[mentality]

You guys have a point, there's no harm in trying.

So I'll give it a shot I guess.

[PD77]

Hell yeah give it a shot. If nothing else it will bring 12bets attention to SBR and this thread.

One of the reasons you will not get much sympathy around here is because similar situations happen all the time and SBR posters are calloused to first time posters coming in here with a complaint/warning. 9 out 10 times all of the details emerge when SBR investigates and the person is discovered to be a fraud that was using SBR as a last ditch effort to try and get their money.

Good luck!

[korbal29]

mentality, I agree with always drawing, file a complaint and you should be entitled to at least half of your winnings...everyone is missing your point that those specific terms are meant to defraud ans I am pretty sure also that you are not the first one nor the last one that gonna be victimized by such fraudulant term... 12BET THIEVES!!!!! I AM GLAD I NEVER PLAY THERE

[mentality]

I filed a complaint yesterday with SBR even though I don't see a way on getting my money back. 12bet showed no good will to give me some kind of compromise like let's say more time to complete the turnover asked or some of my winnings back and I don't see them changing their minds but who knows. Anyway, how does this work now, I received the confirmation e-mail from SBR. Will SBR contact me for more info on my story (I think I have described it in full detail)? How many days do these usually take since I hear back from SBR, anyone knows?

[horja1]

12bet rule:

The bonus amount and all winnings will be forfeited if the deposit and bonus rollover requirement are not met within 30 days of bonus credit.

What is unfair about this? The rule is clear and is not hidden somewhere so you cant find it. Other books have 20x rollover ... would you consider that unfair or would you not take the bonus if you would actually read the rules?

... I agree that 12bet could have taken less money from him, but that is up to them...

Again, I agree that they could take less money from him.

Dont waste your time with horja1, not sure if he's trolling, but its obviously not going anywhere.

12bet pays me a huge amount of money for this


this thread has over 600 reads and only 38 posts (half probably mine) which means most people dont even consider this to be a real issue.

[benandjerry]

12bet pays me a huge amount of money for this


this thread has over 600 reads and only 38 posts (half probably mine) which means most people dont even consider this to be a real issue.

They pay you huge for what? Advertising for them? Speak good of them? Troll? I dont see how its relevant whether you win there or not.

Maybe the 600 reads has something to do with the fact that the title of the thread in question reads WARNING? Maybe some are checking it out because of that? For the record, the thread at this time just above this one about ACbet issues has 80 replies and 5k views which title reads WATCHOUT. Your logic of how you judge whether its a real issue or not is extremely flawed to say the least.

The point which you over and over again fail to comprehend is that nobody is saying that OP didnt do do wrong in not reading the terms, simply that that term and the way they chose to enforce it is shady. And no, I dont think most people would take that bonus after reading the terms.

We better just agree to disagree on that though as you think they are fine and I do not, lets just leave it at that. The ????, I make big bucks there lmao, only cos thread to x views and y replies makes it irrelevant replies doesnt really contribute to the issue (or non-issue for some) in any possible way.

[horja1]

They pay you huge for what? Advertising for them? Speak good of them? Troll? I dont see how its relevant whether you win there or not.

Maybe the 600 reads has something to do with the fact that the title of the thread in question reads WARNING? Maybe some are checking it out because of that? For the record, the thread at this time just above this one about ACbet issues has 80 replies and 5k views which title reads WATCHOUT. Your logic of how you judge whether its a real issue or not is extremely flawed to say the least.

The point which you over and over again fail to comprehend is that nobody is saying that OP didnt do do wrong in not reading the terms, simply that that term and the way they chose to enforce it is shady. And no, I dont think most people would take that bonus after reading the terms.

We better just agree to disagree on that though as you think they are fine and I do not, lets just leave it at that. The ????, I make big bucks there lmao, only cos thread to x views and y replies makes it irrelevant replies doesnt really contribute to the issue (or non-issue for some) in any possible way.

Sorry, but it seems you actually do not understand what I am saying ...

How about this: did you ever think that maybe 12Bet has that rule (odds over 2.00 for rollover) because they might want to increase betting volume on ML, livebetting or parlays (were you really have those odds > 2.00)?

[benandjerry]

Sorry, but it seems you actually do not understand what I am saying ...

How about this: did you ever think that maybe 12Bet has that rule (odds over 2.00 for rollover) because they might want to increase betting volume on ML, livebetting or parlays (were you really have those odds > 2.00)?

Generally speaking "the asians" as they are referred to are known for their asian line offerings, generally speaking they allow larger limits on those stakes. Regardless of what they might "prefer" me betting at, my point stands that that term is nothing but shady, and the way they chose to enforce it in a case where the bonus has had virtually no impact on the outcome of his winnings is downright shady. If they want you to bet on ML, live, or parlays they could simply confiscate the bonus ammount, and any winnings generated by it.

