes +325
No -400

[mrpapageorgio]

I was wrong and understand after Mr P explained.

Ok, now that Opti has conceded, let's all tar and feather him. :P

[HouseAdvant]

Great, thank you everyone. I filled out the complaint form and so hopefully I can get a resolution here!

[JoeCool20]

If you try to re-think why you came to the conclusion that this prop was a loser on both sides the situation will become clearer for you;


How do you figure this prop would lose on both sides?

"Game Props - New York Jets @ Jacksonville Jaguars - 2pt Conversion - No Conversion/No Attempt -400"

LOL There is either a conversion attempt or not. And you either bet yes or no on it.

He bet no and there was a conversion attempt.

They were only trying to word it in a way that shows it doesn't matter if the conversion fails or not.


But I had to edit this, because now I see that they blew it by not wording it right.

It is supposed to be that, there is either one attempted (which there was, and you lost) or there is not one attempted.

The "Yes" bet won, not the "No" bet. But the wording is wrong. They should have put "attempt" after the first part.

Where it would have read: "Conversion/attempt yes +325, no conversion/no attempt -400"

They screwed the wording up, so since they didn't complete the conversion attempt, you have a shot at getting

your money back when you know you really bet the side that lost.

(Unless you are going to claim that you KNEW you were betting that no conversion would be successful instead

of betting that there would be no conversion or attempt!)

In any case now you can go ahead and say/claim you knew you were betting no attempt would be successful

and try to at least get your money back. I hope you get it back.

[mrpapageorgio]

LOL There is either a conversion attempt or not. And you either bet yes or no on it.

He bet no and there was a conversion attempt.

They are only trying to word it in a way that shows it doesn't matter if the conversion fails or not.

It doesn't matter, there is either one attempted (which there was, and you lost) or there is not one attempted.

The "Yes" bet won, not the "No" bet.

No, the question was will there be a SUCCESSFUL conversion. There was no SUCCESSFUL conversion. BoL got wordy in their prop to ensure that even if none is attempted, it still counts as no instead of a push.

[ronald]

The player should be paid.

Seems quite straightforward to me.

[mrpapageorgio]

The player should be paid.

Seems quite straightforward to me.

It is, JoeCool is trying to make it more complicated than it is. Hedgehog summed it up perfectly, will there be a successful 2-Pt conversion with the stipulation no attempt counts as no (instead of a push)?
BoL made it more wordy than it had to be in trying to cover the scenario nobody goes for 2 during the game which is why there is the confusion.

[JoeCool20]

It is, JoeCool is trying to make it more complicated than it is. Hedgehog summed it up perfectly, will there be a successful 2-Pt conversion with the stipulation no attempt counts as no (instead of a push)?
BoL made it more wordy than it had to be in trying to cover the scenario nobody goes for 2 during the game which is why there is the confusion.

All we are doing is "guessing" at what they meant the wording to be. They NEVER put the word "successful"

with the word conversion in the prop bet or we wouldn't even be posting about this would we?

So as it stands, your "guess" is that the prop was a conversion would be successful yes/no. And that's fine.

My "guess" is that they left the word "attempt" out of the yes part of the bet,

and now they will have to refund the money.


Even the customer service guy told him "You bet no and there WAS a conversion/attempt made in the game."


But since the wording is screwed up, he is going to say/claim that he MEANT no conversion would be successful.


Well GREAT! I hope it works! Lets hope he gets a refund.

[JoeCool20]

No, the question was will there be a SUCCESSFUL conversion. There was no SUCCESSFUL conversion. BoL got wordy in their prop to ensure that even if none is attempted, it still counts as no instead of a push.

LOL Where did you get the word SUCCESSFUL? Out of your ass?

If the word SUCCESSFUL was in the prop bet, then it's crystal clear and we aren't on here posting are we?

[convick]

Book is wrong. I don’t think other side is Conversion/Attempt.

[milwaukee mike]

LOL Where did you get the word SUCCESSFUL? Out of your ass?

If the word SUCCESSFUL was in the prop bet, then it's crystal clear and we aren't on here posting are we?

i have bet that prop quite a bit and it does say "yes successful 2 pt conversion" vs "no conversion/no attempt"

betonline grades props wrong quite a bit, and sometimes it takes multiple efforts to get it fixed... they make things right but the process can be frustrating