[BAUS]

Putting offers early at matchy is a lose lose situation 95% of the time..

This is absolutely the truth.

BAUS

[BAUS]

Parlayin, liquidity on MB is flat out terrible for CBB. I don't see anyone denying that. If you wanted to get down bets at Pinny lines (for example, Pinny has -105 so you request -105 on MB) you might be able to get down more than half of your bets. That is terrible for an exchange.

Huh ?

No, I doubt you'll get half your bets taken. I'll make that play at Pinnacle every time and not pay the commission at Matchbook.

BAUS

[Hareeba!]

Huh ?

No, I doubt you'll get half your bets taken. I'll make that play at Pinnacle every time and not pay the commission at Matchbook.

BAUS

If you request a bet at MB (as opposed to accepting an offer) you don't pay any commission.

(in fact they PAY YOU a little commission)

[BAUS]

If you request a bet at MB (as opposed to accepting an offer) you don't pay any commission. (in fact they PAY YOU a little commission)

Yes, I am aware of this. I am glued to Matchbook 13 hours per day sir...

To be clear: No bettor that has access to Pinnacle will accept an offer at a price of -110 at Matchbook when Pinnacle is also -110.

KGambler is wrong to suggest that if a person makes offers at MB that are EQUAL to the Pinnacle line they will get taken half the time.

BAUS

[LVHerbie]

Making offers requires you to monitor the market unless you want to get burnt on line moves which most rec bettors are unable / unwilling to do...

[bookie]

I apologize if the tone of my last post was out of line but I don't want this thread to get sidetracked and turn into a pissing match....My point is just that the notion that MB is the future of betting because why lay -110 when you can always get better than WA lines doesn't seem to be the case for even CBB tv games.

I appreciate that you're conscious of your tone, and are trying to keep the conversation civil. There's plenty of room to disagree about MB.

It's only people who are marketing MB, for whatever reason, who make those strong claims about it being "the future of betting" and "why pay -110" as if anything you could could get at a clearing house book you could get at MB. That's baloney, so I can see how you would get frustrated with those claims because clearly the MB markets are spotty.

What frustrates me is the people who say that it's stupid to make offers because they'll only get accepted if the line moves against them.

Like a lot of people I get offers accepted every single day that allow me to beat the Pinnacle line. Yes I have to watch them...one browser window has Pinnacle's dynamic lines in it, and the other my MB offer. If the line moves a couple of pennies against me, I take it down and put up another. I have put up hundreds of offers in the past year, and i can count on one hand the number of times one got "picked off" and I got a (slightly) worse price than Pinnacle, compared to the hundreds of times that Pinnacle had -105 and I got +100 at MB.

It's also happened that offers didn't get accepted, and I have to make the bet elsewhere. Yes, of course that happens. But by only spending a couple of half hour sessions a day making and monitoring offers I get to put in more than half my volume at an average price three cents better than the Pinnacle line on NBA and CFB and quite often (though I'd say less than fifty percent of the time) with CBB. I'm not offering $2000 like the OP, but am in the $800-$1000 range, so I'm obviously saving a bundle.

This is such a good deal that it's frustrating to read posts from people who never make reasonable two-sided offers (I make sure my counter-parties beat the Pinnacle line too including commission) and keep an eye on them to get them reasonably matched. Or maybe they've done it a couple of times, and it didn't work, so now they know and think it's time to shout "MB sucks" from the rooftops. Sure sometimes you have to go to Plan B, but...well...I'm ranting.

[Nicky Santoro]

I appreciate that you're conscious of your tone, and are trying to keep the conversation civil. There's plenty of room to disagree about MB.

It's only people who are marketing MB, for whatever reason, who make those strong claims about it being "the future of betting" and "why pay -110" as if anything you could could get at a clearing house book you could get at MB. That's baloney, so I can see how you would get frustrated with those claims because clearly the MB markets are spotty.

What frustrates me is the people who say that it's stupid to make offers because they'll only get accepted if the line moves against them.

Like a lot of people I get offers accepted every single day that allow me to beat the Pinnacle line. Yes I have to watch them...one browser window has Pinnacle's dynamic lines in it, and the other my MB offer. If the line moves a couple of pennies against me, I take it down and put up another. I have put up hundreds of offers in the past year, and i can count on one hand the number of times one got "picked off" and I got a (slightly) worse price than Pinnacle, compared to the hundreds of times that Pinnacle had -105 and I got +100 at MB.

