[MoneyLineDawg]

LeBron will never be on Jordan's level at any point in his career.

The comparisons are a slight to Thee GOAT.

Maybe not...Jordan was a killer

What about Kobe's?

[ChalkyDog]

Maybe not...Jordan was a killer

What about Kobe's?

IMO, that lies in a grey area just because of how similar Kobe's game is to Jordan's. Bryant emulated the GOAT. From mannerisms to moves.

Kobe is the most competitive and driven player I've seen in the league since MJ.

[MoneyLineDawg]

IMO, that lies in a grey area just because of how similar Kobe's game is to Jordan's. Bryant emulated the GOAT. From mannerisms to moves.

Kobe is the most competitive and driven player I've seen in the league since MJ.

Kobe isn't close to MJ or Lebron gimme a break

[The Giant]

Michael Jordan could've had the flu, cramps, a bad case of diarrhea on the court, and he would've still led his team to victory.

Amirite, Lebron haters???

[bruins35]

what would u rather buy a jordan shoe or i have cramps lebron shoe?

[Thor4140]

The sad part about this is that next year Lebron will throw down a big slam, espn will show it 50 times, and all these jackasses will completely forget how he failed again. If not for Allen he fails last year. Against Dallas he failed miserably. The guy is very good player in this era of no defense (plus 120 teams in the league to dilute it) but ya put a guy who can play some D on him and he turns average. It is not a coincidence that the refs fuked Leonard the one game and Lebron went off. Lebron has one big game and it was all because Leonard wasn't allowed to guard him. That is how u make a very good player into a great player. Just like that fraud Shaq and his 15 fouls a game. You want to see a total fraud go back and watch the Indy finals with the Lakers. Rik Smits got so royally fuked in that series he basically started laughing walking off the court after every phanton foul. All for Shaq to succeed because he had trouble scoring on Smits. Making Shaq an above average center into a super human force.

[The Kraken]

Are there ppl that think LBJ is better than MJ?

I'm a fan boi of Lebron and think he's a great player but not on MJ's level.

He's still putting in work though.

The Lakers gonna make a push to get rid of Kobe and get KD and LBJ. Ruh-roh raggy.

Sadly, if they all went to LA and this SA team is still playing like they can, SA would still win.

[upscope]

Hahahahahahahahahha



All u heard in Cleceland was LeBron had no help. Yet when he quit on his teammates vs the Celtics that last year they had an all-star point guard an all-star small forward an all-star power forward & an all-star center. They had the best bench in the league, the MVP of the league, the coach of the year, homecourt throughout. Third highest payroll in league. That was plenty enough to win 66 games & dominate & bitch the entire league all season long. Healthy odds on favorite to win it all. Going into the playoffs anybody who was anybody in the media was saying 'ok, no more excuses now. If you can't win with this set-UP then you deserve the criticism'

Year before vs Orlando they lost as a -800 series fav.

Bitch goes to Miami to get the "help" he needs. They put FOUR Hall of Famers & 3 team USA players on the court, entire starting five & bench taking pay cuts to bring in even more help & here we go again.....He doesn't have enough help

In Cleveland it was four all-stars in the starting line-UP. With Miami its four Hall of Famers. I guess LeBron nuthuggers won't be satisfied untill they surround him with the entire 1st team all-NBA team??

[bryant81]

So here's something I noticed about LeBron:
2010
LeBron quits against Boston multiple games, most notably in a PIVOTAL game 5 (series tied 2-2) when they got blown out by 32 at home. Ends with 15 points on 3-14 shooting (-22). Nice statline the next game but he checked out (knowing that was his last game as a Cavalier). Then he "decides" to go to Miami.
2011
This is where we truly saw on the grand stage that LeBron has issues in pressure moments. He choked in multiple games, most notably games 4-6. Had 8 points in game 4, choked in 4th quarters all series long (see below) where he averaged about 3 points per 4th quarter in the 6 game series. He scored 17 and 21 points in games 5 and 6, respectively, and averaged just 15.3ppg in the last 3 games of the series (lost all 3).

