[teaserpleaser]

I don't think he understands yet he knows its serious but yeah he thinks he still going to get off... He's Fukked

[itchypickle]

He walks pal...you obviously haven't been following this train wreck of a trail for the prosecution have you?

Burden is on the State of Florida to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt....not on Zimmerman to prove the other way

[teaserpleaser]

Watching itchy not all the time I have a life but I'm catching a bit before tiger game.... Itchy even in the south shit like this cant go unpunished...justice will be served in one way or another itchy easy as pie for 1 guy to get couple of years or so vs what we all know will happen if Zimmerman walks. With Sanford's racist past this is damn near a sure thing watch and see. Lets be real if he looked like an actual "George Zimmerman " instead of Jorge de la Zimmerman Latino gent he would have a much better shot of walking....too bad for him he's also lying through his teeth followed the kid blah blah blah...itchy he's Fukked should have stayed put waited for the real police but he tried to be super trooper and made bad decisions....his bad

[teaserpleaser]

Itchy you make me smile with your child like naiviety...don't ever lose that

[itchypickle]

Whether or not he should or shouldn't have gotten out of the car is one thing...the actual fight is another. Hindsight yes if he wouldn't have gotten out this wouldn't have happened but at the same time if he thought he ran and was trying to keep an eye on him for the police so they could apprehend him then that is another.

Everyone has input on all sides but the case itself is about the seconds right before the gunshot...that is all that matters. Zimmerman could have followed him for 5 miles and still done nothing illegal....even if Zimmerman were to have tackled him and hit him a few times before the fight went to the concrete....that legally changes the definitions here. Once someone starts bashing heads into concrete or continually pounding from mounted position its more than a fight unlike a school yard fight. Law is clear...feel threatened with your life or imminent bodily injury its justified. Not murder. Murder would have been Zimmerman chasing him gun drawn and shot on sight.

This was made a racial case by the Martin side...already under testimony that the family attorney's pushed race to get the attention of the media involvement, they were the only ones other than Trayvon who said anything racial so the threat of riots is ridiculous.

[itchypickle]

Itchy you make me smile with your child like naiviety...don't ever lose that

aww shucks...you make me blush too

[muldoon]

Itchy even in the south shit like this cant go unpunished...justice will be served in one way or another itchy easy as pie for 1 guy to get couple of years or so vs what we all know will happen if Zimmerman walks.

There's no "just give him a couple years because he's a dummy" clause. He's charged with 2nd degree murder. There are a lot of things that Zimmerman is guilty of (bad judgement etc) - but 2nd degree murder is pretty specific.

[SamDiamond]

I'm curious, does the jury have a manslaughter charge to consider as well?

I think he'll get the manslaughter charger, but he will walk on Murder 2.

[muldoon]

I'm curious, does the jury have a manslaughter charge to consider as well?

I think he'll get the manslaughter charger, but he will walk on Murder 2.

It's murder 2 or he walks I believe.

Let's not forget, they were unsure if they were even going to initially charge Zimmerman at all. To go for 2nd degree murder, they pretty much have to prove that Zimmerman hunted down Martin (they've been trying - poorly).

[Hustler11]

It's murder 2 or he walks I believe.

Let's not forget, they were unsure if they were even going to initially charge Zimmerman at all. To go for 2nd degree murder, they pretty much have to prove that Zimmerman hunted down Martin (they've been trying - poorly).

Yeah either way the judge will have to sign off on a letting the prosecution charge him with some lesser charge. However I think they would've already had to do that. I don't think you can have a trial and then come back and try to re try him for a lesser charge. Either way he's innocent and trayvon martin was a racist kid.

[KingJD31]

Kid you have no idea, everything is pointing towards self defense

Watching itchy not all the time I have a life but I'm catching a bit before tiger game.... Itchy even in the south shit like this cant go unpunished...justice will be served in one way or another itchy easy as pie for 1 guy to get couple of years or so vs what we all know will happen if Zimmerman walks. With Sanford's racist past this is damn near a sure thing watch and see. Lets be real if he looked like an actual "George Zimmerman " instead of Jorge de la Zimmerman Latino gent he would have a much better shot of walking....too bad for him he's also lying through his teeth followed the kid blah blah blah...itchy he's Fukked should have stayed put waited for the real police but he tried to be super trooper and made bad decisions....his bad

[SamDiamond]

Yeah either way the judge will have to sign off on a letting the prosecution charge him with some lesser charge. However I think they would've already had to do that. I don't think you can have a trial and then come back and try to re try him for a lesser charge. Either way he's innocent and trayvon martin was a racist kid.

I found this guys.

It appears that the jury will have the option of considering manslaughter.

