1. #1
    mentality
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    Warning - 12bet confiscated all (5.2k) of my winnings

    Hi guys,

    I signed up with 12bet a month ago and received their welcome bonus (20% on 1st deposit). I deposited 1.200 EUR and received a bonus of 225 EUR (it was the maximum one could get). I asked at the live chat about the turnover required and they told me I was expected to do 10x the amount of the deposit + the bonus, which means I had to make a turnover of around 15.000 EUR in the first month, no big deal.

    So one month passes and I have made like 60.000 EUR turnover thinking everything is good. Then, I receive a phone call from 12bet telling me that I failed to meet the requirements of the bonus and that they will deduct the bonus from my account and MAYBE some of my winnings. The representative couldn't tell me how many of my winnings would be deducted since it was another department's obligation to decide that.

    I told the representative that there must be some kind of mistake since I thought I had completed the turnover they asked, then she told me that in the bonus terms and conditions (yes, those small letters that we never read) it clearly says that all bets should be above odds of 2.00 in order to be valid for the bonus turnover.

    The next day I receive this e-mail:

    Dear Mr. XXXX,

    Please be informed that due to bonus turnover has not been completed within 30days, below deductions were done in your account.

    1. Deduct Bonus Amt : Euro 225
    2. Deduct all winnings: Euro 5,186.60
    Total deduction:Euro 5,411.6

    Remaining balance of Euro 1,200 can be withdrawn.

    For further inquiries, please contact our 24/7 Live Chat or e-mail support@12csd.com


    Best Regards,

    Your Customer Service Team
    12BET Customer Service Department
    http://www.12bet.com
    I was furious of course and e-mailed them asking for my money back but as you can imagine they told me that due to the breach of the terms there was nothing they could do.

    I understand that legally I stand no chance on getting my money back since I agreed to those terms (obviously without reading them) but I want to warn you about the preposterous behavior of this company.

    - First of all you rarely get odds above 2.00 on asian handicap since it's 1.95-1.95.
    - Secondly I never thought I would be risking my winnings also. This is the first time I hear a company confiscating winnings because the customer didn't meet the turnover requirements. Most of the times the worst case scenario is they take back the bonus or they don't let you withdraw until you complete the rollover.
    - In addition, my winnings were hardly produced by their bonus, it's not like they confiscated the bonus and 20% of my winnings, which would be the proportion of the bonus to my initial deposit. No, they confiscated everything as if all my winnings were produced by the extra 225 EUR they added to my 1.2000 EUR initial deposit.
    - Finally, it's not like I tried to make a fake turnover and cheat them. I had like 60.000 EUR turnover (probably even more) at odds around 1.90 which I tried to explain to their managers but nobody seemed to listen.

    Personally, I feel like I've been robbed. Some could say it's partly my fault for not reading the terms but it doesn't change the fact that this company has unethical terms & conditions and will use such technicalities in order to steal your money. Of course it's your business what you do with your money but in my opinion you should stay away from this company.

  2. #2
    zebras99
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    I would like to be on your side with this one, but I can't. The bonus terms clearly state that bets <2 will not be callculated towards the rollover and next it says that all the winnings will be forfeit in case the rollover requirements are not met These terms are plain and square and they're definately not hidden.

  3. #3
    Hareeba!
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    Rule #1
    Read the rules first

    Rule #2
    Don't complain if you didn't heed Rule #1

  4. #4
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebras99 View Post
    I would like to be on your side with this one, but I can't. The bonus terms clearly state that bets <2 will not be callculated towards the rollover and next it says that all the winnings will be forfeit in case the rollover requirements are not met These terms are plain and square and they're definately not hidden.
    Indeed ... I also took their bonus and as soon as I finished the rollover (acording to my calcs) I asked them to verify it and they confirmed it.

    Mentality, my advice is that next time you check with the book if you have completed the rollover as soon as you think you did, and not wait until you have 4x needed rollover to find out that you are in trouble.

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  5. #5
    iqbet
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    It's a tough one. Your mistake.
    Maybe you can ask them to grant you a few more weeks to complete the rollover as a good will gesture.

  6. #6
    benandjerry
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    I read those terms when I was deciding between 12bet and dafa, I was slightly leaning dafa before but those terms made the decision for me. Its one thing to confiscate the bonus, but the winnings as well, when requiring over 2.0 odds when their main offerings are AH lines (and not like pinny who offers more lines) is downright shady. I'm surprised at how many says it fine, I agree terms are terms and they should probably be read, but these of 12bet arent fair play...

