[jimakos]

after you have placed the bet you received a message: this wager is subject to deletion.
and 17 sec after that a goal was scored.

why they should pay you?because you won!!!

Pinnacle must change something in the live betting section,but this bet is correctly cancelled.I have waited over a minute for a bet to be confirmed at asians.
These are the rules.No one wants to give you any advantage.

If you are right why pinnacle support didn't answer my question about the length of the danger zone and why at penalty kick or at goal they withdraw the odds? If they think some team has the advantage couldn't they easily withdraw the odds?
I tryed to find the lenght at the rules but there is not a word inside.

When will i know if my bet is accepted and will stand? At the end of the game? This treatment is from a sportsbook with grade F not A+. It is unacceptable to place a bet and although is accepted not to know if it will stand.

[Thremp]

Read moonbeams thread. The danger zone is supposed to somehow imply a team with some sort of advantage towards scoring. However, pinnacle puts this message up for almost every single bet, even if the game is at half time.

So it appears that there is really no way to avoid getting potentially freerolled?

[JoshW]

The number of live betting complaints across all sportsbooks is on the increase, and there is no real standard to work with. It will be interesting to see what type of standards books create. One would have thought Pinnacle would create a good system, but based on experienced players like durito, it seems the danger zone system doesn't jive with Pinnacle stated policy in emails.

[Dr.Gonzo]

So it appears that there is really no way to avoid getting potentially freerolled?

Don't bet live at sportsbooks where you don't know the rules.

[jimakos]

The rules?
I read the rules and there is not even a word about the length of the danger zone!!!
I asked them to tell me the length and they avoided by telling me about the vig other sportsbooks have!
As I can understand pinnacle voids the bets according to their will - profit not according to their rules!!!
They even have danger zone at half time (!) so what rules are you talking about?
I would even understand a 5 seconds danger zone before the goal but not 17 or more.

At the future I will also have my danger zone...
If I bet one Home team and the score goes wrong way I will cancel my bet according to my danger zone!
It's the same thing pinnacle did to me.
And I will also have it at Half Time interval.
Do you think pinnacle would accept it? I am A+ gambler!

[Thremp]

Don't bet live at sportsbooks where you don't know the rules.

I don't. But it seems there are no rules. "Rules" so broad that they can be interpreted in any way is ridiculous.

[Ace_of_Spades]

Pinnacle are generally pretty good.

[tachi]

The rules?
I read the rules and there is not even a word about the length of the danger zone!!!
I asked them to tell me the length and they avoided by telling me about the vig other sportsbooks have!
As I can understand pinnacle voids the bets according to their will - profit not according to their rules!!!
They even have danger zone at half time (!) so what rules are you talking about?
I would even understand a 5 seconds danger zone before the goal but not 17 or more.

At the future I will also have my danger zone...
If I bet one Home team and the score goes wrong way I will cancel my bet according to my danger zone!
It's the same thing pinnacle did to me.
And I will also have it at Half Time interval.
Do you think pinnacle would accept it? I am A+ gambler!

open an account at 12bet/188bet/sbobet

then you'll see that the 5-7 sec delay,which use the crappest recreational European bookies -lads,will hill, bwin,sportingbet etc.
is NOT the standard in the industry.

[Crnjak]

You are right - I prefer 188bet

[jimakos]

Pinnacle are generally pretty good.

They are among the best in the industry, but that does not give them the right not to pay.

My money was already being risked by placing the bet. I didn't know if City would definitely score or if at the next minute United will score and take the lead.
Pinnacle only collects the winnings from the small vig the have. They are not risking anything during livebetting and that is the reason they apply this danger zone crap!!! If after your bet a goal is scored, then they cancel your bet bacause of the danger zone, if there is no goal scored they collect the winnings from the vig-juice.

Other crap european sportsbooks like ladbrokes, williamhill etc you say, never cancelled a bet of mine after accepting it even if the goal was scored the second they accepted it.

Livebetting at pinnacle is like pregame betting... you can not win from it even if the team you are about to back is attacking. Not to mention that you never know if your bet will stand or not!

In this situation my bet was in no win for me, win-win for pinnacle.

[moonbeam]

I understand your complaint jimakos.Same happens to me.

But 496 Euro isnīt worth to make so much noise.

On the other hand Pinnacle really need to change this "danger zone" bullsh!t which reminds me of scam books

[jimakos]

I understand your complaint jimakos.Same happens to me.

But 496 Euro isnīt worth to make so much noise.

On the other hand Pinnacle really need to change this "danger zone" bullsh!t which reminds me of scam books

496 Euro (396 to win) are not worth making so much noise indeed.
But I think if you all complain about this danger zone they would realize that there are much better systems to apply to livebetting.

Anyway, pinnacle cs told me that they added 396 euros to my account and close it. The only thing I can do now, is to withdraw all my balance.

[eavesdropper]

Typical resolution at Pinnacle.. in case of any dispute, they let you keep the winnings but the prize is you'll lose your account. It sucks. I would not giveup my account for 400 euros..