Generally, prosecutors will charge a suspect with the highest charge they believe they can get a conviction with. Lesser offenses in the hierarchy are generally understood to be included automatically by most jurisdictions. Prosecutors can and often will request that lesser included offenses be included in the jury instructions so that jurors have the opportunity to choose a lesser offense should they not be convinced of the top charge. This means that should the jury fail to convict on second-degree murder, they could still convict on a lesser charge such as manslaughter.

[dante1]

Don't know what is going to happen and nobody does, anything can happen. Bottom line is one guy armed followed another guy unarmed and the unarmed guy is shot dead. I don't know much more than that and neither do you. Up to the lawyers and the jury, again any verdict would not surprise me we have seen too many of these play out and play out crazy. I hope that justice is served that is my only agenda with this case, not sure many of you can say the same.

[infamousbacardi]

Prosecution clearly over charged GZ. 1% chance at best he is guilty of 2nd degree murder w/ these facts.

The jury CAN consider lesser charges of voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, which, is what they should have charged him with all along anyway, IF anything at all.

[dante1]

Prosecution clearly over charged GZ. 1% chance at best he is guilty of 2nd degree murder w/ these facts.

The jury CAN consider lesser charges of voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, which, is what they should have charged him with all along anyway, IF anything at all.

maybe that is true don't know if the jury has the option.

Oh, I just read Sam D, that is good to know

[Hustler11]

Don't know what is going to happen and nobody does, anything can happen. Bottom line is one guy armed followed another guy unarmed and the unarmed guy is shot dead. I don't know much more than that and either do you. Up to the lawyers and the jury, again any verdict would not surprise me we have seen too many of these play out and play out crazy. I hope that justice is served that is my only agenda with this case, not sure many of you can say the same.

you can consider your hands deadly weapons. i feel like trayvon incited this violence after he saw george following him (which is legal). THen he was getting the best of george and george pulled his weapon and shot trayvon in the chest then rolled him over off of him to get up. Trayvon was shot in the chest but when police arrived he was face down. That is the only logical way i see this situation unfolding. what i don't like is how all the liberals are calling this a race issue (big surprise) when trayvon is actually the one using racial slurs. I say white folks need to start a riot if he gets found guilty.

[infamousbacardi]

Don't know what is going to happen and nobody does, anything can happen. Bottom line is one guy armed followed another guy unarmed and the unarmed guy is shot dead. I don't know much more than that and either do you. Up to the lawyers and the jury, again any verdict would not surprise me we have seen too many of these play out and play out crazy. I hope that justice is served that is my only agenda with this case, not sure many of you can say the same.

I would encourage you to find the facts again and actually read them.

The 911 calls corroborate the FACT that GZ did follow TM, however, he stopped following him and had returned back toward his vehicle having lost sight of TM. GZ even says in the 911 call he will meet the dispatched officers at the mail boxes of the community AFTER he had already quit chasing TM.

[SamDiamond]

you can consider your hands deadly weapons. i feel like trayvon incited this violence after he saw george following him (which is legal). THen he was getting the best of george and george pulled his weapon and shot trayvon in the chest then rolled him over off of him to get up. Trayvon was shot in the chest but when police arrived he was face down. That is the only logical way i see this situation unfolding. what i don't like is how all the liberals are calling this a race issue (big surprise) when trayvon is actually the one using racial slurs. I say white folks need to start a riot if he gets found guilty.

I have no dog in this fight.

I really don't.

But I think race was involved. I don't think Zimmerman ever meant to kill the kid, but if Martin were a white kid, making that very same walk that night, does Zimmerman follow him? Does Zimmerman call 911 if he sees a white kid?

I don't think there is a 1% chance he would have. Zimmerman was suspicious because Martin is black.

[itchypickle]

I would encourage you to find the facts again and actually read them.

The 911 calls corroborate the FACT that GZ did follow TM, however, he stopped following him and had returned back toward his vehicle having lost sight of TM. GZ even says in the 911 call he will meet the dispatched officers at the mail boxes of the community AFTER he had already quit chasing TM.

That is one thing thats been sort of 'omitted' in the media running up to the trial.

Listening to the testimony and the calls and now the investigator on stand today....Zimmerman got out of the car when Trayvon ran...he then stopped and returned to the car...drove around maybe 100 feet or so according to the map in court today and got out again to get a better address to give to the cops...thats when he said he walked PAST 'The T' as it's being explained everyday....didn't see Martin but on his way back to the car the second time is when Trayvon shows up and the fight was on.

For a year or so it's been portrayed as if Zimmerman gets out...Trayvon runs...911 tells him to not follow but he just keeps running at him yelling "fukking coons" as was attempted to be added...then he saw him and they fought. Now we learn that Zimmerman was in contact with 911 and trying to assist them as well as give them a meeting spot while he waited near the end. He followed the rules boys. Trayvon jumped out of the bushes to attack 'the cracker'.

