[Chi_archie]

Dude, Beltre literally has 1000 more total bases than Schmidt, AND more extra base hits AND has 400+ fewer KOs despite more plate appearances.

HR per PA is similar, per AB Schmidt wins (he drew way more walks). But Mike Schmidt was striking out 150x's per year in the 80s man.... guy was simply an all or nothing player, Beltre much more rounded and more of a threat at the plate.

HR per PA is not at all similar

Schmidt had WAY more power, and that doesn't even take into account that he played in a dead ball era

a better way to view it

Schmidt averaged 37 Hr's per 162 games and Beltre 26

Schmidt led the league 8 times. Beltre once

[Chi_archie]

Plate appearance is a shitty way of doing it compared to AB's because Schmidt was better at getting on base and had 1507 walks vs Beltre's 848 in MORE ab's

Beltre just makes an out at a higher percentage of time

but even doing it be PA,

Beltre a HR every 25.42 PA's
Schimdt a HR every 18.26 PAs

if you normalize those numbers for 10,000 PA's each

you get

Beltre - 393 HRs
Schmidt 544 HRs

Schmidt way better power hitter in a deadball era

[CMNoney]

But there is no doubt the Steroids(cheating) greatly enhanced Bond's performance. He was a HOFer before Steroids, and Babe Ruth after starting them. There's no evidence that Altuve benefited from it, quite the opposite.

But Bonds was so far and above everyone else that was also using roids. Bonds should be the exception. He is basically getting punished because he was that great.

[MinnesotaFats]

Plate appearance is a shitty way of doing it compared to AB's because Schmidt was better at getting on base and had 1507 walks vs Beltre's 848 in MORE ab's

Beltre just makes an out at a higher percentage of time

but even doing it be PA,

Beltre a HR every 25.42 PA's
Schimdt a HR every 18.26 PAs

if you normalize those numbers for 10,000 PA's each

you get

Beltre - 393 HRs
Schmidt 544 HRs

Schmidt way better power hitter in a deadball era

Deadball? Not buying that.

Great discussion on it here

https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...-dead-ball-era

The 70s and 80s (sans 81 strike) get a bad rap, but HR production and runs per game in line w rest of decades except the widely accepted 1963-1968 period when there was a heightened mound

There were 4 less 40 hr seasons in the 80s than the 70s, again we lose 1981, but that doesn't mean it was a dead era as batting averaged a few points higher (stats in forum dialog)

Schmidt was a bigger 'threat' to go deep with his AB yes, also more teams pitched around him, and as such he walked more...it ties to the structure of speed based teams then versus Beltre batting between a bunch of 30 hr dudes.

Both great players, I'm taking the guy w the .300 average, and the XBHs.

[Chi_archie]

I'll move this discussion back to the 3b thread, since this is really about Altuve


https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...l-time-p4.html

[pologq]

But there is no doubt the Steroids(cheating) greatly enhanced Bond's performance. He was a HOFer before Steroids, and Babe Ruth after starting them. There's no evidence that Altuve benefited from it, quite the opposite.

i disagree there is no evidence. this will taint him rather justly or not. if he did not use the trash can or buzzer, he should have said that from the beginning. it should not have been up to correa to say that for altuve.

[pologq]

But Bonds was so far and above everyone else that was also using roids. Bonds should be the exception. He is basically getting punished because he was that great.

bonds was a freak and had the numbers before the roids. to me, he is slightly different than someone like McGwire or Sosa cause they needed the roids to reach their level of notoriety.

i liken altuve now to manny ramirez. manny was awesome but not a HOF yet and then the steroids scandal came. manny will not make the HOF.

if Altuve has an awesome 10 years now after the scandal, then maybe, but I don't see it happening as he gets older.

[GWags]

The road to the HOF for cheaters is exponentially more difficult, as it should be.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

HR per PA is not at all similar

Schmidt had WAY more power, and that doesn't even take into account that he played in a dead ball era

a better way to view it

Schmidt averaged 37 Hr's per 162 games and Beltre 26

Schmidt led the league 8 times. Beltre once

More Minn Fatty logic lol

This guy is so off base on damn near every one of his takes

laughable

[MinnesotaFats]

More Minn Fatty logic lol

This guy is so off base on damn near every one of his takes

laughable

What's laughable?

My take that Beltre is a great 3rd baseman?

That he was the best of the 00's?

That I prefer his play, stats and performance to Schmidt?

There's nothing illegitimate in there...

[JAKEPEAVY21]

What's laughable?

My take that Beltre is a great 3rd baseman?

That he was the best of the 00's?

That I prefer his play, stats and performance to Schmidt?

There's nothing illegitimate in there...

Beltre was a great 3rd baseman, yes. I don't disagree on the other comments in post #45 but earlier you were arguing he was a better power hitter than Schmidt. Chi archie summed it up nicely.

[Chi_archie]

Both great players, I'm taking the guy w the .300 average, and the XBHs.

I'm not sure where you get more Xbh's, you harp on doubles for some reason, but for season averages you get 8 more doubles from Beltre but ELEVEN more homeruns from Schmidt, plus 2 extra triples per year! I think i'd make that trade off any day. Prob why Schmidt scored 17 more runs per year than Beltre too.

Mike Schmidt would give you MORE extra base hits over a 162 game season, more Rbi's, less outs (way better OBP), more runs, better base running/SB's, better glove. Schmidt is better in every aspect, except length of career.

[nyplayer33]

He likely cheated in other areas

[adila1401]

on pace, yes

[SteveKerrsJunk]

Naa. He's just a tiny shy guy who cheated.

[bodyman]

He was great when he knew what was coming
I'm guessing a lapse in production is coming now

[Mr KLC]

Since Jose Altuve debut in 2011, he has never struck out more than eight times in a span of 8 games in his entire career.

This season Altuve has 10 strikeouts in 8 games, breaking that streak.

[Sledge187]

Since Jose Altuve debut in 2011, he has never struck out more than eight times in a span of 8 games in his entire career.

This season Altuve has 10 strikeouts in 8 games, breaking that streak.

He looks completely different this season. I wonder if he is hurt. That said, typical Altuve he will be hitting .300 plus by game 20.

[Mr KLC]

He looks completely different this season. I wonder if he is hurt. That said, typical Altuve he will be hitting .300 plus by game 20.

Him, Springer, and Bregman have come out of the gate slowly. Need their offense to offset the starting pitching problem.

[nocturnal012]

I'm not shocked. It's hard to hit when you don't know what pitch is coming.

[Sledge187]

Him, Springer, and Bregman have come out of the gate slowly. Need their offense to offset the starting pitching problem.

Springer doesn't bother me because he is streaky. Altuve is really strange. He looks shook this season. I hope I'm wrong.