[Siddhartha Arya]

It is very sad that christian church of USA is still funding institutions like Discovery Institute which are involved in promotion of iintelligent design hypotheses. Evolution has got enormous amount of proofs from fossil record, genetic analysis and sequencing of genomes but intelligent design fellas are interested only in finding limitations of evolution. They fail to even find any sensible flaw but still manage to catch public attention on 'work-in-progress'. For example, simpler forms of blood clotting mechanism are still not known and ID fellas consider it some kinda divine intervention. Their actual motive is to misguide as many people as they can and shamefully introduce divine intervention in science textbooks.

[bozeman]

for starters, you believe a book written by propagandists in ancient times has any truth or prevalence to today's society. and you think a spirit named god made animals and there was a cool forbidden apple and talking snakes and people walked on water.

you know, it's all logical what you wrote, and I would have agreed with you, if I hadn't known that the guy building a church in my town had fallen from the roof (3-4th floor roughly )and didn't break anything at all, and our friend who is by the way - a "technical" Christian - has a baby who ate a peach when she was young, the baby couldn't digest that peach and started dying and they couldn't deliver the baby to the hospital on time, and our friend just cried and prayed - cause the ambulance doctor said she had only few hours to live- the baby started to change in color even. And when they delivered the baby to the hospital - they have done the x-ray or smth before the surgery and found out it was unnecessary - cause everything had been gone.
so i do believe in all that cause wonders DO happen, and that prooves there is God, and the Bible hasn't been made up, in fact you are right those guys were propagandists - and they didn't deliver CRAP to people, unlike our modern media

[chilidog]

you know, it's all logical what you wrote, and I would have agreed with you, if I hadn't known that the guy building a church in my town had fallen from the roof (3-4th floor roughly )and didn't break anything at all, and our friend who is by the way - a "technical" Christian - has a baby who ate a peach when she was young, the baby couldn't digest that peach and started dying and they couldn't deliver the baby to the hospital on time, and our friend just cried and prayed - cause the ambulance doctor said she had only few hours to live- the baby started to change in color even. And when they delivered the baby to the hospital - they have done the x-ray or smth before the surgery and found out it was unnecessary - cause everything had been gone.
so i do believe in all that cause wonders DO happen, and that prooves there is God, and the Bible hasn't been made up, in fact you are right those guys were propagandists - and they didn't deliver CRAP to people, unlike our modern media

So if there is a God, why does he ignore little children praying for his help when they're starving to death, or being physically abused? I mean after all, he holds children in such high regard, since in his eyes, they can do no wrong, and are guaranteed a spot in heaven.

Good thing he saved your friend from breaking a bone, though. To hell with those kids who just took their last breath because they haven't eaten anything. Who cares about those kids hiding under their beds from their drunk father who's about to beat them or rape them. They don't matter. Thank God he saved your friend from some broken bones, though.

Let me guess - it's his will.

[bozeman]

do many kids pray in those cases? I don't think I have prayed when I was a kid often. and do you know for a fact that those who pray in those situations aren't ending in better conditions compared to those who don't?
And christian organizations help kids in Africa, don't they?

[chilidog]

do many kids pray in those cases? I don't think I have prayed when I was a kid often. and do you know for a fact that those who pray in those situations aren't ending in better conditions compared to those who don't?
And christian organizations help kids in Africa, don't they?

Well you see, God didn't say in his 'book' that children had to believe in him, nor pray to him. He simply said that all go to heaven, because they are innocent; they can do no wrong. That statement in of itself implies that God places children on a higher pedestal than adults, since adults are not guaranteed a spot alongside him.

So, it doesn't matter if a child prays for God's help or not. God is omnipresent; he knows that the act is about to happen. Why would he allow such a thing? It must be that free will thing that I keep hearing Christians talk about.

[Snowball]

There are more than enough facts to know that evolution is a sensible concept. Carbon dating method and countless fossils show that there were simpler forms of most of the species of present day. Genetics has further shown that how genes of different species are common up to an extent. Sequencing of genomes is giving further support to claims of biologists. Kindly come up with some facts before making tall claims. If anything is dated and totally discarded then that is creationism.