[infamousbacardi]

I have no dog in this fight.

I really don't.

But I think race was involved. I don't think Zimmerman ever meant to kill the kid, but if Martin were a white kid, making that very same walk that night, does Zimmerman follow him? Does Zimmerman call 911 if he sees a white kid?

I don't think there is a 1% chance he would have. Zimmerman was suspicious because Martin is black.

Even if an unbiased person were to grant everything in your paragraph as truth, how does that make him any more guilty of 2nd degree murder?

It would make him guilty of racial profiling, but last I checked, that's not a crime in the state of Florida. He called the cops, ran after TM, lost Martin and told the 911 operator he'd meet the police at the front of the complex, he's on his way back to his vehicle and TM approaches him to rough him up. At that point, I'm pretty sure it didn't matter what color or where TM was from....someone was on top of GZ "MMA style", as an actual eyewitness reported, raining down blows on GZ, who was yelling help at the time. GZ had a gun and used it.

Didn't matter what color TM was or wasn't, he approached and swung a fist at the wrong man that night. Should he have died for swinging a fist at someone? Probably not, but if he was actually beating GZ's head into the concrete as his head wounds suggest was actually true, AND potentially covering GZ's mouth and nose to stop him from breathing, AND actually did say to him, "you're going to die tonight mother fukker" as he continued to pound him....MAYBE it was actually a perfectly justifiable case of self defense.

[SamDiamond]

Even if an unbiased person were to grant everything in your paragraph as truth, how does that make him any more guilty of 2nd degree murder?

It would make him guilty of racial profiling, but last I checked, that's not a crime in the state of Florida. He called the cops, ran after TM, lost Martin and told the 911 operator he'd meet the police at the front of the complex, he's on his way back to his vehicle and TM approaches him to rough him up. At that point, I'm pretty sure it didn't matter what color or where TM was from....someone was on top of GZ "MMA style", as an actual eyewitness reported, raining down blows on GZ, who was yelling help at the time. GZ had a gun and used it.

Didn't matter what color TM was or wasn't, he approached and swung a fist at the wrong man that night. Should he have died for swinging a fist at someone? Probably not, but if he was actually beating GZ's head into the concrete as his head wounds suggest was actually true, AND potentially covering GZ's mouth and nose to stop him from breathing, AND actually did say to him, "you're going to die tonight mother fukker" as he continued to pound him....MAYBE it was actually a perfectly justifiable case of self defense.

Go back to my post. Where did I say that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. In fact, I say-- "I don't think Zimmerman intended to muder Martin"----and at most, Zimmerman gets a manslaughter conviction.

The range for manslaughter is broad-- and I would be stunned if they didn't make that conviction.

[infamousbacardi]

Go back to my post. Where did I say that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. In fact, I say-- "I don't think Zimmerman intended to muder Martin"----and at most, Zimmerman gets a manslaughter conviction.

The range for manslaughter is broad-- and I would be stunned if they didn't make that conviction.

Fair enough. I just think it's easy to use race as a factor and people often then jump from that conclusion to the fact that he's automatically guilty of "murder" because he was racially profiling someone (if he even was).

[infamousbacardi]

At any rate, it's pretty ironic the OP makes a very uninformed and ignorant post, and asks if GZ is "smart enough" to understand he's screwed....when the OP isn't even "smart enough" to know the facts and understand the law before making a stupid thread.

[Hustler11]

I have no dog in this fight.

I really don't.

But I think race was involved. I don't think Zimmerman ever meant to kill the kid, but if Martin were a white kid, making that very same walk that night, does Zimmerman follow him? Does Zimmerman call 911 if he sees a white kid?

I don't think there is a 1% chance he would have. Zimmerman was suspicious because Martin is black.

But if blacks were the ones breaking into the houses wouldn't it make sense to be suspicious? Especially if you've never seen this kid in the area. Who cares if he went after him because he was black, thats what happen when 65% of your population is in jail for crimes.

[Mikail]

Based on the facts I cannot fathom how a jury could in good conscious convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. Zimmerman theoretically could have been charged with voluntary/involuntary manslaughter and the prosecution would have a larger chance of a conviction. It just seems like the DA took a leap of faith when charging based off media outcry in the beginning.

[dante1]

I would encourage you to find the facts again and actually read them.

The 911 calls corroborate the FACT that GZ did follow TM, however, he stopped following him and had returned back toward his vehicle having lost sight of TM. GZ even says in the 911 call he will meet the dispatched officers at the mail boxes of the community AFTER he had already quit chasing TM.

I am not following this case at all, just what I occasionally read and my hope is justice prevails.