    Sorry to hear, hope it works out for you but doubt it does.

  7. #7
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by benandjerry View Post
    I'm surprised at how many says it fine, I agree terms are terms and they should probably be read, but these of 12bet arent fair play...
    You must be joking ... what terms are not fair? the terms a player should read and agree before taking the bonus? is 12bet or any other book pointing a gun at a player to take any bonus? so if you take a bonus and you dont check the terms and you have to complete a 60x rollover it means the book is not fair?

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  8. #8
    benandjerry
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    Quote Originally Posted by horja1 View Post

    You must be joking ... what terms are not fair? the terms a player should read and agree before taking the bonus? is 12bet or any other book pointing a gun at a player to take any bonus? so if you take a bonus and you dont check the terms and you have to complete a 60x rollover it means the book is not fair?
    Quote Originally Posted by benandjerry View Post
    I'm surprised at how many says it fine, I agree terms are terms and they should probably be read, but these of 12bet arent fair play...
    I think you missed the bolded part.

    Quote Originally Posted by mentality View Post
    - In addition, my winnings were hardly produced by their bonus, it's not like they confiscated the bonus and 20% of my winnings, which would be the proportion of the bonus to my initial deposit. No, they confiscated everything as if all my winnings were produced by the extra 225 EUR they added to my 1.2000 EUR initial deposit.
    This. Its not like all his winnings were generated by exploiting the extra bonus cash in his account, his winnings werent affected by it much, if at all, is my guess.

    Then again, I'm sure you encourage euro books limiting and kicking out winning players, or 12bet/dafa increasing juice for all euro player without advertising it or being able to address it via email. Sure, they follow laws, terms, rules or whatever you may want to call it. We just have a different view of whats actually morally correct.

  9. #9
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by horja1 View Post
    You must be joking ... what terms are not fair? the terms a player should read and agree before taking the bonus? is 12bet or any other book pointing a gun at a player to take any bonus? so if you take a bonus and you dont check the terms and you have to complete a 60x rollover it means the book is not fair?
    let's not be harsh here. just because something is in the T&C doesn't make it reasonable or even valid. there's a funny South Park-episode on this, but fact is anything which is in the T & C shouldn't be excessive or unlawful, otherwise it isn't valid in court even though the person agreed to it at the time. Imo, this rule is excessive, altough obviously no judge is gonna rule on this. But it's crazy to side with the book here: if they really want to be strict, take back the percentage of the bonus in winnings, but to take everything is borderline criminal, rules or no rules.

  10. #10
    FourLengthsClear
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    Many other books have a similar clause.

    Sorry for your loss but it is important to know the books' ts and cs.

  11. #11
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by noyb View Post
    let's not be harsh here. just because something is in the T&C doesn't make it reasonable or even valid.
    Sorry, but I still dont understand how you can have a point here ... again, no one forces you to take the bonus if you think the TC seem unfair/unreasonable ... go to another book who has better TC ...

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  12. #12
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by benandjerry View Post
    I think you missed the bolded part.
    ????

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  13. #13
    justonetime
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    Wow, that is an expensive lesson. As you know yourself, not much that can be done. At least you may have saved others from making the same mistake.

  14. #14
    psiwentyl
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    I have same problem withthe, althought mine is ricidolous. I agried with that scum with bonus as i nearly never bet there only on some cornerss betting and didint make that 15k rollover or so. i agried to get cut with bonus as i didint read terms and conditions wich is clear + the winnings but what now is the most idiotic part. It was all about 30 days as its said with bonus and rollover. They didint do anything after that , now after nearly 60 days only because i couldnt witdhraw and asked what is the problem they said they will make the adjustments and they did according to day 52 after my deposit. THe thing is that after 30 days i bet some more and althought its not any big ammouint its 3x higher than the won i won in first 30 days. And they took all from me leaving just deposit. Its their responsibility and fault here not to make it at once after bonus expired and i think they cant legally take my winnings after that period right?

  15. #15
    AlwaysDrawing
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    That's a pretty shady rollover policy. I'd imagine SBR has a low rating for this book, at least partially based on that policy.

    While technically within their "rules", having non-standard rules always leads to player confusion and anger. I'd be interested in hearing what Lou/j7 has to say about this practice.

  16. #16
    meckis
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    12bet should do a fair thing to player, give him at least couple of weeks to complete rollover.