[tachi]

Anyway, pinnacle cs told me that they added 396 euros to my account and close it. The only thing I can do now, is to withdraw all my balance.

bravo,you took your "winnings" and you can use them
at Bet365 with their 1.83/1.83 in livebetting
and a 5 euros maximum stake if you win.
Look at the good part: you'll have your beloved 5 sec delay.
........................................ ........................................
you should have asked firstly the more experienced players (not me)
if you are right or wrong.And then accusing Pinnacle.

[moonbeam]

496 Euro (396 to win) are not worth making so much noise indeed.
But I think if you all complain about this danger zone they would realize that there are much better systems to apply to livebetting.

Anyway, pinnacle cs told me that they added 396 euros to my account and close it. The only thing I can do now, is to withdraw all my balance.

To close your account for a 396 Euro complaint is very strange and harsh I think.

Did they use the same wording as this??


Dear Sir,
We have reviewed these wagers and find in this particular case the wagers were cancelled in error. Our review shows that losing wagers were cancelled in the past.

We would have preferred to call it a wash, but have chosen not to argue.

We have credited your account with the winnings from the two wagers and closed your Pinnacle Sports account.
You may process your using our normal withdrawal policies.

Kind regards,


Bridgette, Director
Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

[WileOut]

The number of live betting complaints across all sportsbooks is on the increase, and there is no real standard to work with. It will be interesting to see what type of standards books create. One would have thought Pinnacle would create a good system, but based on experienced players like durito, it seems the danger zone system doesn't jive with Pinnacle stated policy in emails.

Best place to bet live is in exchange markets created by other bettors not related to the exchange.

Matchbook for example will only cancel bets that are obviously wrong. Like a -700 bet taken when the odds should have been around +700. Anything much less than that and you just have to be careful you are taking the right team because people try to trick you.

[Thremp]

lol Pinnacle joining the other bush league clowns FML

[jimakos]

They sent me this email moonbeam

Dear Sir,
We regret you believe that Pinnacle Sports would take advantage of a client in an unfair manner.
We do not find these types of discussion ones we wish to engage in.
Therefore, we have credited your account with the winning amount of this wager, 396.00 Euros.
Your Pinnacle Sports account is closed.
Please return to your account to process a withdrawal for your entire balance.
Kind regards,

Bridgette, Director
Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

It's from the Customer Service Director.

I lost my account at pinnacle and they don't even think to change their livebetting.
Time will tell!
I am posting this as a fact. 08 FEB 2010
When they change the livebetting they have now, they should re-open my account.

[pjesnik24]

they will not reopen your account. they did not do anything wrong just the same thing asian bookies are doing for years already, when the ball is in danger zone it is pending until the danger is over when it is accepted. however, what they need to improve is their software and transparency about the accepted/cancelled bets. To be honest, I am surprised they gave you the 396 euros or moonbeam "his" money because they can have anybody complaining about a cancelled livebet now (of course, only if they lose) and get some free money.

pinnacle people, if you are reading this, just improve the transparency and improve your software and you will not have these kind of complaints any more!

[jimakos]

they will not reopen your account. they did not do anything wrong just the same thing asian bookies are doing for years already, when the ball is in danger zone it is pending until the danger is over when it is accepted. however, what they need to improve is their software and transparency about the accepted/cancelled bets. To be honest, I am surprised they gave you the 396 euros or moonbeam "his" money because they can have anybody complaining about a cancelled livebet now (of course, only if they lose) and get some free money.

pinnacle people, if you are reading this, just improve the transparency and improve your software and you will not have these kind of complaints any more!

''they did not do anything wrong'' but also according to your words ''just improve the transparency and improve your software''
You have a solid mind!!!
That is exactly what I am talking about...
''just the same thing asian bookies are doing for years already" What kind of example is that? The thing that asian bookies use the same crap does not give them the right to have your bets on the air based on their profit. Either they accept the bet or reject it. Either the bet is won or lost. They can not have it ''on the air'' with win-win option for them and no win for you (the price you got before 1 min is outdated so you lose if I am right). Do you also get the updated odds?

This kind of system the asian bookies use is a pure crap.
They do not risk anything.
They do not need to have the game supervised too.
That's why they play almost every game at livebetting.
That's why they have only a few markets to bet (1X2, HANDICAP, OVER/UNDER)
(the ones with big volume to win from the juice)
Computer is doing the job and you are risking your money without knowing if your bet will stand on not.
And yes I do not think pinnacle will re-open my account.
But I am positive this kind of betting is not in favour of the players!

[pjesnik24]

''they did not do anything wrong'' but also according to your words ''just improve the transparency and improve your software''
You have a solid mind!!!
That is exactly what I am talking about...
''just the same thing asian bookies are doing for years already" What kind of example is that? The thing that asian bookies use the same crap does not give them the right to have your bets on the air based on their profit. Either they accept the bet or reject it. Either the bet is won or lost. They can not have it ''on the air'' with win-win option for them and no win for you (the price you got before 1 min is outdated so you lose if I am right). Do you also get the updated odds?