1. Carbon dating is controversial itself. It is unreliable and often contaminated.
2. There are genetic, biological, and historical arguments by scientists against the likelihood of evolution.
3. Creationism can never be disproven, but evolution can be disproven.

You're the one making "tall claims", presuming to know that there was/is no
creative force in the universe. If that's not a tall claim, I don't know what is.
Something cannot come from nothing. A prime mover is required.

I do believe species can genetically adapt, however. (microevolution)
That is different than macroevolution.

[TR88]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/env...volution11.htm

[chilidog]

Something cannot come from nothing.

Ahh, but it can, and it happens all the time. Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles. Here's a quick copy/paste excerpt:

There is also a notable phenomenon observed in quantum mechanics. Particles composed of quarks such as protons, neutrons, positrons, etc have been observed popping into existence from nowhere and leaving again just as fast. Such particles “appear” in a vacuum where no other matter or energy exists. At the quantum level, even empty space is not truly empty but is seething with activity; particles are constantly popping in and out of existence everywhere. In pair creation, a particle and its antimatter partner seem to “appear”

[Snowball]

Ahh, but it can, and it happens all the time. Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles. Here's a quick copy/paste excerpt:

There is also a notable phenomenon observed in quantum mechanics. Particles composed of quarks such as protons, neutrons, positrons, etc have been observed popping into existence from nowhere and leaving again just as fast. Such particles “appear” in a vacuum where no other matter or energy exists. At the quantum level, even empty space is not truly empty but is seething with activity; particles are constantly popping in and out of existence everywhere. In pair creation, a particle and its antimatter partner seem to “appear”

that vacuum state in which they were observed to appear is not "nothing", because they appeared within the conditions of an already extant universe.

[FourLengthsClear]

1. Carbon dating is controversial itself. It is unreliable and often contaminated.
2. There are genetic, biological, and historical arguments by scientists against the likelihood of evolution.
3. Creationism can never be disproven, but evolution can be disproven.

You're the one making "tall claims", presuming to know that there was/is no
creative force in the universe. If that's not a tall claim, I don't know what is.
Something cannot come from nothing. A prime mover is required.

I do believe species can genetically adapt, however. (microevolution)
That is different than macroevolution.

How would someone who does not believe in macroevolution begin explain the unique ecology in say, Australia? There are literally thousands of animal species that only exist there despite Australia having been part of a greater land mass as little as 200 million years ago.

It is not the case that Creationism can never be disproven but even if one were to suppose that it was, that is not a positive argument. There are many theories with little or no credence that are very difficult to conclusively disprove.

"Something cannot come from nothing". Can you prove that? What is nothing?

[bozeman]

Ahh, but it can, and it happens all the time. Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles. Here's a quick copy/paste excerpt:

There is also a notable phenomenon observed in quantum mechanics. Particles composed of quarks such as protons, neutrons, positrons, etc have been observed popping into existence from nowhere and leaving again just as fast. Such particles “appear” in a vacuum where no other matter or energy exists. At the quantum level, even empty space is not truly empty but is seething with activity; particles are constantly popping in and out of existence everywhere. In pair creation, a particle and its antimatter partner seem to “appear”

dude, it is still a mystery, sort of an unknown subject to scientists, if I am not mistaken, and the fact that stuff just pops out of nowhere is that they just don't know where it comes from - they can't measure it. if a baby doesn't know where kids come from, it doesn't mean they come from nowhere

[joeybagadonuts]

you know, it's all logical what you wrote, and I would have agreed with you, if I hadn't known that the guy building a church in my town had fallen from the roof (3-4th floor roughly )and didn't break anything at all, and our friend who is by the way - a "technical" Christian - has a baby who ate a peach when she was young, the baby couldn't digest that peach and started dying and they couldn't deliver the baby to the hospital on time, and our friend just cried and prayed - cause the ambulance doctor said she had only few hours to live- the baby started to change in color even. And when they delivered the baby to the hospital - they have done the x-ray or smth before the surgery and found out it was unnecessary - cause everything had been gone.
so i do believe in all that cause wonders DO happen, and that prooves there is God, and the Bible hasn't been made up, in fact you are right those guys were propagandists - and they didn't deliver CRAP to people, unlike our modern media

Funniest post I've read in a long time.