2012
Won championship. This was his year. 100% credit for this one.
2013
Won but got real lucky they didn't lose game 6 down 3-2 and down 5 with just 28.3 seconds left in the game after 2 terrible LeBron turnovers. Was tentative for most of first 6 games. They dared him to shoot and he wasn't confident. Diaw held him to 3-21 shooting in the series when he guarded him. Games 1-3 he was straight scared and clearly took a step back mentally, averaging just 16.7 ppg in the first 3 games. Game 4 Wade carried them but LeBron ended up scoring like 9 points in the last couple minutes of garbage time to pad his stats and end up with more points than Wade. Game 5 he goes 8-22 and lost. Game 6 was pretty bad for most of game (until first half of 4th) and would've ended the series with 2 terrible turnovers and elimination. It was going to be the same story all over again for LeBron. But of course, he got real lucky that Ray Allen saved his a**. He went off in game 7 and all of a sudden we're hearing he's GOAT, and something about Mount Rushmore lol.
2014
Played well first 2 games, showed up for 3 quarters total during games 3-5. Game 3 he shows up for first quarter for 14 points, ends with 22 points with 7 turnovers (-21). All while getting completely owned on defense. Game 4 doesn't show up first half with only 9 points and down 19 (-15) then he scores a meaningless 19 in the 3rd to pad his stats and ends with 28 and 8. Game 5 comes out strong in first quarter had 17-6-1 only 14-4-4 rest of game and couldn't stop the bleeding in the 2nd quarter when Heat as a team scored 11 points and he had just 3.
End result: if Spurs close out game 6 last year as they should've, we're looking at LeBron quitting/choking in multiple games in a series (and these are PIVOTAL games) in 4 of the last 5 years! Including 3 of the last 4 Finals. If the East wasn't so weak, they wouldn't have made the Finals 4 straight years. Have they faced even 1 true contender in the East during the last 4 seasons? I don't believe so.

[upscope]

Lebron & the Cheat made their own bed. The mistake was trying to bring in even more star power help with Bosh. LeBron/Wade was enough @ the top, they should have taken Bosh's max deal & spread it over 2 or three super solid guys?? Bosh has just basically watched LeBron/Wade dominate the action for four years anyhow. Two superstars & 3 solid pieces is better than 3 superstars & a bunch of sh#t.

[spargament]

not a LeBron fan but it's so annoying watching threads like this, and just how most people react to him in general. it's ridiculous. the manipulation and presentation of information required to make Lebron look bad is hilarious.

Hahahahahahahahahha



All u heard in Cleceland was LeBron had no help. Yet when he quit on his teammates vs the Celtics that last year they had an all-star point guard an all-star small forward an all-star power forward & an all-star center {Besides Lebron, who there was a legitimate All-Star without his help}. They had the best bench in the league {Really?} , the MVP of the league, the coach of the year {WHO CONTINUES TO PROVE HIS INCOMPETENCY AS A HEAD COACH}, homecourt throughout. Third highest payroll in league. That was plenty enough to win 66 games & dominate & bitch the entire league all season long. Healthy odds on favorite to win it all {Healthy? What does that mean? That the team as was constructed hadn't seen a Finals and was REALLY young?}. Going into the playoffs anybody who was anybody in the media was saying 'ok, no more excuses now. If you can't win with this set-UP then you deserve the criticism' {I'm so glad the media laces up their sneakers and plays the games}

Year before vs Orlando they lost as a -800 series fav.{It's totally Lebron's fault that Dwight Howard created every issue in that series, Jordan probably woulda threw some stilts on and covered Dwight on the block}

Bitch goes to Miami to get the "help" he needs. They put FOUR Hall of Famers & 3 team USA players on the court, entire starting five & bench taking pay cuts to bring in even more help & here we go again.....He doesn't have enough help
{I forgot that Jordan played with terribly constructed rosters with no HOF/All-Stars/Team USA players...I assume that Chris Paul also is mediocre at best because of his inability to even get TO an NBA Finals despite playing on loaded teams.}

In Cleveland it was four all-stars in the starting line-UP. With Miami its four Hall of Famers. I guess LeBron nuthuggers won't be satisfied untill they surround him with the entire 1st team all-NBA team??