You think its fine, I do not (I dont think OP as well as the majority of bettors would, just the same way most objects to increased juiced, closed accounts, limits on winners etc, just because they have a "right" to do it cos its in their terms doesnt make it morally correct), lets leave it at that.

[Melissa7]

Did you use ONE212 or ONE228 as bonus code ?

[Digo]

Its the first thing you need to do when sign up for a bonus, read the terms and condictions... I am sorry for your money dude.

[Justin7]

You can't have a rule that says "If you win a bet on Tuesday, I cut off your left nut". It is unconscionable.

You can't have a rule that says "If you don't meet rollover with 30 days, I not only void your bonus, but I confiscate your winnings from non-bonus money." The rule is unconscionable.

This book is a scam book.

[damnasians]

Well said!

[allin1]

You can't have a rule that says "If you win a bet on Tuesday, I cut off your left nut". It is unconscionable.

You can't have a rule that says "If you don't meet rollover with 30 days, I not only void your bonus, but I confiscate your winnings from non-bonus money." The rule is unconscionable.

This book is a scam book.

if this is true this is pretty serious as they are a sponsor for an English Premier League club

[Melissa7]

So, if I sign up there, take the bonus, lose the deposit + bonus, did not meet the WR, will they remove the bonus, and credit my account to the deposited sum ?

[horja1]

You can't have a rule that says "If you don't meet rollover with 30 days, I not only void your bonus, but I confiscate your winnings from non-bonus money." The rule is unconscionable.

I personally do not agree with you, regardless if we are talking about 12Bet or any other bookie ... it is not a law, it is a rule ... no one enforces it on you, you chose to respect it or not when you take the bonus ... it is a personal choice everyone makes when they decide to take the bonus or not ... For example, some books require a 20x rollover for their bonus, other books require a 1x or 2x rollover of your initial deposit and only after that you'll receive the bonus and then you have a new rollover to complete - if you decide to take the bonus you cant complain afterwards, if you did not met the requirements and the book takes all/half your winnings, that the rules are BS (especially if you did not read the rules before).

I already was on both ends of situations like this, a few years ago: one time the book did nothing and let me withdraw all my winnings, but another time I lost a freeplay because I bet it on something I wasnt allowed to - the book let me place the wager, but the bet was decided "lost" even before the match ended and I could do nothing about it.

[Melissa7]

12bet should end that promo Not possible to wager, try it with 100$ limits per bet edit Mix Parlay Place Bet Error bet records must be more than 2 that is also bullshit

[georgeor]

12bet is regulated by the Isle of Man as far as it concerns the European action.
You can contact this authority here: http://www.gov.im/gambling/contactus.xml
They do reply, and they treat players correctly.

[scott235]

If what mentality says is true, this book DESERVES TO BE BURIED ON EVERY GAMBLING FORUM ON THE NET.

[kenwilber]

So, if I sign up there, take the bonus, lose the deposit + bonus, did not meet the WR, will they remove the bonus, and credit my account to the deposited sum ?

good point here.

12bet is really a scam book.

[Albator]

Of course Mentality should have read terms and conditions and that's totally normal , according to bonus rules, that 12bet confiscates him bonus and winnings from the bonus. However, there's something that doesn't seems to chock anyone here, despite Mentality mentionned it:

12bet confiscated him 5186 euros in winnings from the bonus !!!? I would like someone explain me how 12bet calculate that the amount of winnings from the bonus is 5186 euros ??? Mentality's deposit was 1200 euros, and his bonus was 225, so i may not be the best in the world in mathematics, but i hardly believe that 5186 euros from his winnings came from his bonus ??
Bonus represented only 20 % of his starting balance, but confiscating him all his winnings (they only let him his 1200 euros deposit), 12 bet considers all winnings came from bets placed with money of the bonus ??? That's a bad joke ? Everyone here doesn't stop repeating Mentality he should have read better the rules, ok, i understand, that's right...But that doesn't justify the amount they confiscated him ! That amount is difficult to estimate, but if we did it proportionnaly that should be 20% of his winnings, not more...

[tgoodm1]

I would like to be on your side with this one, but I can't. The bonus terms clearly state that bets <2 will not be callculated towards the rollover and next it says that all the winnings will be forfeit in case the rollover requirements are not met These terms are plain and square and they're definately not hidden.

How about the fact that the player CLEARLY asked a rep what the turnover requirements were???

We players shouldn't have to read the rules all the time. I would like to think that customer service actually serves

a purpose sometimes.