It's also happened that offers didn't get accepted, and I have to make the bet elsewhere. Yes, of course that happens. But by only spending a couple of half hour sessions a day making and monitoring offers I get to put in more than half my volume at an average price three cents better than the Pinnacle line on NBA and CFB and quite often (though I'd say less than fifty percent of the time) with CBB. I'm not offering $2000 like the OP, but am in the $800-$1000 range, so I'm obviously saving a bundle.

This is such a good deal that it's frustrating to read posts from people who never make reasonable two-sided offers (I make sure my counter-parties beat the Pinnacle line too including commission) and keep an eye on them to get them reasonably matched. Or maybe they've done it a couple of times, and it didn't work, so now they know and think it's time to shout "MB sucks" from the rooftops. Sure sometimes you have to go to Plan B, but...well...I'm ranting.

and what do you do like today when you see bulls -7.5 +111 at matchy and -7.5 -103 at pinny all night.. do you pound the -7.5 +111 at matchy, only to see it close at -7.5 +112 at pinny. i'm sure 98% of the posters here would take the matchy line right away thinking they got a great deal.

also, how many times i have seen in the last 5 yrs at matchy where you'd put up a great offer on NYY -178... it don't get touched until Arod and Cano are late scratches and then it gets matched and now your great -178 is now -141.. and there was nothing you can do because matchy was way ahead of pinny, which they are 99% of the time.

sorry, but there is nothing you can do when you leave an offer up there at matchy..

[Hareeba!]

and what do you do like today when you see bulls -7.5 +111 at matchy and -7.5 -103 at pinny all night.. do you pound the -7.5 +111 at matchy, only to see it close at -7.5 +112 at pinny. i'm sure 98% of the posters here would take the matchy line right away thinking they got a great deal.
.

if plenty of time to go, I'd probably put in an offer for +115 and monitor the action

[parlayin]

Parlayin, liquidity on MB is flat out terrible for CBB. I don't see anyone denying that. You will have to look elsewhere to bet on CBB. If you can get a Pinny account, that is the way to go. You can also get a 5Dimes account and bet on their reduced juice lines ($500 max bet though).

Since my original post, I've been talking about MB liquidity on CBB and you seem to agree. In a later post, I said that ultimately, if you're playing over a nickel a CBB game as a U.S. customer, you're pretty much stuck with laying -110 as the days of reduced juice are gone. Are there any other options?

[KGambler]

Yes, I am aware of this. I am glued to Matchbook 13 hours per day sir...

To be clear: No bettor that has access to Pinnacle will accept an offer at a price of -110 at Matchbook when Pinnacle is also -110.

KGambler is wrong to suggest that if a person makes offers at MB that are EQUAL to the Pinnacle line they will get taken half the time.

BAUS

You didn't understand what I was saying. And then you didn't listen to what Hareeba was saying.

What I said is this... Let's say the Yankees are playing the Red Sox... I want the Yankees. The Yankees are -110 on Pinnacle. I request Yankees -110, meaning I am OFFERING Red Sox +110. You see the plus sign? Pay attention.

I was saying that for CBB, if you do this, you might get down on half of your bets (the guy bets about $2K a game). And I am saying that that is terrible for an exchange. I am saying the liquidity for CBB is horrible, but liquidity is good for other sports.

I hope you understand now.

[KGambler]

Since my original post, I've been talking about MB liquidity on CBB and you seem to agree. In a later post, I said that ultimately, if you're playing over a nickel a CBB game as a U.S. customer, you're pretty much stuck with laying -110 as the days of reduced juice are gone. Are there any other options?

The other option is to have many outs and shop for good lines. Using the SBRodds page really helps. Many times you will find -110 lines which are equivalent or better than the available Pinny line because the spread is off by 0.5 or 1 point. If you combine doing this with 5Dimes and Matchbook, it should not be a problem to avoid paying -110 on CBB.

The other things is, don't give up on Matchbook with regards to CBB. I wanted to be conservative in my claims, but you can get matched there a decent percentage of the time (the other times you will have to go elsewhere). During the NCAA tournament, I expect you will get down for $2K with ease. A day like yesterday is another time when liquidity is better. There were not many gambling options last night, so the limited slate of CBB games had better liquidity than normal.