I'm the furthest thing from a Lebron nuthugger...no, wait, y'all are the furthest thing from Lebron nuthuggers. You're the only thing worse. LeBron nuthaters.

[upscope]

LeBron James 2009 all star....fact
Shaq 2009 all star....fact
Mo Williams 2009 all star....fact
A. Jamison 2008 all-star....fact

-Yes Their bench was recognized all season as one of the strongest & deepest in the league....fact
-COY, incompetent or not he was named COY....fact
-Healthy meaning they were by far clear cut fav according to sport book odds
-The media had given them passes for failure every yr UP to this point. The media consensus this time around was the team had all the pieces & there were no more passes. Win or be criticized & scrutinized for failure

-Howard dominating is just another typical LeBron nuthugger excuse for losing.
-Jordan had all-stars & HOF'ers as well. Point is the Jordan nuthuggers didn't scream "NEED MORE HELP" every time they lost.....Oh that's right THEY NEVER LOST!!

Who said C. Paul was mediocre, or Lebron mediocre for that matter?? Both are GREAT players. Point is every single yr the LeBron nuthuggers use the same wore out tired excuse "NEED MORE HELP" Four all-stars wasn't enough help so lets try 4 HOF'ers & 3/5th's of Team USA instead. WTF do you LeBron nuthuggers want?? A couple more HOF'ers & the entire starting 5 of Team USA, would that be enough help??

NEED MORE HELP!!

[jtoler]

.

Strange stats for a 4 time MVP winner. He's still getting better IMO I think we may still see a better LeBron in the future.

[upscope]

Strange stats for a 4 time MVP winner. He's still getting better IMO I think we may still see a better LeBron in the future.

What's even stranger is how he's been littered with all-stars & HOF'ers surrounding him yr after yr yet when he loses it's not his fault for playing like sh#t in the 4th??
Instead it's "he's better then Jordan he just NEEDS MORE HELP!!

[dlunc3]

What's even stranger is how he's been littered with all-stars & HOF'ers surrounding him yr after yr yet when he loses it's not his fault for playing like sh#t in the 4th??
Instead it's "he's better then Jordan he just NEEDS MORE HELP!!

Would Jordan have one with this team? Just need a 1 word answer. Yes or No?

[Dr Nostron]

Jordan's Bulls never beat (nor had to play) a team as good as this Spurs team.

or that Celtics team

[Seaweed]

Would the Heat make the playoffs if Lebron was off the team?

[Kermit]

Would the Heat make the playoffs if Lebron was off the team?

I think they would be a .500 team.

[Thor4140]

Would Jordan have one with this team? Just need a 1 word answer. Yes or No?

PIppen would have guarded Parker and shut him down just like he did against Magic. Rodman would have created rebounds and Jordan would smoke Leonard. Lets not forget the BUlls knew how to play defense. Not like this Miami team of stars and indiviual players.

[Thor4140]

Hahahahahahahahahha



All u heard in Cleceland was LeBron had no help. Yet when he quit on his teammates vs the Celtics that last year they had an all-star point guard an all-star small forward an all-star power forward & an all-star center. They had the best bench in the league, the MVP of the league, the coach of the year, homecourt throughout. Third highest payroll in league. That was plenty enough to win 66 games & dominate & bitch the entire league all season long. Healthy odds on favorite to win it all. Going into the playoffs anybody who was anybody in the media was saying 'ok, no more excuses now. If you can't win with this set-UP then you deserve the criticism'

Year before vs Orlando they lost as a -800 series fav.