You know guys you need not pick a side and cheer in this case, this isn't the celtics vs the lakers or the dodgers vs the yanks this is a trial and we all should be cheering for justice. When I hear some of the comments it makes me wonder, I lean progressive but that does not mean I am for the black guy that is not the case 100%, I am for the guy that is predominately innocent, I am for justice, I don't know all the facts, YOU DONT EITHER, when you insist that you know what is going on by what you are getting from the media and what you are learning from the first few days of this trial, well I have to scratch my head. Why not wait and see?

[stevenash]

I don't think he understands yet he knows its serious but yeah he thinks he still going to get off... He's Fukked

He's walking dude, almost every news panel TV show is saying pretty much with everybody else is saying, "he is not guilty of second degree murder as it is written......"

Prepare for the race riots is the best advice I can give you.

[infamousbacardi]

I am not following this case at all, just what I occasionally read and my hope is justice prevails.

You know guys you need not pick a side and cheer in this case, this isn't the celtics vs the lakers or the dodgers vs the yanks this is a trial and we all should be cheering for justice. When I hear some of the comments it makes me wonder, I lean progressive but that does not mean I am for the black guy that is not the case 100%, I am for the guy that is predominately innocent, I am for justice, I don't know all the facts, YOU DONT EITHER, when you insist that you know what is going on by what you are getting from the media and what you are learning from the first few days of this trial, well I have to scratch my head. Why not wait and see?

I agree with you almost entirely about the way people should view these trials, w/ one small caveat...

Before he died Senator Moynihan said it best, "everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

The media has taken FACTS from this case, completely ignored them and/or blatantly chosen to report or suggest opinions that just aren't in line w/ the actual facts from this case. It's wrong, it's offensive and they will be the reason when he walks from 2nd degree murder charges the masses will go insane.

[dante1]

He's walking dude, almost every news panel TV show is saying pretty much with everybody else is saying, "he is not guilty of second degree murder as it is written......"

Prepare for the race riots is the best advice I can give you.

I hear you but remember OJ, just the opposite and look what happened, maybe even the same with the girl who probably killed her daughter, can't remember her name now.

[stevenash]

^
Casey Anthony

[infamousbacardi]

I hear you but remember OJ, just the opposite and look what happened, maybe even the same with the girl who probably killed her daughter, can't remember her name now.

OJ was different because too many witnesses and too much evidence was ruled inadmissible because key witnesses had sold their stories to the tabloids before the trial started. That would have been a slam dunk conviction if all the evidence would have been admissible.

Casey Anthony also very different. As convoluted as the facts may seem to some in the George Zimmerman case, Casey Anthony's facts were way more convoluted. Not to mention, her own mother blatantly lying on the witness stand on numerous occasions.

In this case, easily the best piece of evidence would have been "Witness #8", the alleged girlfriend of Martin who was on the phone while Martin right before he died....and she came off the stand with less credibility than the ex-CEO of Enron, Jeffrey Skilling.

[dante1]

OJ was different because too many witnesses and too much evidence was ruled inadmissible because key witnesses had sold their stories to the tabloids before the trial started. That would have been a slam dunk conviction if all the evidence would have been admissible.

Casey Anthony also very different. As convoluted as the facts may seem to some in the George Zimmerman case, Casey Anthony's facts were way more convoluted. Not to mention, her own mother blatantly lying on the witness stand on numerous occasions.

In this case, easily the best piece of evidence would have been "Witness #8", the alleged girlfriend of Martin who was on the phone while Martin right before he died....and she came off the stand with less credibility than the ex-CEO of Enron, Jeffrey Skilling.

Like I said I have not watched one second of this but I know juries do crazy things, well at lest they seem crazy to people judging from everywhere but the juror seats. We will see and who knows maybe many of us well say WTF. You just never know.

[dante1]

Right now, right this minute I hear some people say he is guilty as sin, I hear other people just as vehemently scream he is completely innocent so it is obvious some of us are going to be saying WTF.

[infamousbacardi]

Like I said I have not watched one second of this but I know juries do crazy things, well at lest they seem crazy to people judging from everywhere but the juror seats. We will see and who knows maybe many of us well say WTF. You just never know.

Now that I will grant you.

I was in a courtroom for every second of a small civil case and the facts seemed probably 80% pretty clear in favor of the plaintiff. I was sitting w/ the lead defense attorney after the trial was over and jury found for the defendant. One of the jurors decided to speak to him afterward and said one of the main reasons she found for the defense was because she liked his tie and his appearance. "It made him seem more credible", she said.

So yes, I will certainly give you that.

[infamousbacardi]

Right now, right this minute I hear some people say he is guilty as sin, I hear other people just as vehemently scream he is completely innocent so it is obvious some of us are going to be saying WTF.

Yes but the people saying WTF will be the people who haven't actually analyzed the facts from a legal perspective.