[KGambler]

Where is Fishhead?

I hope he is safe. Someone should start checking hospitals, jails, etc.

[bookie]

and what do you do like today when you see bulls -7.5 +111 at matchy and -7.5 -103 at pinny all night..

It sounds like you're arguing that there's some kind of Matchbook Lean that we should all pay attention to. I haven't found that to be the case, but if you've figured out how the MB line leads the market then congratulations.

To answer your question, if I liked the Bulls and the MB line was eight cents better than the Pinnacle line I'd probably figure there wasn't room for a better offer and just take it. I'm handicapper who shops, not a market maker. So if I can beat the Pinnacle line by a nickel I'm happy.

[Nicky Santoro]

It sounds like you're arguing that there's some kind of Matchbook Lean that we should all pay attention to. I haven't found that to be the case, but if you've figured out how the MB line leads the market then congratulations.

To answer your question, if I liked the Bulls and the MB line was eight cents better than the Pinnacle line I'd probably figure there wasn't room for a better offer and just take it. I'm handicapper who shops, not a market maker. So if I can beat the Pinnacle line by a nickel I'm happy.

my friend, i have indeed figured out a trend at matchy. it comes from being on that site from day 1 of operations till today for 12 hrs a day.. and if you say that you'd grab that great # at matchy if it was way better than pinny, then you must have your heart broken a lot there.. tonight was a perfect example. bulls -7.5 +109 at matchy and at same time, pinny was -7.5 -103.. so you'd take -7.5 +109 thinking it was great. ... and 25 min later, pinny moved to -7.5 +109, thus creating a major -ev bet.

this happens everyday at matchy..

[BAUS]

You didn't understand what I was saying. And then you didn't listen to what Hareeba was saying. What I said is this... Let's say the Yankees are playing the Red Sox... I want the Yankees. The Yankees are -110 on Pinnacle. I request Yankees -110, meaning I am OFFERING Red Sox +110. You see the plus sign? Pay attention. I was saying that for CBB, if you do this, you might get down on half of your bets (the guy bets about $2K a game). And I am saying that that is terrible for an exchange. I am saying the liquidity for CBB is horrible, but liquidity is good for other sports. I hope you understand now.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but you must not be understanding what I am saying.

In your example above with the Red Sox vs Yankees, why would anyone (who has access to Pinnacle) accept your offer and pay a commission to MB when they could get the exact same price at Pinnacle??

BAUS

[KGambler]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but you must not be understanding what I am saying.

In your example above with the Red Sox vs Yankees, why would anyone (who has access to Pinnacle) accept your offer and pay a commission to MB when they could get the exact same price at Pinnacle??

BAUS

Because they can not get the same price at Pinnacle.

Here's another example:

Penn State -105
Oh St -105

I want Penn State. I do not have a Pinny account. I am fine with getting Penn State at -105. I make an offer on Matchbook. People on Matchbook will have the option of accepting Oh St +105

If they take Ohio State, they get them at PLUS 105.

[Igetp2s]

It's pretty simple. You need to have a Matchbook account, and other accounts as well. There's no reason not to have multiple accounts, which should be able to fill all your needs.

[BAUS]

Because they can not get the same price at Pinnacle. Here's another example: Penn State -105 Oh St -105 I want Penn State. I do not have a Pinny account. I am fine with getting Penn State at -105. I make an offer on Matchbook. People on Matchbook will have the option of accepting Oh St +105 If they take Ohio State, they get them at PLUS 105.

Oh ok, my bad. Matchbook can be complex and sometimes I don't know if I am doing this properly or not.

BAUS

[ZetaPsi808]

matchbook takes some practice to get good at it. but i beat pinny's numbers 90% of the time by posting offers

[austintx05]

guys, if you don't have a Pinnacle account, what is the best reduced juice shop out there aside from MB? Are we stuck with 5dimes as our only option?

[maxvalue1]

betphoenix?