Bitch goes to Miami to get the "help" he needs. They put FOUR Hall of Famers & 3 team USA players on the court, entire starting five & bench taking pay cuts to bring in even more help & here we go again.....He doesn't have enough help

In Cleveland it was four all-stars in the starting line-UP. With Miami its four Hall of Famers. I guess LeBron nuthuggers won't be satisfied untill they surround him with the entire 1st team all-NBA team??

upscope gets it. About time another guy notice how the bullshit line "Lebron took a team of misfits in Cleveland to the finals" is just that bullshit. With these Lebron nuthuggers the media can shape their minds anyway they want.

[upscope]

upscope gets it. About time another guy notice how the bullshit line "Lebron took a team of misfits in Cleveland to the finals" is just that bullshit. With these Lebron nuthuggers the media can shape their minds anyway they want.

The first team he took to the Finals was a little weak but the East that yr was the biggest joke it's ever been in the history of the NBA & once they met a real team in the Finals they got SWEPT!!
Those next two team though that fizzled out to Orlando & Bos were fuggin' loaded & it's a strait cop out & leBron nuthugger excuse to use the old & tired NEED MORE HELP excuse.

[upscope]

Would Jordan have one with this team? Just need a 1 word answer. Yes or No?

Vs this Spurs team?? I can honestly say don't know. The Spurs were bad azz no doubt. But he did beat every team & combination that was put in front of him. However, there is zero doubt in my mind Jordan would have won with the Cle teams that lost to Orl & then Bos & he 100% would have won vs Dal.

The point is stop with the puzzy NEED MORE HELP excuse every time he loses. He had four all-stars in Cle & the excuse was NEED MORE help so they went ahead & gave him 4 HOF'ers & every single ring chaser for the minimum on the market & that got him 2 out of 4 rings which easily & should have been 1 out of 4. That excuse doesn't fly no more. Just cause you're the best player in the league that doesn't mean they have to load your team UP with every all-star available. At some point in time the burden of blame needs to go squarely on the shoulders of the leader like it does when every other superstar loses. But with LeBron it will always be the same old tired NEED MORE HELP excuse. How many fukkin' all-stars & HOF'ers are you supposed to give the guy??

It's plain & simple & undebatable Jordan > LeBron

[upscope]

Would the Heat make the playoffs if Lebron was off the team?

In the weak as East 100% guarantee. Probably a 2 seed.

[upscope]

Miami made their own bed. Now they have to sleep in it. they desperately wanted the 3 superstars that left them with no $$ to spend. Don't use the NEED MORE HELP excuse. Use the poor construction of a team excuse then. Maybe if the spread Bosh's salary around to 2-3 guys they would havs HAD MORE HELP . Every team has x amount of $$ to spend. Miami chose to throw it all @ 3 guys. SA spreads it around. Other teams spread it around. Live by sword die by the sword right?? If LeBron NEEDS MORE HELP then Mia needs to let Bosh & Wade go & spend their 35M on five 7M players

NEED MORE HELP

[Mac4Lyfe]

aRE YOU FUKKIN KIDDING ME? The NBA top to bottom was much better than this shit show we see today. The East had powerhouse teams in Boston, Detroit, NY Knicks, Cleveland (Mark Price, Brad Dougherty, Hot Rod Williams, Larry Nance, Ron Harper), Indiana, etc. Even Orlando back in those days would thrash this Heat team of today.

The East has been absolute shit the last decade. Hibbert wouldn't even make the team on any of those teams I just mentioned. Go look it up. The West is okay but none of them could compete with the Lakers, Jazz, Portland, Kings, Rockets, etc., back then. This Spurs team is a good team but this is far from the best Spurs team. Do you really think this team could handle the Rockets with Olajuwon, Drexler, Kenny Smith? Or the Magic with Shaq, Penny Hardaway, Dennis Scott, Horace Grant? Damn some of you kids need to study videos.