This kind of system the asian bookies use is a pure crap.
They do not risk anything.
They do not need to have the game supervised too.
That's why they play almost every game at livebetting.
That's why they have only a few markets to bet (1X2, HANDICAP, OVER/UNDER)
(the ones with big volume to win from the juice)
Computer is doing the job and you are risking your money without knowing if your bet will stand on not.
And yes I do not think pinnacle will re-open my account.
But I am positive this kind of betting is not in favour of the players!

your bet was never "accepted", it was in danger zone, and the price does not get updated for any bet, meaning that if you bet on under and your bet is accepted 1 minute later you get much better odds than a minute later with same thing happening with the over bet where you get worse odds than a minute ago.
I am not sure if you understand the purpose of bookmakers, it is to make money for the owners, which means that betting was never supposed to be in favour of the players. however, they are trying to be fair (only because it makes them more money in the long run) and they are cancelling both, WINNING AND LOSING bets when a goal is scored. happened to me many times and I am sure it happened to moonbeam many times as well.
Only thing pinnacle needs to do is improve their transparency if the bet was really accepted or not. good luck on your 396 euros but I know that if I was a manager at pinnacle I would never give it to you because there could be hundreds of other people complaining when they cancel a winning bet and of course, zero players who will complain that they cancelled a losing bet which means that they can only lose...

[OnkelChris]

Totally agree. As Pinnacle cancelling both, winning and losing bets, they should never pay the money. Besides those players are sneering in secret about the closed account because they almost have multiple accounts there anyway. So in addition it is quite a harm for pinnacle. At the end of the day all honestly gamblers suffer from that. I just mention the recently burried sign-up bonus...guess why they did that? Well, just my opinion. Go ahead.

[jimakos]

Then why don't they reject the bet as it is at the danger zone?
Instead of rejecting it, they prefer to accept it under conditions and then cancel it?
Why they let the odds and not withdraw them if it's too dangerous for them?
I can not see how this is fair, can you?
How many people would bet on team B when team A has the ball and is on the attack?
The percentage might be under 5% (generous 5%).
That's why they let the odds and cancel our bets!
They lose much much more than they take when the team A is on the attack and a goal is scored!
It's called heavily backed in the bookmaker's language.
A+ treatment!!!

[jimakos]

I did not forced pinnacle to accept my bet.
I even told them that I would understand their choice to cancel my bet if the time between the bet and the goal would be 5-6 seconds.(before telling me the time is 17 seconds. database-goal)

[moonbeam]

[quote=pjesnik24;
[COLOR=#000000 !important]they will not reopen your account. they did not do anything wrong just the same thing asian bookies are doing for years already, when the ball is in danger zone it is pending until the danger is over when it is accepted. however, what they need to improve is their software and transparency about the accepted/cancelled bets. To be honest, I am surprised they gave you the 396 euros or moonbeam "his" money because they can have anybody complaining about a cancelled livebet now (of course, only if they lose) and get some free money. [/color]
[COLOR=#000000 !important][/color]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]pinnacle people, if you are reading this, just improve the transparency and improve your software and you will not have these kind of complaints any more! [/color]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]your bet was never "accepted", it was in danger zone, and the price does not get updated for any bet, meaning that if you bet on under and your bet is accepted 1 minute later you get much better odds than a minute later with same thing happening with the over bet where you get worse odds than a minute ago. [/color]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]I am not sure if you understand the purpose of bookmakers, it is to make money for the owners, which means that betting was never supposed to be in favour of the players. however, they are trying to be fair (only because it makes them more money in the long run) and they are cancelling both, WINNING AND LOSING bets when a goal is scored. happened to me many times and I am sure it happened to moonbeam many times as well. [/color]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]Only thing pinnacle needs to do is improve their transparency if the bet was really accepted or not. good luck on your 396 euros but I know that if I was a manager at pinnacle I would never give it to you because there could be hundreds of other people complaining when they cancel a winning bet and of course, zero players who will complain that they cancelled a losing bet which means that they can only lose...[/color]
[COLOR=#000000 !important][/color]
quote]


Your thoughts are absolutly right pjesnik. Thatīs the point. But I also complaint my cancelled losing wager here at SBR!

If they have a rule who says " we will void every soccer wager if a goal was scored within 60 seconds after you placed your bet"... everything was ok.

But Pinnacle donīt have this rule. Sometimes they void those bets, sometimes they donīt.

There is no transparency.

They do what they want

[Ruifgalmeida]

all live betting was complains, stop live betting is a cancer, did you know that 40% fo the bookies profits come from live betting.
Pinnacle is a A++++++ 400$ for them is nothing they deal with milions and milions of dolars every day

[kiwi]

did you know that 40% fo the bookies profits come from live betting.

Then 60 % comes from non live betting.

I like to make profit with live betting and non live betting.

If you adapt to the danger ball system and simply accept the rules there are plenty of winning possibilities (but I agree that Pinnacle's soccer live betting is very poor and the way the asian bookmakers offer it is clearly superior).