[jjgold]

If your a $500 a game plus type bettor matchbook will not suit your needs in most sport as they lack the volume

A place like Betfair where the players no shit about nba basketball took more volume last night on nba than matchbook does in 2 weeks

If you want to bang low juice lines with basically no limits you play at pinnacle and not worry about price fills

[hhsilver]

matchbook takes some practice to get good at it. but i beat pinny's numbers 90% of the time by posting offers

do you play ncaab?
this year has been terrible so far for getting reasonable offers accepted or for finding reasonable ones to accept. It changed drastically when they changed to commission method and it seems to be worse this year than the first year after that change.

sometimes for just about all the games it seems like the only ones looking at cbb are me and the one and only market maker with offers worse than -110 -110 ( and accepting -110 means you are playing at about -112)

( this post is only about ncaab, which is what the OP started this thread about )

[whatsgood5]

Been real, real bad lately...

[coldhardfacts]

This cbb season is the first time ever I'm putting in more action at other places than at Matchy, so indeed the liquidity isn't what it could be if they ever get their deposit issues fixed.

Still, it is a MUST out for pros and serious bettors. The problem with most of you folks is that you all think you can always time the market and get the best line ever available on any game. You can't. Pros can't. No one can. It's like the stock market or the housing market. You make what you think is a +EV investment, and, if you are sharp, you make money.

And those of you who don't think Matchbook is a valuable tool in getting the best value available are missing out big time.

[Fishhead]

Go look at the Superbowl odds at Matchbook right now......one would have to be absolute clueless if they indeed do play offshore and do not have a Matchbook account.

This is one of THOUSANDS of examples during the course of a year.

Biggest N0-BRAINER in the history of offshore gaming is to have an account with MATCHBOOK.


DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT allow the owners, mods, employees of many gaming froums,as well as a slew of negative posting ghost posters and the like attempt to steer you away from Matchbook......THAT IS THEIR INTENTION, as MATCHBOOK does not advertise on the vast, vast majority of gaming forums.

[jjgold]

majority of users at matchbook are only scalpers that is why they book will never be any good and never have any serious volume

When a book does not grown in 5 years something is very wrong

[jonny]

my friend, i have indeed figured out a trend at matchy. it comes from being on that site from day 1 of operations till today for 12 hrs a day.. and if you say that you'd grab that great # at matchy if it was way better than pinny, then you must have your heart broken a lot there.. tonight was a perfect example. bulls -7.5 +109 at matchy and at same time, pinny was -7.5 -103.. so you'd take -7.5 +109 thinking it was great. ... and 25 min later, pinny moved to -7.5 +109, thus creating a major -ev bet.

this happens everyday at matchy..

lol. If the guy(s) offering -7.5 -109(-108 after commission?) is so smart and knows where the market is moving, he'd be smart and big enough to bet the -103 available at pinny and just move it himself. Seems like something you made up in your head.

[hhsilver]

with respect, fishhead, the focus of this thread (see original post) is supposed to be ncaab.


everyone agrees with what you say here bout super bowl and other busy markets- no need for the bold font

[Doug]

guys, if you don't have a Pinnacle account, what is the best reduced juice shop out there aside from MB? Are we stuck with 5dimes as our only option?

I'd say you are stuck with 5Dimes for reduced college, you can get reduced NBA at phoenix but they take weeks to pay and don't transfer with anybody decent. Not much else out there.

[Odessa]

I'd say you are stuck with 5Dimes for reduced college, you can get reduced NBA at phoenix but they take weeks to pay and don't transfer with anybody decent. Not much else out there.

First of all, 5Dimes transfer with Matchbook.

Second, NBA volume has been good this year even such mundane games as Raptors vs. Wolves last night and therefore no need to bet at phoenix.

Yes, there's definitely problem with NCAA BB @ Matchbook this year. But wait until mid-March and everything will be resolved.

[Hareeba!]

majority of users at matchbook are only scalpers that is why they book will never be any good and never have any serious volume

When a book does not grown in 5 years something is very wrong

yes .. and that something is the US GOVERMENT

[Hareeba!]

lol. If the guy(s) offering -7.5 -109(-108 after commission?) is so smart and knows where the market is moving, he'd be smart and big enough to bet the -103 available at pinny and just move it himself. Seems like something you made up in your head.

I suggest you re-read those number Jonny.
big difference between +109 and -109

[Chuck Sims]

"What frustrates me is the people who say that it's stupid to make offers because they'll only get accepted if the line moves against them."

All I can say to these squares that are getting the worse of it 95% of the time. Stop gambling.

I get the best line well over 50% of the time on my offers.

[bubba]

I suggest you re-read those number Jonny.
big difference between +109 and -109

if +109 is available, that means offer for himself is -109. his post made sense to me.