Today's NBA is either jack a 3 or try and dunk. Horrible mid range games by most players, piss poor defenses, poor free throw shooting, and very, very bad basketball IQ. I think players today are better athletes overall but they are very raw and lack overall basketball talent. Hell most of these players can't even dribble the ball for shit sake.

Let me tell you how bad it is today. I played HS basketball in the 80's, was good enough to get scholarship offers but focused on football instead. Played D1 football and almost made it to the NFL. I have played against upcoming HS, college and NBA players the last 3 decades. I can keep up with the young crop of players just as much today. I'm getting older but the players aren't getting much better. They are much worst. Most lack drive, focus, and IQ. Just about all of the young guys crumble with the least bit of contact and are usually one dimensional. Most are very athletic but when it comes to basketball skills, very, very raw. The rules have changed a lot, you can't hand check and can't be as physical but I think it's made kids soft. Plus they are all about me versus team, which was refreshing to see the Spurs go old school.

QUOTE=Dr Nostron;22075303]Jordan's Bulls never beat (nor had to play) a team as good as this Spurs team.

or that Celtics team[/QUOTE]

[bigtymer56]

Is anybody in here actually arguing that Lebron is better than Jordan?

[Thor4140]

Is anybody in here actually arguing that Lebron is better than Jordan?

i think they have been finally run off. Problem is they will be back in full force when he makes his next dunk.

[raiders72001]

Favorite Jordan pass

[The Kraken]

His only pass

Ever

[bruins35]

His only pass

Ever

if i was jordan i wouldnt pass the ball

[eidolon]

Jordan 6-0 Finals
LeBron 2-3 Finals

That's all you need to know

"This is all you need to know"

Players that are almost as good or just as good as Jordan(championships):
Tim Duncan(5)
Derek Fisher(5)
Kobe Bryant(5)
Steve Kerr(5)
Ron Harper(5)
Dennis Rodman(5)
Michael Cooper(5)
Magic Johnson(5)
Don Nelson(5)
Larry Siegfeld(5)
Slater Martin(5)
Jim Pollard(5)
George Mikan(5)
Scottie Pippen(6)
Kareem Abdul Jabbar(6)
Bob Cousy(6)

Players that are better than Jordan:
Robert Horry(7)
Frank Ramsey(7)
Jim Loscutoff(7)
John Havlicek(8)
Tom "Satch" Sanders(8)
K. C. Jones(8)
Tom Heinsohn(8)
Sam Jones(10)

and the player that is almost twice as good as Jordan:
Bill Russell(11)

[Walulu]

The reality is people trying to compare are doing so without a complete resume. Lebron has several years left. There is a lot of the story which hasn't been written. Jordan's story is over and fortunately I got to see the whole thing. I will also get to see Lebron's story. When it's over then we can sit back, look at the complete resume and see where things stand.

[jsmithj88]

doesnt matter if lebron has 4 HOF teammates if they dont show up

[Eddy Munny]

doesnt matter if lebron has 4 HOF teammates if they dont show up

I'm confused as to how Lebron is playing with 4 HOF'ers by his side.

Any reasonable person knows this argument is invalid.

First of all, since basketball players are humans (yes even HOF'ers), it means they have a shelf life.

The 2014 versions of Dwyane Wade and Ray Allen are future HOF'ers in name only, not level of play on the court. Ray Allen in his prime was a completely different player than he is now. While still a good perimeter shooter, he no longer has the quick, slashing to the rim element to his game, and has become a liability defensively.

Dwyane Wade's prime may seem like it was not that long ago, but his knees are shot and he's been aging in dog years. If someone had awoken from a 10 year coma and viewed these past Finals with a fresh set of eyes, they would not assume they were watching a HOF two guard play for the Heat. More realistically, they probably would ask "Who's that bum wearing #3? Why is he on the court?"