  17. #17
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by horja1 View Post
    Sorry, but I still dont understand how you can have a point here ... again, no one forces you to take the bonus if you think the TC seem unfair/unreasonable ... go to another book who has better TC ...
    confiscating > 5k over a 285 euro bonus is excessive, whatever their rules may say. there's no justification imaginable for this kind of rule. that is my point. their rules are bs and would be thrown out in any court. bettors go along with this kind of stupidity as the gambling industry is so poorly regulated, they have no choice. but take a step back and think about what 12bet is doing here and how absurd it really is. the player risked a big part of his own funds, and a small part of 12bet's funds, yet it's all confiscated.

  18. #18
    psiwentyl
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    abc
    Last edited by psiwentyl; 01-26-12 at 10:56 AM.

  19. #19
    lukahh
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    uff. tough one.
    unfortunately you are responsible for reading T&Cs very carefully and you didnt do this.
    harsh punishment...

  20. #20
    relaaxx
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    seems very unfair - ridiculous rollover rules. must makes tons of cash screwing customers, that trust sportsbooks to have more standard rollover rules, so don't take the time to read every word.

  21. #21
    PD77
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    Those are ridiculous terms for a 20% bonus. I wonder how many others have been burned by this FU clause. If they were reputable they would take the 225 EUR back and leave the winnings alone but since it is obvious they don't want to pay up you are probably screwed.

    My advice is to not take petty bonuses. If it were 100% cash I would consider but 20% cash or freeplay is garbage especially when you money is tied down for an fu clause rollover.
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  22. #22
    mentality
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    Rule #1
    Read the rules first

    Rule #2
    Don't complain if you didn't heed Rule #1
    Class.

    I didn't complain, I already said this is my fault for not reading the terms. I am only trying to warn as many people I can to not make the same mistake I did.

    That said, 12bet knows exactly what they're doing with those absurd terms. Those terms were made to scam people off their money, not to protect the company from people who want to take advantage of their bonuses or whatever the reason of their existence is anyway.

    If you want to be critical, at least try to understand the nature of my post first.

    Anyway, it's amazing how so many people are with 12bet's side on this.

  23. #23
    PD77
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    I have read of similar things happening with larger amounts of money and the reputable books will usually work with the player by either taking a percentage of the winnings or tying a new rollover to the current balance. It is pretty clear here that this is not going to happen and they are not concerned about the publicity. But like you said mentality, maybe you can keep a few potential players from making the same mistake you did or better yet, keep a few potential players from depositing at all.
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  24. #24
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by mentality View Post
    Class.

    I didn't complain, I already said this is my fault for not reading the terms. ..... Those terms were made to scam people off their money
    How come I was not scammed by them? Maybe because I took the time to read the TC before asking the bonus. They often offer odds > 2, parlay bets also count, so the rollover is reacheable in 30 days. This is 100% your fault (and you agree to that), and 0% 12bet's fault.

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  25. #25
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by mentality View Post
    Anyway, it's amazing how so many people are with 12bet's side on this.
    The following are some of Bet365' rules for their bonus:

    11.Any bets placed containing selections at odds of less than 1/2 (1.50) will not count towards any rollover requirement.
    Bets placed on asian handicap, goal line and Baseball money line markets, both pre-game and In-Play do not count towards any rollover requirement.
    Bets placed on Financials which are closed early will not count towards any rollover requirement.
    Bets placed on Instant Games will not count towards any rollover requirement.
    So if you would take the bonus, not read the rules and make a lot of bets at lower odds than 1.5, or bet on asian handicap, goal line and Baseball money line markets you would say Bet365 is not fair and is taking advantage of the players when they'll take your money away? And people should say that you are right?

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  26. #26
    benandjerry
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    Quote Originally Posted by horja1 View Post
    The following are some of Bet365' rules for their bonus:



    So if you would take the bonus, not read the rules and make a lot of bets at lower odds than 1.5, or bet on asian handicap, goal line and Baseball money line markets you would say Bet365 is not fair and is taking advantage of the players when they'll take your money away? And people should say that you are right?
    I cant tell if you're serious.

    Those terms of bet365 are there to prevent bonus abusing. The case in this thread, and at least one of their terms for the bonus, has nothing to do with bonus abusing.

    I think everyone agrees that you should read terms though, but that doesnt change the above.

  27. #27
    mentality
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    This is really unbelievable that you are going to make me explain to you such simple things.

    Bet365 is offering a 100% bonus, in contradiction with 12bets 20% bonus, and their rules are so much softer.

    The rollover required in bet365 is 3x your bonus + deposit in 90 days period with bets having to be on odds above 1.50.