The rep failed to disclose very important information to the player when presented the opportunity. PERIOD!!!

SCAM BOOK in my eyes.

Horja1...you must still have funds at a scam book that. You aren't even remotely using reason here.

[horja1]

We players shouldn't have to read the rules all the time.

... stupidest line ever ...

Horja1...you must still have funds at a scam book that. You aren't even remotely using reason here.

0 USD ... not using 12Bet for the past 4-5 months ... and I am a recreational player, never had more than a 500 USD balance, regardless of the book

[bergerac]

Whatever happened to empathy? Thanks for highlighting your problem mentality. I appreciate it, even if others seem intent on castigating you for it. Seems they've changed the terms to odds of 1.5 and the period to 90 days for the February bonus.

[Melissa7]

heh, and raised the WR to 12x(D+B) .. plus you have a type there , 60 days

[filipinho]

Melissa7, it is 90 days.Now it is good bonus if they wont cut your limits in the middle of rollover...They still didnt change that rule which bothers the most:
9.The bonus amount and all winnings will be forfeited if the deposit and bonus rollover requirement are not met within 90 days of bonus credit.

But new proof that SBR matters, cause they very likely changed bonus terms because of pressure from here.I too, noticed them about this thread after the OP started it, and said that I believe their bonus rules are unfair.

[touchback]

Man..... all frickn night. My neck hurts from shaking my head. The rules are the rules are the rules. No one makes anyone take a bonus, period. Secondly, these are rules that apply to a bbbooonnnussssss... freeeeee coupon that represents mmmmooonneeyyyy. It is not money and if it was it still does not matter. They could say it is a 100x turnover/rollover.... and then that is what it is. So people accept the bonus and may or may not check the rules and regulations. Then they go on a forum and start yelling scam, cheats.. unfair.. or whatever other derogatory vocabulary they can come up with. It is bullshit, take responsibility for what you do and move on. Why am I annoyed? You are thinking this is no big deal. It is a big deal... an advocacy site needs the cooperation of the business s that it advocates with on the customers behalf. If everyone came on here acting like this then they and or their representatives would have nothing to do with SBR advocates./ A. advocacy site is just that, it works as a mediator and gives or makes available a open/public platform/forum for people to be heard. It only works if it is taken seriously and is respsected... this stuff is counter to the whole concept... and only undermines the true mediation powers of those that want to help posters. Dont take a bonus... anymore, anywhere. It is obvious you are incapable of reasonable behaviour, the nerve to take a bonus and read the terms... fail to meet the terms and then go out in public and not only complain but to use inflammatory vocabulary that is hurtful to a business that has done nothing wrong. Oh, and noooooo... I am not a shill for this service nor do I work for them. Grow up... and I do not want to even get into the friends in the industry and the threats. Only one scummy thing around here and it is not the service.

[horja1]

Melissa7, it is 90 days.Now it is good bonus if they wont cut your limits in the middle of rollover...They still didnt change that rule which bothers the most:
9.The bonus amount and all winnings will be forfeited if the deposit and bonus rollover requirement are not met within 90 days of bonus credit.

But new proof that SBR matters, cause they very likely changed bonus terms because of pressure from here.I too, noticed them about this thread after the OP started it, and said that I believe their bonus rules are unfair.

Lets tell 12Bet to change it to: 9.The bonus amount and all winnings will never be forfeited even if the player will not complete the rollover during his/hers life time ... will that be ok for you?

[horja1]

Man..... all frickn night. My neck hurts from shaking my head. The rules are the rules are the rules. No one makes anyone take a bonus, period. Secondly, these are rules that apply to a bbbooonnnussssss... freeeeee coupon that represents mmmmooonneeyyyy. It is not money and if it was it still does not matter. They could say it is a 100x turnover/rollover.... and then that is what it is. So people accept the bonus and may or may not check the rules and regulations. Then they go on a forum and start yelling scam, cheats.. unfair.. or whatever other derogatory vocabulary they can come up with. It is bullshit, take responsibility for what you do and move on.

[filipinho]

Lets tell 12Bet to change it to: 9.The bonus amount and all winnings will never be forfeited even if the player will not complete the rollover during his/hers life time ... will that be ok for you?

9.The bonus amount and all winnings produced as the result of this bonus will be forfeited if the deposit and bonus rollover requirement are not met within 90 days of bonus credit.

[sportsbetjunkie]

The terms and conditions of a betting portal are often very tricky. They require the reading of the fine print. It shouldn't have to be this way. I would suggest in the future you know exactly what you are getting yourself into before using any online or desktop betting software or before you participate on any sports betting/gambling sites.