Chris Bosh isn't even necessarily a HOF'er at any point in his career. He has been an All Star, but Hall of Fame? That's a pretty bold conclusion. He has a lot more to prove as a player in the NBA if he ever expects to make it to Springfield. Someone needs to tell Bosh that he is seven friggin feet tall. Apparently he's a guard trapped in a center's body. He'd rather jack up jumpers from behind the arc, than mix it up with the big uglies in the paint. He did nothing to provide any presence in the middle of the Heat defense and too often was invisible altogether.

As to this fourth and final mystery HOF'er that "upscope" is referring to, I'd like to know who that is.... I hope to god he's not referring to Rashard Lewis. It's called "Hall of Fame," not "Hall of Guys that Were Kinda Good Many Years and Several Teams Ago." Lewis's spot in the Heat starting lineup is a question mark, much less the HOF.

So while I can't tell all you Lebron haters how to feel towards the man, I can at least ask that you bring some objectivity to the table in your assessment of him. In other words, pull your heads out of your asses. James got marginal help from his teammates against the Spurs. He was not surrounded by four HOF'ers.

You wanna talk about help? Look no further than Tim Duncan... past his prime, but collects his fifth ring anyways, largely on the backs of his teammates and HOF coach. I'm not ripping Duncan at all, just pointing out the fact that basketball was, is, and always will be a team game. I would still take Lebron over Duncan in his prime. If the two players traded teams before the Finals, would Duncan have guided the Heat and his "four HOF teammates" to a title? Please, don't make me laugh.

[Walulu]

Right on the Munny

I'm confused as to how Lebron is playing with 4 HOF'ers by his side.

Any reasonable person knows this argument is invalid.

First of all, since basketball players are humans (yes even HOF'ers), it means they have a shelf life.

The 2014 versions of Dwyane Wade and Ray Allen are future HOF'ers in name only, not level of play on the court. Ray Allen in his prime was a completely different player than he is now. While still a good perimeter shooter, he no longer has the quick, slashing to the rim element to his game, and has become a liability defensively.

Dwyane Wade's prime may seem like it was not that long ago, but his knees are shot and he's been aging in dog years. If someone had awoken from a 10 year coma and viewed these past Finals with a fresh set of eyes, they would not assume they were watching a HOF two guard play for the Heat. More realistically, they probably would ask "Who's that bum wearing #3? Why is he on the court?"

Chris Bosh isn't even necessarily a HOF'er at any point in his career. He has been an All Star, but Hall of Fame? That's a pretty bold conclusion. He has a lot more to prove as a player in the NBA if he ever expects to make it to Springfield. Someone needs to tell Bosh that he is seven friggin feet tall. Apparently he's a guard trapped in a center's body. He'd rather jack up jumpers from behind the arc, than mix it up with the big uglies in the paint. He did nothing to provide any presence in the middle of the Heat defense and too often was invisible altogether.

As to this fourth and final mystery HOF'er that "upscope" is referring to, I'd like to know who that is.... I hope to god he's not referring to Rashard Lewis. It's called "Hall of Fame," not "Hall of Guys that Were Kinda Good Many Years and Several Teams Ago." Lewis's spot in the Heat starting lineup is a question mark, much less the HOF.

So while I can't tell all you Lebron haters how to feel towards the man, I can at least ask that you bring some objectivity to the table in your assessment of him. In other words, pull your heads out of your asses. James got marginal help from his teammates against the Spurs. He was not surrounded by four HOF'ers.

You wanna talk about help? Look no further than Tim Duncan... past his prime, but collects his fifth ring anyways, largely on the backs of his teammates and HOF coach. I'm not ripping Duncan at all, just pointing out the fact that basketball was, is, and always will be a team game. I would still take Lebron over Duncan in his prime. If the two players traded teams before the Finals, would Duncan have guided the Heat and his "four HOF teammates" to a title? Please, don't make me laugh.