(this is suppose to be funny, right? there is no way anyone is this dumb)

[bozeman]

Well you see, God didn't say in his 'book' that children had to believe in him, nor pray to him. He simply said that all go to heaven, because they are innocent; they can do no wrong. That statement in of itself implies that God places children on a higher pedestal than adults, since adults are not guaranteed a spot alongside him.

So, it doesn't matter if a child prays for God's help or not. God is omnipresent; he knows that the act is about to happen. Why would he allow such a thing? It must be that free will thing that I keep hearing Christians talk about.

Free will - yes, we have it, you can't confuse going to paradise with comfortable life on earth. Cause it's you making a statement that if kids go to paradise - they will live like kings on earth.
About life on earth there is a promise that if you ask God of something in the name of Jesus Christ God will give it to you, and the other verse says that we will only receive something that is good. So if you ask for something sinful - only then you won't get it.

[chilidog]

Free will - yes, we have it, you can't confuse going to paradise with comfortable life on earth. Cause it's you making a statement that if kids go to paradise - they will live like kings on earth.
About life on earth there is a promise that if you ask God of something in the name of Jesus Christ God will give it to you, and the other verse says that we will only receive something that is good. So if you ask for something sinful - only then you won't get it.

You didn't address my question at all.

[bettilimbroke999]

Okay so all the factual scientific evidence that is 100% to the contrary of these joke religious beliefs is wrong including all the things said in the Bible that are just a joke when compared to the current body of scientific knowledge (for some reason God thinks the sun revolves around the earth EVEN THOUGH HE CREATED IT ), however if a guy falls from his roof and doesnt break a bone then his religious beliefs have been proven

That's Christian logic for ya

Oh by the way, dont forget to leave 10-20% in the offering plate, God noticed some of you were a little light last Sunday and is going to quit watching over you as a result....oh dont worry Im just kidding hahaha (church erupts with laughter)....but he DID say if you dont pay him this week and last weeks debt + the 10% vig that's been runnin since he found out you stiffed him you're going to hell for all eternity (dead silence). Oh but just give what you can Jesus understands times are tough, you can pay 10% of the debt + the vig each week + your normal "donation" and stay out of hell by paying off your debt to your merciful lord and savior. Now dont worry Jesus loves you and really wants to work with you to get this debt paid off but you're going to have to get on a payment plan to prove your love for him and stay out of hell.

[Siddhartha Arya]

1. Carbon dating is controversial itself. It is unreliable and often contaminated.
2. There are genetic, biological, and historical arguments by scientists against the likelihood of evolution.
3. Creationism can never be disproven, but evolution can be disproven.

You're the one making "tall claims", presuming to know that there was/is no
creative force in the universe. If that's not a tall claim, I don't know what is.
Something cannot come from nothing. A prime mover is required.

I do believe species can genetically adapt, however. (microevolution)
That is different than macroevolution.

I can't help laughing on this post. Radiocarbon dating is a standard method to estimate the age of carbon-bearing materials around 60,000 years. There are a lot of fossils in the record which are more than 6,000 years old. Nothing becomes controversial by your words. Give some proof in your support. Otherwise, you are making a mockery of your words.

No such genetic or biological argument exist. If there is a single such valid argument than mention it and don't forget to mention the name of that scientist. I know lot about Michael Behe, Willem Dembski, Jonathan Sarfati, Philip Johnson, Michael Denton and other misguided guys who have written a lot of flawed books on intelligent design. All of such books and arguments are rejected by National Academy of Sciences of USA itself.

Creationism hides under the argument that creation is a phenomenon that can't be observed so it can't either be proved or disproved. Nice joke. The entire book of genesis is already proven false and church itself has accepted their fault.

[Siddhartha Arya]

You're the one making "tall claims", presuming to know that there was/is no
creative force in the universe. If that's not a tall claim, I don't know what is.
Something cannot come from nothing. A prime mover is required.

I do believe species can genetically adapt, however. (microevolution)
That is different than macroevolution.

That supposed prime mover itself is something. So it can't also come from nothing. If a prime mover can come from nothing then universe can also come from nothing. The criticism of first cause argument explained in opening chapter of 'Why I Am Not a Christian' written by Bertrand Russell is enough to refute possibility of any creator.