[touchback]

You know.... sbj, another good point you make. If your chosen communication interface makes it so that you cannot even comprehend content like rules, then you are left with 2 options. You can stop what your doing and get another differnet form of communication e.g a desktop or laptop with full size screen and readable text or telecommunicate with a phone and talk to someone directly. By the way, this fake mobile shit is also crap. You cannot tell me anymore that you have mobile if it is just a browser and hopefully a lightened version of your website, at the least lightened because some places do not have enough sense to do even do that. These supposed mobile software programs are many times very slow becasue the business has not correctly lightened the website so it will load quickly, major problem. It is 2012, smart devices,, huge bandwith everywhere... blablabla, right. Mobile is mobile, it is software specifically written by a cutting edge software house that specializes and or focused on wagering in the sports gaming sector. Mobile is an app. for your smart device which is mobile like your phone. This app. is everything line like your book, it has the lines and games and your bets just like your book but is on your phone. Incredibly fast and easy and clear to use because it is a tru downloadable mobile application that is downloed from the Apple App. store or similar for Blackberry or Droid. So these are great and addictive as hell because it has percentages on the games you got action on and it will change through the course of your game. It is like seeing those % at the poker table when televised, and it (%) changes as cards are dealt and so does the (%) of your action as more points in a game are won or lost and yes it uses red and green usually. Nothing like looking at a screen of green and high percentages. You touch the line and the whole ticket comes up and then you could check the history of each quarter or half or all kinds of added features. Depends on the and the app. service but remember when you got your first cell phone and you were glued to messing with its programs. . If you have never used or tried a true mobile app like JustBet has or 5Dimes then you should. When you do you will never go back and I read an online article that said British punters or sports wagering enthusiats doubled their wagering volume across the board when they used a true mobile smart phone application. Man, double... thats a 100% increase. Bookies are gonna be running to get and offer this to everyone by Oct.2012...

[touchback]

Live casino, live betting, live lines on site without logging in so you can just leave lines up and running on computer without worrying about open account and funds. League schedules page and true mobile appplication (not web browser and cut down light website copy) and fast payouts (regularly same day and mix of 48 to 72 hours, express 5 to 7 days) with one free withdrawal a month that includes p2P for more than $500 bucks instead of tiny free payout cap for like $200 an pay the difference (also some additional $200 bullshit fee), if it is free should also go up to a regular withdrawal amount of high hundreds. Last but not least simple bonus and promotion rules that are attainable without it being a gift from god situation. No ************ (they should not be offered or used, they are a problem) but also no paperwork or ID on cash payouts like all cash deposits, always should be easy and fast cash in cash out. Last but not least , polite and professional staff.. tired of these old school staff attitudes that all customers are gambling, lying scumbags and treat them like crap. Oh well, simple wish... bet someone will offer this by October and whoever does will sign up customers left and right.

[Melissa7]

filipinho, wow I would swear I have seen 60 days there yesterday
it kinda creeps me out, dont know if there was really 60, or I just just blind and didn't see real 90

maybe i just need vacation

90 days are quite good, if you won't get limit 100/bet after first winning bet..

[mentality]

Hi guys.

Today I received this e-mail out of the blue:

Dear xxx:

The management is pleased to inform you that the winnings removed recently due to incomplete bonus wagering will be credited back into your account based on the calculations below:

Total winnings removed previously : EURO 5186.60
Less winnings contributed from the bonus element : Euro: 882.09

Net amount to be credited : Euro 4304.54

Note- The bonus amount of EURO: 225 has been voided.

You may withdraw your winnings immediately after credit as there is no condition attached.

We hope this finds you well.

Please do not hesitate to contact us via email if unclear.

Thank you,
Sincerely,
12BET

First of all I would like to thank SBR and especially Justin7 who handled my case.

I thought these money were gone so getting most of it back is like a Christmas gift.

I imagine it was SBR's pressure (D- rating and youtube video) that led them to this decision.

I will not waste any more of my time to change the minds of those who don't understand how wrong what 12bet did was.

Only the fact that they changed their minds after 1 and a half month and refunded most of my winnings plus they changed those bullshit terms really proves what I've been "shouting" from the begining.

Anyway this doesn't change my mind about this company. Only the fact that I had to go under all this trouble to get my money back proves what kind of scumbags they are. I bet if SBR never rate them as D- they would never pay me back or change their rules. I wonder how many people lost their money there due to those terms and didn't get refunded because they didn't complain enough

Anyway, thanks again SBR, I repeat I haven't changed my mind about this company, I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone who asks me but like I said in my first post, what you do with your money is your own business.

[Justin7]

mentality,

I'm very glad to hear that. I've been in contact with 12bet (who responded only once) and the Isle of Man, where 12bet has their license. I hope they pay all players in this manner.