    The rollover required in 12bet is 10x your bonus + deposit in 30 days period with bets having to be on odds above 2.00.

    Not to mention the fact that in 12bet.com, since it's (or was) an Asian bookie, bets with odds above 2.00 are scarce due to the Asian Handicap pricing.

    I understand the companies trying to protect themselves from the so-called bonus-hunters but 12bet's terms are extreme, so extreme some could call it a scam.

    For the last time, I had like 60k turnover on odds around 1.90 and they confiscated all my winnings because they wanted 15k turnover with odds above 2.00 in 30 days (which is almost utopic for Asian handicap punters). It is beyond obvious that I was not trying to take advantage of their bonus and they are using a technicality to keep my money. Get it now?

    PS: And yes it's my fault for not reading the terms and started doing business with such an unethical company.

  28. #28
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by benandjerry View Post
    I cant tell if you're serious.

    Those terms of bet365 are there to prevent bonus abusing. The case in this thread, and at least one of their terms for the bonus, has nothing to do with bonus abusing.

    I think everyone agrees that you should read terms though, but that doesnt change the above.
    you are really funny ... a rule is a rule, regarding if it is to prevent bonus abusers or for something else ... 12bet has some rules for their bonus ... the OP broke the rules ... I agree that 12bet could have taken less money from him, but that is up to them...

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  29. #29
    horja1
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    Quote Originally Posted by mentality View Post
    This is really unbelievable that you are going to make me explain to you such simple things.

    Bet365 is offering a 100% bonus, in contradiction with 12bets 20% bonus, and their rules are so much softer.

    The rollover required in bet365 is 3x your bonus + deposit in 90 days period with bets having to be on odds above 1.50.
    Just answer this simple question (I asked already): if you would have broken Bet365 bonus rules and they would have taken some of your money would you consider them unfair?

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  30. #30
    AlwaysDrawing
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    In this case, I think the book has the right to take back 100% of the bonus. However, taking back the winnings is unjust.

    The argument that it's within their rules is not unreasonable--the punter should have known. That said, the bonus as described should not come with such onerous rules. Taking away 100% of winnings on a 20% bonus because of a missed rollover is overkill. At most he should lose his bonus and 20% of winnings, and SBR should ask the book to change their rule.

    As much as I want to say the OP is an idiot for both A) accepting such a poor bonus without understanding the rules, and B) playing with this clearly bad book despite living in an area with access to quality outs, I also believe this is an unethical business practice.

  31. #31
    mentality
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    @horja1 - The fact that I'm comparing 12bet's shitty bonus terms with bet365's healthy bonus doesn't say anything to you? Why would you ask me such a dumb question?

    @AlwaysDrawing - I would never have accepted the bonus had I read the terms. I didn't read the terms because the rollover was never an issue for me. I'm a full time punter and I never had problems completing the required rollover in the past (without even trying...).

    You guys don't have to twist the knife in every single post, I realize my mistake and I have admitted it numerous times already. This is not a cry-baby post, I only wanted to prevent others from making the same mistake.

    Anyone who has been in the betting industry long enough should realize that this bonus is a total fraud, I don't even know why I waste my time here.

  32. #32
    AlwaysDrawing
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    I'm agreeing with you. They shouldn't take all of your winnings.

    Did you file a complaint with SBR?

  33. #33
    mentality
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    I had several friends, who are respected in the betting industry (website and forum owners), e-mail 12bet and "threaten" that we will give them bad publicity and to offer me some kind of a compromise but you can imagine what 12bet's reply was... "Due to the breach of our terms and conditions blah blah blah".

    So, no I haven't filed a complaint thinking it would be a waste of my and SBR's time. The truth is they are legally covered since I agreed to those terms.

  34. #34
    AlwaysDrawing
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    File a complaint with SBR. You have nothing to lose, and you deserve at minimum 80% of your winnings.

    Assuming your side of the story is all there is, I would be surprised if it didn't help you.

    Here's the link http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

  35. #35
    benandjerry
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    Dont waste your time with horja1, not sure if he's trolling, but its obviously not going anywhere.

    I think its a good thing trying to warn others about it, when I first saw the rules I thought they had it in there just as a precaution for extreme bonus abuser cases but wouldnt enforce it otherwise (or just to the degree a bettor had benifited from the bonus), the way they implement it in this case is just absurd.

    Doubt SBR will do any good since you did agree to the terms, but as said, wouldnt hurt to give it a try...

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